Watkins vs Evans? My Scouting Reports!

[NJRamsFan]

I will publish another article tomorrow or Monday, on why it makes sense that Fisher has avoided drafting offensive linemen in the first round. I don't have time to explain my hypothesis now, but I can tell you right now, I SneadFish to draft WR's and defensive personnel before offensive linemen.

If the Rams draft Johnny Manziel from pick #7 and beyond, I will not cry.

I like Jake Mathews better than Greg Robinson for many reasons, but I will give you just one....Jake Mathews is a better pass blocker than Robinson, and the NFL is a passing league. A great running back averages 5.0 yards a carry. A crappy quarterback averages 6.5 yards per passing attempt. If we draft an offensive lineman with our first pick...Give me the pass blocker!

Did I misread that or did you just say you'd be okay with Manziel after 7?

 

[V3]

You have some excellent posts. I honestly wish you had a segment on the radio where the other idiots would just shut up and listen. Whether I agree or not, you can tell you actually know your stuff and watch games and not highlights. The guys on the radio just watch highlight videos and then read Mike Mayock and then regurgitate that for the listeners. It's a complete waste of airtime, IMO. On top of that, I don't think they've even talked about possibilities past 13. It nice to have in depth stuff like this. JT, Bernie, Gordon, et al need to take notes. Thanks for the posts.

 

[jrry32]

A multitude of words in a myriad of articles have been written this offseason extolling wide receivers Sammy Watkins and Mike Evans talents. This article will contrast Mike Evans and Sammy Watkins in detail, emphasizing how each player would fit in with the Rams. The Rams have a stable of second and third tier wide receivers. The Rams don't need a another third tier receiver! If the Rams draft a wide receiver in 2014, Mike Evans and Sammy Watkins are the only two who make sense.
I watched every game Mike Evans played in 2012 and 2013. I scouted every game Sammy Watkins played in 2013. Let's look at Sammy Watkins first.


Sammy Watkins (20 years old) 6'1" 211 , 4.43 40 and 34 inch vertical. Arm length 32 inches.
History- Sammy Watkins had an amazing freshman year, followed by a two game suspension and a disappointing sophomore year, and finally a fantastic junior year. Sammy Watkins caught 101 passes, for 1464 yards, and 12 touchdowns in 2014.

Sammy caught over 50 percent of his passes within 6 yards of the line of scrimmage. Clemson utilized Sammy Watkins on reverses, bubble screens, and many quick hitters, in order to exploit Sammy Watkins elusiveness. Watkins averaged about 8.5 yards after the catch. Watkins is not as elusive or fast as Tavon Austin, but Watkins has better hands than Tavon Austin, and is harder to bring down after contact. Sammy has fantastic body bend, allowing him to curve his body around defenders to make the catch. If Sammy Watkins was 6'5 270, he would make a great pass rushing DE, because of his Mighty Quinn like body bend. Can you dig it? Watch Sammy's last game!



Although Clemson used Watkins extensively in the short passing game, Watkins runs the entire route tree well, and he is very dangerous over the top and along the sideline. Watkins weakness is catching passes 8-16 yard passes over the middle. I wouldn't describe Sammy Watkins as a possession receiver. Yet, Sammy Watkins maximizes his 6'1" height, caching many passes at their apex, utilizing his hands perfectly. Ironically Sammy needs to learn to hold on to the ball after the catch. Solid hits after the catch can dislodge the pigskin from Sammy Watkins possession.

Initial Sammy Watkins vs Mike Evans comparisions- They have equal hands. Both receivers are fantastic at catching the ball at it's Apex. Yet, because of Mike Evans 4 inch height advantage, 3 inch arm length, and 3 inch vertical leap advantage it would appear that Evans can catch the ball 10 inches higher than Sammy Watkins. Mike Evans is hands down the best receiver in the draft at catching jump balls. More on that later.

Watkins excels in the short pass game, where Evans excels further down the field. Watkins is more a more polished route runner than Evans, yet I believe Mike Evans is smarter, more inexperienced, (very quick learner) and he will learn the entire NFL route tree. Watkins can bend his body better than Evans, yet Evans has a superior field awareness, and has a bigger body for defenders to get around. Watkins' superior body bend helps him catch passes near the ground better than Mike Evans. Mike Evans is better at fending off defenders hands than Watkins on contested passes.

Sammy Watkins has a very quick release, thus he can beat press coverage, but if a Cornerback like Richard Sherman gets his hands on Sammy, then Watkins can be stifled and taken out of his pass pattern. Mike Evans is a tenth of a second slower than Sammy Watkins,, but Evans is very physical and aggressive punching cornerbacks and pushing off to gain separation. Mike Evans will get the occasional pushing off penalty called on him.

