Mikey Ram
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...b-index-week-15-jared-goffcarson-wentz-debate
QB Index, Week 15: Jared Goff-Carson Wentz debate
Nearly three years after the 2016 NFL Draft, the Rams and Eagles wouldn't change a thing. The debate between Jared Goff and Carson Wentz had no wrong answer, although it certainly didn't look that way two years ago at this time.
Goff's career trajectory is yet another lesson in allowing players to mature before removing hot takes from the oven. It's no surprise that a 22-year-old quarterback didn't thrive under Jeff Fisher, but I am struck by how these two quarterbacks' early paths have diverged since Wentz tore his left ACL in a shootout with Goff's Rams in Los Angeles this week one year ago.
Sunday's rematch was supposed to be a chance for Wentz to put that memory behind him, but NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport reported on Thursday that tests revealed Wentz has a fracture in his back, which makes him unlikely to play this week and could keep him out the rest of the season.
Wentz has struggled with injury luck dating back to his final season at North Dakota State, when he suffered a broken wrist. The bigger concern after 40 NFL starts remains his accuracy. His completion percentage went up this season (from 60.2 to 69.6) coming off his knee injury, although that was largely due to a dink-and-dunk Eagles offense that failed to push the ball down the field. Wentz still looks like a star, though, and mixed in some of the jaw-dropping plays that had him rated as a strong MVP candidate a year ago. He's among the toughest quarterbacks to bring down and completes high-degree-of-difficulty throws. But too often this year, Wentz made poor decisions or missed routine passes, with the back issues, which Rapoport says date back to October, as a potential explanation.
Anytime there was real concern about Wentz this season, he would do something dazzling, like lead the Eagles to 17 fourth-quarter points last week in Dallas. If the Eagles' defense had stood tall late against the Cowboys, Wentz could have enjoyed a signature victory made especially impressive by the fact that it came playing through injury. Instead, it was another near miss for a star-crossed Eagles defense.
Wentz is ranked No. 13 in the QB Index, which is roughly where Goff stood a season ago when Wentz suffered his injury. The Sean McVay protege has taken another clear step in his development and is ranked No. 6 so far this season, even after his rough performance last Sunday night in Chicago. Wondering what Goff's career might be like without McVay is missing the point. In Goff, McVay has found a pocket quarterback who can hit receivers in stride and anticipate throws beautifully to execute the Rams' precision offense.
Goff doesn't have the athleticism or the theoretical upside of Wentz, but Goff is naturally more accurate, and he hasn't missed any time since being elevated to QB1 as a rookie. Goff's career has followed a steady incline and he's closer in age to Baker Mayfield than he is to Wentz, who is almost two years older.
I don't want to be a prisoner of the moment and say Goff was the right pick; it also would have been unfair to say Goff was a bust two years ago. It's fair to say, though, that the analysts who backed Goff heading into the 2016 draft feel vindicated, while the Wentz hive can point to his highs of 2017 and still support their man. It's also fair to note that Goff will be the one on the field Sunday when the Eagles face the Rams, trying to secure a playoff bye, with his ascent potentially reaching all the way to the Super Bowl.
1
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Patrick Mahomes
QB
Chiefs
It's hard to imagine Mahomes facing a tougher test -- mentally and physically -- in the AFC playoffs than he did against Baltimore last week. That was an enormous test to pass.
2018 stats: 13 games | 66.8 pct | 4,300 pass yds | 8.9 ypa | 43 pass TD | 11 INT | 235 rush yds | 2 rush TD
2
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Drew Brees
QB
Saints
It's not exactly time to panic in New Orleans, but the Saints should be concerned that only the Cardinals have averaged fewer yards per game over the last three weeks.
2018 stats: 13 games | 75.7 pct | 3,463 pass yds | 8.3 ypa | 31 pass TD | 4 INT | 25 rush yds | 4 rush TD
3
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Philip Rivers
QB
Chargers
The Chargers' lowest yardage total of the season against Cincinnati coincided with one of the weakest performances of the year by the offensive line.
2018 stats: 13 games | 69.4 pct | 3,638 pass yds | 8.9 ypa | 29 pass TD | 6 INT | 6 rush yds | 0 rush TD
4
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Andrew Luck
QB
Colts
Luck's season has been defined by short timing throws, yet no team is better on third-and-10 or more. You can have it all!
