The Redskins "name"

[jrry32]

Nope. You don't change something major and valuable for a small minority. The government should worry about their own REAL problems and butt out.

 

[jrry32]

The litmus test is pretty simple. The next time you see one, walk up to them and call them a redskin. If you wouldn't do that, then deep down you probably know it's a slur.

False. Absolutely false.

 

[RamzFanz]

The litmus test is pretty simple. The next time you see one, walk up to them and call them a redskin. If you wouldn't do that, then deep down you probably know it's a slur.

False. Absolutely false.

In what way?

 

[iced]

The litmus test is pretty simple. The next time you see one, walk up to them and call them a redskin. If you wouldn't do that, then deep down you probably know it's a slur.

False. Absolutely false.

In what way?

Because most native americans already don't find it offensive...

 

[CGI_Ram]

Nope. You don't change something major and valuable for a small minority. The government should worry about their own REAL problems and butt out.

That was the angle I was coming from.

I'm just astounded it's gotten so much attention. The media must be bored.

 

[iced]

<a class="postlink" href="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/05/redskins-go-on-offensive-in-defending-team-name/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... team-name/</a>

“As a supporter of President Obama, I am sure the President is not aware that in the highly respected independent Annenberg Institute poll (taken in 2004) with a national sample of Native Americans, 9 out of 10 Native Americans said they were not bothered by the name the ‘Washington Redskins,’” Davis says in the first sentence of the statement.

Again - this isn't about whether the term is offensive, because clearly they don't care how Native Amercian's feel about it...you know..the supposed 'offended' people

 

[RamzFanz]

The litmus test is pretty simple. The next time you see one, walk up to them and call them a redskin. If you wouldn't do that, then deep down you probably know it's a slur.

False. Absolutely false.

In what way?

Because most native americans already don't find it offensive...

I'd like to see that poll. Do you have a link?

Anyway, my point is that if you wouldn't say it, YOU see it as a slur. Otherwise, why not use it in everyday speech with that person?

 

[iced]

The litmus test is pretty simple. The next time you see one, walk up to them and call them a redskin. If you wouldn't do that, then deep down you probably know it's a slur.

False. Absolutely false.

In what way?

Because most native americans already don't find it offensive...

I'd like to see that poll. Do you have a link?

Anyway, my point is that if you wouldn't say it, YOU see it as a slur. Otherwise, why not use it in everyday speech with that person?

scroll up

 

[A55VA6]

I don't really care if it changes or not but I said yes, only because it IS a racist name. If there's any question about the name being offensive, it needs to be changed.

 

[bluecoconuts]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/05/redskins-go-on-offensive-in-defending-team-name/

“As a supporter of President Obama, I am sure the President is not aware that in the highly respected independent Annenberg Institute poll (taken in 2004) with a national sample of Native Americans, 9 out of 10 Native Americans said they were not bothered by the name the ‘Washington Redskins,’” Davis says in the first sentence of the statement.

Again - this isn't about whether the term is offensive, because clearly they don't care how Native Amercian's feel about it...you know..the supposed 'offended' people

To be fair I believe they would need to do a more updated poll. In 2004 only 33% of Americans were in favor of gay marriage, and now it's up almost to 60% and rising.... So opinions change overtime.

I think if a poll were to be done there would probably still be 70%+ that said they didn't mind the name, but like I said, that number will go down as it's only a matter of time before the name does change. Again it's obviously a bit racist, the amount of people it offends doesn't change that.

Could be 1 year, could be 10, could be 100, who knows. Eventually they'll have a new name.

 

[iced]

I don't really care if it changes or not but I said yes, only because it IS a racist name. If there's any question about the name being offensive, it needs to be changed.

Seriously?

Someone somewhere is always going to find something offensive...

Some people found it offensive to HAVE to say "god" in the pledge allegiance, and the religious types found it offensive that some people refused to say it.. You can consider me an atheist, but I still end up in the apathy group - something stupid to argue over.

Someone sues McDonalds for not having "hot" labeled on their coffee..

It's illegal in some parts of Massachusetts (maybe wrong state but somewhere in New York) to be able to say "curse" words...and that one I don't get, because it's a violation of the freedom of speech.. saying a curse word shouldn't result in a fine.

My point is - Some people are dumb, some people are idiots, but you can ALWAYS count on someone to complain about something offending them.

One thing I have noticed is that it seems there's a fair majority of who have a control issue. Some seem to enjoy telling people what they can't and can say, what they can and can't do...like the pledge of allegiance for example, or it being illegal to say curse words...

 

[RamzFanz]

scroll up

Yeah, I looked at that but I'm a pretty strong sceptic of polls. That poll was from anonymous people who claimed that heritage. The largest groups like the National Congress of American Indians and many tribes find the word offensive.

Then I read that the person who named the team, George Preston, had a reputation as a racist and refused to allow blacks on the team until the Government forced him to.

In his will he stipulated that his foundation never support “the principle of racial integration in any form.”.

