The only things that really bother me if Spags is retained

[Username]

1. This is 1 because it is the most important issue with me in retaining anyone. Do the players still believe in him, and his message? I'm sorry, but if there is the very least bit of concern here he has to get axed. I also believe that some players may have been let loose because of this issue as well, but that's my own belief and a whole other thread haha.

2. His lack of ability to improve the offense. I'm not sure how much of a role Spags has had in the offense since his hiring. Hopefully for his sake, not much of one. I do know one thing though. He was the one who hired McDaniels. I know this year has been a terrible example of what we could have been totally capable doing. That said, Spags being comfortable going into the season with the shape our offense (or team for that matter) was/is in is kinda scarey. Allowing some of the plays that occurred this year, along with standing for the mistakes week in week out is frustrating as well.

3. Poor game play management decisions. This is last on the list because some of the decisions that he made actually had some amount of reason behind them (but not much at times). There's a lot of situations that come to mind. From the minor like not going for it on 4th and 2, when the season is over, you have nothing to lose, except fans and players respect. To punting to a player AGAIN who just returned one to the house on you 3 weeks before. Now, these are just some recent ones, but I think we all can remember a lot of others. The big problem with me here is, none of these decisions ever turn out good for the team. We can all say, "Yeah, well if he knew what was going to happen I don't think he would've... But I can see kinda see why he did that though." The problem is, we're always saying that. It's never the latter.

I don't know. I'm glad I'm not the one making the decisions. I really do like Spags don't get me wrong. I can tell you one thing I'm sure of, this guy has given it his all in trying to turn this team around. I remember reading the stories of him sleeping at the office from watching tape late the night before. For that I am forever grateful. Personality wise he's everything I want from a HC. I love his positivity, and what he's done with the defense as well. Just really on the fence because of these reasons. Oh, and our record has something to do with it as well haha. Like I said, I'm glad I'm not the one making the decisions.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Re: The only things that really bother me if Spags is retain

Do the players still believe in him, and his message?

Yes they do, you can tell they do by how hard they play, and by the play of the defense. The team doesn't have any quit in them, and that's really impressive given the poor records. There also isn't a lot of drama coming out of the Rams lockerroom like you see from most NFL teams, which is even more impressive with the poor record. To me, that is a group of players that really buy into his message, both on the field and off the field.

2. His lack of ability to improve the offense.

That does worry me, I do think that sometimes he influences McDaniels, but I also feel a lot of this is on Josh, and the offense in general. They're both really smart coaches obviously, Spags could use more help with things on the offensive side, which I will talk about in a second. Josh is still trying to figure out the offensive abilities, he's never had to do this before. He's used to attacking the defense, but with how poor our offense is doing right now it makes it much harder, but he's extremely limited in what he can do. I wouldn't expect a repeat of the offensive showing if Josh is back for another year, I believe the offseason will give everyone to get healthy, and Josh to start from square one in terms of getting the offense up to speed.

3. Poor game play management decisions.

This also reflects on the coaches upstairs. They should be helping with when to challenge and when not to challenge things, as they get the replays. Time outs and punting and other things, are also areas that I worry about. I feel the best thing to do with that, would be to hire a Football Guru, one that is good with offense. He can teach Spags (and Josh) better game time decisions and clock management, stuff like that. Help give input on when to do things. I think a Football Guru would be the smartest thing for this team. I also feel we can get an upgrade at some areas (new line coach), but I believe that Spags and Josh have what it takes to make this into a deadly team. Getting them some help never hurts.

 

[Ramhusker]

Re: The only things that really bother me if Spags is retain

#3 has been bothering me all season. I'm not sure what goes through a HC's mind at some of those crucial moments but it isn't the same thing that has gone through my "armchair skipper", " benefit of the TV coverage", "beer drinking, chicken wing eating" Ram fanatic ass on many an instance.