Mike Evans and Sammy Watkins gain separation in totally different ways. Watkins gains separation via his burst of speed, cutting ability and body bending around defenders. Evans gains separation by positioning his body between the defender and the receiver. Evans will have more contested catches than Watkins, where as Watkins will get open more often. Yet, Evans is the best player in the draft as catching contested passes. Johnny Manziel depended on it! More on that later.

Intelligence- NFL wide receivers traditionally have the lowest Wonderlic scores of any position. I don't know Watkins or Evans scores, but I know Mike Evans has more brain power than Sammy Watkins. Does that matter? Yes, because Evans can find the open areas on broken plays and he understands the strategy of getting into an opponents head. Although less experienced than Watkins, Evans learns faster.

Knocks and predictions on Sammy Watkins- Sammy Watkins needs to improve on catching contested passes, and it would be nice he worked on catching passes, coming across over the middle. Although Sammy is a decent blocker, he is no where near as great a blocker as Mike Evans. Other than that, Sammy doesn't have very many weakness.

Sammy at his best, reminds me of a shorter version of AG Green. I believe Sammy Watkins will catch more passes and have more total yards than Mike Evans in his rookie year. Yet, Mike Evans will score more TD's and have an higher average yardage per catch. Sammy Watkins is a true #1 WR and I would be fine with the Rams drafting him at #2.

If you are still reading this article, take a deep breath, and think Basketball. Why? Because Mike Evans plays football like a basketball player. Mike majored in basketball at Galveston Ball High School, and is relatively new to football. Oh yeah, Evans caught 25 receptions for 648 yards and 7 TDs as a High School senior, and averaged 18.3 points, 8.4 rebounds and 5.2 assists per game, his senior basketball year. He often plays pickup games with Johnny Manziel! They are the Dwyane Wade and Lebron James of College Station rec centers. Enough backstory for now.

I watched a bunch of tape from 2012 and 2013. I specifically paid attention to Evan's stat weak games, such as the Missouri game Where Evans caught just 4 catches for 8 yards. Yet, Evans wasn't anemic as you might think against Missouri. What did I see?

Mike Evans, WR, Texas A&M
Height: 6-5. Weight: 231 , 35 1/8 inch arms
40 Time: 4. 47...Vertical leap 37 inches

Mike is a big WR. He has the frame to add another 8 pounds, topping off at 239 lbs. Mike is very strong, and doesn't fold under press coverage. ( Can't wait to see Sherman on Mike Evans). Mike Evans has a 37 inch vertical leap. Mike likes to use his hands to block and ward off defenders on routes. Let's move to the tape. Let's start with Mikes shittiest game. And I watched the entire game twice. Every offensive snap. Texas A&M vs Missouri.

The Setting- By the end of the season, opposing defenses were playing safeties and cornerbacks deep against A&M. Why? To stop big plays, and force long multi play drives. Another thing. Johnny Football had an injured thumb on his throwing hand for the last 3-4 games of the regular season. The last thing you must know is, A&M ran the ball a lot against Missouri, and A&M had 4 other receivers who can catch the ball well. Anyway, Evans didn't drop any passes. Evans was overthrown on a bomb that would have been a TD. All 4 of the passes Evans caught were very short, and he was swarmed immediately. Think Seahawks vs Denver

Let's get down to the Nitti Gritty. Evans is the best blocking wide receiver I have ever seen at the college level! I never saw Evan's man make tackle on the running back or Manziel! Evans blocks out cornerbacks like a basketball player. Evan's pushes off with his extremely long arms, and screens the defender off with his wide body. It's not vicious. Contraire, Evans displays extreme court awareness. Evans will glace quickly over his shoulder at the running back, so that he can place his body in perfect blocking position. Very impressive blocker. And God knows the Rams could use receivers with downfield blocking skills.

Evans doesn't know the entire NFL route tree. Yet, all phases of Evan's game improved between 2012 and 2013. In 2013 Evans only dropped 4.29% of balls thrown his direction. Compare that to Marquis Lee's 12.31%. Ouch!

Mike Evans is very good at coming back to the QB and catching the ball at it's highest point. With a 39 inch leap tacked on to his 6'5" body, Evans will come back towards the QB and screen out the defender, with his large frame and jump ball! Evans gets open like a basketball player too. Evans cuts well for a big guy, and often lulls the defender to sleep. Like a small forward, he will suddenly cut, and turn of the speed and burn the defender for a lay up.

