The small NFL stadium experiment...could it be the start of a trend?

[Merlin]

No.

 

[jrry32]

Or does the NFL mandate the minimum seating capacity for teams?

If not, then the Chargers playing a few years in the much smaller stadium might pose an opportunity for cities or team owners or both to arrive at a much more cost effective solution for future stadiums.

The fans in attendance will certainly benefit from a much smaller stadium. Much closer to the field of play. Much smaller crowd to deal with. Less traffic to deal with in the vicinity of the stadium. Easier to sell out games to get the games broadcast locally. Would most likely increase the price of tickets though.

Some stadiums around the NFL are already blocking off sections of the stands that they cannot fill and others are buying out seats to have the game broadcast locally. Smaller stadiums closer to 40,000 may be the future compared to the 70,000+ that seem to be the norm today.

We'll see what happens in 2017, but the NFL suspended the blackout rule in both 2015 and 2016.(i.e., no local blackouts) Here's a link from before the meetings:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/n...-approve-raiders-to-las-vegas-speed-up-games/

Unfortunately, there's nothing on what the owners did with the blackout rules after the meetings, so we'll have to wait and see.

 

[bnw]

We'll see what happens in 2017, but the NFL suspended the blackout rule in both 2015 and 2016.(i.e., no local blackouts) Here's a link from before the meetings:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/n...-approve-raiders-to-las-vegas-speed-up-games/

Unfortunately, there's nothing on what the owners did with the blackout rules after the meetings, so we'll have to wait and see.

Thanks I didn't know that. Where I live the blackout rules don't apply.

 

[Zodi]

Modern doesn't have much to do with it. It is the climate which is almost always warm weather for the 2 weeks before the game. Any stadium can put in for it but doesn't mean they will get it. The NFL was surprised by the ice storm in Atlanta for Super Bowl 34 which is usually decent that time of year which only reaffirmed their desire to keep the event in warm weather. Only 4 locations (I'm including Indy) north of the Mason-Dixon Line have had a Super Bowl. Of the remaining 11 locations 7 are in the south and 4 in the west. Cities having hosted the game are as follows:

Miami 10 times
New Orleans 10 times
Los Angeles 7
Tampa 4
San Diego 3
Phoenix 3
Houston 3
Atlanta 2
Detroit 2
San Francisco 2
Minneapolis 1
Jacksonville 1
Dallas 1
Indianapolis 1
New York metro 1

In a 32 team league 7 cities account for 60% of the games.

From Wikipedia:

Selection process[edit]
The location of the Super Bowl is chosen by the NFL well in advance, usually three to five years before the game. Cities place bids to host a Super Bowl and are evaluated in terms of stadium renovation and their ability to host.[42][48] In 2014, a document listing the specific requirements of Super Bowl hosts was leaked, giving a clear list of what was required for a Super Bowl host.[49] Much of the cost of the Super Bowl is to be assumed by the host community, although some costs are enumerated within the requirements to be assumed by the NFL. Some of the host requirements include:

• The host stadium must be in a market that hosts an NFL team and must have a minimum of 70,000 seats, with the media and electrical amenities necessary to produce the Super Bowl. Stadiums may include temporary seating for Super Bowls, but seating must be approved by the league. Stadiums where the average game day temperature is below 50° Fahrenheit must either have a roof, or a waiver given by the league. There must be a minimum of 35,000 parking spaces within one mile of the stadium.
• The host stadium must have space for the Gameday Experience, a large pregame entertainment area, within walking distance of the stadium.
• The host city must have space for the NFL Experience, the interactive football theme park which is operated the week prior to the Super Bowl. An indoor venue for the event must have a minimum of 850,000 square feet, and an outdoor venue must have a minimum of 1,000,000 square feet. Additionally, there must be space nearby for the Media Center, and space for all other events involved in the Super Bowl week, including golf courses and bowling alleys.
• The necessary infrastructure must be in place around the stadium and other Super Bowl facilities, including parking, security, electrical needs, media needs, communication needs and transportation needs.
• There must be a minimum number of hotel spaces within one hour's drive of the stadium equaling 35% of the stadium's capacity, along with hotels for the teams, officials, media and other dignitaries. (For Super Bowl XXXIX, the city of Jacksonville docked several luxury cruise liners at their port to act as temporary hotel space.[50])
• There must be practice space of equal and comparable quality for both teams within a 20-minute drive of the team hotels, and rehearsal space for all events within a reasonable distance to the stadium. The practice facilities must have one grass field and at least one field of the same surface as the host stadium.
• The stadium must have a minimum of 70,000 fixed seats, including club and fixed suite seating, during regular season operations.

