What I intend focusing upon vs the Giants...

[badnews]

Actually yes I did. Look at the score prediction thread. Just about everyone was expecting 30+ points on offense.

But you know fans are homers and football is unpredictable. Even when we sucked, just historically awful, being blown out by bad teams, we would still have 1 or 2 games a year where we would beat a good team.
That's not because the Rams had any special ability to turn it on - its just the nature of football. "Any given Sunday" isn't in our vernacular just because of Oliver Stone. Its a truth about the nature of the game.

Scoring a lot of points is great fun for fans and giving up very few points on D is too, but that's not how its supposed to go. These games are supposed to be close, and over the course of a season point differentials will regress to the mean. Odds makers are always much more conservative in their spreads than fans are. Refs have their impact, other teams players do too and just 1 ill-timed fumble or sack can be the difference between beating a team by 8 or 16.

Maybe McVay thought he could use this game to keep his best players healthy. How often was Donald on the sideline? Since when do we not try to get Woods going? He's the motor that runs the Rams offense. Where were the new wrinkles or innovation McVay normally shows? No trickery, no counters, no setting up later plays by showing something and taking advantage of the opposing defenses own rules, etc.
I think after the brutal back to back east coast trips, the opportunity to get through a game without giving up much tape or risking our best players health against a desperate team was just too much for McVay to turn down.
I'm sure it was closer than he anticipated. A fumble here, a missed block there and suddenly his ultra conservative game plan allows a bad team to hang around longer than anticipated.
Risking Goff on multiple drop backs or Woods crossing the middle to beat the lowly Giants when it shouldnt be necessary to get a win could potentially end our season way too soon, so he gambled a little and was proven right.

The last time we played them, McVay disrespected the giants by pouring it on them. This time he disrespected them by essentially saying my team can beat your team with one hand tied behind its back.

Sorry so long. Just rambling thoughts.

 

[MachS]

Goff was very efficient on a day that the run game was slow and recievers went getting open. What if he threw two picks? Rams probably would have lost, thats what. Goff is not the problem.

Its hard not to be efficient throwing 5-10 yard passes all day long. And he almost did throw a pick, it got overturned lucky. Point is why cant he play a great game when we dont have a running game? Dont you ask yourself that? When McVay isn't scheming people wide open via play-action the passing game struggles.

And WRs were running wide open he just missed them. Also inaccurate on multiple throws, and opted to checkdown when not under any pressure when he could have instead tried to extend the play. If you think that type of performance versus a bottom of the barrel defense will beat elite teams like the Seahawks, Packers, Chiefs, Bills, etc...then we didn't watch the same game.

 

[Ramit]

Its hard not to be efficient throwing 5-10 yard passes all day long. And he almost did throw a pick, it got overturned lucky. Point is why cant he play a great game when we dont have a running game? Dont you ask yourself that? When McVay isn't scheming people wide open via play-action the passing game struggles.

And WRs were running wide open he just missed them. Also inaccurate on multiple throws, and opted to checkdown when not under any pressure when he could have instead tried to extend the play. If you think that type of performance versus a bottom of the barrel defense will beat elite teams like the Seahawks, Packers, Chiefs, Bills, etc...then we didn't watch the same game.

Because when the run game is shut down the offense becomes one dimensional. Extend the play? Goff is not Wilson, Rodgers, or Mahomes. He is a rhythm pocket passer. Check down? Listen to McVay CONSTANTLY preach about protecting the football—preach about staying within the structure of the play—that is how he is being coached. 5-10 yard passes? Bro, that's what the vast majority of his completions are, due to scheme; he only had a 9.8ypa due to all of the YAC by receivers. It was McVays play calling that was out of sync and not accounting for what the opposing defense is doing. Goff isn't Peyton Manning. They are given 2 or 3 plays in the huddle and those are the options, period. Do you think he can adjust the scheme on the fly better than McVay? Does he even have that authority?

 

[Ramit]

Because when the run game is shut down the offense becomes one dimensional. Extend the play? Goff is not Wilson, Rodgers, or Mahomes. He is a rhythm pocket passer. Check down? Listen to McVay CONSTANTLY preach about protecting the football—preach about staying within the structure of the play—that is how he is being coached. 5-10 yard passes? Bro, that's what the vast majority of his completions are, due to scheme; he only had a 9.8ypa due to all of the YAC by receivers. It was McVays play calling that was out of sync and not accounting for what the opposing defense is doing. Goff isn't Peyton Manning. They are given 2 or 3 plays in the huddle and those are the options, period. Do you think he can adjust the scheme on the fly better than McVay? Does he even have that authority?

