For those of you who have never seen 3k.Was able find this picture of him.Apparently he is also a model
for some big time international Asshat company.
What NY Giants fans are saying ...before the game
- Thread starter Prime Time
- Start date
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For those of you who have never seen 3k.Was able find this picture of him.Apparently he is also a model
for some big time international Asshat company.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #22
http://boards.giants.com/showthread.php?75970-Donald-or-OBJ
Donald or OBJ
You are the Giants GM. Rams GM calls you and offers you Donald for OBJ straight up.
Do you accept? I say yes.
1. Donald is the best defensive player in football. OBJ is not even the best player at his position.
2. A dominant pass-rushing DT is both harder to find and more impactful to winning than a great WR. The only way to stop a great QB is to push the pocket in his face.
3. Donald is a team player; OBJ is a selfish me-first player.
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What's the Rams record the last few years?? Since we are so quick to say the Giants are 6-10 with Odell on the team then how come the best defensive player haven't brought the Rams to the playoffs?
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Rams don't have a QB.
The Giants do.
THAT'S the difference.
---------
Yes times 10, simply because Donald doesn't need any other player to have an impact on the game. OBJ needs good pass protection, a good QB, and decent WR's around him also help but aren't mandatory for his success.
Aaron Donald, need's Aaron Donald to make plays, though he is playing on a good line which makes a huge difference in the amount of plays he makes.
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Agreed.
Donald > OBJ.
If u disagree u are either a homer or u just don't know football.
---------
Teams double him all the time and he still consistently disrupts the offense by wrecking interior OLs.
---------
Star WRs don't win Super Bowls.
Dominant DL win SBs.
-------
Agreed so why haven't the Rams done it then?? Also didn't Rice and Marvin Harrison win the Superbowl?? Sometimes you need a combination of both to win it all but yes defense still wins championships.
Odell is not your typical star receiver.
--------
Which player is more valuable to a team is up for debate, and another question entirely. Championships are won with defense, so goes the age-old adage, but I've yet to see a Lombardi trophy hoisted without points being scored by the offense.
The point being, OBJ can put 6 on the board from any spot on the field and he routinely makes catches that other WRs don't make.
I watched Aaron Donald's highlights and that was the pick I wanted. He looked like a football god at Pitt. I was only mildly disappointed when we didn’t draft Donald (I say that now) because I heard a few NFL Draft pundits whose opinions I respected say that OBJ may be the best WR in the draft. It wasn't the consensus, but everyone knew the kid had talent.
They are both once in a life time players. IMO if you see those 2 in the same draft. I've thought about this over and over. The GM genius move would have been to give away next year’s draft to get both. Aaron Donald was the can't miss player of the two. He was too dominant to just bust in the NFL IMO. They talked about his size, but I remember Warren Sapp and they said the same thing about him. Donald is the best defensive player in the league after JJ Watt, and the best interior linemen bar none.
Looking at our team now we need both. I can't imagine this offense without OBJ the past 2 years. Yet looking at our lethargic pass rush, it's obvious Donald would do wonders for us.
You draft OBJ and Donald in the same draft and Reese would never had any job pressure like he's had in the past couple of years.
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I knew this type of thread would pop up. Only a ****ing fool would take Donald over OBJ. Lol.
---------
I'm sorry but a WR who averages 100 yds a game a td every two games will always be more valuable than a dt no matter how many sacks he can get or how many pressures or how many tackles. His value is limited to the defensive line. The WR has the entire offensive field to do damage especially one like OBJ. Idiots. Idiots. I wish we wouldn't have idiot fans but we have too many.
----------
U don't understand football.
LOL @ u belittling the DT position.
Especially a PASS RUSHING DT.
Ridiculous
----------
No way. If knowing what I know now I would have chosen Donald over OBJ and knew we passed on OBJ I would be *****ing right there with all the other Reese haters and their *****ing would be exponetially worse if that is possible. I guarantee you that barring injury OBJ has the longer and more impactful career. Its just no comparison.
Would you rather have Brian Quick or Kenny Britt with Aaron Donald or OBJ and Snacks and Wilkerson? That's what you should be asking yourself. I would also like you to ask Rams fans worldwide who they would rather fave. I'm just besides myself with the logic in here.
