The running QB

[jrry32]

So do pocket passers who can't move. Everyone gets figured out. The difference is the pocket passers aren't asked to change what they do best.

And whether or not Wilson scrambles because of his height or not doesn't seem to matter, IMO. The point remains that he makes most of his plays outside of the pocket traditon says he has to stay in to be successful.

Ya know, I don't think Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Drew Brees have been figured out yet.

Wilson does do that...he's also a rare exception with a very unique skill-set.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Ya know, I don't think Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Drew Brees have been figured out yet.

Wilson does do that...he's also a rare exception with a very unique skill-set.

They have been vs. strong defenses capable of rushing the passer (especially right up the middle) without having to send the house on almost every down.

And Wilson, while talented, is a rare exception not merly because of his skill set, but because of his coaching staff & the teams strong rushing attack. But, the second they mistakenly start calling for him to stay in the pocket to make plays, he'll decline, too.

 

[jrry32]

They have been vs. strong defenses capable of rushing the passer (especially right up the middle) without having to send the house on almost every down.

And Wilson, while talented, is a rare exception not merly because of his skill set, but because of his coaching staff & the teams strong rushing attack. But, the second they mistakenly start calling for him to stay in the pocket to make plays, he'll decline, too.

Being figured out isn't having a bad game or being stopped by an individual defense.

I doubt that Wilson will decline. Seattle already does that...and he just scrambles either ways. The difference between him and Kaepernick is that Kaepernick is a linear athlete with great speed. Wilson is so shifty and difficult to take down that he can break contain consistently. Kaepernick can't. Vick used to be able to do it too but Vick didn't have Wilson's processing ability, accuracy, and football IQ.

Which is why Wilson has such a unique skill-set.

 

[Big Willie]

I say no to a running QB....they never last for any length of time before they start breaking down. I would like one with some meat on their bones so they can take a hit. A guy like a Teddy Bridgewater is too slight for me. (6'2", 210 lbs). Mariotta scares me for the same reasons (6'5", 219lbs)... And while I know they can gain weight, I prefer a player who has carried a little more weight before they got to the NFL ( 6'4", 229 lbs range)

 

[Memphis Ram]

Being figured out isn't having a bad game or being stopped by an individual defense.

I doubt that Wilson will decline. Seattle already does that...and he just scrambles either ways. The difference between him and Kaepernick is that Kaepernick is a linear athlete with great speed. Wilson is so shifty and difficult to take down that he can break contain consistently. Kaepernick can't. Vick used to be able to do it too but Vick didn't have Wilson's processing ability, accuracy, and football IQ.

Which is why Wilson has such a unique skill-set.

Being figured out doesn't mean that every other team has the means/talent to accomplish the gameplan. Warner and the GSOT were even figured out. But, few teams like Tampa & the Giants had the means to do anything about it.

Another difference between Kaepernick and Wilson is that Wilson's team didn't go go away from what was working. They didn't go out and get a bunch of big named WRs and forget their bread and butter rushing attack via use or creativity. A rushing attack which is vital to their success. Lynch hasn't become the afterthought Gore has become, thus defenses still have to account for him and not just the QB.

Also Wilson, unlike Vick doesn't have to deal with the pressure of carrying his entire team on his back. Vick went down and the Falcons tanked. It's doubtful that the same happens in Seattle because Wilson's teams have been far more talented than Vick's teams.

 

[jrry32]

Being figured out doesn't mean that every other team has the means/talent to accomplish the gameplan. Warner and the GSOT were even figured out. But, few teams like Tampa & the Giants had the means to do anything about it.

Another difference between Kaepernick and Wilson is that Wilson's team didn't go go away from what was working. They didn't go out and get a bunch of big named WRs and forget their bread and butter rushing attack via use or creativity. A rushing attack which is vital to their success. Lynch hasn't become the afterthought Gore has become, thus defenses still have to account for him.

Also Wilson, unlike Vick doesn't have to deal with the pressure of carrying his entire team on his back. Vick went down and the Falcons tanked. It's doubtful that the same happens in Seattle because Wilson's teams have been far more talented than Vick's teams.

The pressure argument is such a bad one. Vick has even admitted that he put no time in the film room in Atlanta. Vick's failure is on him.

As far as your Kaepernick argument goes:
Gore + Hyde = 256 carries
Lynch + Turbin = 256 carries

San Francisco(non QBs) = 269 carries
Seattle(non QBs) = 288 carries

I think you're overstating things by a lot.

 

[Memphis Ram]

The pressure argument is such a bad one. Vick has even admitted that he put no time in the film room in Atlanta. Vick's failure is on him.

As far as your Kaepernick argument goes:
Gore + Hyde = 256 carries
Lynch + Turbin = 256 carries

San Francisco(non QBs) = 269 carries
Seattle(non QBs) = 288 carries

I think you're overstating things by a lot.

There is pressure on game day if you feel you have to put up a bunch of points for your team to win. That is something that Wilson has never experienced.

