Tim Barnes why? I don't get the love?

[Elmgrovegnome]

more playing time and experience that will be what upgrades Barnes. It's a solid move and I'm glad he's with us. GRob, Jamon, Havenstein, and my main man Reynolds with Donnel and Wichman we have got a young line to grow together - I'm excited

I love me some Tim Barnes
- Pappa Barnes

I knew I shouldnt' even have posted about Barnes because it always gets misconstrued. I AM FINE WITH THEM SIGNING BARNES! Some on here are trying to make him out to be more than he is. He is still an upgradable player. Of every young player on the Oline he seems to have the hardest time with handling his blocks. He may know the position well and is a try hard player but is league average or in my opinion with many of the new young centers that are not getting paid a lot below average. But he was the best option. I am just saying people (and there are a few) shouldn't be touting him as if he was a great player....or even a very good player.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

It's not a premium position where teams want to sink cap dollars because it can be "managed" by average guys as long as they've got help and are smart.

Cap money goes to left tackles, pass rushers and quarterbacks which tells you what we already know. It's a passing league!

Yes of course it does. But when you see a Rodney Hudson or a Max Unger or an Alex Mack, maybe even a Ryan Kahlil you see the difference between a serviceable Center or a very good one. To suggest that there is no difference is not realistic. Rodney Hudson transformed the Raiders Oline. LeCharles Bently was a great Center. The position is not highly valued but when there is a good one teams want them. The Saints traded one of their best offensive weapons for one.

Barnes is like Lyle Sendlein. Struggled at first, got better with the years and is an average or lower NFL Center but fits the Cardinals cap. Some coaches value the position more than others. With our young Oline it would be nice to have a good Veteran Center to guide them but that guy just was not affordable.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Rams are investing up to $9M in him the next two years. That's enough to tell me they like what they see. There's a reason we're all talking about this on a board and not GM's.

Bedtime

Sorry, I missed this one. There is also a reason the Rams were talking to the agent of Alex Mack.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

I knew I shouldnt' even have posted about Barnes because it always gets misconstrued. I AM FINE WITH THEM SIGNING BARNES! Some on here are trying to make him out to be more than he is. He is still an upgradable player. Of every young player on the Oline he seems to have the hardest time with handling his blocks. He may know the position well and is a try hard player but is league average or in my opinion with many of the new young centers that are not getting paid a lot below average. But he was the best option. I am just saying people (and there are a few) shouldn't be touting him as if he was a great player....or even a very good player.

Hahha no way please never stop posting about your view points on the Rams
I just look at teams as needing stars at the skill positions and then solid dependable almost no-namers playing with guts. We just lost one of my favorites in Rodney McLeod, but I got guys like Wichman, Roberson, Jamon, Mo, and Barnes. These guys make a team. Guys like Reynolds most especially, he was pretty damn solid last year.

So my thoughts are only he fits perfectly in the plans. And this off-season will look like the friggin Sistine chapel for Demoff and Co. if Snead and Fisher can manage to offload Nick Folds and then get a guy like Goff or Lynch in the upcoming draft - they are thinking about it years in advance

Yeah so I agree, we could have gotten a better C than Barnes but where? And at what price?

After not making it to they playoffs -- let alone 8-8 - I'm totally okay with rolling with a MINI-REBUILD of sorts and roll with the Young cheap ones we have on our roster like Rainey, and Folkerts, and I'm missing somebody.

I hope they are looking to draft a nice versatile offensive lineman in this draft who can play center - the higher up the better. There are three good ones out there for sure

 

[woofwoofmo]

Sorry, I missed this one. There is also a reason the Rams were talking to the agent of Alex Mack.

So was about every other team in the league.....

 

[Zaphod]

I'm good with Barnes and glad they did not go for Mack at more than $10M'year, been there done that and it didn't work out. The Rams are building through the draft and making reasonable signing through FA. Barnes is the reason the Rams won in Seattle. He played well considering the guys around him were a carrousel during the middle of the season and he was trying to help the rookies along. He knows the system and the experience those other guys got will make this unit better going forward. Do they draft another guy to start grooming? Maybe but they still have some holes to fill and that might be a luxury this year.

I really think that the coaches determine that on their own opinion of our existing depth at center ... well that and if they happen to be gifted with an exceptional value for the center position at some point in the draft.