Amazing. Uncanny even. Einstein was right about the infinite nature of human stupidity he is proven right on these boards every single second. I don't know why I keep doing this to myself.
----------
Odell Beckham jr. Is the BEST wide receiver EVER...again.. EVER... through his first 34 games in the NFL. Argue all you want who is number one right now.. I'll take the guy that is projected to shatter every record that exists at his position. If you can't see how much of an impact he has in both production and opposing game planning.. Well you're just a hater.
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I love Odell, but i would have chosen Donald, Defense still wins championships, i rather have a great defense over high powered offense and a crappy defense, Broncos won a SB with noodle arm Peyton Manning..
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With no QB too.
Put Eli on the Rams during that time period, then put Austin Davis/Shaun Hill/Keenum on the Giants....and imagine how much more the W-L disparity would be.
---------
And Donald is not the whole dline either. He clearly still needs help because they have never been a top 10 defense since he's been in the league.
---------
But u do not need great WRs
Did the 2012 Ravens have star WRs?
Did the 2013 Seahawks have star WRs?
Did the 2014 Pats have star WRs?
----------
If I'm offered that trade I'd decline. Look Donald might be viewed as the better player, however I don't think his addition makes us that much better as a team. Now u take OBJ off the team and I think we are worse. Donald might make some great plays for us and improve our Defense...but without OBJ we aren't scoring much.
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Donald and Gurley, then we have a starting point for negotiation.
-----------
I wouldn't trade Odell for the entire Rams team.
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Donald is good but the main reason why he looks so dominant is the other first round picks and dominant defensive lineman on the Rams d-line.
----------
Donald. Defenses win championships. Not WRs.
As a defensive minded coach, id take a top 5 defense over a top 5 offense any day of the week. This isnt a knock on OBJ.
Donald has been viewed as one of the best players in the league in any position. He is a generational talent that happens to also play on the side of the ball that wins championships.
Sorry but this isnt even close imo. Again, nothing against Beck.
---------
Casual fans will always pick a flashy WR. Students of the game know better and will always pick a legendary defensive line type of player.
News flash, the last 5 superbowls were won directly by defenses. Not one of those teams had a top 5 wr on the team.
Donald or OBJ
You are the Giants GM. Rams GM calls you and offers you Donald for OBJ straight up.
Do you accept? I say yes.
1. Donald is the best defensive player in football. OBJ is not even the best player at his position.
2. A dominant pass-rushing DT is both harder to find and more impactful to winning than a great WR. The only way to stop a great QB is to push the pocket in his face.
3. Donald is a team player; OBJ is a selfish me-first player.
----------
What's the Rams record the last few years?? Since we are so quick to say the Giants are 6-10 with Odell on the team then how come the best defensive player haven't brought the Rams to the playoffs?
---------
Rams don't have a QB.
The Giants do.
THAT'S the difference.
---------
Yes times 10, simply because Donald doesn't need any other player to have an impact on the game. OBJ needs good pass protection, a good QB, and decent WR's around him also help but aren't mandatory for his success.
Aaron Donald, need's Aaron Donald to make plays, though he is playing on a good line which makes a huge difference in the amount of plays he makes.
---------
Agreed.
Donald > OBJ.
If u disagree u are either a homer or u just don't know football.
---------
Teams double him all the time and he still consistently disrupts the offense by wrecking interior OLs.
---------
Star WRs don't win Super Bowls.
Dominant DL win SBs.
-------
Agreed so why haven't the Rams done it then?? Also didn't Rice and Marvin Harrison win the Superbowl?? Sometimes you need a combination of both to win it all but yes defense still wins championships.
Odell is not your typical star receiver.
--------
Which player is more valuable to a team is up for debate, and another question entirely. Championships are won with defense, so goes the age-old adage, but I've yet to see a Lombardi trophy hoisted without points being scored by the offense.
The point being, OBJ can put 6 on the board from any spot on the field and he routinely makes catches that other WRs don't make.
I watched Aaron Donald's highlights and that was the pick I wanted. He looked like a football god at Pitt. I was only mildly disappointed when we didn’t draft Donald (I say that now) because I heard a few NFL Draft pundits whose opinions I respected say that OBJ may be the best WR in the draft. It wasn't the consensus, but everyone knew the kid had talent.