Its hard not to be efficient throwing 5-10 yard passes all day long. And he almost did throw a pick, it got overturned lucky. Point is why cant he play a great game when we dont have a running game? Dont you ask yourself that? When McVay isn't scheming people wide open via play-action the passing game struggles.

And WRs were running wide open he just missed them. Also inaccurate on multiple throws, and opted to checkdown when not under any pressure when he could have instead tried to extend the play. If you think that type of performance versus a bottom of the barrel defense will beat elite teams like the Seahawks, Packers, Chiefs, Bills, etc...then we didn't watch the same game.

Oh, and I would also like to add that if it wasn't hard then every QB would be able to remain efficient in said circumstances.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

But you know fans are homers and football is unpredictable. Even when we sucked, just historically awful, being blown out by bad teams, we would still have 1 or 2 games a year where we would beat a good team.
That's not because the Rams had any special ability to turn it on - its just the nature of football. "Any given Sunday" isn't in our vernacular just because of Oliver Stone. Its a truth about the nature of the game.

Scoring a lot of points is great fun for fans and giving up very few points on D is too, but that's not how its supposed to go. These games are supposed to be close, and over the course of a season point differentials will regress to the mean. Odds makers are always much more conservative in their spreads than fans are. Refs have their impact, other teams players do too and just 1 ill-timed fumble or sack can be the difference between beating a team by 8 or 16.

Maybe McVay thought he could use this game to keep his best players healthy. How often was Donald on the sideline? Since when do we not try to get Woods going? He's the motor that runs the Rams offense. Where were the new wrinkles or innovation McVay normally shows? No trickery, no counters, no setting up later plays by showing something and taking advantage of the opposing defenses own rules, etc.
I think after the brutal back to back east coast trips, the opportunity to get through a game without giving up much tape or risking our best players health against a desperate team was just too much for McVay to turn down.
I'm sure it was closer than he anticipated. A fumble here, a missed block there and suddenly his ultra conservative game plan allows a bad team to hang around longer than anticipated.
Risking Goff on multiple drop backs or Woods crossing the middle to beat the lowly Giants when it shouldnt be necessary to get a win could potentially end our season way too soon, so he gambled a little and was proven right.

The last time we played them, McVay disrespected the giants by pouring it on them. This time he disrespected them by essentially saying my team can beat your team with one hand tied behind its back.

Sorry so long. Just rambling thoughts.

The most disturbing part wasn’t the close score. It was the Giants forcing so many three and outs.
And I don’t think McVay was resting starters on offense. They just had too much pressure from the Giants defense and very little time to throw. Couple that with very few successful runs and the offense was getting owned.

The defense was on the field too much. That’s why you saw starters on the sideline. They had to rotate players to keep them fresh. That’s what happens when the offense has successive three and outs and the Giants were putting long time consuming drives together.
I’ll never believe that McVay was choosing to lay back on this game for the easy win.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

But you know fans are homers and football is unpredictable. Even when we sucked, just historically awful, being blown out by bad teams, we would still have 1 or 2 games a year where we would beat a good team.
That's not because the Rams had any special ability to turn it on - its just the nature of football. "Any given Sunday" isn't in our vernacular just because of Oliver Stone. Its a truth about the nature of the game.

Scoring a lot of points is great fun for fans and giving up very few points on D is too, but that's not how its supposed to go. These games are supposed to be close, and over the course of a season point differentials will regress to the mean. Odds makers are always much more conservative in their spreads than fans are. Refs have their impact, other teams players do too and just 1 ill-timed fumble or sack can be the difference between beating a team by 8 or 16.

Maybe McVay thought he could use this game to keep his best players healthy. How often was Donald on the sideline? Since when do we not try to get Woods going? He's the motor that runs the Rams offense. Where were the new wrinkles or innovation McVay normally shows? No trickery, no counters, no setting up later plays by showing something and taking advantage of the opposing defenses own rules, etc.
I think after the brutal back to back east coast trips, the opportunity to get through a game without giving up much tape or risking our best players health against a desperate team was just too much for McVay to turn down.
I'm sure it was closer than he anticipated. A fumble here, a missed block there and suddenly his ultra conservative game plan allows a bad team to hang around longer than anticipated.
Risking Goff on multiple drop backs or Woods crossing the middle to beat the lowly Giants when it shouldnt be necessary to get a win could potentially end our season way too soon, so he gambled a little and was proven right.

