We Need to Make a Bold Move - QB

[Elmgrovegnome]

I agree with you Jrry but I think Fisher believes Mannion is his QB of the future. Fisher isn't exactly a QB guru and he doesn't have a strong willed OC telling him that they need a better QB.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

My early thoughts on the guys I've seen thus far:
First Tier
1. Jared Goff QB Cal - Top 10
2. Paxton Lynch QB Memphis - Top 10

Second Tier
1. Connor Cook QB Michigan State - 2nd
2. Carson Wentz QB North Dakota State - 2nd

Third Tier
1. Cardale Jones QB Ohio State - 3rd/4th
2. Jacoby Brissett QB North Carolina State - 4th

Fourth Tier
1. Christian Hackenberg QB Penn State - 5th/6th
2. Cody Kessler QB Southern Cal - 6th
3. Dak Prescott QB Mississippi State - 6th

Fifth Tier
1. Trevone Boykin QB Texas Christian - 6th/7th
2. Brandon Doughty QB Western Kentucky - 7th

Both of the second tier QBs could become first rounders in my book. With Cook, I need to see more games this year. He needs to show more consistent accuracy (better footwork would help) and less bad decisions under pressure. With Wentz, he needs to have a strong post-season. Show improved lower body mechanics and that he can handle the NFL game mentally.

In one game this season Hackenburg was on his toes and making great throws. He was more mobile and looked like a top QB. That was against Illinois. They have no pass rush. He looked great. I no longer see him as the first rounder he was once touted as but I don't see a fifth or sixth either. He is a tease and a game like the Illinois game will make someone think he can do it full time.

I think if Fisher likes an early round QB it would be Connor Cook. If he likes a late rounder it is Prescott as a change of pace backup to Mannion. Sort of he Seneca Wallace type of backup that you can let run instead of being afraid he will throw an interception.

I don't think Cardale Jones is draftable. He has not been good this year and he is dumber than Kaepernick.

 

[Stel]

Tend to agree with Elmgrove.

My leaning today is for Wentz in the second round. I think he has a chance to be a solid byt not elite starter in the NFL. Think he could be good in a Gurley first offense.

 

[jrry32]

In one game this season Hackenburg was on his toes and making great throws. He was more mobile and looked like a top QB. That was against Illinois. They have no pass rush. He looked great. I no longer see him as the first rounder he was once touted as but I don't see a fifth or sixth either. He is a tease and a game like the Illinois game will make someone think he can do it full time.

I think if Fisher likes an early round QB it would be Connor Cook. If he likes a late rounder it is Prescott as a change of pace backup to Mannion. Sort of he Seneca Wallace type of backup that you can let run instead of being afraid he will throw an interception.

I don't think Cardale Jones is draftable. He has not been good this year and he is dumber than Kaepernick.

I'm not projecting where they'll go. I'm giving my grade on them. Hackenberg isn't a guy I'd take before the 5th round. You're hoping for a miracle with him. Has all the arm but looks absolutely awful under pressure. He seems broken to me. You'll need years and hope that you can rehab him...I don't think it'll happen. But he has the upside to be worth a flier in the final 3 rounds.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Fisher likes Connor Cook. He reminds me a lot of Cutler. Doesn't have the cannon that Cutler had but has a lot of the same problems. Streaky passer that throws way too often off his back-foot and makes terrible decisions under duress...but also makes a lot of gorgeous throws, is deceptively athletic, and is a competitive gamer that ran a pro style offense.

As for Cardale, I'd still draft him. I don't think he's as heinous as he's been made out to be. He's a poor fit for Meyer's system and needs to speed things up mentally. However, he's not even started a season worth of games yet so it shouldn't surprise that he's raw. His athleticism at his size is awesome, he has a huge arm, and is actually a good pure thrower for how raw he is. The big thing with him is work habits. I wouldn't take him unless I felt confident he's willing to come in and put in the work. Huge project but he's got monster upside and unlike Logan Thomas, I don't think he's played enough where you can safely throw in the towel on him improving.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I'm not projecting where they'll go. I'm giving my grade on them. Hackenberg isn't a guy I'd take before the 5th round. You're hoping for a miracle with him. Has all the arm but looks absolutely awful under pressure. He seems broken to me. You'll need years and hope that you can rehab him...I don't think it'll happen. But he has the upside to be worth a flier in the final 3 rounds.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Fisher likes Connor Cook. He reminds me a lot of Cutler. Doesn't have the cannon that Cutler had but has a lot of the same problems. Streaky passer that throws way too often off his back-foot and makes terrible decisions under duress...but also makes a lot of gorgeous throws, is deceptively athletic, and is a competitive gamer that ran a pro style offense.

