This Guy Is Believable?

[Rams and Gators]

So those metrics are false? Bradford really hasn't been hurt often? Bradford's cap number is not high? Other QB's haven't done more with equal or lesser talent?
Everyone quickly bashes/dismisses any criticism of Bradford

Name any QB who has had lesser talent, they don't even have to have done more, just the lesser talent will do.

 

[Thordaddy]

So those metrics are false? Bradford really hasn't been hurt often? Bradford's cap number is not high? Other QB's haven't done more with equal or lesser talent?
Everyone quickly bashes/dismisses any criticism of Bradford

Not "everyone" and if the "other QB's " who have done more with equal or lesser talent were the same age ,available,healthier etc. ...............they might be an option. But I have a hunch when you find those guys they are probably thought by some to be elite ,so OK maybe Sam isn't elite, but he's the best alternative this team has got and people who advise people with ALL the skin in the game to dump the guy, they ask to be bashed or agreed with.

BTW if you will check I have posted in this thread and I don't think I bashed nor dismissed the guy, I just added perspective.
Glad to know you aren't a blind follower, hope you weren't inferring anyone else was, that wouldn't be nice.

 

[Boffo97]

Now back to Bradford. He has not helped bring any championships to the rams (not entirely his fault) nor is he even close to being the top player at his position. That is why I am only a Bradford supporter and not an aplogist. Even if healthy, I don't know if I believe he is all that great. And did I mention his cap space is ridiculous...im just saying.........

Are you REALLY going to go the "call people who disagree with me an apologist" route?

REALLY?

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

How could I forget Watt? Early onset Alzheimer's maybe. Hope not.

 

[blackbart]

FWIW I had Sam starting on one of my fantasy teams last year (2013) and was doing quite well.

As for the notion that he might FINALLY develop or he might FINALLY show why the Rams drafted him I don't know what everyone else has been watching but he did win offensive ROY and put up then record numbers for a rookie starting QB. He also had the Rams in play and you are in games 2 seasons with crap for weapons around him (except SJ39), an offensive line that got him beat up in his second year and new OC's each of his first 3 years.

When will these posts ever go away? a couple of SB wins probably still would not be enough

 

[RamFan503]

So those metrics are false? Bradford really hasn't been hurt often? Bradford's cap number is not high? Other QB's haven't done more with equal or lesser talent?
Everyone quickly bashes/dismisses any criticism of Bradford

It's not about dismissing. It's about not agreeing with your version of "reality". Many on here have broken down actual game tape on Sam. We've noted the issues. I don't think many are saying he is the definition of greatness or anything. You can't ignore the circumstances, go by only stats, and make a blanket statement that it's time to move on. If you do, expect those who don't agree to NOT AGREE.

I look at the QBs that have supposedly lit it up as rookies. Most of them truly have NOT lit it up in reality. Some have but most have played ok while a very good team around them has paved the way. But name the QBs that have come into the league since Bradford. How many would you really take ahead of him? How many of them have actually improved the play of those around them?

There have been 47 QBs drafted since Sam was drafted - 47! Of that list, 11 have been 1st rounders. There is ONE QB other than Sam on that list I would want heading up my team. There maybe 6 truly starting quality QBs out of those 47 besides Sam. Are you really going to sit there and say any of the 2014 QBs are going to buck that trend? MAYBE is a bad choice to me.

We are not trying to build a team through FA here. So far, I don't really see Sam's contract being anything that holds us back. Can you name a player we have missed out on because we couldn't afford him?

So - it's not that we come to Sam's defense. It's (at least for me) that I've heard it ad nauseum. I get it. It's an opinion that I view as wrong headed. But you're entitled to that. Just don't accuse those who don't agree with you of sticking their head in the sand. If anything - it's stat junkies and people who refuse to look at all aspects that are ignoring the information readily available to them.

 

[Rams and Gators]

Sort of off topic, sort of on topic, does anyone know where to find weekly dropped passes? I can find the season rates for which the Rams were 3rd, but I could swear we were 1st when Sam went down.

 

[OnceARam]

Name any QB who has had lesser talent, they don't even have to have done more, just the lesser talent will do.

Tom Brady. Andrew Luck. That's two.

 

[jrry32]

Sort of off topic, sort of on topic, does anyone know where to find weekly dropped passes? I can find the season rates for which the Rams were 3rd, but I could swear we were 1st when Sam went down.

I believe we were second to Denver when Sam went down. According to PFF, Sam's WRs dropped the fourth highest percentage of passes(8.0%) this year behind Stafford, Weeden and Brady.

For Kellen Clemens, the drop% was 5.8% which was right about average.

 

[jrry32]

Tom Brady. Andrew Luck. That's two.

Luck? The guy with Reggie Wayne and T.Y. Hilton? I gotta shoot that down. With Brady, I wouldn't say lesser but I'll give you equal talent...back in the day.