They are both once in a life time players. IMO if you see those 2 in the same draft. I've thought about this over and over. The GM genius move would have been to give away next year’s draft to get both. Aaron Donald was the can't miss player of the two. He was too dominant to just bust in the NFL IMO. They talked about his size, but I remember Warren Sapp and they said the same thing about him. Donald is the best defensive player in the league after JJ Watt, and the best interior linemen bar none.
Looking at our team now we need both. I can't imagine this offense without OBJ the past 2 years. Yet looking at our lethargic pass rush, it's obvious Donald would do wonders for us.
You draft OBJ and Donald in the same draft and Reese would never had any job pressure like he's had in the past couple of years.
---------
I knew this type of thread would pop up. Only a ****ing fool would take Donald over OBJ. Lol.
---------
I'm sorry but a WR who averages 100 yds a game a td every two games will always be more valuable than a dt no matter how many sacks he can get or how many pressures or how many tackles. His value is limited to the defensive line. The WR has the entire offensive field to do damage especially one like OBJ. Idiots. Idiots. I wish we wouldn't have idiot fans but we have too many.
----------
U don't understand football.
LOL @ u belittling the DT position.
Especially a PASS RUSHING DT.
Ridiculous
----------
No way. If knowing what I know now I would have chosen Donald over OBJ and knew we passed on OBJ I would be *****ing right there with all the other Reese haters and their *****ing would be exponetially worse if that is possible. I guarantee you that barring injury OBJ has the longer and more impactful career. Its just no comparison.
Would you rather have Brian Quick or Kenny Britt with Aaron Donald or OBJ and Snacks and Wilkerson? That's what you should be asking yourself. I would also like you to ask Rams fans worldwide who they would rather fave. I'm just besides myself with the logic in here.
Amazing. Uncanny even. Einstein was right about the infinite nature of human stupidity he is proven right on these boards every single second. I don't know why I keep doing this to myself.
----------
Odell Beckham jr. Is the BEST wide receiver EVER...again.. EVER... through his first 34 games in the NFL. Argue all you want who is number one right now.. I'll take the guy that is projected to shatter every record that exists at his position. If you can't see how much of an impact he has in both production and opposing game planning.. Well you're just a hater.
----------
I love Odell, but i would have chosen Donald, Defense still wins championships, i rather have a great defense over high powered offense and a crappy defense, Broncos won a SB with noodle arm Peyton Manning..
----------
With no QB too.
Put Eli on the Rams during that time period, then put Austin Davis/Shaun Hill/Keenum on the Giants....and imagine how much more the W-L disparity would be.
---------
And Donald is not the whole dline either. He clearly still needs help because they have never been a top 10 defense since he's been in the league.
---------
But u do not need great WRs
Did the 2012 Ravens have star WRs?
Did the 2013 Seahawks have star WRs?
Did the 2014 Pats have star WRs?
----------
If I'm offered that trade I'd decline. Look Donald might be viewed as the better player, however I don't think his addition makes us that much better as a team. Now u take OBJ off the team and I think we are worse. Donald might make some great plays for us and improve our Defense...but without OBJ we aren't scoring much.
----------
Donald and Gurley, then we have a starting point for negotiation.
-----------
I wouldn't trade Odell for the entire Rams team.
----------
Donald is good but the main reason why he looks so dominant is the other first round picks and dominant defensive lineman on the Rams d-line.
----------
Donald. Defenses win championships. Not WRs.
As a defensive minded coach, id take a top 5 defense over a top 5 offense any day of the week. This isnt a knock on OBJ.
Donald has been viewed as one of the best players in the league in any position. He is a generational talent that happens to also play on the side of the ball that wins championships.
Sorry but this isnt even close imo. Again, nothing against Beck.
---------
Casual fans will always pick a flashy WR. Students of the game know better and will always pick a legendary defensive line type of player.
News flash, the last 5 superbowls were won directly by defenses. Not one of those teams had a top 5 wr on the team.
Nah, Ogletree, Hayes and Sims were fined too. Ogletree for that late hit and Hayes threw a punch.
Wish I could share that optimism. But a Manning/Beckham tandem against a depleted Rams defense does not give me confidence. Keenum had a career day last week. The Rams scored 28. And we still lost because of the depleted defense. Hard to feel good with that.
Rams can get inside Beckham's head. They can't allow him to get inside theirs like what happened in 2014.