 

[-X-]

Re: The only things that really bother me if Spags is retain

In interviews (both radio and tv), all players have come right out and said that the game plan is solid, but they just need to execute. They also say (Jackson more than anyone) that they're very prepared but "for whatever reason" they just don't get it done. That tells me that there are maybe 2 or 3 players that won't be here next year. But as far as players believing in the message, that has been confirmed several times over. They actually reference it as "the philosophy."

Just recently (and I'll pull it when I find it) Spagnuolo said that they have a very specific game plan going in and the plays on offense are solid. He also expressed that they have very specific 'scenarios' where they'd go for it on 4th down. Down, distance, clock & score. Now. During this interview (it was with Bernie, so it's coming back to me lol), Spags was addressing a specific 4th & 1 last week (on the 50). Spags said to Bernie that he told McDaniels, "If we get X amount of yards here and end up with a 4th & 2, be ready to go for it and have a play ready." Have a play ready. He didn't say, "we're going to go for it and here's the play you should run." So, here's the dilemma. Do people want him to call the plays or not call the plays? Do people want him to tell McDaniels what to do, or LET McDaniels do his thing? The feeling I'm getting (and it's mixed as all hell) is that people want him to call plays sometimes and not call them other times. Pardon the bluntness, but that's stupid. Both times.

Game management is a minor thing when you're winning and a major problem when you're losing. This particular criticism isn't a glaring issue overall. Sure fans would like for him to go into Madden mode toward the end of the season and "go for it" every chance he gets, but all that does is appease the fans. It doesn't help with his main objective of trying to win a game. If failing to convert on 4th down leads to an easy score by the opposition, then great - fans are pleased with the effort. But ultimately, it gives them the ability to say 10-whatever after the game is lost. That's a lose/lose for Spagnuolo. This is probably just me, but this "game management" thing isn't really an issue in the grand scheme of things. It's only an issue for fans who want to be head coaches in the NFL but can't, so they have to live vicariously through an actual NFL head coach.

 

[Username]

Re: The only things that really bother me if Spags is retain

Kicking to Peterson even once was a dumb idea.

Not going for it when you're down by two scores, only won 1-2 games, and there's less than 5 mins left is dumb too. Especially with how awful your team is. I'm one who thinks the "conservative" bullshit talk is stupid too but Jesus Christ.

He arguably cost us a couple games last year with game management as well. I don't really care too much about it either that's why I put it last. My main problem is that he's never made one of these decisions that didn't backfire. Still, it could've "backfired" the other way too, but in most instances the latter was a more logical decision. It was considered a more logical decision by a lot of people too. Including analysis that were former players, GM, coaches, scouts, etc., etc. Not just couch coaches.

About the game plan on offense. THEY HAVEN'T WORKED haha. They've been terrible. This is obviously McDaniels, but if Spags can't diagnose the opportunity for giant failure before the game at least he can put an end to it during the game. We continue to try to run an offense the Rams aren't capable of running when Sams at QB. He's taking a beating and regressing at the same time. Btw, I don't mean that others are capable of running the O and Sams not, just that we run a simpler offense when Sams not in there. Maybe we should consider the basics of running an offense no matter who's at QB. Considering half of the offense is still in diapers, and the other half is 5th string fill ins. When you're as terrible as a team as we are right now you need to be focusing on utilizing your strengths, not the exploiting other teams weakness. Also, and I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure Llyod said in one of his first interviews here that they we're under prepared for games. Also If he was aware that the 17th fullback dive that got stuffed on numerous 4th and short plays was being called, he should fire himself. I'm pretty sure he didn't, and obviously he doesn't design the plays. Being McDaniels admitted that they don't have that many plays for short yardage situations like that is disturbing in its own self. I just don't know how a head coach could be comfortable with that. Especially when you consider not only how dumb it is for this club, but how polar opposite it is from what we did last year.

