Using 2 kickers and Rams Special Teams

[12intheBox]

Despite Karty having a few that didn't hit the landing zone, I really really like this idea to help with Special Teams.

Yes, it costs us a dressed roster spot - and that is not nothing.

However, it is no secret that our STs have been a glaring weakness. Doing something substantive that helps kickoff coverage is highly warranted.

Kickoffs are not a huge sample size for this season - but for what the numbers are worth -

The Rams average this year is giving teams starting position of the 35.2
The NFL average is 32.97
Best in the NFL (Bengals) is an average of 30.41
Worst in the NFL (Chargers) is 38.73

And just to toss it out there - kicking out of bounds is the 40, kicking short of the landing zone is the 40, landing it in the endzone for a touchback is the 35, landing it in the landing zone where it rolls out of the endzone (or is downed in the endzone) is the 20.

The dirty kick may result in some 40s, like we saw this week. There will be misses and there will be some that bounce out of bounds. But it may also get a fair amount of 20s, short returns, and chaos if returners have a hard time with the ball. I would think that the dirty ball would have the tendency to limit big returns - although chaos can work multiple ways.

I think our average will go down if we stick with this.

And as a bonus, we have a backup kicker if McM gets hurt mid game or we otherwise find ourselves in need.

I would still prefer to see the Rams punt it out of bounds as a rule - but with Alex Bachman making good choices out there as a returner, we can get special teams to a unit that at least does not cost games. Avoid huge plays on special teams and we are a better team.

 

[FrantikRam]

I think we have to go with the squibs....even if it results in them starting at the 40, that's just 5 more yards than the 35. Risk is worth the reward. But I guess I don't understand, big picture, kicking in the NFL.

Running backs are asked to run fast, break tackles, change speeds, block and catch.

WRs are asked to do much the same, catch open passes, contested, go over the middle.

Defenders are asked to play both the pass and run.

A kicker can't kick both FGs and a "dirty" squib kickoff......? Their only job in life is to kick a football, and they can't practice and get good at kicking the ball differently??

 

[12intheBox]

I think we have to go with the squibs....even if it results in them starting at the 40, that's just 5 more yards than the 35. Risk is worth the reward. But I guess I don't understand, big picture, kicking in the NFL.

Running backs are asked to run fast, break tackles, change speeds, block and catch.

WRs are asked to do much the same, catch open passes, contested, go over the middle.

Defenders are asked to play both the pass and run.

A kicker can't kick both FGs and a "dirty" squib kickoff......? Their only job in life is to kick a football, and they can't practice and get good at kicking the ball differently??

I have had the same thought .... but - it seems like Karty may have a unique skill here. This dirty squib isn't just a squib - it is a screwball. I don't pretend to understand the technique but there is more happening than just where it lands - its how it flies. I'm not sure anyone else in the league is doing it.

Now if Karty can all of a sudden be trusted to also kick XPs and FGs, we are really onto something - but while I don't love using 2 roster spots, it is at least making a concerted effort to fix a weakness.

 

[Flatlyner]

yeah, don't love 2 roster spots on kickers AT ALL. Would MUCH rather have an additional LB for coverage on ST or Trost who can fill in if any OL get dinged up. Karty was only, what, successful 50% of his attempts? That's an F in class or any other job.

 

[jjab360]

The Karty squib kick special was causing chaos for opposing teams last year until he started missing FGs.

If unorthodox roster moves like this are what it takes to get an insanely bad STs back on track, then so be it.

 

[12intheBox]

yeah, don't love 2 roster spots on kickers AT ALL. Would MUCH rather have an additional LB for coverage on ST or Trost who can fill in if any OL get dinged up. Karty was only, what, successful 50% of his attempts? That's an F in class or any other job.

Even starting field position on the 40 though isn't a huge return to the Rams side of the field. Its 7 yards farther than our average. I would like to improve the average starting position - but more than that - I want to avoid the huge game changing returns we give up.

 

[jjab360]

yeah, don't love 2 roster spots on kickers AT ALL. Would MUCH rather have an additional LB for coverage on ST or Trost who can fill in if any OL get dinged up. Karty was only, what, successful 50% of his attempts? That's an F in class or any other job.

Knocking the rust off. If they can get it nailed down then averaging an extra 10 yards starting position for opposing offenses seems like a strong argument to be worth a roster spot. Hell, every team in the NFL already dedicates a roster spot to a long snapper instead of just having one of their centers cross train.