The last time we played them, McVay disrespected the giants by pouring it on them. This time he disrespected them by essentially saying my team can beat your team with one hand tied behind its back.

Sorry so long. Just rambling thoughts.

Go look at the snap count thread. Woods and Donald were not resting.

 

[nighttrain]

players are people too, and they read the papers and saw where the Gmen were dogs, our guys took this game to lightly, and given Sunday and all that
train

 

[badnews]

The most disturbing part wasn’t the close score. It was the Giants forcing so many three and outs.
And I don’t think McVay was resting starters on offense. They just had too much pressure from the Giants defense and very little time to throw. Couple that with very few successful runs and the offense was getting owned.

The defense was on the field too much. That’s why you saw starters on the sideline. They had to rotate players to keep them fresh. That’s what happens when the offense has successive three and outs and the Giants were putting long time consuming drives together.
I’ll never believe that McVay was choosing to lay back on this game for the easy win.

Yeah, I understand. I just can't explain why McVay would call the game the way he did. There was a lot of things we normally do that we just didn't. We played extremely conservative against a team we were supposed to be able to blow out. Either McVay didn't think we were good enough to do that or he chose not to. I find the latter just as likely as the former, if not more.

There was just too much missing in our game plan for me to believe it was chance. Our scripted 1st drive told us what he wanted to do - play a slow clock game and keep everything close to the chest and the LOS.

 

[badnews]

Go look at the snap count thread. Woods and Donald were not resting.

I saw it and was surprised about Donald's snaps. I knew Woods was out there... but its not like he was involved like normal, no?
And Donald looked like he was either more gassed than normal or he just wasnt his normal self, for whatever reason. There were at least a couple of times I was surprised to see him on the sideline.

I'm not sure what McVay was thinking, it's just a feeling or a guess, but I know that if he did take this game more lightly than normal, we are never ever going to get that confirmed. McVay doesn't like risking his guys (see preseasons) or giving up any information (see injury reports). If he can win a game 3 to zip and keep from playing all of his cards or put his guys in too many dangerous spots, I am sure he would be happy to do that if helps him to win division games. With the way the NFCW is tough top to bottom, McVay has to know that winning outside the division won't be enough. He is going to have to win those games to get to the post season.
There is a trend emerging that suggests McVay sometimes takes his foot off the gas at home against lesser competition. Not sure that its intentional that they are always less innovative and less aggressive than normal in those games, but for whatever reason, they are.

 

[FrantikRam]

There was one replay where a CB that I've never heard of ran Kupp's route for him and Goff had to throw it away. When I saw that I thought, "not our day". Kupp beat White last week and has beaten great CBs his whole career.

Their DL won the battle of the trenches, our pass rush was inconsistent in the second half, our run d was bad, and this was the second game with absolutely no deep passes attempted, and we've attempted very few so far this year.

So, time for some hot takes:

First, I believe it appeared McVay called a poor game because he wanted to stay committed to the run game. However, that put us in 2nd and 8 all game long - which is not where this offense can be apparently.

Second, the lack of deep shots with the sheer volume of passes at or around the line of scrimmage, coupled with the talent of the OL, leads me to believe this is all by design, which is troubling. Like McVay knows our OL will get beaten straight up in pass pro, so he needs to attack only the short and intermediate parts of the field. Well, after three games of tape and likely with Judge asking Belichicks advice, this game plan did not work, and I'd imagine it won't work against any decent defenses. Hope McVay can make some adjustments, because staying on schedule for this offense is necessary.

Third, run defense. Why? How? This was the worst running team in the NFL and, even if you take away Jones' random scrambles, they were pretty effective on the ground.

Fourth, the defense in general - when your ILBs and EDGE guys are what ours are, and you see the overall structure of the team and the allocation of salary cap, you can IMO draw this conclusion: we paid Donald and Ramsey huge bucks for game altering plays: OPI against Dallas, Donald's sack/fumble/recovery against Allen, Ramsey blowing up the 3rd and short screen to Golden Taint - but this defense is not constructed to win games (against NFL caliber offenses). It's constructed to limit teams while the offense gets going and then slam the door shut with big plays. Despite having Donald and Ramsey, this defense should not outplay the offense. Not with Goff, Kupp, Woods, Reynolds, Jefferson, Higbee, Everett, Whitworth and our RBs.

