Venturi...

[max]

Trent Green was on today and said he's not sure about Sam's head right now. He drew comparisons to Jason Campbell. He said he likes Sam and he looks good in 7 on 7, but in the heat of the battle he misses simple reads and throws. He may not have the confidence

Torry Holt said that Sam has got to make that wide open throw to Pettis. That is a huge problem when you miss that throw.

Actually, every pro player said the same thing about that play. There is no explaining it away. It was a clear indication of the problem with Sam. If you can't count on him to make those throws, then you can't believe in him as your QB.

There is no way around saying that Sam misses throws in critical situations that a good QB needs to make.

I think it was Steve Savard who said the whole complexion of the game changed when Sam missed that throw. Sam makes that throw and his team gets pumped up and it puts more pressure on the Niners. Instead, it just fueled the Niners.

That throw had nothing to do with Shotty. It was all on Sam. And he just flat out missed it.

That game last night was Sam's big opportunity to show what he is about, and he flubbed it. And that throw and the underthown pass to Quick were prime examples.

I think a lot of us are just unable to give up the ghost. The odds are very high that Sam ain't the guy.

 

[joeybittick]

57.5 completion %, 698 yards, 5.5 avg, 5 TD, 2 INT 7 sacks. That's in 3 games. That QB fucking sucks. His team should get rid of him.

those are Tom Brady's numbers. And those seven sacks, 3 came against BUF when he completed 55.8% of his passes and against the Jets he was sacked once and only completed 48.7% but was playing in the rain. I have a feeling if Bradford played that kind of game in the rain, people would not accept the weather as an excuse.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.nfl.com/player/tombrady/2504211/gamelogs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.nfl.com/player/tombrady/2504211/gamelogs</a>

And a few more QB's numbers:

1. 60.4%, 848 yards, 7.6 avg, 4 TD ,4 INT, 10 Sacks 0-3 Team Record

2. 58.8%, 931 yards, 8.2 avg, 5 TD, 8 INT, 11 sacks, 0-3 Team Record

3. 65.2%, 658 yards, 7.2 avg, 3 TD, 1 INT, 8 sacks, 2-1 Team Record

4. 68.1%, 909 yards, 7.6 avg, 6 TD, 2 INT, 5 sacks, 1-2 Team Record

5. 60.5%, 744 yards, 6.3 avg, 3 TD, 2 INT, 8 sacks, 2-1 Team Record

I could go on and on, but I am getting sick of typing. The point should be obvious, but I will state it anyway.

Look at those numbers with no names attached. If those were the Rams QB numbers, the fans would be calling for #1 and #2 to be cut based on their individual numbers and the team record, fans would want #5 to be upgraded based on his pedestrian numbers, #3 would be borderline, good completion percentage but "What do completions matter if your QB can't get it in the end zone!!!!!!??????", and maybe, just maybe, #4 would get a pass from the fans UNTIL this number: 1-4. That's "his" playoff record.

So yeah, I am pretty sure fans would hate three of those QB's, and be unsure about the other 2. Those 5 are: (You probably guessed already, right?)

1. Ben Roethlisberger, 2. Eli Manning, 3. Andrew Luck, 4. Matt Ryan, 5. Joe Flacco.

Manning, Big Ben, and Flacco all have rings, Matt Ryan has been in the playoffs 4 out of 5 years, and Andrew Luck is the darling of the NFL, the next Montana/Manning/Elway/Marino only he is going to be better than those guys! The funny thing is, I would say that the guy most would rank last on that list has a ring (Flacco) and Big Ben would probably not go number 1, neither would Eli, and they have multiple rings. What does that tell you? That while the QB may be the most important player on the field, he is not the only player. Team success=wins.

Oh, and it also means that every QB struggles at times, and they often struggle when the team around them is struggling. I realize these numbers are being viewed without career context (which is the point), and I realize that you might say Bradford has not had the success that the other QBs have had (I would say the Rams have not had the success of those teams, but whatever) but that's the point. If you removed the name from the back of the jersey and just looked at the player's numbers, I think people would be giving Bradford more credit for his play.

