What is the best plan for the OL?

[FrantikRam]

Jourdan said that Shelton hasn't decided if he was going to void this year or not....would be nice if he didn't

 

[bubbaramfan]

Resign Dotson, let Shelton walk, draft C Powers-Johnson.

 

[Cjcinec]

I think you can upgrade Shelton, and I feel that Dotson is going to be really expensive. I'd re-sign A-Jax because he's young and will get even better. I know it's unpopular, but I'd let both Shelton and Dotson go, sign, say, Robert Hunt (who will likely cost less than Dotson, but has been far more consistent in his career), draft Cooper Beebe to move Avila to center, and make ourselves a big, physical, nasty O-line to play against, one that would make San Fran's vaunted D-line look like little kids against men.

I’m thinking that’s way too much movement. I’d draft a big center with the second or third round pick and keep Avila and Jackson on the left side. Sign Dotson with the savings from moving on from Noteboom and Allen. Try t resign Shelton as the backup IOL and draft a developmental tackle to eventually take over for Havenstein. If Bruss develops in the offseason he could be the rotational IOL backup. Rams definitely need to invest in the offensive line because that was the difference this season. Continuity really helps o line play so if Dotson can be retained it will really help. Same for Shelton but the Rams have other options. I think this is considered a good draft for IOL and lineman in general so I’d like to see them onboard 2-3 more offensive lineman through the draft. Havenstein is likely in his last two seasons and if they move on from Allen and Boom they need more lineman to replace them. Let’s make offensive line a priority. Rams just had the best draft they have had in a long time. Puka has been outstanding so not taking anything away from him but the best addition that the Rams made for the 2023 season was without a doubt Steve Avila. Without Avila Puka would not have gotten the opportunities he had. EVERYTHING starts with line play and protection.

 

[Cjcinec]

Jackson said last year he wouldn't move to OG so that option is out.

They brought Shelton back for a reason. It was a prove-it year as a starter and he did exactly that. People automatically assume that you can simply go out and draft an immediate starter at OC but it's not that easy. Why change when you have a player who has proved he can play the position well? They will offer Shelton the same basic package they offered Allen and I would be surprised if he didn't take it. I think they will extend Shelton and promote McAllister to backup center and potential future starter down the line.

The question remains on how much are they willing to pay Dotson. I think they will make a fair offer of between $5M and $7M/ yr. But as we saw with Corbett there are always teams willing to overpay. But like with Corbett they then often end up with buyer's regret. Corbett has been injury plagued and hasn't lived up to expectations. You have to know the Rams are more than cognizant of that. But it will come down to it being Dotson's decision. My guess is that it could be 50/50 with him because he knows he will have finally nailed down a starting position on a team that can contend. If he moves on IMO their contingency is McClendon who could make a good RG.

The other question marks are Havenstein and Noteboom. Havenstein is due for a cap hit of $14.7M next year. Do they pay him that kind of money when he struggled as he did in Detroit? His age IMO is also a big factor. That's a lot to pay for one last year for a player who doesn't project beyond next season. Noteboom has a big cap hit especially considering his injury is the type that can be chronic. IMO it sealed his fate as a post June 1 cap release.

I think the obvious solution is to make both Rob and Joe post June 1 release transactions for cap relief and regain over $20M in cap, and draft a LT of the future this year and start him at RT this year then move him to the left side next year after paying Jackson as a tendered player (2nd rd) this year. If Jackson improves and they are able to extend him they can keep their drafted OT at RT.

It's time to see if Arcuri can play as a swing OT which I don't anticipate considering he's shown zero to date and trotting out an injured Noteboom last year was their preference last season. I wouldn't be surprised to see them take two OTs in this draft.

McVay is going to want as much continuity on the OL as possible, so I think it's on the right side where changes might be made.

Havenstein had a really good season in 2023. He struggled with speed rushers at times but show me a RT in the NFL that doesn’t. Just need a little help from a TE in those situations. You are underestimating how good Havenstein played overall especially in the run game. No way you eat that kind of cap space to move on from a productive player.