And it's not just about carries. It's also about the actual success and/or commitment to the success of a team's rushing attack (which is something I believe the Rams even screw up). I saw something from Gore saying the same thing. A team can run for the same amount of carries each season. But that doesn't mean that the team has put in the time/focus on building/maintaining a strong rushing attack.

On that note, let me correct you in that the comparison to be made isn't Kaepernick vs. Wilson. It's what were the 49ers doing when Kaepernick was having success vs. what they have done this year. IMO, if they go back to 2012/2013 mode, Kaepernick will look a lot better than he does now trying to fit his square peg talent into Greg Romans's now pass centric hole.

 

[cgsuddeath]

Ya know, I don't think Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Drew Brees have been figured out yet.

Wilson does do that...he's also a rare exception with a very unique skill-set.

Actually they have.The worst is Tom Brady.He is easily rattled if you hit him early.Ask the NY Giants.

 

[jrry32]

Actually the have.The worst is Tom Brady.He easily rattled if you hit him early.Ask the NY Giants.

Every QB in the NFL gets "rattled" if you get consistent pressure on them. That's not figuring them out, that's just playing defense.

 

[Philly5]

'Running QBs' still need to be able to pass accurately from a pocket. QBs that can pass accurately from the pocket don't need to be able to run.

 

[RaminExile]

Other than Steve Young, who was a complete fluke for a variety of reasons, running QB's just don't work in the NFL.

I don't want the Rams to draft a guy who is going to get hurt a lot, we already have one of those and it makes life tough as a fan!!!

Agreed. You must look at the lack of success out side of Steve Young when it comes to these "dual threat" QBs. Basically they have never worked - or they work for a year or two until people figure them out and get hurt. Its obvious to even the meannest intelligence now I think so if we draft a scrambler then we're asking for trouble.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Kaepernick is a classic example of my point. The 49ers were winning via a strong defense and commitment to run the football which included him. This year, they go out and get a bunch of WRs, the OC gets pass happy, they try to make a pocket passer out of him and viola.

The reason they try to make pocket passers out of them is that they are trying to protect hem. None of these running QBs are Steve McNair. The closest in size is probably Newton and he can't stay healthy due to taking too many hits. Running QBs don't work in he NFL because they don't last. Every now and then an anomaly like Wilson or Randall Cunningham comes along, but as a group running QBs cannot pull it off against superior NFL athletes. The running catches up to them in the form of injuries.

A winning QB is the most difficult piece to find when assembling a winning team. Guys like Rodgers Manning and even Luck can carry a team through games. They also play a long time. Running QBs don't last and teams that win with one want them to last so the try to protect them.

In a way you are right. The only way to succeed with a running QB is to play to their strengths but too often that means shortened careers and going back to finding a QB for the scouts and GMs. All teams wish to keep their Quality QBs a long time keeping them in the pocket is their best option.

 

[cgsuddeath]

Every QB in the NFL gets "rattled" if you get consistent pressure on them. That's not figuring them out, that's just playing defense.

I have seen Manning come back from being rattled by a defense.Not so much with that little girl Brady.

 

[jrry32]

I have seen Manning come back from being rattled by a defense.Not so much with that little girl Brady.

Eh, Manning gets plenty rattled by pressure...just like Brady.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Agreed. You must look at the lack of success out side of Steve Young when it comes to these "dual threat" QBs. Basically they have never worked - or they work for a year or two until people figure them out and get hurt. Its obvious to even the meannest intelligence now I think so if we draft a scrambler then we're asking for trouble.

Guys like Steve McNair and Donovan McNabb don't count?

Another thing to consider. Hasn't there been FAR more non duel threat QBs given the opportunity using the traditional QB model in the NFL? With that in mind are the percentages of success really that much higher?

 

[cgsuddeath]

Eh, Manning gets plenty rattled by pressure...just like Brady.

Yes but Brady never seems to recover against good defenses.Manning does like last week against Miami.

 

[lockdnram21]

Wilson is a guy that can play in the pocket and runs when he needs to. Kaepernick and RGIII aren't so good in the pocket.

well ive heard Mariota called a taller version of Wilson

 

[jrry32]

well ive heard Mariota called a taller version of Wilson

Nah. He's more like Kaepernick in terms of running style. He's just too tall and lanky to have Wilson's agility, change of directional skills, and balance.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Didn't a running quarterback just win a Super Bowl? I understand Wilson is good in the pocket too and Seattle won other ways, however, he's a running quarterback and won!

IMO you want a combination like Wilson, Rodgers & Cam Newton for example.

Wilson moves and runs in order to pass. He keeps his head downfield and uses his athleticism to find receivers. A lot of these other guys decide to run and thats the end of the play.

I'd give up the next three drafts, every pick, for ARodgers for those three years.

Damn straight. No hesitation.

 

[kurtfaulk]

Didn't a running quarterback just win a Super Bowl? I understand Wilson is good in the pocket too and Seattle won other ways, however, he's a running quarterback and won!

IMO you want a combination like Wilson, Rodgers & Cam Newton for example.

The only combination you need is arod. Best qb in the league by a country mile.

.