2018 stats: 13 games | 67.7 pct | 3,759 pass yds | 7.1 ypa | 34 pass TD | 13 INT | 98 rush yds | 0 rush TD
5
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Aaron Rodgers
QB
Packers
It would be on brand for Rodgers to play his best month of football after Mike McCarthy's firing as a "told you so" to the rest of the league. He has a 23:1 TD:INT ratio and his highest YPA since 2014 in a relative down season.
2018 stats: 13 games | 62.0 pct | 3,700 pass yds | 7.5 ypa | 23 pass TD | 1 INT | 212 rush yds | 0 rush TD
6
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Jared Goff
QB
Rams
My two lowest-graded games for Goff on the season were the last two, with his trademark accuracy deserting him even in the indoor environs of Detroit.
2018 stats: 13 games | 64.4 pct | 3,934 pass yds | 8.6 ypa | 27 pass TD | 11 INT | 91 rush yds | 1 rush TD
7
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Tom Brady
QB
Patriots
Brady's performance in Miami looked shot straight out 2016-2017, with downfield darts aplenty and big performances by Rob Gronkowski and Julian Edelman. With Josh Gordon improving every week and a healthy backfield, the talent around Brady is helping him reach his highest ranking of the season.
2018 stats: 13 games | 65.6 pct | 3,700 pass yds | 7.8 ypa | 23 pass TD | 8 INT | 35 rush yds | 2 rush TD
8
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Matt Ryan
QB
Falcons
Remember when people were (foolishly) saying that Matty Ice was playing better than during his MVP season? It's another solid year in Ryan's borderline Hall of Fameresume, but no one is saying that anymore.
2018 stats: 13 games | 70.5 pct | 4,076 pass yds | 8.1 ypa | 28 pass TD | 6 INT | 101 rush yds | 2 rush TD
9
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Russell Wilson
QB
Seahawks
Wilson has shown improved movement within the pocket all season and has the uncanny knack to make a game-winning play like his 40-yard run against Minnesota even during a dreadful passing night where he threw for only 72 yards.
2018 stats: 13 games | 65.6 pct | 2,788 pass yds | 8.1 ypa | 29 pass TD | 6 INT | 306 rush yds | 0 rush TD
10
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Ben Roethlisberger
QB
Steelers
This season is the inverse of so many Big Ben campaigns where the eye test and play-to-play grades were superior to his traditional stats.
2018 stats: 13 games | 67.0 pct | 4,227 pass yds | 7.7 ypa | 28 pass TD | 13 INT | 94 rush yds | 3 rush TD
11
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Kirk Cousins
QB
Vikings
Cousins was my No. 7 quarterback at midseason, so his overall grade hasn't collapsed. But three of his four worst games of the season have come in the last month and he was absolutely seeing ghosts and hesitant to pull the trigger on open throws in Seattle.
2018 stats: 13 games | 70.6 pct | 3,698 pass yds | 7.1 ypa | 24 pass TD | 9 INT | 108 rush yds | 1 rush TD
12
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Cam Newton
QB
Panthers
The recurrence of Newton's shoulder issues, so soon after his most recent surgery in 2017, raises questions about his long-term health just as he was settling in to an offense that fit him.
2018 stats: 13 games | 68.8 pct | 3,264 pass yds | 7.4 ypa | 24 pass TD | 12 INT | 473 rush yds | 4 rush TD
13
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Carson Wentz
QB
Eagles
Another abbreviated season would be a bummer for Wentz, but this was a mostly positive post-ACL-surgery season for the third-year pro.
2018 stats: 11 games | 69.6 pct | 3,074 pass yds | 7.7 ypa | 21 pass TD | 7 INT | 93 rush yds | 0 rush TD
14
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Baker Mayfield
QB
Browns
His first half against Carolina ranks with any half of football by a quarterback this season. The legend Evan Silva's Twitter followers would take Mayfield long-term over Wentz, Goff and Deshaun Watson and I can't even disagree.
2018 stats: 11 games | 64.4 pct | 2,877 pass yds | 7.7 ypa | 19 pass TD | 10 INT | 109 rush yds | 0 rush TD
15
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Deshaun Watson
QB
Texans
The Colts did a nice job exposing Houston's faulty communication up front with stunts and blitzes. Expect Houston's playoff opponents to do the same.
2018 stats: 13 games | 66.9 pct | 3,298 pass yds | 8.2 ypa | 22 pass TD | 9 INT | 410 rush yds | 2 rush TD
- By Gregg Rosenthal
- Around The NFL Editor
- Published: Dec. 13, 2018 at 12:15 p.m.