 

[-X-]

Trent Green was on today and said he's not sure about Sam's head right now. He drew comparisons to Jason Campbell. He said he likes Sam and he looks good in 7 on 7, but in the heat of the battle he misses simple reads and throws. He may not have the confidence

Torry Holt said that Sam has got to make that wide open throw to Pettis. That is a huge problem when you miss that throw.

Actually, every pro player said the same thing about that play. There is no explaining it away. It was a clear indication of the problem with Sam. If you can't count on him to make those throws, then you can't believe in him as your QB.

There is no way around saying that Sam misses throws in critical situations that a good QB needs to make.

I think it was Steve Savard who said the whole complexion of the game changed when Sam missed that throw. Sam makes that throw and his team gets pumped up and it puts more pressure on the Niners. Instead, it just fueled the Niners.

That throw had nothing to do with Shotty. It was all on Sam. And he just flat out missed it.

That game last night was Sam's big opportunity to show what he is about, and he flubbed it. And that throw and the underthown pass to Quick were prime examples.

I think a lot of us are just unable to give up the ghost. The odds are very high that Sam ain't the guy.

Those are a lot of thoughts. I have the Trent Green audio right here too, and I forgot to post it. I trimmed out only the Bradford talk too, coincidentally. I agree with a lot of what Trent says here. But you painted a very different picture than what he actually says.

[mp3]http://ramsondemand.com/interviews/TrentGreen.mp3[/mp3]

Yes, Sam missed a few throws. But guess what? I could make a 1 hour video of all the greats who missed very similar throws THIS season. In fact, before my RamsONDEMAND YouTube account was deleted, I had a video that showed Brady overthrowing Lloyd wide open at the 1 yard line uncovered, a throw that Rodgers made that was 5 yards over the head of Cobb for a sure TD, and a throw that Brees missed by a country mile to Deverey Henderson for what would have been a sure 6. I was trying to make a point on the PD, but decided it wasn't worth the effort at the time. Wish I still had that.

At any rate, I'm not excusing Bradford. The question, right now is, is that who he is? Or is that who he is this year? Is that all on him, or does Schotty indeed share culpability? I won't say one way or the other because I don't have the kind of intimate knowledge that the Rams' coaching staff has with regard to his talent, mental makeup and understanding of the system.

You're right about one thing. I'm not "giving up the ghost." I'm thinking a little more clearly today, and I'll go back through some replays this year and not isolate it to the SF game. I'm even going to go through the 2012 games and the 2011 games. For you see, before I make any kind of definitive determination about Bradford being "the guy" going forward, it's going to take a lot more than last week's game to get there. And I'm gonna drag you all screaming and kicking along the way.

I have all of his throws over 15 yards from 2011 if you'd like to see it. Quite possibly the worst fiasco of a football team in Rams history. Would you like to see how he performed under THOSE circumstances? Because I'd be more than happy to post it if you want to take a look. It's 15 minutes long or so.

 

[joeybittick]

Trent Green was on today and said he's not sure about Sam's head right now. He drew comparisons to Jason Campbell. He said he likes Sam and he looks good in 7 on 7, but in the heat of the battle he misses simple reads and throws. He may not have the confidence

Torry Holt said that Sam has got to make that wide open throw to Pettis. That is a huge problem when you miss that throw.

Actually, every pro player said the same thing about that play. There is no explaining it away. It was a clear indication of the problem with Sam. If you can't count on him to make those throws, then you can't believe in him as your QB.

There is no way around saying that Sam misses throws in critical situations that a good QB needs to make.

I think it was Steve Savard who said the whole complexion of the game changed when Sam missed that throw. Sam makes that throw and his team gets pumped up and it puts more pressure on the Niners. Instead, it just fueled the Niners.

That throw had nothing to do with Shotty. It was all on Sam. And he just flat out missed it.

That game last night was Sam's big opportunity to show what he is about, and he flubbed it. And that throw and the underthown pass to Quick were prime examples.

I think a lot of us are just unable to give up the ghost. The odds are very high that Sam ain't the guy.

I just don't get this. It completely ignores the human element. Sam missed that throw, he should not have, BUT, EVERY QB EVER has missed an open WR for a TD. How many times did Brett Favre overthrow the ball or throw stupid interceptions? Look at Peyton Manning in many of his playoff performances. He has even missed throws this year

It was a bad play by Bradford, and he made a couple other bad throws. "Good QB's MAKE that throw". Not every time they don't. He should have made the throw, but he is not a machine.