 

[-X-]

Re: The only things that really bother me if Spags is retain

About the game plan on offense. THEY HAVEN'T WORKED haha. They've been terrible. This is obviously McDaniels, but if Spags can't diagnose the opportunity for giant failure before the game at least he can put an end to it during the game. We continue to try to run an offense the Rams aren't capable of running when Sams at QB. He's taking a beating and regressing at the same time. Btw, I don't mean that others are capable of running the O and Sams not, just that we run a simpler offense when Sams not in there. Maybe we should consider the basics of running an offense no matter who's at QB. Considering half of the offense is still in diapers, and the other half is 5th string fill ins. When you're as terrible as a team as we are right now you need to be focusing on utilizing your strengths, not the exploiting other teams weakness. Also, and I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure Llyod said in one of his first interviews here that they we're under prepared for games. Also If he was aware that the 17th fullback dive that got stuffed on numerous 4th and short plays was being called, he should fire himself. I'm pretty sure he didn't, and obviously he doesn't design the plays. Being McDaniels admitted that they don't have that many plays for short yardage situations like that is disturbing in its own self. I just don't know how a head coach could be comfortable with that. Especially when you consider not only how dumb it is for this club, but how polar opposite it is from what we did last year.

And there's one problem. In detail. And I don't think Spagnuolo is comfortable with it. What we don't see is where and when he intervenes. We all assume he's not doing it at the right times, so that's a problem. And at the same time, we assume he's doing it at the wrong times, so THAT'S a problem. I'm just saying. The bad calls on offense appear to be Spagnuolo's fault when they don't work, and they appear to be Spagnuolo's fault when they're not called at all. At what point do people point a finger at the guy who's charged with the offense?

And I'm not even saying to point a finger at McDaniels. If Spagnuolo was hamstrung by everything that happened this year relative to the truncated off-season and injuries, then McDaniels should be afforded the same latitude. The difference being, McDaniels IS the offense. He SHOULD be the one who changes it up to suit his personnel. Spagnuolo did that with the defense, but that's because it's his strength. Offense isn't Spagnuolo's strength. Never has been, never will be. It stands to reason that Spags is voicing his displeasure, and it was kind of revealed that he did run his coaches through the ringer a few weeks back. But how much can he do with no offensive experience? That's something I'd really like to hear explained. Because very few defensive minded head coaches mess around with the offense. Same holds true for offensive minded head coaches and their defenses.

 

[Username]

Re: The only things that really bother me if Spags is retain

He's the head coach not the DC though, and the one responsible for bringing McDaniels here. I get what you're saying though. I don't have a problem if they keep Spags, these are just things that bother me or things that will worry me in the off season. Especially if McDaniels stays with him. Then I'll be really worried.

Who knows. McDaniels could stay and they could win the SB next year. That's the beauty of this whole thing. Just worried about our future. Considering it seemed like we were so close to getting over the hump last year. I know they're reasons, just sad to see EVERY SINGLE THING fall apart again.

 

[rickrawk]

Re: The only things that really bother me if Spags is retain

Hindsight is such a wonderful thing.
I mean......Really!!

GO RAMS!!!!

 

[-X-]

Re: The only things that really bother me if Spags is retain

He's the head coach not the DC though, and the one responsible for bringing McDaniels here. I get what you're saying though. I don't have a problem if they keep Spags, these are just things that bother me or things that will worry me in the off season. Especially if McDaniels stays with him. Then I'll be really worried.

Who knows. McDaniels could stay and they could win the SB next year. That's the beauty of this whole thing. Just worried about our future. Considering it seemed like we were so close to getting over the hump last year. I know they're reasons, just sad to see EVERY SINGLE THING fall apart again.

Don't get me wrong here. I'm not trying to indoctrinate you with pro-Spags propaganda. I'm genuinely interested in how you answer the previous question I posed to you. I understand he's the head coach and that he's responsible for everything under him. I get that. My question was, essentially, how much do people expect him to get involved in the offense when he's not an offensive-oriented guy. And like I said, I've heard criticism from both sides of that. He doesn't get involved enough, AND he's handcuffing McDaniels with his conservative minded philosophy. The only thing left is for him to rip the playbook out of McDaniels' hands and start calling the offense himself.