Evans is at his best, on extended plays, once the initial route is run! His basketball skills serve him well past the 3 second mark. Evans has a knack for finding the open spots in a zone. Again his basketball court awareness serves him well. Especially with a scrambling QB like Johnny Manziel. We don't want the 49'ers or the Seahawks to draft this guy!

Evans likes to use his hands to push off, or punch the defender. He's got a mean streak. If a defender tries to put his hands on Evans, Mike will slap the defender's hands away. Evans was more physical than any defender he faced at the college level. I think Evans will get some pushing off penalties called on him at the next level, but he will also draw a bunch of fouls ( defensive pass interference) penalties. Because he will bait defenders into crawling over his back, the way he screens them out with his body.

Speed- Evans ran a 4.47 40 time! He leaps 38 inches vertically. Evan's has long legs and so he looks slower than 4.47. Yet I didn't see many defenders catch Evans, once he was off to the races. Evans can out run faster 40 guys after the 25 yard mark. 30 yards downfield Mike Evans is still speeding up. He's got gliding speed. And so quick cornerbacks often find themselves chasing Evans's on long passes. Watch Evan's vs Alabama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wl2OfgKbEBs

Route Tree - Evans is a relative football newbie, and so his route tree is limited. James Lofton is training Evans. Evans runs solid post and corner patterns. Solid go patterns. He could work a little on the fade pattern. I noticed improvement in his sideline awareness from 2012-2013. I'm sure Evans is practicing his tip toe drill with James Lofton. His curl and comeback patterns are very good. Slants could use some work. Evans can cut well, but he rounds off many of his patterns. Update- Evans demonstrated on his proday, that he's capable of running the entire NFL Route Tree, and his cuts were sharper.

Yards before and after the Catch- Evans averaged a whopping 20.3 yards a catch in 2013. His best games were against Alabama (279 yards) and Auburn (287 yards) and 4 TD's. I know! Right? Mike averaged 7.63 yards after catching the ball in 2013! Mike's a big boy and he can break tackles! I repeat he can break tackles! He can also leap. Watch this 8 second video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUDgytgxTtM

And the Alabama game, 3 min video- Watch for Mike out leaping Ha Ha Clinton Dix . Notice Mike's gliding speed, Jump ball skill, on field awareness, and his knack for coming back to the QB. Evan's is always a threat over the top!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wl2OfgKbEBs

Pros- 6'5" 231 size, Fantastic Blocker, Low drop rate, Field Awareness- finds open spot on extended plays, catches ball with hands, Catches ball at highest point, Smart, Very physical, uses entire body to screen of defender, cut's like a basketball player, hard to tackle, very difficult to press cover, sneaky, hates losing, team player and he averaged over 20 yards a catch. Although a project, Mike improves quickly. Mike Evans is only 21 years old!

Cons- Will get some pushing off penalties, occasional unsportsman like conduct penalties, rounds off routes, will have to adapt to two feet in bounds.

Project Mike is a bit of a project. He just needs to learn the rest of the route tree and make sharper cuts. I know project leaves a bad taste in Rams fans mouths. Mike is already better than Quick, Pettis, and Givens. And Mike has a high trajectory. Mike learns fast. . ( remember Mike dropped only 4% in 2013).

Pro Day, Les Snead got to watch Evans up close and personal. Mike Evans helped Johnny Manziel have the best Pro Day, of any QB in the draft. If you watched game tape of Evans or his Pro Day, you know Evans is a deep threat! The Manziel to Evans combination drew many owwhhh's and ahhhh's as well as applause. from a crowd including President George Bush.

Would Watkins or Evans add more to the Rams? Both Evans and Watkins are only 20 years old. The Rams have a history of drafting young players. Remember Robert Quinn. On the other hand Khalil Mack is 23 years old! But I digress.

Sammy Watkins plus Tavon Austin would give the Rams two electrifying wide receivers. Watkins fits in with the Rams recent penchant for a short passing game. Yet the Rams lack a superior big and tall wide receiver like Evans. For Mike Evans to be the better pick, Sam Bradford will have to be willing to throw the ball up for grabs to Mike Evans. Mike will come down with the majority of jump balls. Even against Richard Sherman. Since Bradford doesn't extend plays by scrambling very often, that automatically takes away Mike Evan's incredible ability to find the open spot on broken or extended plays. Mike Evans fits in better with Russell Wilson's style of extending play. Pray to God that the Seahawks don't get Evans. Yet Mike Evans could block downfield for Tavon Austin and other Ram threats. At this moment in time Stedman Bailey is the Rams best blocking wide receiver. We could really use a bad ass blocking receiver. Outside of Bailey our receivers are pitiful downfield blockers.

