Torn On The Draft-sammy Watkins

[RFIP]

Personally, I'd say no unless Matthews, Clowney and Robinson are gone.

No way I take Clowney over Watkins. The Rams are not in the department of grossly over stocking one position...heck Hayes and Sims are fine substitutional pass rushers as it is.

Also, when I keep hearing people say "Matthews or Robinson instead of Watkins.." what I HEAR is Arizona HAD TO have Levi Brown...as they let Adrian Petersen go to Minnesota.

 

[jrry32]

No way I take Clowney over Watkins. The Rams are not in the department of grossly over stocking one position...heck Hayes and Sims are fine substitutional pass rushers as it is.

Also, when I keep hearing people say "Matthews or Robinson instead of Watkins.." what I HEAR is Arizona HAD TO have Levi Brown...as they let Adrian Petersen go to Minnesota.

Well, if I see an Adrian Peterson in this draft, I'll be all for drafting him.

Your arguments seem pretty contradictory to me. First, you argue that we can't draft Clowney because we don't need him. Then you argue in your next paragraph that we shouldn't pass on Watkins for a player we need more.

Gotta choose a stance, can't have your cake and eat it too.

My opinion is that I draft the best value. That simple. So I'm going to take Clowney over Watkins. I'm going to take Matthews over Watkins. Robinson? That one is a toss up for me. I have them rated similarly in terms of value. I'd probably lean towards Robinson because I think he'd make a greater difference.

 

[Rams and Gators]

In your mock above you believe that the Browns will trade their two first rd'ers for our #2 pick.....what would you do if the Browns refuse to give up both of their first round selections for the Rams #2 but here's what the Browns offered you.....which one would you take?
Rams 1st rd.#2 selection for:
(A).Browns- 1st rd. #26, 2nd rd.#36 & 3rd rd.#68
(B).Browns- 2nd rd.#36, 3rd rd.#68 & future First rd. in 2015
(C).Browns- 1st rd. #4, 2nd rd.#36 & 4th rd #100.
(D).Browns- 1st rd.#26 & Future 1st rd in 2015
(E).Browns- Future 1st rd in 2015 & 2016

Only one I would take is C, otherwise stay where you are (assuming no one else makes an offer) and take the player you want.

 

[bluecollarram]

I'd prefer a trade down, but I don't think we'll get a Griffin type deal, maybe somebody "falls in love" and goes crazy. I just doubt that happens. Playmakers come in all forms OT is a cornerstone position and I think Fisher likes what we have, still I could see a case for drafting OT high just don't know how they view how healthy they will be next year. I view Matthews the way I saw Chris Long a few years ago, solid, safe choice probably not pro bowl material but solid. Robinson is a mauler like the toughness but worry about pass pro. maybe a future stud for coach Boo. Watkins looks to me to be a different caliber prospect I think he gives fans what they thought they were getting with Cook and Austin last year, not saying Cook and Austin were bad just expectations were sky high. Watkins improves the entire unit by giving the Rams outside the numbers production. Sam spreads the ball around and very well, but as we have seen when he has a "no. 1" he gets real comfortable slinging it. Think Clayton and Lloyd I think Sam to Sammy has a nice ring to it.
Super bowl ring that is!

 

[RFIP]

Well, if I see an Adrian Peterson in this draft, I'll be all for drafting him.

Your arguments seem pretty contradictory to me. First, you argue that we can't draft Clowney because we don't need him. Then you argue in your next paragraph that we shouldn't pass on Watkins for a player we need more.

Gotta choose a stance, can't have your cake and eat it too.

My opinion is that I draft the best value. That simple. So I'm going to take Clowney over Watkins. I'm going to take Matthews over Watkins. Robinson? That one is a toss up for me. I have them rated similarly in terms of value. I'd probably lean towards Robinson because I think he'd make a greater difference.

I respect your opinion and like all the time and research you put in to the draft, it is enjoyable to me to read someone like you who puts these lists together in an unbiased and informative way. :bigup:

My point is this, Watkins by most/all accounts IS a top 5 draftee, at a position of need for the Rams that is either first in peoples minds (mine - see my reasoning below) or second (to OL), so IF I have Clowney rated (slightly) higher, the fact that his position is of FAR LESS need does not trump Watkins imo.

Add to this the fact that Clowney dogged his way through last season, and any self respecting GM type has to be concerned over his motor/drive/will where as Watkins tore it up yet again and is by all accounts a highly motivate, elitely talented and focused football player.

As for OL need, none of us know yet how the Saffold thing plays out, or if the Rams will address OL in FA as I believe they will. However, I feel very confident that the Rams will NOT address wr in FA because it is just too darn expensive to do so and there is no FA wr close to the skills Sammy brings.

Lastly, you say you would be all for drafting an Adrian Petersen type if available, ahead of Clowney but I would argue Watkins is that type of player, at a different and, imo, more important position than rb.

 

[jrry32]

I respect your opinion and like all the time and research you put in to the draft, it is enjoyable to me to read someone like you who puts these lists together in an unbiased and informative way. :bigup:

Thank you. I respect your opinion as well. Just don't see eye to eye on this one issue.