That pretty much spells out for me his intent. A slur is a slur because of it's intent.

 

[iced]

scroll up

Yeah, I looked at that but I'm a pretty strong sceptic of polls. That poll was from anonymous people who claimed that heritage. The largest groups like the National Congress of American Indians and many tribes find the word offensive.

Then I read that the person who named the team, George Preston, had a reputation as a racist and refused to allow blacks on the team until the Government forced him to.

In his will he stipulated that his foundation never support “the principle of racial integration in any form.”.

That pretty much spells out for me his intent. A slur is a slur because of it's intent.

do you have polls for these groups of indians that find it offensive? Haven't seen one....

<a class="postlink" href="http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/indians-redskins-slur-20505945" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/ ... r-20505945</a>

The name of a certain pro football team in Washington, D.C., has inspired protests, hearings, editorials, lawsuits, letters from Congress, even a presidential nudge. Yet behind the headlines, it's unclear how many Native Americans think "Redskins" is a racial slur.

Perhaps this uncertainty shouldn't matter — because the word has an undeniably racist history, or because the team says it uses the word with respect, or because in a truly decent society, some would argue, what hurts a few should be avoided by all.

But the thoughts and beliefs of native people are the basis of the debate over changing the team name. And looking across the breadth of Indian Country — with 2 million Indians enrolled in 566 federally recognized tribes, plus another 3.2 million who tell the Census they are Indian — it's difficult to tell how many are opposed to the name.

The controversy has peaked in the last few days. President Barack Obama said Saturday he would consider getting rid of the name if he owned the team, and the NFL took the unprecedented step Monday of promising to meet with the Oneida Indian Nation, which is waging a national ad campaign against the league.

What gets far less attention, though, is this article, posted 6 days ago. (click link for full article)

<a class="postlink" href="http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/indians-redskins-slur-20505945" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/ ... r-20505945</a>

There are Native American schools that call their teams Redskins. The term is used affectionately by some natives, similar to the way the N-word is used by some African-Americans. In the only recent poll to ask native people about the subject, 90 percent of respondents did not consider the term offensive, although many question the cultural credentials of the respondents.

All of which underscores the oft-overlooked diversity within Indian Country.

"Marginalized communities are too often treated monolithically," said Carter Meland, a professor of American Indian Studies at the University of Minnesota.

"Stories on the mascot issue always end up exploring whether it is right or it is wrong, respectful or disrespectful," said Meland, an Ojibwe Indian.

He believes Indian mascots are disrespectful, but said: "It would be interesting to get a sense of the diversity of opinion within a native community."

Those communities vary widely.

Again - it's clear as day no one really cares about the indian heritage and what they think about it..

I've showed you poll results from '04 , and even now in the Native American schools (and their culture) that have named their own teams the Redskins..

This is political correctness at it's finest.

 

[RamzFanz]

I've showed you poll results from '04 , and even now in the Native American schools (and their culture) that have named their own teams the Redskins..

This is political correctness at it's finest.

Sorry dude, anyone can find a few quotes. The largest organization in the US (National Congress of American Indians, 250 combined groups) finds the word offensive. Many of the largest tribes are on record as finding it offensive. The person who named the team was a racist. That pretty much wraps it up for me.

"The team’s original owner, George Preston Marshall, named the team the ‘Redskins’ in 1932, just months before he led a 13-year league wide ban on African American players in the NFL. Nearly 30 years after the race-based name was chosen, Marshall was forced by the league to hire the team’s first black player in 1962. He was the last NFL owner to do so."

I respect your opinion but we all know the name will be changed. It's a for profit organization and once they start seeing it affect their reputation (sponsors, high profile protestors, attendance and protests outside), it's all over. They might as well go ahead and do it.

 

[RamzFanz]

Here's a tidbit of humorous trivia for you:

"Marshall’s cause (*keeping blacks out of the NFL) had not exactly been helped by the support he received from the American Nazi Party, whose members picketed outside of the new stadium carrying signs saying, a bit ironically, “Keep Our Redskins White.” "

 

[y2joey]

From my own personal viewpoint, I feel they should have their name changed as it is a duragatory slur. The problem with surveying Indian tribes is they're not all the same. They will have differing opinions because there is no such thing as United Native American Nation. Its not mine or anyone else' control though, its up to Dan Snyder to make that decision. I understand the criticism completely, it makes sense to me.

 

[BonifayRam]

Typical Media and Gov't... ignoring the REAL important things like poverty, Gov't spying/violating civil rights, etc. in favor for Cyrus twerking and political correctness..

The above is just how I feel!

 

[iced]

I've showed you poll results from '04 , and even now in the Native American schools (and their culture) that have named their own teams the Redskins..

This is political correctness at it's finest.

Sorry dude, anyone can find a few quotes. The largest organization in the US (National Congress of American Indians, 250 combined groups) finds the word offensive. Many of the largest tribes are on record as finding it offensive. The person who named the team was a racist. That pretty much wraps it up for me.