My final thoughts. Because of Sam Bradford's quarterback play I would place Sammy Watkins slightly a head of Mike Evans. If our quarterback was Russell Wilson I would grade Evans higher than Sammy Watkins. The Rams can trade back as far as 4 and probably get Watkins, and back to 8 and get Evans. I love both picks.

My Rams Big Board
1. Jadeveon Clowney
2. Sammy Watkins
3. Mike Evans
4. Jake Mathews
5. Khalil Mack
6. Johnny Manziel
7. Greg Robinson
8. Justin Gilbert
9. DT- Aaron Donald
10. TE- Eric Ebron

Excellent post! There are a few things that I disagree with that I think are worth addressing but it's clear you put a lot of effort into this and watching the guys play and I really respect that. Kudos. Here are a few points of contention for me:

The Rams have a stable of second and third tier wide receivers. The Rams don't need a another third tier receiver! If the Rams draft a wide receiver in 2014, Mike Evans and Sammy Watkins are the only two who make sense.

I gotta disagree strongly with this. 6 of the top 10 WRs in receiving yards in 2013, 10 of the top 15 in receiving yards, and 16 of the 23 WRs that recorded 1000+ yard seasons were not drafted in the first round. Limiting ourselves to only drafting one of the top two WRs(both are expected to go in the top 10) would be a colossal error because odds are that there will likely be a WR available in the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th...or hell...even later rounds...that can be a major contributor in the future.

This is also considered one of the deepest and most talented WR classes in recent memory. Outside of Evans and Watkins, you have first round talents like Odell Beckham Jr. and Brandin Cooks. In the second round, you have guys like Jordan Matthews and Donte Moncrief(although I don't think he fits our system well). In the third round and later, you still have guys like Jared Abbrederis, Robert Herron, Eric Thomas, and Jeremy Gallon. Even if we don't pick Evans or Watkins, there will likely be a WR with the right value to pick somewhere in the draft...if not...then we pass.

Sammy has fantastic body bend, allowing him to curve his body around defenders to make the catch. If Sammy Watkins was 6'5 270, he would make a great pass rushing DE, because of his Mighty Quinn like body bend. Can you dig it? Watch Sammy's last game!

Gotta disagree. Watkins has excellent body control and adjusts well to the football but I have been unimpressed with his bend and flexibility. He struggles to drop his body and sink his hips hard breaks and cuts. He really has to gear down to make them. I don't think his hips are very flexible.

They have equal hands. Both receivers are fantastic at catching the ball at it's Apex. Yet, because of Mike Evans 4 inch height advantage, 3 inch arm length, and 3 inch vertical leap advantage it would appear that Evans can catch the ball 10 inches higher than Sammy Watkins. Mike Evans is hands down the best receiver in the draft at catching jump balls. More on that later.

I disagree. I think Evans has better hands for the reasons you mentioned in the post. He's better at coming down with contested catches and going up and getting the football. Plus, his hands are just as reliable in terms of dropped passes.

Sammy at his best, reminds me of a shorter version of AJ Green. I believe Sammy Watkins will catch more passes and have more total yards than Mike Evans in his rookie year. Yet, Mike Evans will score more TD's and have an higher average yardage per catch.

I think Evans will need a year to adjust to the NFL. He's young and inexperienced as you pointed out. It typically takes big guys a year or two to adjust to the game and catch up. Watkins should do well as a rookie because speed typically translates quickly...especially if you can catch the ball. He'll likely be utilized as more of a deep threat as a rookie as the other parts of his game are developed kind of like Torrey Smith, DeSean Jackson, Mike Wallace, and Chris Givens were utilized as rookies.

I'd say a realistic expectation from Watkins would be 850-950 yards, 5-6 TDs, and 15-18 yards per catch. From Evans, I'd say probably 300-500 yards, 3-5 TDs, and 16-18 yards per catch. But Evans could surprise as the guy has outstanding hands.

I gotta disagree with the AJ Green comparison for Watkins, though. Green was so graceful, smooth, and fluid but lacked in great timed speed. Still, his deceptively long strides, size, technique, and ability to attack the ball make him an extremely dangerous vertical threat. I don't really see much of a comparison between the two in terms of physical skill-set or style.

As I said, just a few minor points of contention. Great job!

 

[Alan]

RamsAndEwe with some new twists:
I will publish another article tomorrow or Monday, on why it makes sense that Fisher has avoided drafting offensive linemen in the first round. I don't have time to explain my hypothesis now, but I can tell you right now, I SneadFish to draft WR's and defensive personnel before offensive linemen.