The NFL owners meet to make a selection on the site, usually three to five years prior to the event. In 2007, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell suggested that a Super Bowl might be played in London, perhaps at Wembley Stadium.[51] The game has never been played in a region that lacks an NFL franchise; seven Super Bowls have been played in Los Angeles, but none were held there in the 21-year period when the league had no team in the area. New Orleans, the site of the 2013 Super Bowl, invested more than $1 billion in infrastructure improvements in the years leading up to the game.[52]

Yeah, mostly everything mentioned falls in line with modern stadiums. Just look at where the last few Superbowls have been hosted, and where the next ones are going to be.

Fact is, there hasn't been a newly built stadium in the NFL in a while that hasn't hosted a Superbowl shortly after being opened, which was my original point of being opposing to your idea that "Lots of large stadiums are built with no chance of hosting a Super Bowl." That's simply not true, which is evident by your inability to name a single modern NFL stadium built that hasn't hosted a Superbowl. Lincoln Financial Field was opened in 2003, but fails to meet the 70,000 seating requirement. After that, you have to go back to 2001 when Mile High Stadium in Denver opened, in order to find such a "large" stadium built without the intention of ever hosting a Superbowl. Almost twenty years ago.

So I think it's safe to say that modern NFL stadiums are definitely being built with consideration by the NFL, cities and owners, that it'll eventually host a Superbowl. Hosting a Superbowl offsets some of the costs cities take on when it comes to building new NFL stadiums. It's a no brainer.

 

[bnw]

Yeah, mostly everything mentioned falls in line with modern stadiums. Just look at where the last few Superbowls have been hosted, and where the next ones are going to be.

Fact is, there hasn't been a newly built stadium in the NFL in a while that hasn't hosted a Superbowl shortly after being opened, which was my original point of being opposing to your idea that "Lots of large stadiums are built with no chance of hosting a Super Bowl." That's simply not true, which is evident by your inability to name a single modern NFL stadium built that hasn't hosted a Superbowl. Lincoln Financial Field was opened in 2003, but fails to meet the 70,000 seating requirement. After that, you have to go back to 2001 when Mile High Stadium in Denver opened, in order to find such a "large" stadium built without the intention of ever hosting a Superbowl. Almost twenty years ago.

So I think it's safe to say that modern NFL stadiums are definitely being built with consideration by the NFL, cities and owners, that it'll eventually host a Superbowl. Hosting a Superbowl offsets some of the costs cities take on when it comes to building new NFL stadiums. It's a no brainer.

Apparently we differ on what constitutes a modern stadium. I consider any stadium with a roof, retractable or not to be a modern stadium. So that the game experience will not be impacted by weather. However the two weeks prior to the game are used by the NFL to ramp up interest in the game and the NFL would rather not have events in nor people traveling to a cold clime. The history is clear. 7 cities alone account for 60% of the Super Bowls played. It is not coincidence. The NFL prefers the venue to have warm weather.

Which modern NFL stadiums are those? I'm curious.

You used the term modern, I didn't. Though those teams in cold weather climes will likely be the ones not hosting a Super Bowl as the history is clear that it is preferably played in warm weather. Soldier Field was renovated in 2003, no Super Bowl. Lincoln Financial Field in Philadelphia (69,176 capacity) was built in 2003, no Super Bowl. Yet NRG stadium in Houston built in 2002 has already hosted two Super Bowls. The Dome in St. Louis was built in 1995 and never hosted a Super Bowl. Yet Tampa's stadium was built in 1998 and will host its third Super Bowl in a few years.