"The team’s original owner, George Preston Marshall, named the team the ‘Redskins’ in 1932, just months before he led a 13-year league wide ban on African American players in the NFL. Nearly 30 years after the race-based name was chosen, Marshall was forced by the league to hire the team’s first black player in 1962. He was the last NFL owner to do so."

I respect your opinion but we all know the name will be changed. It's a for profit organization and once they start seeing it affect their reputation (sponsors, high profile protestors, attendance and protests outside), it's all over. They might as well go ahead and do it.

The name will be changed? Lol yea right...if that were the case, Braves, Chiefs, many others will be changed.

The only one who can change the team name is Snyder, and he's refused to do it.

Love how you ignored the Native Americans who have embraced it so much that their schools have named their football teams the Redskins.

And I'm sure you could nitpick many of the owners/original pioneers of their football times from that time era and they'd probably make the same statement or had a similar mind...that's what the culture (and mindset) was back then, especially teams "in the south"

 

[RamzFanz]

I've showed you poll results from '04 , and even now in the Native American schools (and their culture) that have named their own teams the Redskins..

This is political correctness at it's finest.

Sorry dude, anyone can find a few quotes. The largest organization in the US (National Congress of American Indians, 250 combined groups) finds the word offensive. Many of the largest tribes are on record as finding it offensive. The person who named the team was a racist. That pretty much wraps it up for me.

"The team’s original owner, George Preston Marshall, named the team the ‘Redskins’ in 1932, just months before he led a 13-year league wide ban on African American players in the NFL. Nearly 30 years after the race-based name was chosen, Marshall was forced by the league to hire the team’s first black player in 1962. He was the last NFL owner to do so."

I respect your opinion but we all know the name will be changed. It's a for profit organization and once they start seeing it affect their reputation (sponsors, high profile protestors, attendance and protests outside), it's all over. They might as well go ahead and do it.

The name will be changed? Lol yea right...if that were the case, Braves, Chiefs, many others will be changed.

The only one who can change the team name is Snyder, and he's refused to do it.

Love how you ignored the Native Americans who have embraced it so much that their schools have named their football teams the Redskins.

And I'm sure you could nitpick many of the owners/original pioneers of their football times from that time era and they'd probably make the same statement or had a similar mind...that's what the culture (and mindset) was back then, especially teams "in the south"

There were no NFL teams in the south back then. They adopted the Redskins because they were of the same mindset (banning blacks). Reportedly, that was a big part of why they continued to ban blacks to keep their southern fans and southern TV contracts

"Redskins" and "Braves" is akin to "Yellowskins" and "Samurai". One is a racial slur and the other is a title of a person of respect.

I'm not going to attempt to address every person or school that does or doesn't find it offensive. I wouldn't walk up to someone and call them a redskin so I see it as a slur. Maybe you would call someone a redskin and maybe you don't see it as a slur.

In the end, IMHO, the name will be changed. It's just a matter of time. Maybe now, maybe in 10 years, but in the end, they will tire of having a racial slur as a name and the constant reaction to it.

Anyways, we obviously are on opposite sides of the fence.

This thread is leaning more toward the "never discuss religion and politics" than football.

 

[iced]

There were no NFL teams in the south back then. They adopted the Redskins because they were of the same mindset (banning blacks). Reportedly, that was a big part of why they continued to ban blacks to keep their southern fans and southern TV contracts

"Redskins" and "Braves" is akin to "Yellowskins" and "Samurai". One is a racial slur and the other is a title of a person of respect.

I'm not going to attempt to address every person or school that does or doesn't find it offensive. I wouldn't walk up to someone and call them a redskin so I see it as a slur. Maybe you would call someone a redskin and maybe you don't see it as a slur.

In the end, IMHO, the name will be changed. It's just a matter of time. Maybe now, maybe in 10 years, but in the end, they will tire of having a racial slur as a name and the constant reaction to it.

Anyways, we obviously are on opposite sides of the fence.

It doesn't matter if a team was in the south back then or not. Just because a team wasn't physically there doesn't make it impossible for an owner or someone to be from there and have that mindset, which was predominant regardless of where you lived in the America.

Obviously we are on different sides of the fence but with a different caveat... I'm part native american, my entire family obviously is (both parents have roots in different tribes) - we don't find it offensive. My friend is 3/4 native american (ironically a cowboy fan), same thing...

That was my point - there is always going to be someone who finds something offensive, but the overwhelming majority don't. I don't know what else to tell you. I show you a poll, you dismiss it on the basis of skeptism. I show you quotes from an article that even mentions Native Americans don't have a problem with it and even their schools have football teams named the redskins, which clearly goes the opposite of being offended by it - it's embracing it.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree. Seems to me you entered this with your mind made up and your feet firmly entrenched in your position from the get go.

Majority of Native Americans don't care, should leave it at that.

This thread is leaning more toward the "never discuss religion and politics" than football.

I honestly don't see why people are bringing in politics into football.