If the Rams draft Johnny Manziel from pick #7 and beyond, I will not cry.

I like Jake Mathews better than Greg Robinson for many reasons, but I will give you just one....Jake Mathews is a better pass blocker than Robinson, and the NFL is a passing league. A great running back averages 5.0 yards a carry. A crappy quarterback averages 6.5 yards per passing attempt. If we draft an offensive lineman with our first pick...Give me the pass blocker!

Well we're on the same page with both the preference of Matthews and the reasons why (some of them anyway). I't will be interesting to hear your thoughts about the O-line and Snishers drafts but I'm sure the Manzeil conversation will be the most fun. For myself, I wouldn't draft Mazeil in any round.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I talked more about Mike Evans in my article, because there is more Watkins info out there then Evans info. Watkins is a stereotypical super receiver. I felt Mike Evans needed more description. He plays like a basketball player. Given a choice at #2, I would draft Sammy Watkins before Mike Evans because I feel Watkins is a better fit for the Rams. Unless Sam is cool with throwing long throws up for grabs, then I lean towards Evans.

I've never seen Sam Bradford throw jump balls to Quick or Pettis, so I doubt, and can not predict Sam Bradford's willingness to toss jump balls to Mike Evans. In fact I don't think Sam would do it enough to value Evans over Watkins. I would pick Sammy before Mike.

Yet, I feel we could get a better extra draft pick or picks with Evans than Sammy. Am I making sense? For example. if we moved back to 4 we might get a an extra 2nd round pick, and still grab Watkins. But if we moved back to 8, I'm surely get more than a 2nd round pick, and we would still nab Evans. I'm just probing possibility's.

Would you rather have Watkins and an extra 2nd round pick? OR, Evans and an extra 3rd round pick this year, and the Vikings first round pick next year? It's all about cost benefit analysis!

That is a tough call. Do we know what next years draft is going to be like? Is it going to be 2010? If so then a first next year is not worth as much as a second this year. But yeah I do see what you are saying with the trading back. I would like the Rams to get one of the top players out of this draft and at the same time would like to see an impact player taken. I would be very happy with Matthews. My second choice would be Mack. Getting one of them and then Evans may be preferable to getting Watkins and Lewan.

Getting only Evans and a bunch of picks would be a wasted opportunity to me. The Rams need some top talent and have a chance to get two very good players. I would hate if they get one pretty good player and a couple more good players. The team is good enough that a few impact players could put them over the top.

 

[RFIP]

Watkins will not only be used as a deep threat this year but in the smoke screen game as well. Something he will excellent at.

But his ability to seperation and to be physical with db's will both be huge pluses for him right out the gate.

Evans learning curve is going to be a long one I believe, something the Rams, as current constructed simply can not afford.

Excellent post! There are a few things that I disagree with that I think are worth addressing but it's clear you put a lot of effort into this and watching the guys play and I really respect that. Kudos. Here are a few points of contention for me:



I gotta disagree strongly with this. 6 of the top 10 WRs in receiving yards in 2013, 10 of the top 15 in receiving yards, and 16 of the 23 WRs that recorded 1000+ yard seasons were not drafted in the first round. Limiting ourselves to only drafting one of the top two WRs(both are expected to go in the top 10) would be a colossal error because odds are that there will likely be a WR available in the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th...or hell...even later rounds...that can be a major contributor in the future.

This is also considered one of the deepest and most talented WR classes in recent memory. Outside of Evans and Watkins, you have first round talents like Odell Beckham Jr. and Brandin Cooks. In the second round, you have guys like Jordan Matthews and Donte Moncrief(although I don't think he fits our system well). In the third round and later, you still have guys like Jared Abbrederis, Robert Herron, Eric Thomas, and Jeremy Gallon. Even if we don't pick Evans or Watkins, there will likely be a WR with the right value to pick somewhere in the draft...if not...then we pass.



Gotta disagree. Watkins has excellent body control and adjusts well to the football but I have been unimpressed with his bend and flexibility. He struggles to drop his body and sink his hips hard breaks and cuts. He really has to gear down to make them. I don't think his hips are very flexible.



I disagree. I think Evans has better hands for the reasons you mentioned in the post. He's better at coming down with contested catches and going up and getting the football. Plus, his hands are just as reliable in terms of dropped passes.



I think Evans will need a year to adjust to the NFL. He's young and inexperienced as you pointed out. It typically takes big guys a year or two to adjust to the game and catch up. Watkins should do well as a rookie because speed typically translates quickly...especially if you can catch the ball. He'll likely be utilized as more of a deep threat as a rookie as the other parts of his game are developed kind of like Torrey Smith, DeSean Jackson, Mike Wallace, and Chris Givens were utilized as rookies.