The next few Super Bowls are as follows:
2018 Minneapolis (new stadium, cold climate)
2019 Atlanta (new stadium)
2020 Miami (old stadium)
2021 Tampa (old stadium)
2022 Los Angeles (new stadium)

As for newly built stadiums wanting "consideration" to host a Super Bowl....sure why not? Doesn't mean they will get one. If they are in a cold clime there is less of a chance.

 

[Selassie I]

Apparently we differ on what constitutes a modern stadium. I consider any stadium with a roof, retractable or not to be a modern stadium. So that the game experience will not be impacted by weather. However the two weeks prior to the game are used by the NFL to ramp up interest in the game and the NFL would rather not have events in nor people traveling to a cold clime. The history is clear. 7 cities alone account for 60% of the Super Bowls played. It is not coincidence. The NFL prefers the venue to have warm weather.



You used the term modern, I didn't. Though those teams in cold weather climes will likely be the ones not hosting a Super Bowl as the history is clear that it is preferably played in warm weather. Soldier Field was renovated in 2003, no Super Bowl. Lincoln Financial Field in Philadelphia (69,176 capacity) was built in 2003, no Super Bowl. Yet NRG stadium in Houston built in 2002 has already hosted two Super Bowls. The Dome in St. Louis was built in 1995 and never hosted a Super Bowl. Yet Tampa's stadium was built in 1998 and will host its third Super Bowl in a few years.


The next few Super Bowls are as follows:
2018 Minneapolis (new stadium, cold climate)
2019 Atlanta (new stadium)
2020 Miami (old stadium)
2021 Tampa (old stadium)
2022 Los Angeles (new stadium)

As for newly built stadiums wanting "consideration" to host a Super Bowl....sure why not? Doesn't mean they will get one. If they are in a cold clime there is less of a chance.

Miami and Tampa's stadiums aren't really that old. Especially Miami's.

 

[SteezyEndo]

Miami and Tampa's stadiums aren't really that old. Especially Miami's.

Is it still called Joe Robbie Stadium?

I can see this, but at an nfl level no. I know in England there are like 10 different stadiums that clubs play in and they host enough for a good amount...

 

[Selassie I]

Is it still called Joe Robbie Stadium?

It's Hard Rock stadium.

 

[bnw]

Miami and Tampa's stadiums aren't really that old. Especially Miami's.

Miami's Hard Rock Stadium is 30 years old and has hosted 5 Super Bowls and Tampa's Raymond James Stadium is 19 years old and has already hosted 2 Super Bowls.

 

[Selassie I]

Miami's Hard Rock Stadium is 30 years old and has hosted 5 Super Bowls and Tampa's Raymond James Stadium is 19 years old and has already hosted 2 Super Bowls.

Well... there was a $425 million renovation completed on Hard Rock stadium in 2016. It's almost like a brand new stadium.

And Tampon has done over $150 million in renovations to Ray J in the last 2 years.

 

[Zodi]

You used the term modern, I didn't.

"Lots of large stadiums are built with no chance of hosting a Super Bowl."

You can see why I did. In the modern era of the NFL, large (important part) stadiums simply aren't being built without the intent of hosting a Superbowl. The term "modern" is important, because previously to 2010, Superbowls were definitely hosted in cold weather climates.

You used the term "lots" but have yet to name a single "large" stadium (say, 70k seats) that has been built without the intention of hosting a Superbowl. As I pointed out, you have to go back to 2001 to find the first example. Wouldn't exactly call that "lots." And some might argue that almost two decades ago isn't exactly modern, with the exponential growth the NFL is seeing.

My original point to all this was that I think there is definitely a correlation when it comes to new stadium sizes and whether or not that stadium can host a Superbowl, per the NFL requirements.

 

[bnw]

"Lots of large stadiums are built with no chance of hosting a Super Bowl."

You can see why I did. In the modern era of the NFL, large (important part) stadiums simply aren't being built without the intent of hosting a Superbowl. The term "modern" is important, because previously to 2010, Superbowls were definitely hosted in cold weather climates.

You used the term "lots" but have yet to name a single "large" stadium (say, 70k seats) that has been built without the intention of hosting a Superbowl. As I pointed out, you have to go back to 2001 to find the first example. Wouldn't exactly call that "lots." And some might argue that almost two decades ago isn't exactly modern, with the exponential growth the NFL is seeing.