- Updated: Dec. 13, 2018 at 02:09 p.m.
QB Index, Week 15: Jared Goff-Carson Wentz debate
Nearly three years after the 2016 NFL Draft, the Rams and Eagles wouldn't change a thing. The debate between Jared Goff and Carson Wentz had no wrong answer, although it certainly didn't look that way two years ago at this time.
Goff's career trajectory is yet another lesson in allowing players to mature before removing hot takes from the oven. It's no surprise that a 22-year-old quarterback didn't thrive under Jeff Fisher, but I am struck by how these two quarterbacks' early paths have diverged since Wentz tore his left ACL in a shootout with Goff's Rams in Los Angeles this week one year ago.
Sunday's rematch was supposed to be a chance for Wentz to put that memory behind him, but NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport reported on Thursday that tests revealed Wentz has a fracture in his back, which makes him unlikely to play this week and could keep him out the rest of the season.
Wentz has struggled with injury luck dating back to his final season at North Dakota State, when he suffered a broken wrist. The bigger concern after 40 NFL starts remains his accuracy. His completion percentage went up this season (from 60.2 to 69.6) coming off his knee injury, although that was largely due to a dink-and-dunk Eagles offense that failed to push the ball down the field. Wentz still looks like a star, though, and mixed in some of the jaw-dropping plays that had him rated as a strong MVP candidate a year ago. He's among the toughest quarterbacks to bring down and completes high-degree-of-difficulty throws. But too often this year, Wentz made poor decisions or missed routine passes, with the back issues, which Rapoport says date back to October, as a potential explanation.
Anytime there was real concern about Wentz this season, he would do something dazzling, like lead the Eagles to 17 fourth-quarter points last week in Dallas. If the Eagles' defense had stood tall late against the Cowboys, Wentz could have enjoyed a signature victory made especially impressive by the fact that it came playing through injury. Instead, it was another near miss for a star-crossed Eagles defense.
Wentz is ranked No. 13 in the QB Index, which is roughly where Goff stood a season ago when Wentz suffered his injury. The Sean McVay protege has taken another clear step in his development and is ranked No. 6 so far this season, even after his rough performance last Sunday night in Chicago. Wondering what Goff's career might be like without McVay is missing the point. In Goff, McVay has found a pocket quarterback who can hit receivers in stride and anticipate throws beautifully to execute the Rams' precision offense.
Goff doesn't have the athleticism or the theoretical upside of Wentz, but Goff is naturally more accurate, and he hasn't missed any time since being elevated to QB1 as a rookie. Goff's career has followed a steady incline and he's closer in age to Baker Mayfield than he is to Wentz, who is almost two years older.
I don't want to be a prisoner of the moment and say Goff was the right pick; it also would have been unfair to say Goff was a bust two years ago. It's fair to say, though, that the analysts who backed Goff heading into the 2016 draft feel vindicated, while the Wentz hive can point to his highs of 2017 and still support their man. It's also fair to note that Goff will be the one on the field Sunday when the Eagles face the Rams, trying to secure a playoff bye, with his ascent potentially reaching all the way to the Super Bowl.
1
Patrick Mahomes
QB
Chiefs
It's hard to imagine Mahomes facing a tougher test -- mentally and physically -- in the AFC playoffs than he did against Baltimore last week. That was an enormous test to pass.
2018 stats: 13 games | 66.8 pct | 4,300 pass yds | 8.9 ypa | 43 pass TD | 11 INT | 235 rush yds | 2 rush TD
2
Drew Brees
QB
Saints
It's not exactly time to panic in New Orleans, but the Saints should be concerned that only the Cardinals have averaged fewer yards per game over the last three weeks.
2018 stats: 13 games | 75.7 pct | 3,463 pass yds | 8.3 ypa | 31 pass TD | 4 INT | 25 rush yds | 4 rush TD
3
Philip Rivers
QB
Chargers
The Chargers' lowest yardage total of the season against Cincinnati coincided with one of the weakest performances of the year by the offensive line.
2018 stats: 13 games | 69.4 pct | 3,638 pass yds | 8.9 ypa | 29 pass TD | 6 INT | 6 rush yds | 0 rush TD
4
Andrew Luck
QB
Colts
Luck's season has been defined by short timing throws, yet no team is better on third-and-10 or more. You can have it all!