 

[Memento]

I’m thinking that’s way too much movement. I’d draft a big center with the second or third round pick and keep Avila and Jackson on the left side. Sign Dotson with the savings from moving on from Noteboom and Allen. Try t resign Shelton as the backup IOL and draft a developmental tackle to eventually take over for Havenstein. If Bruss develops in the offseason he could be the rotational IOL backup. Rams definitely need to invest in the offensive line because that was the difference this season. Continuity really helps o line play so if Dotson can be retained it will really help. Same for Shelton but the Rams have other options. I think this is considered a good draft for IOL and lineman in general so I’d like to see them onboard 2-3 more offensive lineman through the draft. Havenstein is likely in his last two seasons and if they move on from Allen and Boom they need more lineman to replace them. Let’s make offensive line a priority. Rams just had the best draft they have had in a long time. Puka has been outstanding so not taking anything away from him but the best addition that the Rams made for the 2023 season was without a doubt Steve Avila. Without Avila Puka would not have gotten the opportunities he had. EVERYTHING starts with line play and protection.

Agreed with the bolded, but again, I don't think we re-sign Dotson; he will be extremely expensive, and I don't know if you pay that. Shelton can - and should - be upgraded, especially for the money he'll command.

Hunt's around the same age, a little older than Dotson, and will be less expensive; I'm assuming that's what Snead means by "targeting second-wave free agents". Avila can play center, and honestly, if he's as good at center as guard (which is a real possibility; he played a lot of center at Texas Christian), we have our Travis Frederick, our Creed Humphrey.

Then all you need is an interior lineman, and I feel that Beebe is the best out of the lot.

So that's my explanation.

 

[Juice]

I appreciate all you guys. This thread is an example of why I come here.

 

[Ram_Rally]

Food corner? Like three gas stations and a fast-food joint?

That's great value right there

 

[RamsOfCastamere]

Agreed with the bolded, but again, I don't think we re-sign Dotson; he will be extremely expensive, and I don't know if you pay that. Shelton can - and should - be upgraded, especially for the money he'll command.

Hunt's around the same age, a little older than Dotson, and will be less expensive; I'm assuming that's what Snead means by "targeting second-wave free agents". Avila can play center, and honestly, if he's as good at center as guard (which is a real possibility; he played a lot of center at Texas Christian), we have our Travis Frederick, our Creed Humphrey.

Then all you need is an interior lineman, and I feel that Beebe is the best out of the lot.

So that's my explanation.

How expensive do you think he'll be? Per the below list, where would you slot Dotson? All of the guys above Ben Powers have Pro Bowls on their belts. You pay extra for UFAs but I don't know if he'll pass Bitonio.

Also I'm hearing that Robert Hunt is a top FA for the Dolphins so you may have to pay extra anyways to pry him away from Miami and that flashy offense.

 

[WestCoastRam]

How expensive do you think he'll be? Per the below list, where would you slot Dotson? All of the guys above Ben Powers have Pro Bowls on their belts. You pay extra for UFAs but I don't know if he'll pass Bitonio.

Also I'm hearing that Robert Hunt is a top FA for the Dolphins so you may have to pay extra anyways to pry him away from Miami and that flashy offense.

View attachment 64368

Wouldn't it be more appropriate to just look at the guards that were signed last year and their deals in 2023 as that's where the market is. The above seems good for looking at the historical nature of things (like looking at the Dow over 10 years) but doesn't really say much about what the market's doing year over year.

Actually, it's probably wise to look at 2022-23 as we'll get a better cross section of guards signed (good/bad/great) and it will still be recent enough to get a sense where contracts are and you'll prob have to add the markup of whatever that cap is going up (I don't have the numbers in front of me).

Sportrac estimates 16 and change average salary per year which seems high. Back of the envelop: I imagine he'd be averaging 13-14 a year but I could be underestimating how much the cap going up will cause inflation here.

 

[Tumak61]

What history is that?
Rams have signed many players to big contract extensions, even though it seemed like they may go the other way. Ex Higbee, Havenstien, Noteboom etc

Dotson can play one position on the Line. Rams usually let those guys go. Time will tell.

 

[So Ram]

Havenstein had a really good season in 2023. He struggled with speed rushers at times but show me a RT in the NFL that doesn’t. Just need a little help from a TE in those situations. You are underestimating how good Havenstein played overall especially in the run game. No way you eat that kind of cap space to move on from a productive player.