Which, obviously, would be a nightmare of nightmarish proportions.

 

[Username]

Re: The only things that really bother me if Spags is retain

I expect him to say "Give the ball to Jackson." After 6 failed attempts at the 1 yard line. I expect him to say "No, we're not running a fullback dive on 4th and 1. It hasn't been successful all year, they know that's all we run out of that formation, and it's f-ing dumb in the first place." I expect him to say "Well, we could run 17 step drop 5 wide passes against Seattle because they have a good run defense. Then again, I could just go punch Sam in the face 19 times right now, break his ankle, and give our best player SJ39 a vacation. That way we don't even have to play and we get the same results, just less injuries." I expect him to say "Hey, we have one of the most feared RBs in the league who has been pounding good yardage all day, maybe we should consider some play action since we can't block, no one can create separation, and it could limit the reads for our young qb in a new system." I expect him to be infuriated with the amount of mistakes and penalties the offense has gotten.

That's the type of stuff I expect out of a defensive minded head coach.

 

[-X-]

Re: The only things that really bother me if Spags is retain

I expect him to say "Give the ball to Jackson." After 6 failed attempts at the 1 yard line. I expect him to say "No, we're not running a fullback dive on 4th and 1. It hasn't been successful all year, they know that's all we run out of that formation, and it's f-ing dumb in the first place." I expect him to say "Well, we could run 17 step drop 5 wide passes against Seattle because they have a good run defense. Then again, I could just go punch Sam in the face 19 times right now, break his ankle, and give our best player SJ39 a vacation. That way we don't even have to play and we get the same results, just less injuries." I expect him to say "Hey, we have one of the most feared RBs in the league who has been pounding good yardage all day, maybe we should consider some play action since we can't block, no one can create separation, and it could limit the reads for our young qb in a new system." I expect him to be infuriated with the amount of mistakes and penalties the offense has gotten.

That's the type of stuff I expect out of a defensive minded head coach.

Well, absent the hyperbole, that's one helluva criticism of McDaniels, isn't it?

So that's one for, "Spags should call the plays instead of McDaniels." Now. Given that. What do you think the problem is with McDaniels this year when every account of his abilities as an offensive coordinator has been littered with praise prior to his involvement with the Rams? Did he suddenly get stupid?

 

[Username]

Re: The only things that really bother me if Spags is retain

I'm not saying he should call plays at all. Are you referring to where I said he would maybe advise to using play action in the game?

As for McDaniels, I've heard ZN give some pretty concise descriptions as to what might be wrong. One thing is for certain, he didn't merge the 2 playbooks (last years/this one) like he said he was going to. He forced this offense with no off season on a young offense. He also never attempted to adapt to the personnel. It's the same bullsh*t week in week out. It's not that the Rams were so much worse off talent wise (which they were in most cases) than any team he'd dealt with. It's that they were so different than any other team. Wanting to be a defense heavy team who relies on ball control, and then running this offense is laughable. We run the same running plays out of the same formation week in week out for Christ sakes. His offense has become pretty GD easy to predict. Matter of fact, wasn't there just an article on that the other day here on ROD? I need to read that. I have no clue why I didn't hahaha. I have a feeling I'd be agreeing with a lot of it.

 

[-X-]

Re: The only things that really bother me if Spags is retain

Example 1: Rams vs Seattle - SJ39 lined up as a WR 9 times .....that's 15% of the offensive snaps. HC says, "Hey, get Jackson back in the back field."

Do you know he didn't do that? Do you know he didn't say "enough of that?" Because it was scrapped pretty early on when it became unsuccessful. Bradford explained it anyway. "We felt like we could spread them out,'' Bradford said. "The teams that we had seen earlier in the year that (went with) an empty (backfield) had a very high success rate. They had a lot of completions, a lot of yards.'' Hindsight gives everyone the ability to say it was a bad decision initially. But people using hindsight don't have access to the NFL's all-22 film to game plan for an opponent, when the plan is being implemented. Had it worked, would this be an issue?

