What I think is gonna happen

[Mackeyser]

I'm mostly tidying up since this whole Goff/Wentz debate is getting too tribal for me. No point, really. We'll take who we take and we'll live with it. Or not, I guess.

I was gonna do a draft preview and I still might, cuz... /shrug, but ultimately, we all wanna know what's gonna happen and it's what I used to do.

Anyway, based on a few things, this is how I think it's going to play out.

Wentz has come in for his visit. I think this is his last chance to win them over. I think he has a TON of love in the building because of his leadership and his various other attributes. I think he reaffirms all of that and makes the decision harder.

Goff comes in in a few days and wins Snisher's eye and the job. That 17 point thing is massive for them. They just want Keenum on steroids... a pocket QB who can make things happen. They believe Goff is that guy.

How can I know this? I don't, but deductive reasoning is a beautiful thing.

Few things.

1) Fisher's statements tend to give him away. When talking about Wentz, they were conciliatory. "Wentz will be a good player... he'll win Super Bowls". That's not what you say about someone you are going to take. He could say the same thing about Ezekiel Elliot, fer cryin' out loud. For it to mean something, it would have to be, "Wentz will be a good player...he's the type of player who would win us Super Bowls." Yuge difference. Fishers' statements regarding Goff, otoh, have been unequivocal.

2) After suffering with GRob and Quick, the draft philosophy has radically shifted to experience. You look at how much emphasis they place on experience now. So many thought Havenstein was a reach, but he gave up no sacks. Well, the experience isn't close. Games? Goff 37, Wentz 23. Granted Goff has 5 years in the system, but 23 games. They are drafting experience.

3) Fisher wanted to run a WCO, but didn't have the QB to do it and it was a disaster. Now, he's got this MacGyver'd offense that is an abomination in every sense of the word. I think he's looking at Goff as the QB who can run the WCO that he wants to run, a power running WCO variant that horizontally stretches the field. The horizontal stretch favors long runs by a home run hitting RB which, we happen to have one of the best in the entire NFL. It wouldn't surprise me at all if after drafting Goff, they create that power running WCO variant. Keenum might struggle with it, but it wouldn't be for Keenum.

4) Fisher is not tied to McNair as much as people think. He knows the magic of that offense was Eddie George and he has his Eddie George. Now, he has a chance to make a different choice and he's going to make it. McNair never got him over the hump.

I think when they are sitting there after the pick is announced, Fisher and Snead will be sitting there with big smiles and Goff will be there between them and they will let it be known after through surrogates that it wasn't as close as they let on.

It was always Goff for them.

All this build up was about helping the Networks, the NFL and building the LA Rams Brand. It wasn't, however, about choosing between Wentz and Goff.

It was always Goff.

I've been wrong before (Gerald McCoy comes to mind), but not terribly often. Pretty sure I've got this one right and for the right reasons.

I hope Goff becomes the QB this team needs.

 

[den-the-coach]

2) After suffering with GRob and Quick, the draft philosophy has radically shifted to experience. You look at how much emphasis they place on experience now. So many thought Havenstein was a reach, but he gave up no sacks. Well, the experience isn't close. Games? Goff 37, Wentz 23. Granted Goff has 5 years in the system, but 23 games. They are drafting experience.

It was always Goff for them.

All this build up was about helping the Networks, the NFL and building the LA Rams Brand. It wasn't, however, about choosing between Wentz and Goff.

It was always Goff.

The Havenstein example along with others on the OL, Brown, Donnell & Wichmann had plenty of games under their belt and that worked to the Rams advantage when they had major injuries across the front.

Fantastic post @Mackeyser and the California Connection with the fans Goff has gathered is a plus as well.

 

[RamsJunkie]

JK.... I like the way your thinking!

 

[Mackeyser]

I still think Wentz is the better fit, but that doesn't change what I think will happen.

Those are two entirely different things.

Actually, it's more like Wentz fits what they are doing NOW.

Goff may fit what they ASPIRE to do, but couldn't do before.

Yet another reason I think they go Goff.

I don't agree, but then again, I've never liked the WCO... it requires an exceptional QB AND weapons and certain defenses really shut it down (the Rams have had great success against the Saints' Gulf Coast WCO, for example).