And another thing, former players tend to forget that there was a time when they didn't make a play they should have...

On the whole, Bradford has been a good QB this year, and last year too. He hasn't been elite yet, but he is still a young QB, and all of the things working against him... I won't bother listing those again. It could turn out that Bradford sucks like some of you want to say, but maybe are not saying in order to show respect ROD. It's also possible he could be the next Aikman. I just don't get why you have to make that proclamation either way right now.






EDITED: Joey, I want you to see how I edited your post. My apologies, but I'm holding you to a higher standard.

 

[joeybittick]

Trent Green was on today and said he's not sure about Sam's head right now. He drew comparisons to Jason Campbell. He said he likes Sam and he looks good in 7 on 7, but in the heat of the battle he misses simple reads and throws. He may not have the confidence

Torry Holt said that Sam has got to make that wide open throw to Pettis. That is a huge problem when you miss that throw.

Actually, every pro player said the same thing about that play. There is no explaining it away. It was a clear indication of the problem with Sam. If you can't count on him to make those throws, then you can't believe in him as your QB.

There is no way around saying that Sam misses throws in critical situations that a good QB needs to make.

I think it was Steve Savard who said the whole complexion of the game changed when Sam missed that throw. Sam makes that throw and his team gets pumped up and it puts more pressure on the Niners. Instead, it just fueled the Niners.

That throw had nothing to do with Shotty. It was all on Sam. And he just flat out missed it.

That game last night was Sam's big opportunity to show what he is about, and he flubbed it. And that throw and the underthown pass to Quick were prime examples.

I think a lot of us are just unable to give up the ghost. The odds are very high that Sam ain't the guy.

Those are a lot of thoughts. I have the Trent Green audio right here too, and I forgot to post it. I trimmed out only the Bradford talk too, coincidentally. I agree with a lot of what Trent says here. But you painted a very different picture than what he actually says.

[mp3]http://ramsondemand.com/interviews/TrentGreen.mp3[/mp3]

Yes, Sam missed a few throws. But guess what? I could make a 1 hour video of all the greats who missed very similar throws THIS season. In fact, before my RamsONDEMAND YouTube account was deleted, I had a video that showed Brady overthrowing Lloyd wide open at the 1 yard line uncovered, a throw that Rodgers made that was 5 yards over the head of Cobb for a sure TD, and a throw that Brees missed by a country mile to Deverey Henderson for what would have been a sure 6. I was trying to make a point on the PD, but decided it wasn't worth the effort at the time. Wish I still had that.

At any rate, I'm not excusing Bradford. The question, right now is, is that who he is? Or is that who he is this year? Is that all on him, or does Schotty indeed share culpability? I won't say one way or the other because I don't have the kind of intimate knowledge that the Rams' coaching staff has with regard to his talent, mental makeup and understanding of the system.

You're right about one thing. I'm not "giving up the ghost." I'm thinking a little more clearly today, and I'll go back through some replays this year and not isolate it to the SF game. I'm even going to go through the 2012 games and the 2011 games. For you see, before I make any kind of definitive determination about Bradford being "the guy" going forward, it's going to take a lot more than last week's game to get there. And I'm gonna drag you all screaming and kicking along the way.

I have all of his throws over 15 yards from 2011 if you'd like to see it. Quite possibly the worst fiasco of a football team in Rams history. Would you like to see how he performed under THOSE circumstances? Because I'd be more than happy to post it if you want to take a look. It's 15 minutes long or so.

Damn, I should have waited a few minutes to just quote you rather than wasting 15 minutes writing my own post :mrgreen:

+1000000 :tooth: :ww:

 

[bluecoconuts]

Gretzky missed wide open nets

Jordan missed free throws

Every QB misses throws.



Nobody is perfect, was it a bad play to miss? Yes. Did it really matter? In the grand scheme of things probably not. Everyone and their mother knows that if you want to beat the 49ers you put the game in Kaepernicks hands. That's how we did it last year, we took away their run game. That's how Seattle and Indy did it the previous two weeks, they took away their run game, made him pass. We let Gore run on us from the start, we let them convert 3rd and long several times. Our offense needed to get going, but that throw isn't what lost the game. Bradford didn't lose that game. The team lost that game.