Example 2: HC decides 53 man roster can say to GM, KEEP ALL POTENTIAL PLAY MAKERS. You poorly evaluate Fells and decide to let him walk and retain Bajema. You keep Gibson on the roster but let Robinson go. You keep Curry but let Avery walk. HC has a change of pace RB inactive to keep Quinn Porter on roster ....another baffling move. In short, these decisions are counterproductive on the offense. Is it hindsight ....sure. But it's funny how successful HC can foresee these things and ones who fail can't .....hence the hindsight.

Yes. Hence the hindsight. What is Avery doing now? Curry is a special teams ACE. That's every bit as important as a guy who is currently not catching a single ball in the NFL (0 catches, 0 yards), and for a slightly better team.

Norwood has been battling a hamstring injury for most of the year. Coach Steve Spagnuolo said RB Jerious Norwood had not returned kicks all year because of his ailing hamstring. Healthy on Monday night, Norwood got off the team’s longest kick return of the season – a 47-yarder in the first quarter. “Hopefully, going forward, knock on wood, everybody stays healthy,” Spagnuolo said. <a class="postlink" href="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports/post/16442169" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-repo ... t/16442169</a>

Fells was a mediocre TE, and unrestricted free agent, and they had Hoomanwanui and drafted Kendricks. Fells has almost identical stats this year to what Bajema had last year. Not a huge issue for a 3rd string TE.

Laurent Robinson is the poster child for hindsight. In 2009 he broke his leg and went on IR. Last year he was also hurt off and on and finished up with 34 receptions for 344 yards. Nobody said shit when he was released. Nobody. In fact, I heard praise over the decision. Successful head coaches don't let him leave to go to the Rams, do they? Why would a successful head coach put Harry Douglas and Brian Finneran ahead of him if he was so phenomenal?

Example 3 - You're on 1 yard lineon 1st and goal and you have a 230lb beast at RB. Your OC has him on the sideline and calls a naked bootleg with your hobbled QB. A successful HC may say, "Hey, scrap that play and punch it in with SJ39

Sure. He "may" say that. Then again, he "may" not. It was explained that the Rams didn't have enough blockers up front to even run the ball in that situation. They were down to their last TE (Spach) and he was hurt prior to that series. So they had none. That's 11 defenders against 5 blockers. You like those odds? So they tried everything they could to spread it out, failed, and decided to run it. Sure. I'll give you this one. It was ONE play where he didn't intervene and take over the call. No other coach trusts his OC? None?

Example 4 - You have a WR who is healthy at the moment and have big play ability .....at the moment you have no other deep threats on the roster.....YOU ensure that player is active

That doesn't even make sense. YOU make sure he's not injured? I assume you're talking about Alexander who sometimes disappears in games and has been injured most of the year. I mean I'm thrilled he finally surpassed Gibson in terms of TD's this year (2 to 1), but are you implying that Spagnuolo needs to make sure he's not injured? Brandon Lloyd is the only go-to reliable receiver they have right now.

Example 5- You have a proven play maker available at a position of need but he don't fit this "pillar nonsense ". Since you're trying to win football players YOU get that player for a modest price and don't go into the season with the same glaring issues you had year before

Who are you talking about here? And this "pillar nonsense" is a slap in the face to the guys on this team that fit that mold. And there are plenty. Besides that, you're talking about the GM.

Example 6 - during a possible shorten off season you don't bring in a complex offense for your 2nd year QB to learn

"Possible" being the key word. And yeah, they did interview a few other guys, but McDaniels was a hot commodity at the time. What was not anticipated was his inability to mold an offense to fit the players around him. Spagnuolo is supposed to harbor the blame for that? Okay. I'll even give you that one. It defies logic, but I'll give you that one. So what do we have? He hired the wrong coordinator and he didn't follow your blueprint for roster development. Yeah, that's good enough I suppose. Let's cut him loose.