I'd much rather we went Wentz and transitioned to the Earhardt Perkins offense like Pittsburgh did with Big Ben. That can be successful with a Big Back who can be a receiver (check) and a single deep threat (check). We've even got an all-purpose weapon in Austin.

But that's silly wishing and not what this thread is about.

This is about what I think will happen and I think the Rams will draft Jared Goff.

 

[Mackeyser]

The Havenstein example along with others on the OL, Brown, Donnell & Wichmann had plenty of games under their belt and that worked to the Rams advantage when they had major injuries across the front.

Fantastic post @Mackeyser and the California Connection with the fans Goff has gathered is a plus as well.

Honestly, I don't think the California connection means anything.

I think one of the biggest things is that Goff is best suited to a WCO and Fisher really wanted to run that WCO and it failed utterly... and Goff gives him the chance to do it again.

Hopefully, with better results...

 

[FarNorth]

I'm mostly tidying up since this whole Goff/Wentz debate is getting too tribal for me. No point, really. We'll take who we take and we'll live with it. Or not, I guess.

I was gonna do a draft preview and I still might, cuz... /shrug, but ultimately, we all wanna know what's gonna happen and it's what I used to do.

Anyway, based on a few things, this is how I think it's going to play out.

Wentz has come in for his visit. I think this is his last chance to win them over. I think he has a TON of love in the building because of his leadership and his various other attributes. I think he reaffirms all of that and makes the decision harder.

Goff comes in in a few days and wins Snisher's eye and the job. That 17 point thing is massive for them. They just want Keenum on steroids... a pocket QB who can make things happen. They believe Goff is that guy.

How can I know this? I don't, but deductive reasoning is a beautiful thing.

Few things.

1) Fisher's statements tend to give him away. When talking about Wentz, they were conciliatory. "Wentz will be a good player... he'll win Super Bowls". That's not what you say about someone you are going to take. He could say the same thing about Ezekiel Elliot, fer cryin' out loud. For it to mean something, it would have to be, "Wentz will be a good player...he's the type of player who would win us Super Bowls." Yuge difference. Fishers' statements regarding Goff, otoh, have been unequivocal.

2) After suffering with GRob and Quick, the draft philosophy has radically shifted to experience. You look at how much emphasis they place on experience now. So many thought Havenstein was a reach, but he gave up no sacks. Well, the experience isn't close. Games? Goff 37, Wentz 23. Granted Goff has 5 years in the system, but 23 games. They are drafting experience.

3) Fisher wanted to run a WCO, but didn't have the QB to do it and it was a disaster. Now, he's got this MacGyver'd offense that is an abomination in every sense of the word. I think he's looking at Goff as the QB who can run the WCO that he wants to run, a power running WCO variant that horizontally stretches the field. The horizontal stretch favors long runs by a home run hitting RB which, we happen to have one of the best in the entire NFL. It wouldn't surprise me at all if after drafting Goff, they create that power running WCO variant. Keenum might struggle with it, but it wouldn't be for Keenum.

4) Fisher is not tied to McNair as much as people think. He knows the magic of that offense was Eddie George and he has his Eddie George. Now, he has a chance to make a different choice and he's going to make it. McNair never got him over the hump.

I think when they are sitting there after the pick is announced, Fisher and Snead will be sitting there with big smiles and Goff will be there between them and they will let it be known after through surrogates that it wasn't as close as they let on.

It was always Goff for them.

All this build up was about helping the Networks, the NFL and building the LA Rams Brand. It wasn't, however, about choosing between Wentz and Goff.

It was always Goff.

I've been wrong before (Gerald McCoy comes to mind), but not terribly often. Pretty sure I've got this one right and for the right reasons.

I hope Goff becomes the QB this team needs.

My crystal ball is showing the same smoky images as your crystal ball. I like Wentz a lot, but to me Goff is exceptional as a passer, and Fisher knows it.

 

[12intheBox]

I think we are all overthinking this. This selection has nothing to do with other QBs, NFL draft history, geography, or anything else other than QB evaluation.

In the end, the Rams will have done a professional evaluation of the two QBs, will have rated each one, and will pick the higher graded prospect.

All the rest of this is media fodder, message board chatter, and water cooler rumors.