 

[joeybittick]

Trent Green was on today and said he's not sure about Sam's head right now. He drew comparisons to Jason Campbell. He said he likes Sam and he looks good in 7 on 7, but in the heat of the battle he misses simple reads and throws. He may not have the confidence

Torry Holt said that Sam has got to make that wide open throw to Pettis. That is a huge problem when you miss that throw.

Actually, every pro player said the same thing about that play. There is no explaining it away. It was a clear indication of the problem with Sam. If you can't count on him to make those throws, then you can't believe in him as your QB.

There is no way around saying that Sam misses throws in critical situations that a good QB needs to make.

I think it was Steve Savard who said the whole complexion of the game changed when Sam missed that throw. Sam makes that throw and his team gets pumped up and it puts more pressure on the Niners. Instead, it just fueled the Niners.

That throw had nothing to do with Shotty. It was all on Sam. And he just flat out missed it.

That game last night was Sam's big opportunity to show what he is about, and he flubbed it. And that throw and the underthown pass to Quick were prime examples.

I think a lot of us are just unable to give up the ghost. The odds are very high that Sam ain't the guy.

I just don't get this. It completely ignores the human element. Sam missed that throw, he should not have, BUT, EVERY QB EVER has missed an open WR for a TD. How many times did Brett Favre overthrow the ball or throw stupid interceptions? Look at Peyton Manning in many of his playoff performances. He has even missed throws this year

It was a bad play by Bradford, and he made a couple other bad throws. "Good QB's MAKE that throw". Not every time they don't. He should have made the throw, but he is not a machine.

And another thing, former players tend to forget that there was a time when they didn't make a play they should have...

On the whole, Bradford has been a good QB this year, and last year too. He hasn't been elite yet, but he is still a young QB, and all of the things working against him... I won't bother listing those again. It could turn out that Bradford sucks like some of you want to say, but maybe are not saying in order to show respect ROD. It's also possible he could be the next Aikman. I just don't get why you have to make that proclamation either way right now.






EDITED: Joey, I want you to see how I edited your post. My apologies, but I'm holding you to a higher standard.

D'oh Sorry about that. I can't remember exactly what I said, but I remember the gist, and I know better than that.

Note to self: Don't post before the first cigarette of the night :slap!:

 

[…..]

Sams "demeaner" is not what I expect of our starting quarterback

the end.

 

[max]

Allow me to approach this topic from another side...

How many great plays did Sam make on Thursday night?

How many times did he do something where you said wow, Sam really showed me something there?

Did he make any dynamic plays with his feet, mobility, arm, or smarts?

I didn't see anything that made me think Sam is anything more than an average QB. I did see batted balls, errant passes, and poor decision making, but I didn't see anything on the other side of the spectrum in terms of dynamic plays.

I'm sorry to say it but Sam looked like a jag to me.

Consider what was supposed to make Sam better than an average QB when he was drafted. It was his accuracy and smarts. Well, those look average now. On a big stage, in a critical situation, Sam got the apple, and made an awful throw. And he went downhill from there. So what do we have with him? A guy who needs a clean pocket with no pressure at all in his face in order to make a decent throw. That description fits every average QB in the NFL.

Bradford is like a saltwater fish. He needs a perfect environment to operate. He can look pretty when the temperature is perfect, but defenses are gonna turn up the heat on him every time and how well does a saltwater fish do when the temperature changes just a few degrees? They go belly up.

 

[kohhwf]

The simple fact is we are all on here still debating for Bradford to look the part of a good NFL quarterback. Last year I gave up on the idea that Bradford could be elite, but I still thought he could be a good/really good quarterback. By elite I mean Manning/Brady elite which is a high standard so it doesn't mean Bradford is a bust if he doesn't reach that status.

I do not blame him for all the losses and a lot of what happens to the team. I am not a hater of Bradford and I sure as hell wanted him to be good and I still want him to be good.

I just can't get over the fact that in his fourth year in the NFL he still misses wide open receivers which look like simple passes. I am not talking about 30 yard passes down the field. I also know that good quarterbacks eventually have a misfire because they are human. But its every single game with Bradford I am shaking my head after he throws a 10 yard out 5 feet over a guys head or throws it in the dirt.