OBJ "spun the ball" after his first touchdown and after that he was a marked man. Rather than putting it behind them and focusing on the game the Rams players groused about it all day and focused on "teaching him respect" by hitting him late. EJ Gaines season was ended because McDonald launched at Beckham in a blindside attempt. Beckham eats the secondary alive and the Giants win anyway.
It was the same thing with Golden Tate. Tate mocks JJ and McLeod for running their mouths and not backing it up on the way to a game winning 80 yard TD on Monday Night. Rams players respond the next time they see him by plowing him under in his first punt return attempt. Again, their focus is on teaching him respect by hitting him. Tate winds up with more catches and yards than any player on either side and the Seahawks win again.
Rams have to maintain their composure this time and if if they don't like what OBJ does after scoring, then stop him from scoring.
OBJ "spun the ball" after his first touchdown and after that he was a marked man. Rather than putting it behind them and focusing on the game the Rams players groused about it all day and focused on "teaching him respect" by hitting him late. EJ Gaines season was ended because McDonald launched at Beckham in a blindside attempt. Beckham eats the secondary alive and the Giants win anyway.
It was the same thing with Golden Tate. Tate mocks JJ and McLeod for running their mouths and not backing it up on the way to a game winning 80 yard TD on Monday Night. Rams players respond the next time they see him by plowing him under in his first punt return attempt. Again, their focus is on teaching him respect by hitting him. Tate winds up with more catches and yards than any player on either side and the Seahawks win again.
Rams have to maintain their composure this time and if if they don't like what OBJ does after scoring, then stop him from scoring.
NateDawg122
Pro Bowler
I think a lot of these Giants fans underestimate Ogletree. They make him sound like a below-average linebacker. He's not Luke Kuechley but he's not someone I'd take lightly if I were them. The guy makes plays and can lay the boom when he wants to.
After reading this^ I have to say I was wrong! There is some smart people that are Giant Fans!
That's what gets on my nerve about Giant fans calling our Horns "dirty." They had better hope Odell doesn't become the creme in between a TJ Mac-Barron 'sandwich,' with our two hard-hitting safeties blasting him from two different directions.
12intheBox
Legend
I think these Giant fans are underestimating a lot of things. They assume they can run on our Horns but failed to note that The Mighty One, The Incredible Brock, and Hayes have been for the most part MIA over the last few weeks. Brockers is our biggest rush defense stabilizer, consistently sucking multiple blockers to ensure easier 1-on-1 matchups for his line mates. Aaron is disruptive enough to command double teaming constantly. With Aaron & The Brock together, 'Tree is freed up to run unabated to the rock like a heat seeking missile.
I hope Case has another good game because I want the pressure on Todd to ease up enough for him to go on a long overdue tear. Once the Express! starts chugging in earnest, the rest of our offense automatically falls in place.
interesting stuff.....
we need to keep getting better on defense....earn our respect...
we need to keep getting better on defense....earn our respect...
Well, Rams are in a perfect place then...ST Louis is a great sports town...and will support a team winning or losing...LA...if any form of losing continues...with no built up loyalty...will not pony up the cash or time to go to games...too much traffic, too much to do...win a few playoff games first...losing at home...no postseason appearances...no one will attend games but opponents fans...
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #33
New York Giants vs LA Rams: Twickenham makes room for NFL's gridiron for first time as capacity is cut
KEN ELLIOTT
http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/oth...r-first-time-as-capacity-is-cut-a3375136.html
Moving the goalposts: Twickenham gets ready to host the Giants vs Rams game Dave Shopland/NFL UK
Unless you count a charity cricket match 100 years ago, Twickenham opens its gates to a new sport for the first time since 1909 when the inaugural rugby match was contested there between Harlequins and Richmond.
American football NFL-style comes to town on Sunday when the Los Angeles Rams lock horns with the New York Giants, in what is week seven of the regular season Stateside.
The Rams, who left St Louis in the close season and relocated to their former home in LA, now find themselves the ‘home’ team in London for this fixture in the 2016 NFL International Series.
It is the first time a game has ventured away from its usual venue, Wembley Stadium, and it is a new venture for the RFU and the home of England rugby. Twickenham will host two more games as part of a three-year deal.