Its simple - they are going to take the guy they think is better. Thats it. No other agenda, no hidden code, no ulterior motives. Just a football decision.

 

[LACHAMP46]

Venturi, Cossell, Mayock....several ex-scouts all say Wentz.....people that know people that make these decisions....

I'll stick by my gut, no way we let a genius with height, size, speed and similar offense get away from us....

 

[Ram65]

I think we are all overthinking this. This selection has nothing to do with other QBs, NFL draft history, geography, or anything else other than QB evaluation.

Good call. I'll add in "fit" to the equation. Both QBs can fit into the Rams system.

 

[Mackeyser]

I don't dispute any of that.

That said, does anyone think even Drew Brees would have fared THAT much better in the crapstorm of an "offense" that we put out there. I don't mean the players, I mean the coherent offensive philosophy that might be called a system with a goal in mind to score points.

There were plenty of times I'm not sure Johnny Unitas, himself, could have done one single thing any different because the offense was broken...systemically.

Which means that unless they fix the system... NEITHER QB is set up for success.

That was part of why I liked Wentz better. His ability to create would have allowed for the installation of an actual system along the way.

I don't see that with Goff. That's not Goff's fault. It's just not a strength of his game as a pocket passer.

Keenum's going to start the season with 3 of 4 away games and 3 of 4 in the division. Our team always starts slow and if it weren't for Seattle starting even slower and us having AZ's number a bit, we'd have started 0-4 last season.

In one respect, @jrry32 and I agree strongly and that is neither of us believe that this coaching group can develop a QB.

So, if they had to make a mistake (phrasing the pick in the most negative light), which would hurt the least considering the craptastic offensive system and the wasted weapons? I think Wentz.

Now, if they optimized the offense and actually had a fully functioning power running WCO and all that, then Goff could easily be the most outstanding choice!!!

Now... who thinks that's actually going to happen?

It's not just which QB is better in the abstract, it's which QB will be better in this environment, with an offensive coaching staff that resembles "The Gang Who Couldn't Shoot Straight".

Ask me which QB would be better to replace Rodgers in GB or Brady in NE or Brees in NO and I'd say GOFF and it wouldn't be close. All of those places have excellent offensive staffs that can develop QBs and coherent coaching philosophies.

Like I said, if Fisher had been fired and Asshole Face was working with Les Snead, this wouldn't be a question for me. It would be Goff without a second of hesitation.

But, as long as Fisher is our HC (and that seems like it will be the case for a long while), then our offense will have significant elements of dysfunction. We've all seen this since Fisher got here. I'm not talking trash or dissing him, it's a matter of fact. And in that scenario, I'd put a guy with a superior depth of knowledge and creation ability back there over a pocket passer who is essentially set up to fail half the time.

The pick for me of Wentz over Goff is more of a lack of faith in Fisher and co than it is an endorsement of EITHER prospect.

I like them both. I'll root like mad for Goff when he's wearing horns.

He'll find out soon enough that Keenum is better than folks believe and that our offensive system is really, really that bad.

 

[Mackeyser]

Venturi, Cossell, Mayock....several ex-scouts all say Wentz.....people that know people that make these decisions....

I'll stick by my gut, no way we let a genius with height, size, speed and similar offense get away from us....

I'm with you, but I bet they do.

Fisher wants to run that WCO that failed hard. Bet they go right back to it even though they still have no idea how to do it.

/sigh

 

[DaveFan'51]

So this is what I think is going to happen, the Day of the 1st round of the Draft, BUT before the Draft Starts, the Rams will announce their Pick Pre-Draft and all the talk will be like :wow:What a Great Fit!!:blah: And then for the last Half hour before the Draft the attention will turn to "What do you think the Brown's are going to do!!:blah: JMHO

 

[NJRamsFan]

Hmm Mack, seems you've set yourself up to be right...or right :cheers:. In all seriousness...I agree with a lot that you said think it's goff and is was never as close as we were lead to believe. Hopefully he's what I and many others see him to be and he gets us over the hump

 

[Merlin]

First off @Mackeyser that was a great read man. Secondly, I hope that you are correct because I love Goff and want to see a GSoT type of offense moreso than a NY Giants offense. Just a preference of mine, as I realize both have their advantages. Oh and I do think your note about Fish being conciliatory in what he said might well prove to be right, we'll see.