Fifth, we will have a new punter next year. Or at least I hope. He's 2nd in average punt yards, but 16th in net yards. Too many touchbacks and some random short punts this year - we are too good a team to pay a punter for mediocre performance, and net yards are the most important stat.

 

[badnews]

Fifth, we will have a new punter next year. Or at least I hope. He's 2nd in average punt yards, but 16th in net yards. Too many touchbacks and some random short punts this year - we are too good a team to pay a punter for mediocre performance, and net yards are the most important stat.

There's a few things I agree with, a few I don't and then there is this one that I definitely don't agree with.
Sure, Hekker is well paid.
If you are right and our D can't win games and our O has been figured out and won't work against good defenses, why in the hell would you think letting Hekker go would help us? If we are as bad as you're suggesting, having a great punter capable of turning a game around with his arm or leg is a must.
When Hekker gets so few opportunities, its going to be tougher to get the consistency that's necessary for the Punt unit to be great. Hekks the one part of our STs that isn't a problem. If we need to move away from someone, maybe its Bonamego? I'm not happy with our coverage units on punts or KOs.

 

[Allen2McVay]

Third, run defense. Why? How? This was the worst running team in the NFL and, even if you take away Jones' random scrambles, they were pretty effective on the ground.

Thought the run defense was good. But for Gallman’s long run, the Giants’ backs averaged just 3.5 yards-per-carry.

 

[FrantikRam]

There's a few things I agree with, a few I don't and then there is this one that I definitely don't agree with.
Sure, Hekker is well paid.
If you are right and our D can't win games and our O has been figured out and won't work against good defenses, why in the hell would you think letting Hekker go would help us? If we are as bad as you're suggesting, having a great punter capable of turning a game around with his arm or leg is a must.
When Hekker gets so few opportunities, its going to be tougher to get the consistency that's necessary for the Punt unit to be great. Hekks the one part of our STs that isn't a problem. If we need to move away from someone, maybe its Bonamego? I'm not happy with our coverage units on punts or KOs.

Well, we're talking after this season. Also, I'm not saying the offense is bad - I'm wondering (and hoping it's not the case) if there are reasons for our offense staying in the short/intermediate and I'm hoping we can make adjustments.

Not punting a week ago is another reason to dump Hekker. No need to pay a punter that much.

Finally, if he turns it around, I might be okay with him staying - but he's been thoroughly average and he makes too much for that.

 

[badnews]

Well, we're talking after this season. Also, I'm not saying the offense is bad - I'm wondering (and hoping it's not the case) if there are reasons for our offense staying in the short/intermediate and I'm hoping we can make adjustments.

Fair enough, but I hope we hold onto him. We will need him if we are a contender or if we struggle. The only way he is replaceable is if we are too good to punt much but not good enough to contend for a Lombardi.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Thought the run defense was good. But for Gallman’s long run, the Giants’ backs averaged just 3.5 yards-per-carry.

And by the time Gallman started ripping off big gains the defense was gassed from too many 3 and outs by the offense.

in this game I’d say by looking at the score the defense did what it should against a low scoring team, but the Giants drove the field and ate up the clock too many times.

The other issues is obviously the offense and getting owned by the Giants front seven. These, ‘Let’s get some love for the Oline’ posts are very premature. By game four they looked like crap. Good teams cannot rely on scheme to cover weaknesses every week, without other strategies on the ready.

one Veteran stud on the Oline isn’t enough We just saw that.

 

[Merlin]

Well, I was starting to feel good about the Oline but what some suspected may happen, has happened. A defensive coordinator figures out how to defend against the Rams and when forced to play a different type of offense the offensive line did not hold up well. Goff was under a lot of pressure and the run game was not as powerful as its

This Giants game looks like another template similar to the 6 man fronts two years ago we may have just seen what to expect from every game here on out.

Suddenly the upcoming Washington and Chicago games don’t look so easy. I hope McVay has an answer this time around.

The Giants beat us in the trenches on both sides for a lot of the afternoon. Defensively their front seven obviously practiced their asses off with the screen game and were all over them, the prob was McVay kept running the screens they were keying on. I try not to make everything a "play call" complaint but he really did need to scrub his screen game or change it up, and it's also possible they're seeing a tell somewhere in how someone is lining up. Their front deserves some cred too tbh they're big and strong up front and they played a full game.