I'd say a realistic expectation from Watkins would be 850-950 yards, 5-6 TDs, and 15-18 yards per catch. From Evans, I'd say probably 300-500 yards, 3-5 TDs, and 16-18 yards per catch. But Evans could surprise as the guy has outstanding hands.

I gotta disagree with the AJ Green comparison for Watkins, though. Green was so graceful, smooth, and fluid but lacked in great timed speed. Still, his deceptively long strides, size, technique, and ability to attack the ball make him an extremely dangerous vertical threat. I don't really see much of a comparison between the two in terms of physical skill-set or style.

As I said, just a few minor points of contention. Great job!

 

[jrry32]

Watkins will not only be used as a deep threat this year but in the smoke screen game as well. Something he will excellent at.

But his ability to seperation and to be physical with db's will both be huge pluses for him right out the gate.

Evans learning curve is going to be a long one I believe, something the Rams, as current constructed simply can not afford.

I think that's an overstatement. He'll likely break out in Year 2 or Year 3. Regardless, the draft is about the future. The Rams shouldn't pass on Evans because they have to wait and develop him. Drafting purely for today is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Mojo Ram]

I think that's an overstatement. He'll likely break out in Year 2 or Year 3. Regardless, the draft is about the future. The Rams shouldn't pass on Evans because they have to wait and develop him. Drafting purely for today is a recipe for disaster.

Unless you're the Browns where you have no future.

 

[scifiman]

The question is that is wr a bigger priority than an OL or even a FS? I think you bring in the elite OL and the elite FS in round 1. Would not mind having Evans or Watkins but will they make the team that much better in the long run? That elite OL will allow our qb more time to make our wr's better. That FS will help stop those long gains and force turnovers.

 

[den-the-coach]

If the Rams trade down (most likely with the Falcons) Watkins won't be there and IMO if Evans is that good and the Lions love Watkins then IMO why would they pass on Evans or the Bills for that matter too? In the end I don't see either donning horns IMO, however, if they get a 2nd round pick with the trade down (and much more I hope) than Jordan Mattews in round two with their first selection (Falcons) would be just fine as the Rams come away with a pair of Matthews!

 

[RamsFan14]

@RamsAndEwe why don't you post more often?! That was a really good review of the best playmakers in the draft! Honestly, if we get either one, I'll be pretty happy either way. Both bring there own impressive styles of play to STL, we could use either one honestly.

@RFIP what's your opinion on Mike Evans? Do you like him as a prospect and if we drafted him, you think it would be a good fit? Just curious.

 

[RFIP]

@RamsAndEwe why don't you post more often?! That was a really good review of the best playmakers in the draft! Honestly, if we get either one, I'll be pretty happy either way. Both bring there own impressive styles of play to STL, we could use either one honestly.

@RFIP what's your opinion on Mike Evans? Do you like him as a prospect and if we drafted him, you think it would be a good fit? Just curious.

My thoughts on Evans are simple. We need an elite, #1 wr NOW, not in 2-3 years as a "maybe", so because of the bust of Quick, the regression of Givens and the soon to be released Pettis I do not want anything to do with another 'see you in 3 years" wr.

Evans "may" turn out to be VJax "someday" however the Rams simply do not have the time to wait.

 

[blackbart]

I will publish another article tomorrow or Monday,

Where are you publishing articles or are you talking about posting here on ROD??

 

[blackbart]

My thoughts on Evans are simple. We need an elite, #1 wr NOW, not in 2-3 years

Then why are you all over Watkins neither he or any other rookie is going to be that in 2014

 

[Alan]

Ewe posts at Rams Buzz too but I think she's talking about here.

 

[RamsAndEwe]

Excellent post! There are a few things that I disagree with that I think are worth addressing but it's clear you put a lot of effort into this and watching the guys play and I really respect that. Kudos. Here are a few points of contention for me:



I gotta disagree strongly with this. 6 of the top 10 WRs in receiving yards in 2013, 10 of the top 15 in receiving yards, and 16 of the 23 WRs that recorded 1000+ yard seasons were not drafted in the first round. Limiting ourselves to only drafting one of the top two WRs(both are expected to go in the top 10) would be a colossal error because odds are that there will likely be a WR available in the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th...or hell...even later rounds...that can be a major contributor in the future.