 

[Rams and Gators]

I believe we were second to Denver when Sam went down. According to PFF, Sam's WRs dropped the fourth highest percentage of passes(8.0%) this year behind Stafford, Weeden and Brady.

For Kellen Clemens, the drop% was 5.8% which was right about average.

Thanks I thought it was around that mark.

 

[OnceARam]

Luck? The guy with Reggie Wayne and T.Y. Hilton? I gotta shoot that down. With Brady, I wouldn't say lesser but I'll give you equal talent...back in the day.

Reggie Wayne got her, remember? And T.Y. Hilton is not considered top flight talent by any stretch of the imagination. Definitely not any better than the WR we have on our roster.

So I stand my my earlier statement. Thank you for only making it stronger.

 

[jrry32]

Reggie Wayne got her, remember? And T.Y. Hilton is not considered top flight talent by any stretch of the imagination. Definitely not any better than the WR we have on our roster.

So I stand my my earlier statement. Thank you for only making it stronger.

T.Y. Hilton is better than any WR we have on our roster. By far.(at this point, at least)

Not to mention, they had Coby Fleener as well(their own Jared Cook).

 

[RamFan503]

Reggie Wayne got her, remember? And T.Y. Hilton is not considered top flight talent by any stretch of the imagination. Definitely not any better than the WR we have on our roster.

So I stand my my earlier statement. Thank you for only making it stronger.

I will give you Luck. Given the two being in the same draft - I'd probably take Luck. But are you going to say that Sam has anywhere NEAR the time in the pocket that Brady enjoys? Really? Or does an amazing O-line not count as talent?

 

[OnceARam]

T.Y. Hilton is better than any WR we have on our roster. By far.(at this point, at least)

Not to mention, they had Coby Fleener as well(their own Jared Cook).

I respect your opinion - that "T.Y. Hilton is better than any WR we have on our roster. By far."

But I just don't agree with you. I really don't.

I think T.Y. has speed and that's all. I think Luck throws him open.

You saw what happened to T.Y. once a team double covered him in the playoffs. He disappeared... totally disappeared like a ghost... he became the ghost of T.Y. Hilton...

If he was "good" that wouldn't have happened to the extent that it did.

 

[kurtfaulk]

Reggie Wayne got her, remember? And T.Y. Hilton is not considered top flight talent by any stretch of the imagination. Definitely not any better than the WR we have on our roster.

So I stand my my earlier statement. Thank you for only making it stronger.

yeah, and when wayne went down luck's stats went down the tube.

not sure how it makes your statement stronger.

.

 

[OnceARam]

I will give you Luck. Given the two being in the same draft - I'd probably take Luck. But are you going to say that Sam has anywhere NEAR the time in the pocket that Brady enjoys? Really? Or does an amazing O-line not count as talent?

I was thinking skill position. From an OL perspective you are 100% correct. The Patriots OL has been a think of beauty for the last decade. They're FO, over that period of time, has put ours to shame. Absolutely.

I will also point out however that part of protection is the QB's ability to get the ball out of his hand. If you look at stats that talk about how well a QB does vs. the blitz, Brady is pretty high up there. Again you point about the OL is valid, but a big part of it is how fast a QB can read and react.

 

[OnceARam]

yeah, and when wayne went down luck's stats went down the tube.

not sure how it makes your statement stronger.

.

You're right. His stats did suffer dramatically when Wayne went down. But he kept winning games, with the likes of T.Y. "Ghost" Hilton.

Anyway, I thought you weren't a "stats guy"? Guess you are when they serve your purpose, just like the rest of us.

 

[jrry32]

I respect your opinion - that "T.Y. Hilton is better than any WR we have on our roster. By far."

But I just don't agree with you. I really don't.

I think T.Y. has speed and that's all. I think Luck throws him open.

You saw what happened to T.Y. once a team double covered him in the playoffs. He disappeared... totally disappeared like a ghost... he became the ghost of T.Y. Hilton...

If he was "good" that wouldn't have happened to the extent that it did.

Honestly, I didn't see that because T.Y. Hilton had 327 yards and 2 TDs in 2 playoff games.

As far as Luck "throwing him open"...

Seems pretty open to me. That's ONLY from the playoffs. If that's going ghost, I wish Rams WRs did that more often.

 

[RamFan503]

I was thinking skill position. From an OL perspective you are 100% correct. The Patriots OL has been a think of beauty for the last decade. They're FO, over that period of time, has put ours to shame. Absolutely.

I will also point out however that part of protection is the QB's ability to get the ball out of his hand. If you look at stats that talk about how well a QB does vs. the blitz, Brady is pretty high up there. Again you point about the OL is valid, but a big part of it is how fast a QB can read and react.

And part of how a QB does in the face of a blitz is how well the offense picks up the blitz and if a receiver sees the hot read instead of having the ball hit him in the back. Think about it. How did Brady do in his last two SBs? How did he do against Denver's mediocre defense with all day to throw for the most part? Aside from during prevent time of course. So no - I don't view Brady as someone who makes his players better without that O-line.