Remember when we were that bad team that would stand up and play a full 60 vs a good opponent? That's what happened here IMO. Not too worried about it and prior to the game we did know they had some talent on the DL. If we played them again this week our passing game would probably blow them up. So I'm over it and moving on tbh.

My biggest concern at this point is our relative inability to answer for QB movement and in particular the runs. That is going to need to be fixed if we want to run the table in the division.

 

[Ram65]

Obo, Hollins. Burgess, Gaines and Polite all got more playing time. Could have been because the offense did control the ball as in the other games. It was still interesting and something to watch. Jefferson only had 3 snaps IIRC which is very surprising. Big trend downward for him.

The Giants came in 0-3 but, they didn't play that way on defense. Sometimes 0-3 teams know they have to show up and not get embarrassed as they were in the previous week. I'm sure the Giants coaches got them motived this week. I don't if Goff was confused or the RW wasn't open but, the results were less than perfect. Giants held the Rams running game in check which had something to do with it. Let's see how they rebound against the Washington Football Team.

 

[MachS]

Because when the run game is shut down the offense becomes one dimensional. Extend the play? Goff is not Wilson, Rodgers, or Mahomes. He is a rhythm pocket passer. Check down? Listen to McVay CONSTANTLY preach about protecting the football—preach about staying within the structure of the play—that is how he is being coached. 5-10 yard passes? Bro, that's what the vast majority of his completions are, due to scheme; he only had a 9.8ypa due to all of the YAC by receivers. It was McVays play calling that was out of sync and not accounting for what the opposing defense is doing. Goff isn't Peyton Manning. They are given 2 or 3 plays in the huddle and those are the options, period. Do you think he can adjust the scheme on the fly better than McVay? Does he even have that authority?

Dude extending the play yes, like moving and being comfortable in the pocket like Brees or Brady do, moving up and around, hanging in there to buy extra time. Like Goff did on that 3rd down first drive when he completed the pass to Brown on 3rd and 8. He got flustered after that and was literally checking down when there was no pressure on him. And we should still be able to win games without a running game. He shouldn't need 150yards rushing to be successful. Why don't people understand that? You know there will be games against actual good teams when the running game is shut down right?? So we're just going to accept losses in those games lmao? How about go make some plays when coach doesn't scheme people wide open on a silver platter. When hes forced to read a defense and anticipate he just struggles, and there were multiple wide open WRs he missed man. We saw it in the SB clear as day.

Thats why McVay gets all the credit and the talking heads don't give Goff the respect many think he deserves. He has elite arm talent but isnt an elite QB. Reading defenses, throwing accurately under pressure, anticipating people coming open, and playing well in games where you dont have a decisive scheme advantage, he's just not consistent enough. The Bills defense is twice as good yet he plays far worse against the giants. No excuse for his inconsistency IMO.

 

[tempests]

Dude extending the play yes, like moving and being comfortable in the pocket like Brees or Brady do, moving up and around, hanging in there to buy extra time. Like Goff did on that 3rd down first drive when he completed the pass to Brown on 3rd and 8. He got flustered after that and was literally checking down when there was no pressure on him. And we should still be able to win games without a running game. He shouldn't need 150yards rushing to be successful. Why don't people understand that? You know there will be games against actual good teams when the running game is shut down right?? So we're just going to accept losses in those games lmao? How about go make some plays when coach doesn't scheme people wide open on a silver platter. When hes forced to read a defense and anticipate he just struggles, and there were multiple wide open WRs he missed man. We saw it in the SB clear as day.

Thats why McVay gets all the credit and the talking heads don't give Goff the respect many think he deserves. He has elite arm talent but isnt an elite QB. Reading defenses, throwing accurately under pressure, anticipating people coming open, and playing well in games where you dont have a decisive scheme advantage, he's just not consistent enough. The Bills defense is twice as good yet he plays far worse against the giants. No excuse for his inconsistency IMO.

Not much came to the Rams on a silver platter yesterday as the Giants made them work for everything they got. McVay's scheme is only as good as his players make it look.

Sure it would be nice if Goff could make more on off-schedule plays but that's never been his strength. Assuming his pocket presence will continue to improve as he's still on an upward trajectory. For now, have to accept him as he is. High efficiency passer who communicates with McVay very well and runs his offense the way he wants it to be run.