Once again I do not hate him and I do not want the Rams to be bad. I am not someone who is relishing with Sam's failure. I wish to hell he was a stud QB and hopefully he can prove me wrong.

It is just very frustrating to watch Bradford play on Sundays and always hear the announcers say.."Boy I bet Bradford wishes he could have that one back". For a quarterback who is supposed to be accurate he has shown me very little evidence that he is anything but inaccurate. In year 4 of his NFL career we should not be seeing such poor quarterback play. I think to suggest he has been anything but a below average quarterback in this league so far is a lie.

And I know its not fun to talk about about the Rams this way since they are our team, but what is the point in pointlessly putting blind faith in this team and this quarterback when it isn't warranted? There is a big difference between hoping a team fails and being pissed that this team has been the doormat in the NFL for the past decade.

I know I will get lack for this, but it doesn't make much sense to me that people still post on here supporting Bradford. What has he shown you to suggest he is anything but a bad quarterback? What if the simple fact is he just isn't good? That doesn't make me a hater, but it does make me angry.

 

[CGI_Ram]

57.5 completion %, 698 yards, 5.5 avg, 5 TD, 2 INT 7 sacks. That's in 3 games. That QB freaking sucks. His team should get rid of him.

those are Tom Brady's numbers. And those seven sacks, 3 came against BUF when he completed 55.8% of his passes and against the Jets he was sacked once and only completed 48.7% but was playing in the rain. I have a feeling if Bradford played that kind of game in the rain, people would not accept the weather as an excuse.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.nfl.com/player/tombrady/2504211/gamelogs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.nfl.com/player/tombrady/2504211/gamelogs</a>

And a few more QB's numbers:

1. 60.4%, 848 yards, 7.6 avg, 4 TD ,4 INT, 10 Sacks 0-3 Team Record

2. 58.8%, 931 yards, 8.2 avg, 5 TD, 8 INT, 11 sacks, 0-3 Team Record

3. 65.2%, 658 yards, 7.2 avg, 3 TD, 1 INT, 8 sacks, 2-1 Team Record

4. 68.1%, 909 yards, 7.6 avg, 6 TD, 2 INT, 5 sacks, 1-2 Team Record

5. 60.5%, 744 yards, 6.3 avg, 3 TD, 2 INT, 8 sacks, 2-1 Team Record

I could go on and on, but I am getting sick of typing. The point should be obvious, but I will state it anyway.

Look at those numbers with no names attached. If those were the Rams QB numbers, the fans would be calling for #1 and #2 to be cut based on their individual numbers and the team record, fans would want #5 to be upgraded based on his pedestrian numbers, #3 would be borderline, good completion percentage but "What do completions matter if your QB can't get it in the end zone!!!!!!??????", and maybe, just maybe, #4 would get a pass from the fans UNTIL this number: 1-4. That's "his" playoff record.

So yeah, I am pretty sure fans would hate three of those QB's, and be unsure about the other 2. Those 5 are: (You probably guessed already, right?)

1. Ben Roethlisberger, 2. Eli Manning, 3. Andrew Luck, 4. Matt Ryan, 5. Joe Flacco.

Manning, Big Ben, and Flacco all have rings, Matt Ryan has been in the playoffs 4 out of 5 years, and Andrew Luck is the darling of the NFL, the next Montana/Manning/Elway/Marino only he is going to be better than those guys! The funny thing is, I would say that the guy most would rank last on that list has a ring (Flacco) and Big Ben would probably not go number 1, neither would Eli, and they have multiple rings. What does that tell you? That while the QB may be the most important player on the field, he is not the only player. Team success=wins.

Oh, and it also means that every QB struggles at times, and they often struggle when the team around them is struggling. I realize these numbers are being viewed without career context (which is the point), and I realize that you might say Bradford has not had the success that the other QBs have had (I would say the Rams have not had the success of those teams, but whatever) but that's the point. If you removed the name from the back of the jersey and just looked at the player's numbers, I think people would be giving Bradford more credit for his play.

Hell of a good post jb.

I think being 1-3 has tipped over the pot of emotion... PLUS the way we've lost the last 2 weeks has just made it worse. Someone is to blame for this!