 

[-X-]

Re: The only things that really bother me if Spags is retain

More examples how a defensive minded HC can delegate the offense

Example 7 - Once its obvious that the cast of current WRs and OL are not suitable for the offense being ran, you have your coordinator simplify the game plan and get the ball out quicker

Example 8 - Once it's apparent that self inflicting penalties on offense is killing our team once we get in scoring position, YOU DISCIPLINE those players and insert the next man. Similar to what happened to Brown well past the mid way point ....again Tue adjustment came too late.

You insert the next man? WHO??? They've done nothing but shuffle that offensive line around. But you wanted him to pull guys (which he did - for a series or two) permanently in order to "discipline" them? Brown was benched when it became a big problem, and now he has to be back in the lineup. He's still jumping. Pull him and sign a guy from McDonalds?

Again, all the coaches were "disciplined" a week or so before the New Orleans game. It happens more than we know, and more and more media personalities are saying as much. So here we have you saying he should have forced McDaniels to simplify the offense, but then other people are saying he (McDaniels) shouldn't be so damn predictable. You see the lose/lose here? Or is this just me?

 

[Anonymous]

Re: The only things that really bother me if Spags is retain

He's the head coach not the DC though, and the one responsible for bringing McDaniels here. I get what you're saying though. I don't have a problem if they keep Spags, these are just things that bother me or things that will worry me in the off season. Especially if McDaniels stays with him. Then I'll be really worried.

Who knows. McDaniels could stay and they could win the SB next year. That's the beauty of this whole thing. Just worried about our future. Considering it seemed like we were so close to getting over the hump last year. I know they're reasons, just sad to see EVERY SINGLE THING fall apart again.

Don't get me wrong here. I'm not trying to indoctrinate you with pro-Spags propaganda.

Well I've stockpiled enough of that innoculant just in case. Works on BD too. :sly:

 

[-X-]

Re: The only things that really bother me if Spags is retain

You give Spags WAY too little responsibilities and WAY too many excuses for his failures bro. With 2 more loses Spags will have the WORST RECORD FOR A HC IN A 3 YEAR SPAN......THE WORST. How much of that is due to poor coaching??? 10 wins in 3 years........really?

I don't know how much of it is due to coaching. If I go by what you constantly say, then I assume even you could coach them out of this mess. It is what it is, man. If I want to question the veracity of your statements and investigate every single thing that would cause a person to fail, then I'm going to keep doing that. I've laid it out for your in minute detail quite a few times, but you really don't want to recognize how those variables can cause a coach to stumble. Instead, you want to pick out a sentence and tell me about another coach, and how they could possibly do better. All speculation, mah brothuh. Everything I tell you actually transpired. All of it. What you tell me is that either you can do it better, or another coach WOULD do it better. You can't prove it. You can only say it.

Now let you show you how some HOF head coaches are affected by "variables."

Don Shula. 1988. 6-10 record with Marino and Clayton and a full off-season. What went wrong? Only 10 other players played a full 16 games. He probably made some bad coaching decisions in-game. Every coach in the history of the league, every year, makes a questionable call.

Bill Cowher. 1999. 6-10 record. Quarterback injuries and a rash of injuries down the stretch in which he went 1-7 over his last 8 games. Probably made some bad decisions in personnel if he couldn't overcome that with depth. Might have made a bad call or two as well. It happens. He probably should have made Kevin Gilbride change his offense or something.

Tom Landry. 1986-1988. 17-30 in his last three years in Dallas because of eroding talent and injuries, and a 3-game mid-season strike in 1987. Why he wasn't able to coach them out of that mess remains a mystery to this day. Maybe he kicked to Vai Sikahema one too many times, or maybe it's just not easy to win with Steve Pelluer as your starting QB when Danny White gets injured. I'll bet he could have disciplined the shit out of somebody though. Or maybe he could have been more like Joe Gibbs and won anyway. Segue.......