2018 stats: 13 games | 67.7 pct | 3,759 pass yds | 7.1 ypa | 34 pass TD | 13 INT | 98 rush yds | 0 rush TD
5
Aaron Rodgers
QB
Packers
It would be on brand for Rodgers to play his best month of football after Mike McCarthy's firing as a "told you so" to the rest of the league. He has a 23:1 TD:INT ratio and his highest YPA since 2014 in a relative down season.
2018 stats: 13 games | 62.0 pct | 3,700 pass yds | 7.5 ypa | 23 pass TD | 1 INT | 212 rush yds | 0 rush TD
6
Jared Goff
QB
Rams
My two lowest-graded games for Goff on the season were the last two, with his trademark accuracy deserting him even in the indoor environs of Detroit.
2018 stats: 13 games | 64.4 pct | 3,934 pass yds | 8.6 ypa | 27 pass TD | 11 INT | 91 rush yds | 1 rush TD
7
Tom Brady
QB
Patriots
Brady's performance in Miami looked shot straight out 2016-2017, with downfield darts aplenty and big performances by Rob Gronkowski and Julian Edelman. With Josh Gordon improving every week and a healthy backfield, the talent around Brady is helping him reach his highest ranking of the season.
2018 stats: 13 games | 65.6 pct | 3,700 pass yds | 7.8 ypa | 23 pass TD | 8 INT | 35 rush yds | 2 rush TD
8
Matt Ryan
QB
Falcons
Remember when people were (foolishly) saying that Matty Ice was playing better than during his MVP season? It's another solid year in Ryan's borderline Hall of Fameresume, but no one is saying that anymore.
2018 stats: 13 games | 70.5 pct | 4,076 pass yds | 8.1 ypa | 28 pass TD | 6 INT | 101 rush yds | 2 rush TD
9
Russell Wilson
QB
Seahawks
Wilson has shown improved movement within the pocket all season and has the uncanny knack to make a game-winning play like his 40-yard run against Minnesota even during a dreadful passing night where he threw for only 72 yards.
2018 stats: 13 games | 65.6 pct | 2,788 pass yds | 8.1 ypa | 29 pass TD | 6 INT | 306 rush yds | 0 rush TD
10
Ben Roethlisberger
QB
Steelers
This season is the inverse of so many Big Ben campaigns where the eye test and play-to-play grades were superior to his traditional stats.
2018 stats: 13 games | 67.0 pct | 4,227 pass yds | 7.7 ypa | 28 pass TD | 13 INT | 94 rush yds | 3 rush TD
11
Kirk Cousins
QB
Vikings
Cousins was my No. 7 quarterback at midseason, so his overall grade hasn't collapsed. But three of his four worst games of the season have come in the last month and he was absolutely seeing ghosts and hesitant to pull the trigger on open throws in Seattle.
2018 stats: 13 games | 70.6 pct | 3,698 pass yds | 7.1 ypa | 24 pass TD | 9 INT | 108 rush yds | 1 rush TD
12
Cam Newton
QB
Panthers
The recurrence of Newton's shoulder issues, so soon after his most recent surgery in 2017, raises questions about his long-term health just as he was settling in to an offense that fit him.
2018 stats: 13 games | 68.8 pct | 3,264 pass yds | 7.4 ypa | 24 pass TD | 12 INT | 473 rush yds | 4 rush TD
13
Carson Wentz
QB
Eagles
Another abbreviated season would be a bummer for Wentz, but this was a mostly positive post-ACL-surgery season for the third-year pro.
2018 stats: 11 games | 69.6 pct | 3,074 pass yds | 7.7 ypa | 21 pass TD | 7 INT | 93 rush yds | 0 rush TD
14
Baker Mayfield
QB
Browns
His first half against Carolina ranks with any half of football by a quarterback this season. The legend Evan Silva's Twitter followers would take Mayfield long-term over Wentz, Goff and Deshaun Watson and I can't even disagree.
2018 stats: 11 games | 64.4 pct | 2,877 pass yds | 7.7 ypa | 19 pass TD | 10 INT | 109 rush yds | 0 rush TD
15
Deshaun Watson
QB
Texans
The Colts did a nice job exposing Houston's faulty communication up front with stunts and blitzes. Expect Houston's playoff opponents to do the same.
2018 stats: 13 games | 66.9 pct | 3,298 pass yds | 8.2 ypa | 22 pass TD | 9 INT | 410 rush yds | 2 rush TD
Farr Be It
Hall of Fame
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Carson Wentz seems like a good kid, but I think his style of play will give him a very short NFL career. Fractured vertebrae? Damn. Even with Goff's faults and his seemingly way too skinny body, he hasn't missed a game in his NFL career. Sure it's early, but in the same times span, Carson has had two season ending injuries.