My point is this, Watkins by most/all accounts IS a top 5 draftee, at a position of need for the Rams that is either first in peoples minds (mine - see my reasoning below) or second (to OL), so IF I have Clowney rated (slightly) higher, the fact that his position is of FAR LESS need does not trump Watkins imo.

As for OL need, none of us know yet how the Saffold thing plays out, or if the Rams will address OL in FA as I believe they will. However, I feel very confident that the Rams will NOT address wr in FA because it is just too darn expensive to do so and there is no FA wr close to the skills Sammy brings.

Even if Saffold comes back, we're still at least 1 OL short.

I don't have WR as anywhere near our biggest need. I think we could do just fine if our running game works next year with Tavon and Stedman as our starting WRs.

Add to this the fact that Clowney dogged his way through last season, and any self respecting GM type has to be concerned over his motor/drive/will where as Watkins tore it up yet again and is by all accounts a highly motivate, elitely talented and focused football player.

That's not a fact. It's an opinion. :wink:

Watkins struggled in 2012 after being suspended early on. Did he dog his way through that year?

Lastly, you say you would be all for drafting an Adrian Petersen type if available, ahead of Clowney but I would argue Watkins is that type of player, at a different and, imo, more important position than rb.

Well, first of all, that's not what I technically said. You brought up Adrian Peterson in relation to an OL pick. I doubt I'd rate an Adrian Peterson higher than Clowney because Clowney plays a more valuable position and both are elite talents.

My opinion is that Watkins is not that type of player. Calvin Johnson was that type of player. AJ Green was that type of player. Watkins is not. But he's still a damn good prospect in his own right.

But keep in mind that I don't value the WR position nearly as highly as I do the DE and OL positions.

 

[RFIP]

You are a tough nut to crack when you make up your mind.

I can't incision many Ram fans being content with our current we group.....10 years without a 1000 yard receiver? Insane.

And you can't compare Watkins year 2 to what Clowney sis ( or didn't do) this past year.

Oh well as you say, to each his own.

 

[jrry32]

And you can't compare Watkins year 2 to what Clowney sis ( or didn't do) this past year.

Oh well as you say, to each his own.

Why not? Seems applicable. Please expand.

You are a tough nut to crack when you make up your mind.

I can't incision many Ram fans being content with our current we group.....10 years without a 1000 yard receiver? Insane.

That's one way of putting it. Most just say that I'm a stubborn fool. :wink:

I think our guys need time to develop but I'm not against drafting a WR. Just has to be the right value. Personally, I think Tavon can be a DeSean Jackson type player on the outside and I really liked what I saw from Bailey both last year and in college. Givens is a #4 deep threat WR. Quick is who knows what. Pettis is a reliable slot WR.

In an offense that can run the ball, I think we can do fine with the guys we have when you add in Cook and Kendricks. And hell...maybe Quick or Givens actually improves.

 

[RFIP]

My fear is if Tavon plays on the outside he will end up like DJ meaning concussed.

And Watkins year two was not as pathetic as what Clowney just did..or didn't do.

 

[jrry32]

My fear is if Tavon plays on the outside he will end up like DJ meaning concussed.

And Watkins year two was not as pathetic as what Clowney just did..or didn't do.

708 yards and 3 TDs isn't pathetic in a passing offense that threw for over 4000 yard and 39 TDs? To use an analogy, Watkins put up Brandon Gibson like production in a New Orleans Saints caliber passing offense.

It's just as pathetic statistically as what Clowney did. So how is it that a talent like Sammy Watkins could produce so poorly? Is the only answer that he was dogging it?

I feel like Tavon is more of a risk to get concussed playing in the slot working the middle than he is outside. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I lean Matthews, I guess. Clowney may be the odd man out just because DE is not as big of a need and his lack of effort at times concerns me. I am a 110% type. Maybe Greg Williams system would get the %110 out of him.

OLT are always taken early in the draft. How soon will the Rams be back in position to get one of Matthews Caliber? They probably regret passing on him down the road if the dont take him.

I would love to get Watkins because the Rams need a WR like him badly. But, that would be assuming that Tavon, Stedman, and Quick don't develop.

I guess I am back to where I have been most of the last few months. Jake Matthews should be the pick. Maybe Robinson if he can prove he can handle pass protection as well but without that then it has to be Matthews.

 

[BonifayRam]

#1 We took a WR in 2013 with our top selection in the draft @ #8....we hardly used him! #2 We took a WR with the first selection on day two of the 2012 draft we hardly used him! #3 What makes everyone so convinced that selecting another WR with the second overall pick & will cause this great demand in the use of wide outs. Do you question utilizing this very rare opportunity in selecting @ #2 a WR & a position that has been seriously under utilize this past yr ?

What has changed to make adding another WR into an under utilized unit going to improve this team? I realize that the WR's had Ram drop issues but do you fine it interesting most of our WR's they did not catch that dropsy virus till they got here in Rampark??? Will Sammy Watkins received his dropsy virus shot? Sound like a over crowed under utilized WR unit to me.

Fisher found out the hard way that his newly Rebuilt 2013 OL was not talented or skilled enough to make Shotty's passing attack operate but it became clear that he did have a heavy duty capable run blocking OL.