This is also considered one of the deepest and most talented WR classes in recent memory. Outside of Evans and Watkins, you have first round talents like Odell Beckham Jr. and Brandin Cooks. In the second round, you have guys like Jordan Matthews and Donte Moncrief(although I don't think he fits our system well). In the third round and later, you still have guys like Jared Abbrederis, Robert Herron, Eric Thomas, and Jeremy Gallon. Even if we don't pick Evans or Watkins, there will likely be a WR with the right value to pick somewhere in the draft...if not...then we pass.



Gotta disagree. Watkins has excellent body control and adjusts well to the football but I have been unimpressed with his bend and flexibility. He struggles to drop his body and sink his hips hard breaks and cuts. He really has to gear down to make them. I don't think his hips are very flexible.



I disagree. I think Evans has better hands for the reasons you mentioned in the post. He's better at coming down with contested catches and going up and getting the football. Plus, his hands are just as reliable in terms of dropped passes.



I think Evans will need a year to adjust to the NFL. He's young and inexperienced as you pointed out. It typically takes big guys a year or two to adjust to the game and catch up. Watkins should do well as a rookie because speed typically translates quickly...especially if you can catch the ball. He'll likely be utilized as more of a deep threat as a rookie as the other parts of his game are developed kind of like Torrey Smith, DeSean Jackson, Mike Wallace, and Chris Givens were utilized as rookies.

I'd say a realistic expectation from Watkins would be 850-950 yards, 5-6 TDs, and 15-18 yards per catch. From Evans, I'd say probably 300-500 yards, 3-5 TDs, and 16-18 yards per catch. But Evans could surprise as the guy has outstanding hands.

I gotta disagree with the AJ Green comparison for Watkins, though. Green was so graceful, smooth, and fluid but lacked in great timed speed. Still, his deceptively long strides, size, technique, and ability to attack the ball make him an extremely dangerous vertical threat. I don't really see much of a comparison between the two in terms of physical skill-set or style.

As I said, just a few minor points of contention. Great job!

I agree with your first point. I should have said Watkins and Evans are the WR's who make sense in the first round. I am a fan of Odell Beckham Jr. and Mathews from Vanderbilt. I can see us trading down our 13 pick and taking a wide receiver. I'm cool with that. I'm guilty of being Miss Obvious stating that Watkins and Evans are the only receivers worth a top 10 pick. My Bad. We have 12 picks, and I want at least 1 wide receiver to compete with our other guys. Givens was our top rated receiver last year and he was ranked 78th in the NFL. We need more WR's.

I agree with you second point too. Evans has better hands, although their drop rates were very similar. Watkins caught many screens and short passes, which are easy to catch. Mike Evans averaged over 20 yards a catch, and you don't do that catching bubble screens. Many of Evan's catches were contest, so yes Mike Evans has better hands than Sammy Watkins.

I agree mostly with your predictions for Watkins and Evans. Depending on who draft Mike Evans, I think Evans may catch as many as 7-8 TD's. If he gets a QB who is willing to throw jump balls in the redzone. Actually your predictions are very good. Conservative, but probably accurate. Yet, if either receiver surprises I would bet, they would surprise to the upside.

 

[jrry32]

My thoughts on Evans are simple. We need an elite, #1 wr NOW, not in 2-3 years as a "maybe", so because of the bust of Quick, the regression of Givens and the soon to be released Pettis I do not want anything to do with another 'see you in 3 years" wr.

Evans "may" turn out to be VJax "someday" however the Rams simply do not have the time to wait.

Watkins will be a rookie. Expecting him to be an elite #1 WR now is unrealistic imo.

As I said before, the only two ROOKIE WRs to put up 1000+ yards and 10+ TDs since the merger were John Jefferson in 1978(Air Coryell) and Randy Moss in 1998. Maybe this is just my personal opinion but Sammy Watkins isn't Randy Moss.

The kid has talent but expecting him to be an elite #1 WR right now is very unrealistic. And if you have that standard, he'll most likely end up disappointing you.

 

[jrry32]

I agree with your first point. I should have said Watkins and Evans are the WR's who make sense in the first round. I am a fan of Odell Beckham Jr. and Mathews from Vanderbilt. I can see us trading down our 13 pick and taking a wide receiver. I'm cool with that. I'm guilty of being Miss Obvious stating that Watkins and Evans are the only receivers worth a top 10 pick. My Bad. We have 12 picks, and I want at least 1 wide receiver to compete with our other guys. Givens was our top rated receiver last year and he was ranked 78th in the NFL. We need more WR's.

Agreed. I'd like to see us grab one somewhere in the draft. And I am also high on OBJ and Matthews among a few other WRs.

I agree mostly with your predictions for Watkins and Evans. Depending on who draft Mike Evans, I think Evans may catch as many as 7-8 TD's. If he gets a QB who is willing to throw jump balls in the redzone. Actually your predictions are very good. Conservative, but probably accurate. Yet, if either receiver surprises I would bet, they would surprise to the upside.