As for Cardale, I'd still draft him. I don't think he's as heinous as he's been made out to be. He's a poor fit for Meyer's system and needs to speed things up mentally. However, he's not even started a season worth of games yet so it shouldn't surprise that he's raw. His athleticism at his size is awesome, he has a huge arm, and is actually a good pure thrower for how raw he is. The big thing with him is work habits. I wouldn't take him unless I felt confident he's willing to come in and put in the work. Huge project but he's got monster upside and unlike Logan Thomas, I don't think he's played enough where you can safely throw in the towel on him improving.

I wouldn't draft Hackenberg at this point either. I think his problem is that he has no football instincts. His play is purely manufactured due to his intelligence and his arm. He makes bad decisions too often and I know he has been hammered with a bad OLine and young receivers running poor routes but he leaves too many plays on the field. I don't know what the sudden change was with Illinois. He regressed the next week in Chicago.

I think Fisher looks for a smart guy that won't sscrew up. Cook fits the bill, as did Mannion. Fisher plays offense fearing what might go wrong instead of seeing possibilities.

Cardale summed himself up with his famous quote, "We didn't come here to play school, we came to play football". That was a flippant remark from a guy who doesn't take life seriously enough and doesn't consider the ramifications of his actions. Every Good NFL player works at his craft. If he doesn't he isn't in the league long. I hear that and think that this kid only wants to be serious about the parts that are fun. A kid that doesn't like working his brain or challenging his mind. And a kid that likes to do only what he wants to do. I don't think Cardale is just a bit fit for Urban Meyers offense, he is a bad fit for any offense. His Redzone struggles reflect his troubles with seeing the field. He has a good OLine with a great RB and he struggles when things tighten up. Not impressed.

 

[jrry32]

I wouldn't draft Hackenberg at this point either. I think his problem is that he has no football instincts. His play is purely manufactured due to his intelligence and his arm. He makes bad decisions too often and I know he has been hammered with a bad OLine and young receivers running poor routes but he leaves too many plays on the field. I don't know what the sudden change was with Illinois. He regressed the next week in Chicago.

I think Fisher looks for a smart guy that won't sscrew up. Cook fits the bill, as did Mannion. Fisher plays offense fearing what might go wrong instead of seeing possibilities.

Cardale summed himself up with his famous quote, "We didn't come here to play school, we came to play football". That was a flippant remark from a guy who doesn't take life seriously enough and doesn't consider the ramifications of his actions. Every Good NFL player works at his craft. If he doesn't he isn't in the league long. I hear that and think that this kid only wants to be serious about the parts that are fun. A kid that doesn't like working his brain or challenging his mind. And a kid that likes to do only what he wants to do. I don't think Cardale is just a bit fit for Urban Meyers offense, he is a bad fit for any offense. His Redzone struggles reflect his troubles with seeing the field. He has a good OLine with a great RB and he struggles when things tighten up. Not impressed.

Eh, I don't think either of them fit that bill. But that's neither here nor there.

As for Cardale, he said that years ago. Guy might have matured. And let's be honest, he was dumb enough to say it on twitter but he's certainly not the only college football player that thinks that.

 

[Memento]

As for Cardale, he said that years ago. Guy might have matured. And let's be honest, he was dumb enough to say it on twitter but he's certainly not the only college football player that thinks that.

I hear that one of the reasons why Cardale stayed in school was to get his degree. He didn't take it seriously before, but he has seriously matured and raised his GPA a lot. Kids like him sometimes mature.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I hear that one of the reasons why Cardale stayed in school was to get his degree. He didn't take it seriously before, but he has seriously matured and raised his GPA a lot. Kids like him sometimes mature.