Joe Gibbs. 2006. 5-11. Lost his starting RB in preseason (Portis), they cut Arrington, and had to start two QBs throughout the season (Brunell and Campbell). He couldn't even beat LINEHAN that year. I'll tell you what though, he certainly got everything he could out of Adam Archuletta, because good coaches make bad players good. Actually, that's not true. Archuletta didn't do squat that year.

SO. Guess who had to deal with three years of the things that those coaches had to deal with once? And that's JUST injuries. They didn't have to deal with cap restrictions after stripping their team of 17 starters. They didn't have injuries to the extent that the Rams had them, and they had the benefit of a full off-season.

Need a hint?

Maybe those coaches just had a bad year. We shouldn't give them any "excuses."

 

[-X-]

Re: The only things that really bother me if Spags is retain

If you say so, Shorty. Keep ignoring what I'm saying, and we'll keep having these conversations. :ww:

 

[-X-]

Re: The only things that really bother me if Spags is retain

If you say so, Shorty. Keep ignoring what I'm saying, and we'll keep having these conversations. :ww:

Shorty??

Is that some hip hop lingo...and if so its Shawty....lol

What did I ignore?

You mentioned variables....but those variables are not an excuse for the consistency of poor play over the 3 years. You act like they were playing well, then the variables hit and they started to play poorly. The same issues from the past 2 years are still present......

What has Spags shored up? The defense????

2006 - 24 pts per (28th)
2007 - 27 pt per (31st)
2008 - 29 pt per (31st)



2009 - 27 pt per (31st)
2010 - 21 pt per (12th) - Soft schedule where we faced 4 teams who had a winning record
2011 - 25 pt per ( 25th - Tough schedule


Not anything to hang your hat on...but what else has he done to get such a huge pass?

No, it's just shorty. Marshall Faulk towers over you. :razzed:

Here's where the disconnect is, my friend. At what point do you connect the dots? You've got players new to a system, coupled with injuries who force players to play well before they're ready. How do you get them all to play together, with chemistry (and reps being the biggest contributor to chemistry) and have that result in "disciplined football?" If your argument is that Spagnuolo is a great DC and that's it, then how do you marry those two statements in your mind? How do you resolve that? If he's a great DC, then why are players on defense blowing gap assignments? He didn't have that problem in Philly or New York. Why here? Something in the water?

And here's why I say you think you can do better. I can decipher things. If I walk outside and it's 10 below and I say, "Jeez, I could cut diamonds with my nipples." Does that mean it's cold? I didn't say it was. If you list all the things Spagnuolo did wrong on game days and contrast them with what you would do different, doesn't that mean you think you're better at it?

Finally, we both go to great lengths to try and prove our points. You're going to keep doing it and I'm going to keep doing it. Not once have I said you were "wrong." I want to, but I don't. Above you list the things that were wrong with the team in 2006-2008. And that was with pretty okay talent. We don't have anything that resembles that team going into 2009. Jackson and Bartell are the only ones left that were drafted by the previous management structure. Three years is enough to draft a football team and establish enough depth to have injuries be a non-factor? Okay then. I've never seen that happen before without the benefit of a blockbuster trade (Cowboys). But even then, J.J. went 8-24 his first two years and didn't have REMOTELY the same set of circumstances in his third year. Not even close. I follow trends and look at history. Trends and history support the idea that NO coach would be able to deal with what happened to this team in 2011. Some of that is Spagnuolo's doing, and some of it is not.

He's probably going to get fired. History and trends support that too. But you know what? I'll think it was a bad idea far beyond the day it happens. For years. That's how much I think he's been dealt a bad hand. That's how passionate I am about my opinion on this matter. You can keep pointing out the numbers that support your idea that the Rams were a bad team, and you can go further to assign a heavy amount of blame to the head coach, but I will never. Ever. See it that way. Wanna keep doing this anyway?