My original point to all this was that I think there is definitely a correlation when it comes to new stadium sizes and whether or not that stadium can host a Superbowl, per the NFL requirements.

I can't predict which stadiums will be built in the future nor where. If you can then good for you. You wish to debate the word "large" now? OK that is stadiums considerably larger than the 30,000 seat stadium this thread is about. So a 50,000 seat stadium would certainly be considered large compared to it. And since no team has averaged less than 50,000 fans in the last 5 years large can be subjective since I'm not aware of any 100,000 seat NFL stadiums being built recently.

I have to take issue with your "The term "modern" is important, because previously to 2010, Superbowls were definitely hosted in cold weather climates." since we've already been down this road. Only 12% (6 out of 51 Super Bowls held in 4 cities) have been played in cold climes. The correlation is clear that the preference of the NFL irrespective of the "modernity" of a stadium is to hold the event in a warm clime. Do you really believe St. Louis, Nashville, Philadelphia, Denver, Charlotte, Cincinnati, DC, Baltimore, Cleveland and Seattle with new stadiums never wanted to host a Super Bowl? Or Kansas City, Green Bay, Chicago, Buffalo, Boston, and Pittsburgh never wanted to host a Super Bowl? And no the 70,000 seat requirement is not set in stone since temporary seating is allowed and a Super Bowl has already been played with an attendance as few as 63,000.

Philadelphia is a case in point since the stadium is 14 years old and the city despite all of its infrastructure has never hosted a Super Bowl. The following is an excerpt from the article 'Will the Super Bowl ever be hosted by Philadelphia?'-

“Assuming the NFL is willing to go to a cold-weather site again, there is no reason why Philadelphia can’t contend,” said former Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell. “We’ve got a state-of-the-art stadium, enough hotels, including luxury hotels, plenty of great restaurants and a history of hosting big events.”

“That’s why the Pope is coming here,” Rendell said. “That’s why the Republican National Convention came here and why the Democrats are considering it, and why we have hosted international music festivals and all the other events on the (Benjamin Franklin) Parkway. There’s no doubt we can do it.”“If Jeffrey wants to pursue it, he really should,” Rendell added.

The New York pick came after four rounds of voting by NFL owners. The New York pick came after four rounds of voting by NFL owners.The selection has been alternately described as a tip of the hat to the Mara family, who founded the Giants franchise in 1925, and a reward for the construction of MetLife Stadium, the $1.6 billion home of the Giants and Jets.

While some ridiculed the NFL for exposing the most-watched television event in U.S. history to the possibility of crippling snow and ice, the game went off seamlessly thanks to unseasonably high temperatures. (Heavy snow arrived a day later.)

 

[Leuzer]

With more and more people watching online and on tv and fewer attending games, the smaller, upscale stadium has a chance to catch on.

As the current prices show, people are willing to pay for a MUCH better view in a smaller venue. I've been to StubHub to watch the LA Galaxy and it's really hard to describe that there ARE NO BAD SEATS THERE. There are no "nose bleed" seats where you rely on the crowd and jumbotron to really convey the action moreso than what you're actually seeing. Many of the crappiest seats in a large venue are significantly worse than any at home experience with the only benefits being tailgating and "being there".

If a team that's struggling to fill a large venue went with this concept (presuming they still had luxury boxes and all the accoutrement), then the smaller, upscale venue is definitely an option. The event remains being an "event" while the organization has greater opportunities to upsell and upscale the venue to allow for greater profit margins.

This is what I'm talking about. I've been to four Sporting Kansas City games the past 3 years because attending an MLS game really is unlike any other US professional sport. Whether you sit at midfield, behind the goal, 3 rows up from the field, or at the top corner, it always feels like you're sitting right by the action. And no matter where you sit, the price is almost always affordable.

There's a $92 ticket for the Texans vs Rams regular season game in the "Lower 14L" section 22 rows up a little ways behind the endzone.

There's also a $92 ticket for the Browns vs Chargers regular season game in the "Lower Endzone 123" section only 5 rows up and the field is practically right behind the endzone.