As Wembley adapts itself to gridiron, so too has Twickenham, with some significant alterations to accommodate all the teams bring with them, on top of the 46 players per side who get suited up for the game.
An RFU spokesperson said: “Due to the larger squads and staff numbers compared to a usual rugby fixture, a number of changes have been made to the team areas — changing rooms and tunnel. The Rams coaches will take up the England changing room and will use the Twickenham gym as a locker room — giving the team more space behind the scenes.
“For the away side changing room for the Giants we have knocked through into the England Rugby Internationals Club room to create a larger locker room for players and the coaching team. The coaches’ boxes will be installed on level six of the stadium, rather than above the tunnel where they are located for rugby fixtures.”
The capacity at the stadium is 82,000 for rugby but will be cut to 75,000 on Sunday owing to the sheer number of players and staff along the sidelines during an NFL game, which would mean spectators would not be able to see over them in the rows at the front.The usual disabled seats have also been moved to viewing platforms in the North and South stands to ensure good sight lines.
One of the concerns of soccer fans was the potential damage to the Wembley playing surface caused by an NFL game in the early years. The RFU have no such fears.
“Our pitch here at Twickenham is a DESSO grassmaster, so a composition of grass and manmade fibres,” said the spokesperson.
“We are used to hosting multiple events here, including staging 10 matches in last year’s Rugby World Cup and five in the upcoming Old Mutual Wealth Series for our men’s and women’s teams so the pitch is fully prepared for Sunday.
“It will be fully washed and cut out one week after the game and our next fixture is the England v South Africa rugby match in the Old Mutual Wealth Series on November 12.”
So the stage is set for the Rams, who have a 3-3 record, to face the Giants, also on 3-3 after six weeks. Keep an eye on Giants wide receiver Odell Beckham Jnr, a talented and high-profile player, particularly ‘visible’ when he celebrates a touchdown.
http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/oth...diction-tickets-tv-coverage-and-a3376381.html
New York Giants vs LA Rams NFL International Series preview: Prediction, tickets, TV coverage and betting odds
JAMES BENGE
Twickenham will host its first gridiron contest on Sunday, with the Los Angeles Rams the ‘home’ team against the New York Giants, meaning London’s NFL fanatics will get the chance to see perhaps the most exciting American footballer on the planet, Odell Beckham Jr.
The Giants wide receiver is one of a host of stars who could light up South-West London, including Offensive Rookie of the Year Todd Gurley and two-time Super Bowl-winning quarterback Eli Manning.
Both the Rams and the Giants enter Sunday’s match with identical 3-3 records and will have a week off after this week’s clash. The winner at Twickenham could enjoy a crucial fillip in the chase for a playoff spot whilst defeat would be a tough blow for either side’s ambitions.
The Rams will ‘host’ the Giants at Twickenham on Sunday October 23. Kick-off is at 2:30pm UK time.
BBC Two will have live coverage of the match, starting at 2pm.
ONE TO WATCH
Wide receiver Beckham Jr has become one of the NFL’s most high-profile players since his 2014 rookie year and became the fastest player to reach 200 receptions in the league’s history, doing so in only 30 games during a week 3 game against the Redskins.
Beckham Jr comes into the match in fine form after a career-best 222 yards and two touchdowns in a 27-23 win over the Baltimore Ravens.
The Giants No.13 has also courted controversy for his actions on and off the field and received his fourth fine of the season for removing his helmet in the Ravens win. Whether he is on the winning side or not expect all eyes to be on Beckham Jr at Twickenham.
BETTING ODDS (via 888 Sport)
Los Angeles Rams to win: 27/25
New York Giants to win: 39/50
KEN ELLIOTT
http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/oth...r-first-time-as-capacity-is-cut-a3375136.html
Moving the goalposts: Twickenham gets ready to host the Giants vs Rams game Dave Shopland/NFL UK
Unless you count a charity cricket match 100 years ago, Twickenham opens its gates to a new sport for the first time since 1909 when the inaugural rugby match was contested there between Harlequins and Richmond.
American football NFL-style comes to town on Sunday when the Los Angeles Rams lock horns with the New York Giants, in what is week seven of the regular season Stateside.
The Rams, who left St Louis in the close season and relocated to their former home in LA, now find themselves the ‘home’ team in London for this fixture in the 2016 NFL International Series.