Rookie WRs, especially those coming from spread offenses, are just really tough to gauge. My expectations for Austin were way too high this year. So I'm trying to be more conservative with these guys. You never quite know how long it'll take them to catch up to the pro game mentally. I could see both guys outplaying my projections if they catch on quickly and end up in a good situation...or not meeting my projections if they end up in a bad situation or struggle to master the pro playbook, route tree and understanding of coverages. But I agree, they'd more likely surprise to the over than the under.

 

[RamsAndEwe]

Well we're on the same page with both the preference of Matthews and the reasons why (some of them anyway). I't will be interesting to hear your thoughts about the O-line and Snishers drafts but I'm sure the Manzeil conversation will be the most fun. For myself, I wouldn't draft Mazeil in any round.

I could write a lot about Manziel. I've seen every play of his college career, and some of his high school tape. Yet, it has been my experience that discussing a new Rams QB starts board wars. Sometimes I wonder if my favorite team is the Saint Louis Sams. lol

I will say this about Manziel. Manziel is a true leader. ( of course you can't lead in the NFL unless you produce on the field) Manziel's teammates would follow him into hell and war!

Johnny Manziel is very smart. He has been practicing his baseball slide, because he knows he can't take a bunch of NFL type hits. Johnny knows the sideline is his friend, and he will run out of bounds often. He's not like RG3. RG3 believed his own hype, and thought he was Superman. RG3 didn't know every defender carries a pocket full of Kryptonite in every devastating hit.
We all remember Manziel's Heisman year. Did you know that in 2013, Manziel ran 65 less times and threw 14 more TD's then his Heisman year.

If Manziel slips to 13 I would run to the podium and draft him. Yes I would. There is no way Johnny slips that far. How do I know? I've seen every play in every game in Johnny Football's career. Besides his big play magic, I've never seen a right handed QB in college or the NFL roll left as well as Manziel and throw accurate 55 yard passes. Manziel is uber deadly rolling either way, but he may roll left better than right. Kurt Warner watched Manziel, and Kurt said, "There aren't 10 QB's in the NFL who can make the throws Manziel makes."

That's good news for the Rams! Manziel will be gone by the fifth pick. No way in hell he slips past Tampa Bay at 7! The more QB's picked in the top 10, the more positional players for us, and the more trade value power our #2 pick accumulates. There will be at least 3 quarterbacks off the board by the time our 13 pick rolls around. Mark my words.

 

[jrry32]

I could write a lot about Manziel. I've seen every play of his college career, and some of his high school tape. Yet, it has been my experience that discussing a new Rams QB starts board wars. Sometimes I wonder if my favorite team is the Saint Louis Sams. lol

I will say this about Manziel. Manziel is a true leader. ( of course you can't lead in the NFL unless you produce on the field) Manziel's teammates would follow him into hell and war!

Johnny Manziel is very smart. He has been practicing his baseball slide, because he knows he can't take a bunch of NFL type hits. Johnny knows the sideline is his friend, and he will run out of bounds often. He's not like RG3. RG3 believed his own hype, and thought he was Superman. RG3 didn't know every defender carries a pocket full of Kryptonite in every devastating hit.
We all remember Manziel's Heisman year. Did you know that in 2013, Manziel ran 65 less times and threw 14 more TD's then his Heisman year.

If Manziel slips to 13 I would run to the podium and draft him. Yes I would. There is no way Johnny slips that far. How do I know? I've seen every play in every game in Johnny Football's career. Besides his big play magic, I've never seen a right handed QB in college or the NFL roll left as well as Manziel and throw accurate 55 yard passes. Manziel is uber deadly rolling either way, but he may roll left better than right. Kurt Warner watched Manziel, and Kurt said, "There aren't 10 QB's in the NFL who can make the throws Manziel makes."

That's good news for the Rams! Manziel will be gone by the fifth pick. No way in hell he slips past Tampa Bay at 7! The more QB's picked in the top 10, the more positional players for us, and the more trade value power our #2 pick accumulates. There will be at least 3 quarterbacks off the board by the time our 13 pick rolls around. Mark my words.

I'm not a Manziel guy. I'm distrustful of QBs that don't look comfortable in the pocket and are reliant on their legs to decipher the defense. He's too much of a risk for me to get behind.

As far as throwing left, it's impressive. Check Blake Bortles from UCF out if you have the chance. He's a right-handed QB who weirdly enough probably throws most accurately when moving to his left. He has made some insanely good throws while scrambling to his left.