Agree - think dude is out of his mind imo.Noteboom is also a keeper.At least until after the draft & training camp.

Give credit for at least waiting,but the leadership & play is still there & important moving forward..

Never say never & competition is always welcome.Alaric Hackson showed that as a UDRFA to be a starter at year 3(2).

Right now all The Rams have is Avila,Noteboom & Havenstien signed ?

The Rams might have to address The O’Line early?

 

[fanotodd]

Definitely not a fundamental mistake. But just not my team building preference. If they go that route I won't complain though.

Agree. I definitely want the Rams to work something out to keep Dotson, but that $16mil mark would be MY ceiling.

 

[fanotodd]

Observation about Noteboom's cap numbers.

Most posters are unhappy about his 2024 cap hit of $20M; plus another $10M in 2025 Dead-$/Void Year.

One thing to consider ... the Rams have NOT had significant cap hits for Noteboom prior to now.

He signed his big-$ extension (three years / $40M) in 2022 but like many big contracts, it was structured to have a small cap-hit in Year 1 (something to consider with regard to Kevin Dotson). Then the Rams restructured Noteboom in 2023 for cap relief.

As a result, Noteboom carried a small $3.5M cap-hit in 2022; and just $6.5M last year. The reality is that Noteboom has been Cheap (against the cap) the prior two seasons ... Unfortunately, he has also been injury prone, and his play has been only about average.

The cost for signing him to an extension after the Super Bowl; and then restructuring for 2023 cap relief has got to be felt on the Rams Salary Cap; and, it has NOT yet been felt. Regardless of whether the Rams keep him or release him (pre or post June 1), they will feel that cost against their cap over the next two seasons.

Then they might as well keep him. He’s a solid 6th man. The problem is that squeezes the team even more in their attempt to bring back Dotson.

 

[fanotodd]

I think it might be fun to go back and watch him play guard last year, he did quite well.

I’ll say this, he looked better at RG than LG (terrible!). Dotson looked better though, and was always available

 

[OnceARam]

New Guard: Let Dotson go and replace with draft pick. Retain Shelton.​

Dotson is 1) not a culture fit, and 2) not good. Plus he will cost precious CAP$ that could be used for CB and EDGE.

Also, did you guys forget the inside pressure that almost killed Stafford vs. Detroit?

That pressure was due to Dotson`s inability to pass block. Yes he can run block, but come on man...

*I am saying he is not a culture fit because he was a FA signing as opposed to a Drafted player. The Rams, as we know, are big into culture.

 

[dieterbrock]

*I am saying he is not a culture fit because he was a FA signing as opposed to a Drafted player. The Rams, as we know, are big into culture.

They traded for him, he wasnt a FA. Like Stafford, who they also didnt draft. Is he not part of the culture either?

 

[Allen2McVay]

Then they might as well keep him. He’s a solid 6th man. The problem is that squeezes the team even more in their attempt to bring back Dotson.

I agree, and think it's a tough call on Noteboom.

My primary point in the post was that Noteboom WILL hit the Rams' salary cap pretty hard over the next couple seasons regardless of what they do with him.

When a player signs a big-$-contract, at some point, there WILL be a significant cap hit. The way his contract was structured and re-structured, the Rams have not yet had THAT significant cap hit ... But, they will. Unavoidable.

 

[Allen2McVay]

They traded for him, he wasn't a FA. Like Stafford, who they also didn't draft. Is he not part of the culture either?

THIS; plus, even if Dotson had been a free agent, Whitworth, Woods and Sullivan were huge contributors to the positive, winning "Culture" brought in when McVay was hired in 2017. They were All free agent additions.

 

[Loyal]

What plan do you favor?

I want to retain Dotson, let Shelton go and draft (1st) both a LT and Center. Let Jackson stay at LT until the rook is trained up and then let them fight it out to be the starter.

 

[OnceARam]

They traded for him, he wasnt a FA. Like Stafford, who they also didnt draft. Is he not part of the culture either?

Damnit… I knew someone would call me out for shoddy logic! Still doesn’t excuse bad pass blocking.