To me, the real issue is how bad does line play degrade should Rhaney have to start at center.

We worry about all of the holes this teams, but Barnes alleviates that with the experience and level of play he brings all for fair compensation. Yeah, in a sense, this horse is so dead that it requires expert necromancy necessary to resurrect it for another solid thrashing.

 

[fearsomefour]

Why should we settle for servicable? Why should we go get the best center available?

It should be about improving the position, you are right.
However the best C on the market is 30 and injury prone (Mack). Atlanta paid good money for him. Wiz is out there. Is he that much better to demand a higher salary? I don't know.
Overpaying guys for the appearance of improvement is as bad as change for change sake. This is why resigning both Barnes and Quick makes sense.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Yeah so I agree, we could have gotten a better C than Barnes but where? And at what price?

.

The Rams have what looks like a good young set of Guards and OTs. But they are all younger. If they were able to afford a veteran Center it would have been a great way to plug in a vet......at the weakest link (no disrespect but that is Barnes). Why? Because that allows them to start Wichman/Brown at G and the Tackles don't change.

Without a veteran at Center they may be thinking they need to keep at least one veteran on that Oline. Just like last season. So who sacrifices playing time? A guard. So either Brown or Wichman don't get to start and we see Reynolds or Saffold in their place. Signing Mack could have optimized things for developing the promising Guards that most of us think we have.

On a side note: It isn't necessary to have all pros across the line and not likely. If a team has 3/5 of the line be good players it is usually pretty successful. In 4 years GRob is a free agent along with Brown, Wichman, and Havenstien ( I think it is all 4 years). So the entire line will be a threat to bolt for more money. The Rams need to develop them all ASAP so they get max value out of them and also have a real good handle on what they have. They wont be able to keep them all.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

So was about every other team in the league.....

We are talking about the Rams.

What is better. Starting your 4 young promising Olinemen at Tackle and Guard with a veteran Center to lead them and replace the league average or less guy.........or ..............plugging in Saffold or Reynolds and taking away time from one of the guards or Tackles so they have a veteran presence on the line?

I am speculating here but I really think that this is the way it will go down.

 

[den-the-coach]

I'm good either way!

 

[Ladoc]

It's not a case of Barnes being unfairly picked out - they aren't explicitly biased against him - rather it's a case of PFF's analysis is wildly inaccurate, so much that it's worthless or close to it for evaluating the OL.

Let me ask you - since Barnes is so weak, according to PFF - how did Gurley get Offensive ROY, and why did the Rams give up so few sacks? Especially the latter - if he were so weak you would expect the QB to be routinely flushed out of the pocket to be hit by the DEs. Are you claiming that the Rams OTs are so awesome they could withstand a horrible center?

Or perhaps, PFF did not actually understand what the Ram OL calls were, and graded players incorrectly?

My impression is this: I hope and believe Gurley will be a star but if you remove a dozen runs of his from the year, his average becomes pedestrian. Thus the vast majority of his runs were behind the entire line and were not impressive. They certainly were not opening holes like Dennis harrah and company were opening for ED. I also think there were fewer sacks partly because we threw the ball less. It is no shocking surprise that our offense is absolutely terrible and if it were not from less than a dozen highlight runs from Gurley it would be worse. The majority of those runs were yardage "he" got beyond the line of scrimmage without their help. Listen I am a huge ram fan too and have been since 1965. I SO HOPE Gurley does well. I think our line is critical and will make a major jump next year and getting the rookies experience will help so much. I think next year Gurley will be better partly because of that. However back to Barnes.. I wish he was better and maybe I don't think he is as good as you do. I happen to feel he is one of the week links with limited upside. PFF graded him just like they grade others. If you want to throw out his grades by them then throw out ok of their grades on evryone? How did they grade Greg Robinson? Were they wrong with him too? So, I watch the games like you and see him pushed around more than "I" like. He is the best we have but I wish we had someone better. I would prefer MIKE Webster.. Is that wrong? Lol if everyone thought he was the answer there would not be a thread on this topic.

 

[CoachO]

You his daddy? Best friend (seems it) or just a stalker? either way he is not getting paid Mack money so what does that tell you? Stick to the point. He is not in demand as a top center in the NFL. If he was the Rams would have been deciding if they were going to give him 10 million a year or let him go. Teams want him on the cheap. He can be upgraded.