It's time to start thinking outside the box imo.

 

[12intheBox]

View: https://youtu.be/qAv2nnFqFLw?si=_ZlMfPUBdGVO8sWq


Pretty good views of the dirty ball in this video. Ok, I really should get back to work now I guess.

 

[Tano]

yeah, don't love 2 roster spots on kickers AT ALL. Would MUCH rather have an additional LB for coverage on ST or Trost who can fill in if any OL get dinged up. Karty was only, what, successful 50% of his attempts? That's an F in class or any other job.

He was successful 3 out of 5 times so that is a D.

 

[kmramsfan]

He was successful 3 out of 5 times so that is a D.

You're using a grading standard from yesteryear.
THAT'S a big 'ole B today, bruh.

 

[12intheBox]

He was successful 3 out of 5 times so that is a D.

Another way to look at it is the starting field position we gave up on kickoffs was

23
28
40
40
29/19 (19 with the holding penalty)

Thats an average starting field position of 32 / 30 if you count the penalty.

That means he shaved 3-5 yards off our season average even with the 2 misses

 

[snackdaddy]

I suppose if he can get better at reaching the 20 its worth keeping him around. Not to mention a backup kicker if McManus goes down for any reason. Losing Grupe cost us the Cardinals game.

 

[Noregar]

As far as I know Karty is still on the PS for now so he can be just a game day activation so for now it does not count as a roster spot for the 53. They can do this for 4 games so it gives them some time to figure this out.

 

[12intheBox]

As far as I know Karty is still on the PS for now so he can be just a game day activation so for now it does not count as a roster spot for the 53. They can do this for 4 games so it gives them some time to figure this out.

that is true but either way, he counts as one of the 48 who can dress for the game, right?

 

[Jacobarch]

the thing we must understand is the dirty kick is high risk high reward. He's not always gonna hit that, which is why we don't see many kickers doing it in the NFL. Come to think of it, I don't think anyone does it except the Rams. I'm willing to give it a couple of games to figure out if it's worth doing at a high clip.

 

[Ram65]

I'm not sure why,but from what I could tell the kicks were very close to the 20 yard line...I think they were 19, 21, 22 and ? yard line. So maybe he cutting it too fine and should be targeting the 15 yard line if possible. Even on the dirty kicks the Rams tacklers still leave openings. I would give him another week depending on the weather in Washington. I don't how much the colder weather will affect his dirty ball.

 

[12intheBox]

the thing we must understand is the dirty kick is high risk high reward. He's not always gonna hit that, which is why we don't see many kickers doing it in the NFL. Come to think of it, I don't think anyone does it except the Rams. I'm willing to give it a couple of games to figure out if it's worth doing at a high clip.

I don't know about "high" risk - if you mean there is a high risk of the ball ending on the 40, then ok, yeah - that may be correct. But for me the "high" risk is teams running them back on us or ending on our side of the field.

And I think the Panthers kicker still uses this technique - and the I think the Panthers are 2nd best in the NFL right now for opponents starting field position.

 

[Tano]

I'm not sure why,but from what I could tell the kicks were very close to the 20 yard line...I think they were 19, 21, 22 and ? yard line. So maybe he cutting it too fine and should be targeting the 15 yard line if possible. Even on the dirty kicks the Rams tacklers still leave openings. I would give him another week depending on the weather in Washington. I don't how much the colder weather will affect his dirty ball.

I would definitely have him kick it 5 yards farther.

 

[Pupped]

Imagine screwing up your special teams so badly that you have to keep two kickers active to try and ameliorate the fact you don't have the athletes to cover kicks at a non-catastrophic level.

Wow.

 

[12intheBox]

Imagine screwing up your special teams so badly that you have to keep two kickers active to try and ameliorate the fact you don't have the athletes to cover kicks at a non-catastrophic level.

Wow.

I look at it this way - if the Rams had brought in some foaming at the mouth tackling machine who could only play STs because he can't think or cover or whatever - most of us would be fine with it. We are using limited resources to address one of our biggest issues. This is the same thing - and it has the added benefit of having a backup kicker dressed in case lightning strikes McManus.

The point is - we are actually trying something different. We identified this huge problem and we did something about it. I say Bravo - and I hope it works well. We still have the return units, the punt team, and certainly FG,PAT to work out - but baby steps are still steps.