I don't see NFL stadiums getting smaller any time soon, but since the Chargers are playing in one, it would make sense for their fans to make the most out of it while they can.

 

[CGI_Ram]

http://www.espn.com/blog/los-angele...about-stubhub-after-joint-scrimmage-with-rams

Chargers rave about StubHub after joint scrimmage with Rams

CARSON, Calif. -- Yes, some players for the Los Angeles Chargers had not played in a stadium this small -- the 30,000-seat StubHub Center -- since high school.

But that did not stop the Chargers from praising the team's temporary home after playing there for the first time Saturday in a joint practice with the team's new crosstown rival, the Los Angeles Rams.

"The atmosphere is amazing," Chargers defensive end Melvin Ingram said. "Everybody's all close. It's just a warm feeling, and I like that feeling. I love this place."

An estimated 8,000, according to the team, showed up to watch the Chargers in their new home. Even though the facility was less than half full, that was by design. The fully padded practice was open to Chargers season-ticket holders and those on the wait list. Seating was to be limited to the lower bowl.

"It was an awesome environment," Chargers head coach Anthony Lynn said. "The players loved it. I can't wait to play here."

Lynn went on to say the groundskeepers for the LA Galaxy of Major League Soccer did a nice job on the field, and it's one of the best playing surfaces he's experienced.

"I think it will be cool when we get a packed house in here," Chargers defensive end Joey Bosa said. "It's a nice, new stadium. We were focused on practice, so we kind of drowned out the crowd noise. But I think it will be nice and loud on game days, and a fun atmosphere.”

Chargers quarterback Philip Rivers took some time to get accustomed to his new surrounding after 13 seasons playing home games at Qualcomm Stadium.

"I know as a passer, I like to get all of the sight lines with the depth perception and everything," Rivers said. "I like to get that kind of situated -- where play clocks are, all of those things.

"It's just those things that obviously you have all preseason to do, but every time you're in here you take advantage of it."

No doubt, Rivers is a creature of habit. But after experiencing the new environment and playing against another team, Rivers said he could get used to this place.

"I think it's going to be awesome,” Rivers said. "There's no bad seat in the house. Everybody's going to have a great seat and be up close to the action. Now it's our job to put a competitive team on the field that wins, and makes this fan base proud."

 

[OldSchool]

The next few Super Bowls are as follows:
2018 Minneapolis (new stadium, cold climate)
2019 Atlanta (new stadium)
2020 Miami (old stadium)
2021 Tampa (old stadium)
2022 Los Angeles (new stadium)

While Miami and Tampa may be classified as old they both recently received some major work/remodel. That's the reason they are hosting SB's. They put money into the stadium so they get "rewarded".

 

[bnw]

http://www.espn.com/blog/los-angele...about-stubhub-after-joint-scrimmage-with-rams

Chargers rave about StubHub after joint scrimmage with Rams

CARSON, Calif. -- Yes, some players for the Los Angeles Chargers had not played in a stadium this small -- the 30,000-seat StubHub Center -- since high school.

But that did not stop the Chargers from praising the team's temporary home after playing there for the first time Saturday in a joint practice with the team's new crosstown rival, the Los Angeles Rams.

"The atmosphere is amazing," Chargers defensive end Melvin Ingram said. "Everybody's all close. It's just a warm feeling, and I like that feeling. I love this place."

An estimated 8,000, according to the team, showed up to watch the Chargers in their new home. Even though the facility was less than half full, that was by design. The fully padded practice was open to Chargers season-ticket holders and those on the wait list. Seating was to be limited to the lower bowl.

"It was an awesome environment," Chargers head coach Anthony Lynn said. "The players loved it. I can't wait to play here."

Lynn went on to say the groundskeepers for the LA Galaxy of Major League Soccer did a nice job on the field, and it's one of the best playing surfaces he's experienced.

"I think it will be cool when we get a packed house in here," Chargers defensive end Joey Bosa said. "It's a nice, new stadium. We were focused on practice, so we kind of drowned out the crowd noise. But I think it will be nice and loud on game days, and a fun atmosphere.”