Or he realizes that he is not a pro prospect and Meyer told him as much and said you better study or you leave here with nothing. Or Urban took it upon himself and said no grades no play. Lots of things are possible. I just don't see how a guy who lost his starting job because he couldn't find the end zone is a third round prospect but that is just me. The idea was the Jones was still going to play and when the team reached the red zone they pull him in favor of Barrett. Barrett ran the offense much better and was a more accurate passer, yet nobody is calling him a third round QB.

My evals are much different than Jerry's on certain players. We agree on many others too but over the years we get stuck on certain guys. We are on totally different ends on this one. It will be interesting to see what the NFL GMs think come draft day.

 

[jrry32]

Or he realizes that he is not a pro prospect and Meyer told him as much and said you better study or you leave here with nothing. Or Urban took it upon himself and said no grades no play. Lots of things are possible. I just don't see how a guy who lost his starting job because he couldn't find the end zone is a third round prospect but that is just me. The idea was the Jones was still going to play and when the team reached the red zone they pull him in favor of Barrett. Barrett ran the offense much better and was a more accurate passer, yet nobody is calling him a third round QB.

My evals are much different than Jerry's on certain players. We agree on many others too but over the years we get stuck on certain guys. We are on totally different ends on this one. It will be interesting to see what the NFL GMs think come draft day.

That's because Barrett has a game that fits Meyer's offense but doesn't really fit the NFL.

After seeing what he did last year and watching a couple games of his this year, I don't think he's been a disaster. I think he's not a fit in that system. I wonder about his character because that's make or break for me. But the talent is there and this is guy that fits a NFL offense. The question is if he has the work habits.

But I won't be a bit surprised if Arizona pulls the trigger on him. I think he'll be a guy that Bruce Arians likes.

 

[dieterbrock]

Cardale shoulda came out last year while he was hot. Seems the longer guys stay in school, the more their stock drops.
At best he's an UDFA. There's a ton of college QB who dont get to play to show off what they got.

 

[FRO]

If Matthew Stafford becomes available I would offer a first for him and maybe more to get the deal done. He probably won't be available because QBs are hard to come by. My second option would be to see if I could trade up for Lynch or Goff. Considering QBs are hard to come by I don't see that happening unless there is an RGIII type overpay. I'm not into that. My third option is to cry.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

If Matthew Stafford becomes available I would offer a first for him and maybe more to get the deal done. He probably won't be available because QBs are hard to come by. My second option would be to see if I could trade up for Lynch or Goff. Considering QBs are hard to come by I don't see that happening unless there is an RGIII type overpay. I'm not into that. My third option is to cry.

Paxton Lynch is the best of the bunch this year, IMO. I am not sold on Stafford and don't know why the Lions would move him. It is just too hard to get a good QB. The Lions need to find the right coaching staff to maximize his talent, or fix the D so it isn't all on Staffords shoulders.

 

[FRO]

Paxton Lynch is the best of the bunch this year, IMO. I am not sold on Stafford and don't know why the Lions would move him. It is just too hard to get a good QB. The Lions need to find the right coaching staff to maximize his talent, or fix the D so it isn't all on Staffords shoulders.

They are slated to pick first right now and may feel like blowing it up and rebuilding, starting with a much cheaper new QB.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

They are slated to pick first right now and may feel like blowing it up and rebuilding, starting with a much cheaper new QB.

That is still a dice roll.

 

[dieterbrock]

They are slated to pick first right now and may feel like blowing it up and rebuilding, starting with a much cheaper new QB.

I think Stafford has been exposed as being average at best. With all the talent they have on the offensive side of the ball, and they still cant win.

 

[Stel]

I think Stafford has been exposed as being average at best. With all the talent they have on the offensive side of the ball, and they still cant win.

Yet he performs better that our QBs. Not sure he would be worth the money it will take to sign him, though.

 

[dieterbrock]

Yet he performs better that our QBs. Not sure he would be worth the money it will take to sign him, though.

Does he though?
Career 83.7 QBR throwing to the likes of Calvin Johnson and many other good receivers. Meanwhile thats what Rams QB's have been under Fisher (2012 82.7, 2013 84.8, 2014 84.9)
Nick Foles when playing with top talent went 27-2
I dont see anything about that Stafford that would suggest he could IMPROVE by coming to this offense but I sure see how Foles would do better in Detroit.....

 

[jrry32]

I'd definitely take Stafford over Foles.