But I want to go back to the Rams' decision to trade up. I agree that it's not close in their minds, because you don't give up that much unless you absolutely fall in love with a prospect to the point where your front office is unanimous in support of one guy. IF they liked both, they would have moved up with Cleveland, who is legitimately trying to move out and who would have allowed them to keep a pick or two.

So when you consider which one they would have fallen for, if you go back Wentz had a pro day of asinine proportions, prompting many esteemed personnel folks to crow about it, to include Gil Brandt who called it the second best pro day he had ever witnessed, second only to Bradford. And as an aside if you consider the ridiculous opinion teams still have of Bradford in spite of all his struggles, it demonstrates the power of that pro day in the minds of football personnel.

But further than that is the personality and intelligence of Wentz. The dude has swagger and confidence in spades and wows people in interviews. His football knowledge and recall is already well known among league people and you could see it plainly in his interview with Mooch and how he handled him. A life of straight A's in school and his squeaky clean background and hard-nosed work ethic all tie perfectly into the above as well. If I had to guess who wowed the Rams between the two of them purely based on interviews it would be Wentz.

What I think happened is Wentz blew their effin minds in that workout. Then he blew their effin minds in interviews. Then they said to themselves "holy F this is the next elite QB in the NFL" and proceeded to give up what they needed to in order to move up.

Thankfully we'll know soon, though, because it's drivin me nuts.

 

[Mackeyser]

Well, I really don't think it's about Goff.

If Fisher and Co don't get their acts together, it won't matter if Unitas Almighty is back there, the Rams offense will suck.

That's what I've been trying to get at with "fit".

If they get their acts together and actually put together a coherent offense, then, yes, Goff may very well be in a position to succeed and get us over the hump.

But if they don't, he could very well be David Carr'd... maybe not sacked as much, but failed by his organization and ultimately not unsuccessful because of his talent, but because he wasn't developed.

And let's not pretend that THATS not a real possibility.

We've all been watching this same offense the past 4 years...

 

[Mackeyser]

First off @Mackeyser that was a great read man. Secondly, I hope that you are correct because I love Goff and want to see a GSoT type of offense moreso than a NY Giants offense. Just a preference of mine, as I realize both have their advantages. Oh and I do think your note about Fish being conciliatory in what he said might well prove to be right, we'll see.

But I want to go back to the Rams' decision to trade up. I agree that it's not close in their minds, because you don't give up that much unless you absolutely fall in love with a prospect to the point where your front office is unanimous in support of one guy. IF they liked both, they would have moved up with Cleveland, who is legitimately trying to move out and who would have allowed them to keep a pick or two.

So when you consider which one they would have fallen for, if you go back Wentz had a pro day of asinine proportions, prompting many esteemed personnel folks to crow about it, to include Gil Brandt who called it the second best pro day he had ever witnessed, second only to Bradford. And as an aside if you consider the ridiculous opinion teams still have of Bradford in spite of all his struggles, it demonstrates the power of that pro day in the minds of football personnel.

But further than that is the personality and intelligence of Wentz. The dude has swagger and confidence in spades and wows people in interviews. His football knowledge and recall is already well known among league people and you could see it plainly in his interview with Mooch and how he handled him. A life of straight A's in school and his squeaky clean background and hard-nosed work ethic all tie perfectly into the above as well. If I had to guess who wowed the Rams between the two of them purely based on interviews it would be Wentz.

What I think happened is Wentz blew their effin minds in that workout. Then he blew their effin minds in interviews. Then they said to themselves "holy F this is the next elite QB in the NFL" and proceeded to give up what they needed to in order to move up.

Thankfully we'll know soon, though, because it's drivin me nuts.

Yeah, bro, no doubt. Like caffeinated squirrel kinda nuts...

I don't think it was close. I think Wentz is making it hard on them. Wentz is such a Fisher type guy that I'm sure he's had more than a few moments of doubt.

But in the end, I think Fisher wants to run that WCO. I mean, he REALLY wanted to run that... And, no doubt, Goff is the better fit in a WCO.