Fishers will go into 2014 with basically the same OL make up. Inspection of his OL :disappoint: if anything it looks to be much weaker in 2014 not better. This well seasoned aged 2013 Ram OL starters had... one 3rd grade knee sprain ORT, one a broken leg OC, another knee sprain & ankle injury ORG & finally a very late season MCL/ACL tears to our best OLT. Those four injuries to our four starters were less injuries than Fisher had in 2012. Guess we could say we had a good normal year as OL unit injuries go. What makes anyone think that we will have less injuries in 2014?

Another thing ...what makes so many think the Rams will be able to keep all the Ol'ers we had in 2013? Looks to me that the 2013 OL will be minus a few well seasoned pass blockers. If the Rams do select some OL'ers in the later rounds as most ROD'mer suggest ...what are rookie OL'ers usually more proficient at ... Pass protection or Run blocking?

So if the Rams do pass on one of these rare few better talented skilled top rookie OL'ers who do have the ability to pass block along with run blocking & go for the "nevermind OL uglies" later in the draft to fill the vacancies of the missing better pass protectors are you expecting & really think that the nevermind OL uglies will pass block better than the well season Ol'ers we had in 2013? :wow:

Maybe drafting a few half dozen RB's would help this team win much more than another "top draft pick under utilized bench riding wide out".

 

[RFIP]

Ok I guess I didn't realize Watkins 2nd year was that poor, I stand corrected there. However at least his final year was strong.

As for Tavon, watch how muchore room he has underneath next year when Wayljns dictates the coverage!

Also I know you mentioned Aj Green being better than Watkins and I get the size factor & I do really like him but Watkins has better (I would say much better) hands and is faster.

I love this kid and believe he is going to be the next superstar we.

 

[shaunpinney]

What I love about Watkins is the way he can shrug off the first defender, an extra yard or two can make the difference

 

[A55VA6]

I'd take Watkins, Clowney, and several handfuls of other players before I'd pick Matthews.

 

[ReddingRam]

Sammy is the only 1st Rd. WR I like. I won't lie... I want him BAD. Could be our Larry Fitzgerald ... BUT ... we do have other needs and this IS a deep WR draft. Snead/Fisher have a plan.... I'll just roll with what they do.

 

[ReddingRam]

I'd take Watkins, Clowney, and several handfuls of other players before I'd pick Matthews.

Yeah ... for the record ... I am NOT a big fan of Matthews in the top 6. Love his pedigree ... but he is not big enough right now to be an NFL OT. ... 6'5" .... under 310#'s ..???

 

[jrry32]

Ok I guess I didn't realize Watkins 2nd year was that poor, I stand corrected there. However at least his final year was strong.

As for Tavon, watch how muchore room he has underneath next year when Wayljns dictates the coverage!

Also I know you mentioned Aj Green being better than Watkins and I get the size factor & I do really like him but Watkins has better (I would say much better) hands and is faster.

I love this kid and believe he is going to be the next superstar we.

I disagree vehemently with that. We are talking about AJ Green here:

 

[jrry32]

Yeah ... for the record ... I am NOT a big fan of Matthews in the top 6. Love his pedigree ... but he is not big enough right now to be an NFL OT. ... 6'5" .... under 310#'s ..???

Not big enough? Ehhhh, He's bigger than Panthers Pro Bowl LT Jordan Gross and he still has room to add more weight to his frame. 6'5" 305-310 is big enough for a NFL OL.

The weight and size of a few recent first round OTs at the combine:
Luke Joeckel - 6'6" 306
Eric Fisher - 6'7" 306
Lane Johnson - 6'6" 303
Justin Pugh - 6'5" 307
Matt Kalil - 6'7" 306
Tyron Smith - 6'5" 307
Eugene Monroe - 6'5" 309
Michael Oher - 6'5" 309
Russell Okung - 6'5" 307
Ryan Clady - 6'6" 309
Sam Baker - 6'5" 309
Joe Staley - 6'6" 306

 

[ReddingRam]

Not big enough? Ehhhh, He's bigger than Panthers Pro Bowl LT Jordan Gross and he still has room to add more weight to his frame. 6'5" 305-310 is big enough for a NFL OL.

The weight and size of a few recent first round OTs at the combine:
Luke Joeckel - 6'6" 306
Eric Fisher - 6'7" 306
Lane Johnson - 6'6" 303
Justin Pugh - 6'5" 307
Matt Kalil - 6'7" 306
Tyron Smith - 6'5" 307
Eugene Monroe - 6'5" 309
Michael Oher - 6'5" 309
Russell Okung - 6'5" 307
Ryan Clady - 6'6" 309
Sam Baker - 6'5" 309
Joe Staley - 6'6" 306

We'll see what he comes in at at the combine. Most colleges "exxagerate" their player's measurements. Matthews does not look anywhere near as big as those you mentioned. I also don't believe you draft an offensive lineman in that area of the first rd. unless he is "exceptional" .... and many scouts are already pointing out lots of deficiencies in his game. I could be wrong ... but I just don't see "special" in him. I see "good". Good should be drafted later, IMHO