Not his daddy. And thanks for the personal attack. Lotta class.

But I'm also not one of these people that gauge a players ability based on what some teams are willing to over pay for. Atlanta will not get the return on the investment on an aging player in the backside of his career. (See Scott Wells).

People like you seem to think anything less than a ProBowl caliber player at every position is somehow reason for failure. Wake up. It's not realistic.

Tim Barnes is/was a major improvement over the level of play this team has been forced to deal with for a very long time. And he's only going to get better. I also know that his positional coach was very instrumental in bringing him back. So I'll defer to the real experts here rather than a message board wannabe GM

I honesty wonder what some of you are looking at when you watch the game.

 

[bubbaramfan]

Before last year, Tim Barnes had only started four games. He started all sixteen last year. With that experience and an off season of the weight room and strength and conditioning coaches, he should be better this coming season. Barnes last season biggest problem was getting pushed back into the pocket. I think Barnes is an average center at best, the rams really had no choice but to re-sign him. Alex Mack would cost to much and is over 30. Wiesnewski is not much of an upgrade. There was no one else in FA. I expect the Rams to draft a center and learn the NFL behind Barnes for a year or two.

 

[Leuzer]

 

[CoachO]

Before last year, Tim Barnes had only started four games. He started all sixteen last year. With that experience and an off season of the weight room and strength and conditioning coaches, he should be better this coming season. Barnes last season biggest problem was getting pushed back into the pocket. I think Barnes is an average center at best, the rams really had no choice but to re-sign him. Alex Mack would cost to much and is over 30. Wiesnewski is not much of an upgrade. There was no one else in FA. I expect the Rams to draft a center and learn the NFL behind Barnes for a year or two.

Here's the thing. Seems people like to say that Barnes tends to get pushed back into the pocket. What isn't being taken into account, more often than not a center just isn't going to be isolated one on one In pass protections. When it happens it's normally because someone else either got beat or missed an assignment. Centers aren't considered "whole" blockers, but are expected to be the pass off guy or help inside when the Guards are beaten or overmatched. Even when head up on a NT centers are expecting help from the player next to him. Just the way it is. So when people are quick to point the finger at Barnes (or any center) the first thing I ask is who was playing next to him?

It's no coincidence that the games where Barnes appeared to struggle where the games when a completely raw and overmatched Donnal was at Guard. Or when they tried Rhaney at Guard.

Once Wichmann got his feet under him and they were able to put Reynolds back at LG Barnes' play improved. Or at least in the eyes of all the so called experts. Coincidence? Doubtful.

 

[RamFan503]

Hahha yeah for sure
But I know Rich Saul, Rich Saul was a friend of mine, and Alex Mack is no Rich Saul

Pulling out your inner Reagan I see.

 

[Akrasian]

Pulling out your inner Reagan I see.

I'm dating myself - it was Lloyd Bentsen, slapping down Dan Quayle who had kept comparing himself to JFK. "I served with Jack Kennedy. I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy."

 

[Dieter the Brock]

Pulling out your inner Reagan I see.

Sure am hahahahah
Bentsen v Quayle

 

[RamFan503]

You his daddy? Best friend (seems it) or just a stalker? either way he is not getting paid Mack money so what does that tell you? Stick to the point. He is not in demand as a top center in the NFL. If he was the Rams would have been deciding if they were going to give him 10 million a year or let him go. Teams want him on the cheap. He can be upgraded.

Really man? Not a good approach. And not to defend @CoachO - I'm sure he can do just fine on his own but he was simply refuting that there was NO outside interest in Barnes. I find it interesting that Barnes was pursued by the team that ended up with Mack. Do you really think they would have taken both? Or is it even remotely possible they saw good upside in Barnes, he would have been an upgrade to what they had, and if they could have landed him, it would have freed up money to sign elsewhere while giving them a pretty decent center.

We don't really know - do we? But what we can assume is that other teams were looking at him for a reason. He has very little tape thus far so OF COURSE no one is going to offer him bank based on late season improvement and potential upside unless he looked like a sure fire top level center. The jury is still out.

 

[RamFan503]

I'm dating myself - it was Lloyd Bentsen, slapping down Dan Quayle who had kept comparing himself to JFK. "I served with Jack Kennedy. I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy."

My bad - I think you're right.