Sam deserves some heat for the SF game, but he doesn't deserve the blame he's getting. Quarterbacking isn't easy and your post shows all of them struggle from time to time. All of them.

 

[max]

The simple fact is we are all on here still debating for Bradford to look the part of a good NFL quarterback. Last year I gave up on the idea that Bradford could be elite, but I still thought he could be a good/really good quarterback. By elite I mean Manning/Brady elite which is a high standard so it doesn't mean Bradford is a bust if he doesn't reach that status.

I do not blame him for all the losses and a lot of what happens to the team. I am not a hater of Bradford and I sure as hell wanted him to be good and I still want him to be good.

I just can't get over the fact that in his fourth year in the NFL he still misses wide open receivers which look like simple passes. I am not talking about 30 yard passes down the field. I also know that good quarterbacks eventually have a misfire because they are human. But its every single game with Bradford I am shaking my head after he throws a 10 yard out 5 feet over a guys head or throws it in the dirt.

Once again I do not hate him and I do not want the Rams to be bad. I am not someone who is relishing with Sam's failure. I wish to hell he was a stud QB and hopefully he can prove me wrong.

It is just very frustrating to watch Bradford play on Sundays and always hear the announcers say.."Boy I bet Bradford wishes he could have that one back". For a quarterback who is supposed to be accurate he has shown me very little evidence that he is anything but inaccurate. In year 4 of his NFL career we should not be seeing such poor quarterback play. I think to suggest he has been anything but a below average quarterback in this league so far is a lie.

And I know its not fun to talk about about the Rams this way since they are our team, but what is the point in pointlessly putting blind faith in this team and this quarterback when it isn't warranted? There is a big difference between hoping a team fails and being pissed that this team has been the doormat in the NFL for the past decade.

I know I will get lack for this, but it doesn't make much sense to me that people still post on here supporting Bradford. What has he shown you to suggest he is anything but a bad quarterback? What if the simple fact is he just isn't good? That doesn't make me a hater, but it does make me angry.

You shouldn't take any slack for voicing a reasonable opinion. Some posters on other boards relish being right ahead of the best results for the Rams. I find that offensive. But when guys who were big Bradford supporters from even before the draft, like I was, are now down on him that's nowhere near the same thing. Especially when there is very good reason to be down on him.

Others will have almost blind faith in the guy regardless of all the negative evidence. That's fine too.

Heck, I just said a couple of days ago that Pead stinks and I read posts that say he is viewed in FF as a viable player, and how they like what they see in Pead. Then what? Well Pead gets inactivated for a game where the Rams are desperate for RB help.

Sometimes reality is an impossible pill for this board to swallow. We all love the Rams here on this board, ahead of our own ego. But there are naturally different degrees of optimism.

 

[kurtfaulk]

He had his usual rant today on 101ESPN, and you can go find it if you want because I'm not posting it. Bugs the shit out of me when he and D'Marco giggle about how bad it was and make cracks about players and units. Yeah, real funny. Har dee fucking har.

venturi knows plenty about bad defense. he was in charge of many defensive units that ranked in the high 20s. never coached a top 10 unit. coached plenty of bottom 10 units.

.

 

[Rambitious1]

He had his usual rant today on 101ESPN, and you can go find it if you want because I'm not posting it. Bugs the shyte out of me when he and D'Marco giggle about how bad it was and make cracks about players and units. Yeah, real funny. Har dee freaking har.

venturi knows plenty about bad defense. he was in charge of many defensive units that ranked in the high 20s. never coached a top 10 unit. coached plenty of bottom 10 units.

.

And if he's such a great coach, why isn't he one now?

 

[-X-]

He used to be a good analyst from what I remember, but now it's like he's auditioning to be a stand up comedian of sorts. Like the Don Rickles of the NFL, and his material is the Rams. Honestly, listening to him now is like "listening" to the PD sometimes. Whether or not he's being truthful is immaterial. It's just the way he comes across now. It's just grating.

 

[Stranger]

Sams "demeaner" is not what I expect of our starting quarterback

the end.

I'm not nearly as concerned about some missed throws as I am concerned about this ^^^. Bottom line, is Sam's head on in such a way as to allow him to succeed? I don't know, I'm not close enough to him, but given all that he has been through, I'm certainly concerned about it.