It is the first time a game has ventured away from its usual venue, Wembley Stadium, and it is a new venture for the RFU and the home of England rugby. Twickenham will host two more games as part of a three-year deal.
As Wembley adapts itself to gridiron, so too has Twickenham, with some significant alterations to accommodate all the teams bring with them, on top of the 46 players per side who get suited up for the game.
An RFU spokesperson said: “Due to the larger squads and staff numbers compared to a usual rugby fixture, a number of changes have been made to the team areas — changing rooms and tunnel. The Rams coaches will take up the England changing room and will use the Twickenham gym as a locker room — giving the team more space behind the scenes.
“For the away side changing room for the Giants we have knocked through into the England Rugby Internationals Club room to create a larger locker room for players and the coaching team. The coaches’ boxes will be installed on level six of the stadium, rather than above the tunnel where they are located for rugby fixtures.”
The capacity at the stadium is 82,000 for rugby but will be cut to 75,000 on Sunday owing to the sheer number of players and staff along the sidelines during an NFL game, which would mean spectators would not be able to see over them in the rows at the front.The usual disabled seats have also been moved to viewing platforms in the North and South stands to ensure good sight lines.
One of the concerns of soccer fans was the potential damage to the Wembley playing surface caused by an NFL game in the early years. The RFU have no such fears.
“Our pitch here at Twickenham is a DESSO grassmaster, so a composition of grass and manmade fibres,” said the spokesperson.
“We are used to hosting multiple events here, including staging 10 matches in last year’s Rugby World Cup and five in the upcoming Old Mutual Wealth Series for our men’s and women’s teams so the pitch is fully prepared for Sunday.
“It will be fully washed and cut out one week after the game and our next fixture is the England v South Africa rugby match in the Old Mutual Wealth Series on November 12.”
So the stage is set for the Rams, who have a 3-3 record, to face the Giants, also on 3-3 after six weeks. Keep an eye on Giants wide receiver Odell Beckham Jnr, a talented and high-profile player, particularly ‘visible’ when he celebrates a touchdown.
http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/oth...diction-tickets-tv-coverage-and-a3376381.html
New York Giants vs LA Rams NFL International Series preview: Prediction, tickets, TV coverage and betting odds
JAMES BENGE
Twickenham will host its first gridiron contest on Sunday, with the Los Angeles Rams the ‘home’ team against the New York Giants, meaning London’s NFL fanatics will get the chance to see perhaps the most exciting American footballer on the planet, Odell Beckham Jr.
The Giants wide receiver is one of a host of stars who could light up South-West London, including Offensive Rookie of the Year Todd Gurley and two-time Super Bowl-winning quarterback Eli Manning.
Both the Rams and the Giants enter Sunday’s match with identical 3-3 records and will have a week off after this week’s clash. The winner at Twickenham could enjoy a crucial fillip in the chase for a playoff spot whilst defeat would be a tough blow for either side’s ambitions.
The Rams will ‘host’ the Giants at Twickenham on Sunday October 23. Kick-off is at 2:30pm UK time.
BBC Two will have live coverage of the match, starting at 2pm.
ONE TO WATCH
Wide receiver Beckham Jr has become one of the NFL’s most high-profile players since his 2014 rookie year and became the fastest player to reach 200 receptions in the league’s history, doing so in only 30 games during a week 3 game against the Redskins.
Beckham Jr comes into the match in fine form after a career-best 222 yards and two touchdowns in a 27-23 win over the Baltimore Ravens.
The Giants No.13 has also courted controversy for his actions on and off the field and received his fourth fine of the season for removing his helmet in the Ravens win. Whether he is on the winning side or not expect all eyes to be on Beckham Jr at Twickenham.
BETTING ODDS (via 888 Sport)
Los Angeles Rams to win: 27/25
New York Giants to win: 39/50
There are also some frightfully stupid people there.
LOLOL
Yeah okay
And Beckham doesn't look better because of that 1st round #1 overall QB throwing to him and those 1st round OLinemen blocking for Eli? Everybody is better with a supporting cast of 1st rounders around him.
Love when people use that idiotic hater phrase. Just moves them down to the bottom rung of society in my book.
As one other Giants fan said "how good would the Rams have been with Eli and the Giants and OBJ be with Austin Davis and Case Keenum?"