Chargers quarterback Philip Rivers took some time to get accustomed to his new surrounding after 13 seasons playing home games at Qualcomm Stadium.

"I know as a passer, I like to get all of the sight lines with the depth perception and everything," Rivers said. "I like to get that kind of situated -- where play clocks are, all of those things.

"It's just those things that obviously you have all preseason to do, but every time you're in here you take advantage of it."

No doubt, Rivers is a creature of habit. But after experiencing the new environment and playing against another team, Rivers said he could get used to this place.

"I think it's going to be awesome,” Rivers said. "There's no bad seat in the house. Everybody's going to have a great seat and be up close to the action. Now it's our job to put a competitive team on the field that wins, and makes this fan base proud."

This doesn't surprise me at all.

 

[Ram65]

It does seem that the newer stadiums are getting smaller except Dallas of course. It's hard to get the exact capacity numbers for the two up coming stadiums for the Falcons and Vikings. Seems close to 70,000 and expandable for the super bowl. I got different numbers on searches.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_National_Football_League_stadiums

It does seem like at some point in the distant future stadiums will get smaller. It's the cost to build bigger is too high. The 70,000 Super Bowl capacity mandate can keep new stadiums near that capacity. It getting harder to sell out bigger stadiums all year long. Looks like 65,000 expandable to 70,000 is a happy medium.

 

[bnw]

While Miami and Tampa may be classified as old they both recently received some major work/remodel. That's the reason they are hosting SB's. They put money into the stadium so they get "rewarded".

Its mostly because the NFL prefers a warm weather venue.

 

[Loyal]

Its mostly because the NFL prefers a warm weather venue.

They do..but they also reward cities that build new stadiums that hold over a certain amount....I imagine after all of the cities that have new stadiums being built now are complete, it will be a rotation of Phoenix, Dallas, and LA. Maybe some of the stadiums with retractable roofs....

I remember when it was Joe Robby Stadium in Florida, the LA Coliseum almost every year there for a while.....

 

[HeiseNBerg]

http://www.espn.com/blog/los-angele...about-stubhub-after-joint-scrimmage-with-rams

Chargers rave about StubHub after joint scrimmage with Rams

CARSON, Calif. -- Yes, some players for the Los Angeles Chargers had not played in a stadium this small -- the 30,000-seat StubHub Center -- since high school.

But that did not stop the Chargers from praising the team's temporary home after playing there for the first time Saturday in a joint practice with the team's new crosstown rival, the Los Angeles Rams.

"The atmosphere is amazing," Chargers defensive end Melvin Ingram said. "Everybody's all close. It's just a warm feeling, and I like that feeling. I love this place."

An estimated 8,000, according to the team, showed up to watch the Chargers in their new home. Even though the facility was less than half full, that was by design. The fully padded practice was open to Chargers season-ticket holders and those on the wait list. Seating was to be limited to the lower bowl.

"It was an awesome environment," Chargers head coach Anthony Lynn said. "The players loved it. I can't wait to play here."

Lynn went on to say the groundskeepers for the LA Galaxy of Major League Soccer did a nice job on the field, and it's one of the best playing surfaces he's experienced.

"I think it will be cool when we get a packed house in here," Chargers defensive end Joey Bosa said. "It's a nice, new stadium. We were focused on practice, so we kind of drowned out the crowd noise. But I think it will be nice and loud on game days, and a fun atmosphere.”

Chargers quarterback Philip Rivers took some time to get accustomed to his new surrounding after 13 seasons playing home games at Qualcomm Stadium.

"I know as a passer, I like to get all of the sight lines with the depth perception and everything," Rivers said. "I like to get that kind of situated -- where play clocks are, all of those things.

"It's just those things that obviously you have all preseason to do, but every time you're in here you take advantage of it."

No doubt, Rivers is a creature of habit. But after experiencing the new environment and playing against another team, Rivers said he could get used to this place.

"I think it's going to be awesome,” Rivers said. "There's no bad seat in the house. Everybody's going to have a great seat and be up close to the action. Now it's our job to put a competitive team on the field that wins, and makes this fan base proud."

Can't help noticing that 29,000 Chargers fans were dressed as empty seats yesterday.