But, please... don't EVER expect anything close to a GSOT while Fisher is here. If we every score 40 points it's because the defense scored at least 14. In the entire time Fisher's been here, how many times have we scored 30 offensive points in a game? Twice? Pretty sure once was against Oakland when we blew them out 52-0 or whatever. I think we did it one other time... I'd be real surprised if this team scored more than 30 offensive points in a game more than twice. It's just not how Fisher wants to do it. Even if we have Goff, he's not going to call those kinds of plays to run up the score. He's going to want to grind it out.

Fisher will think he struck paydirt if Goff has 23-28 245yds 2TDs and 0INTs and the Rams win 17-9.

That's Fisherball.

Now, if anyone thinks Goff is gonna come to the Rams and start throwing for 300+ yards a game and "dropping dimes" and all that...well...no. That's highly unlikely.

Fisher's gonna grind it out with Goff. Which is why the choice confuses me. He doesn't know how to run a WCO and his tendencies are to grind...but he's going to go with the pocket passer...

I'm not confused about their talent. I'm confused about Snisher's decision making abilities...

 

[Rynie]

What happened to Lynch? His draft stock has dropped, huh?

 

[Mackeyser]

Well, Lynch isn't in play to go first overall, if that's what you're asking...

 

[tahoe]

I'm mostly tidying up since this whole Goff/Wentz debate is getting too tribal for me. No point, really. We'll take who we take and we'll live with it. Or not, I guess.

I was gonna do a draft preview and I still might, cuz... /shrug, but ultimately, we all wanna know what's gonna happen and it's what I used to do.

Anyway, based on a few things, this is how I think it's going to play out.

Wentz has come in for his visit. I think this is his last chance to win them over. I think he has a TON of love in the building because of his leadership and his various other attributes. I think he reaffirms all of that and makes the decision harder.

Goff comes in in a few days and wins Snisher's eye and the job. That 17 point thing is massive for them. They just want Keenum on steroids... a pocket QB who can make things happen. They believe Goff is that guy.

How can I know this? I don't, but deductive reasoning is a beautiful thing.

Few things.

1) Fisher's statements tend to give him away. When talking about Wentz, they were conciliatory. "Wentz will be a good player... he'll win Super Bowls". That's not what you say about someone you are going to take. He could say the same thing about Ezekiel Elliot, fer cryin' out loud. For it to mean something, it would have to be, "Wentz will be a good player...he's the type of player who would win us Super Bowls." Yuge difference. Fishers' statements regarding Goff, otoh, have been unequivocal.

2) After suffering with GRob and Quick, the draft philosophy has radically shifted to experience. You look at how much emphasis they place on experience now. So many thought Havenstein was a reach, but he gave up no sacks. Well, the experience isn't close. Games? Goff 37, Wentz 23. Granted Goff has 5 years in the system, but 23 games. They are drafting experience.

3) Fisher wanted to run a WCO, but didn't have the QB to do it and it was a disaster. Now, he's got this MacGyver'd offense that is an abomination in every sense of the word. I think he's looking at Goff as the QB who can run the WCO that he wants to run, a power running WCO variant that horizontally stretches the field. The horizontal stretch favors long runs by a home run hitting RB which, we happen to have one of the best in the entire NFL. It wouldn't surprise me at all if after drafting Goff, they create that power running WCO variant. Keenum might struggle with it, but it wouldn't be for Keenum.

4) Fisher is not tied to McNair as much as people think. He knows the magic of that offense was Eddie George and he has his Eddie George. Now, he has a chance to make a different choice and he's going to make it. McNair never got him over the hump.

I think when they are sitting there after the pick is announced, Fisher and Snead will be sitting there with big smiles and Goff will be there between them and they will let it be known after through surrogates that it wasn't as close as they let on.

It was always Goff for them.

All this build up was about helping the Networks, the NFL and building the LA Rams Brand. It wasn't, however, about choosing between Wentz and Goff.

It was always Goff.

I've been wrong before (Gerald McCoy comes to mind), but not terribly often. Pretty sure I've got this one right and for the right reasons.

I hope Goff becomes the QB this team needs.

Im not saying you're wrong but I think you're wrong. BTW Wentz ran a wco in college so he is already very familiar.

 

[Merlin]

What happened to Lynch? His draft stock has dropped, huh?

Hearing Jerruh will take him at 4.