 

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Re: The only things that really bother me if Spags is retain

If you say so, Shorty. Keep ignoring what I'm saying, and we'll keep having these conversations. :ww:

Shorty??

Is that some hip hop lingo...and if so its Shawty....lol

What did I ignore?

You mentioned variables....but those variables are not an excuse for the consistency of poor play over the 3 years. You act like they were playing well, then the variables hit and they started to play poorly. The same issues from the past 2 years are still present......

What has Spags shored up? The defense????

2006 - 24 pts per (28th)
2007 - 27 pt per (31st)
2008 - 29 pt per (31st)



2009 - 27 pt per (31st)
2010 - 21 pt per (12th) - Soft schedule where we faced 4 teams who had a winning record
2011 - 25 pt per ( 25th - Tough schedule


Not anything to hang your hat on...but what else has he done to get such a huge pass?

No, it's just shorty. Marshall Faulk towers over you. :razzed:

Here's where the disconnect is, my friend. At what point do you connect the dots? You've got players new to a system, coupled with injuries who force players to play well before they're ready. How do you get them all to play together, with chemistry (and reps being the biggest contributor to chemistry) and have that result in "disciplined football?" If your argument is that Spagnuolo is a great DC and that's it, then how do you marry those two statements in your mind? How do you resolve that? If he's a great DC, then why are players on defense blowing gap assignments? He didn't have that problem in Philly or New York. Why here? Something in the water?

And here's why I say you think you can do better. I can decipher things. If I walk outside and it's 10 below and I say, "Jeez, I could cut diamonds with my nipples." Does that mean it's cold? I didn't say it was. If you list all the things Spagnuolo did wrong on game days and contrast them with what you would do different, doesn't that mean you think you're better at it?

Finally, we both go to great lengths to try and prove our points. You're going to keep doing it and I'm going to keep doing it. Not once have I said you were "wrong." I want to, but I don't. Above you list the things that were wrong with the team in 2006-2008. And that was with pretty okay talent. We don't have anything that resembles that team going into 2009. Jackson and Bartell are the only ones left that were drafted by the previous management structure. Three years is enough to draft a football team and establish enough depth to have injuries be a non-factor? Okay then. I've never seen that happen before without the benefit of a blockbuster trade (Cowboys). But even then, J.J. went 8-24 his first two years and didn't have REMOTELY the same set of circumstances in his third year. Not even close. I follow trends and look at history. Trends and history support the idea that NO coach would be able to deal with what happened to this team in 2011. Some of that is Spagnuolo's doing, and some of it is not.

He's probably going to get fired. History and trends support that too. But you know what? I'll think it was a bad idea far beyond the day it happens. For years. That's how much I think he's been dealt a bad hand. That's how passionate I am about my opinion on this matter. You can keep pointing out the numbers that support your idea that the Rams were a bad team, and you can go further to assign a heavy amount of blame to the head coach, but I will never. Ever. See it that way. Wanna keep doing this anyway?

HE WAS STANDING ON THE EDGE OF THE STEPS.............JESUS CHRIST!!!!!!
I'm WAY taller than that man :x


Back to the topic.....I understand what you are saying. You make valid points.....I just don't carry those circumstances as long as you. Again, I love the guy as a DC......don't think he's the right man for THIS job.....maybe a more polished team that's already set in place....Kinda like Tomlin in Pittsburgh. But Spags came into a real bad situation, and I believe that a VET HC is the only way to get this team out of it. Kinda hard to learn on the fly as a rookie HC when the organization is in such a mess

No....I don't want to keep doing this......I will never get any work done at the J-O-B....and I wanted to leave early.

We'll talk about this more in 2012 I'm sure

:hehe:

Fair enough, Stubby. (I'm breaking your balls here)

That's about as close as we're gonna see it, and that's good enough for me.

Merry Christmas.