Availability, grasshoppers, availability.,
Availability, grasshoppers, availability.,
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- FaulkSF
Farr Be It
Hall of Fame
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Translation of Media narrative: :rant:"Now that Wentz looks like he is going to be spending most of his career on and off of IR, don't hold his unavailability against him!!! Not faiiiiir!! It's perfectly sane if you'd rather have him, sitting on IR, rather than Goff leading his team to 11-2.
However, you must have been NUTS! to have done anything but mock and declare 2016 Goff a bust, joke, wuss, and fawn over the memory of what was 2016 Wentz!
...cuz, he's kinda skinny, and I don't have the courage of my convictions to take a stand on anything, cuz I am a beta male that gets paralyzed unless there is cultural approval of the positions I take.
Gosh, thanks for letting me know that seeing the obvious is "also fair" rather than the DELUSIONAL position you apparently feel more comfortable with, of supporting this guy, (photo courtesy of @-X- )….
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Wait what? Like... they didn't tell Wentz about it... but they told other players? I'm confused by this tweet.
But yikes, that's not good.
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Eagle fans are saying this is a guy that’s just a hockey blogger/reporter so are questioning the validity of this story. But I believe the guy is implying that the team found the problem and didn’t inform Wentz about it. Past Eagles players are coming forward and saying that’s believable about the team and medical staff based on their experiences. One of the most common comments by fans is they think Wentz knew about it but wanted to stay on the field. I doubt we know everything about the situation and may never know.
LesBaker
Mr. Savant
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I call bullshit on this.
I think the Eagles FO is completely concerned about their injury prone QBOF flailing about and getting hurt again.
Who wouldn't be worried?
If this was a situation where Goff was having a career like Wentz so far (and the Rams winning the SB with a backup) wouldn't all of us be concerned? If Wentz was playing like Goff has been the last two years and Goff was injured wouldn't Rams fan be freaking out? Wouldn't we all be saying "they picked the wrong fucking guy!!!!". I think so.
And I predict he will have more, and will be out of the league in 2-3 more years and possibly grasping at backup roles.
This has RG3 Part 2 written all over it. He may last longer but not very much longer.
TexasRam
Legend
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To all the Carson’s, Deshaun’s, Lamar’s, Dak’s, Truninsky’s, and all you other QB’s who think you can have a long career in the NFL. Stop Running down the field. Learn how to throw from the pocket.
The NFL belongs to the pocket passers.
Scrambling is fine. Running down the field to win games will eventually catch up to you and your franchise.
Be a Peyton, or a Drew or a Tom or a Jared.
The NFL belongs to the pocket passers.
Scrambling is fine. Running down the field to win games will eventually catch up to you and your franchise.
Be a Peyton, or a Drew or a Tom or a Jared.
OC--LeftCoast
Agent Provocateur
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So now it’s 4 consecutive seasons (including the only year he started at D2) that Wentz has endured a fairly significant injury
This ridiculous debate is over, Rams got it right on 65% (and that’s being conservative) of this board got it wrong, just the facts boys
@jrry32 among a few others knew all along
This ridiculous debate is over, Rams got it right on 65% (and that’s being conservative) of this board got it wrong, just the facts boys
@jrry32 among a few others knew all along
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- 5,822
- Name
- Dave
The Rams drafted the QB with the most upside and a proven track record of being durable, the QB for their future. Philly drafted the QB that needed less polish, but also had a lower ceiling and hadnt played enough to prove much in college.
TSFH Fan
Epic Music Guy
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He did start all 16 games as a rookie, even though he missed most of pre-season
I don't wish the guy any harm. I'm happy we got Goff and Wentz success never bothered me.
I feel bad for the dude, just one injury after another
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https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...arson-wentzs-stress-injury-evolved-over-time/
Doug Pederson didn’t rule the quarterback out for this week. He said Wentz will travel to Los Angeles and be listed as questionable for Sunday night’s game against the Rams.
Doug Pederson didn’t rule the quarterback out for this week. He said Wentz will travel to Los Angeles and be listed as questionable for Sunday night’s game against the Rams.
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That makes it harder to game plan for the Rams, obviously. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Carson in there on Sunday night. If they lose this game the Eagles season is over anyway.
