The Marijuana Question

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Also, cannabis has zero physical addictive properties

Oh I wouldn't go that far. It may not be for you but for those with addictive personalities it's another story entirely.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...teens-drug-clinics-treated-marijuana-use.html

Think it's harmless? Now nine in ten teens at drug clinics are being treated for marijuana use
By STEPHEN ADAMS and MARTIN BECKFORD

Cannabis is responsible for 91 per cent of cases where teenagers end up being treated for drug addiction, shocking new figures reveal.

Supporters of the drug claim it is harmless, but an official report now warns the ‘increased dominance of high-potency herbal cannabis’ – known as skunk – is causing more young people to seek treatment.

The revelation comes amid growing concerns that universities – and even some public schools – are awash with high-strength cannabis and other drugs.

The findings also back up academic research, revealed in The Mail on Sunday over the past three years, that skunk is having a serious detrimental impact on the mental health of the young. At least two studies have shown repeated use triples the risk of psychosis, with sufferers repeatedly experiencing delusional thoughts. Some victims end up taking their own lives.

The latest UK Focal Point on Drugs report, drawn up by bodies including Public Health England, the Scottish Government and the Home Office, found that:

  • Over the past decade, the number of under-18s treated for cannabis abuse in England has jumped 40 per cent – from 9,043 in 2006 to 12,712 in 2017;
  • Treatment for all narcotics has increased by 20 per cent – up from 11,618 to 13,961;
  • The proportion of juvenile drug treatment for cannabis use is up from four in five cases (78 per cent) to nine in ten (91 per cent
Last night, Lord Nicholas Monson, whose 21-year-old son Rupert Green killed himself last year after becoming hooked on high-strength cannabis, said: ‘These figures show the extent of the damage that high-potency cannabis wreaks on the young.

‘The big danger for young people – particularly teens – is that their brains can be really messed up by this stuff because they are still developing biologically. If they develop drug-induced psychosis – as Rupert did – the illness can stick for life.’

The large rise in the number of youngsters treated for cannabis abuse comes despite the fact that total usage is falling slightly.

The report concludes: ‘While fewer people are using cannabis, those who are using it are experiencing greater harm.’

Almost all cannabis on Britain’s streets is skunk, which is four times more powerful than types that dominated the market until the early 2000s. It can even trigger hallucinations.
 

1maGoh

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Well, they can run their clinical trials right up their butt. I've seen it with my own eyes. They can get a new batch of chimps. Follow the money.
What's funny is that you say follow the money, but others say the industry is about to make a ton of money turning cannabis into medicine. Shouldn't the same companies who have a hand on the game right now be trying to get into a product in their industry that's about to explode?

Some companies are dumb (looking at you Kodak), but most can see a trend and invest to make money. If it was legitimately a significant medical usage, one would expect Merck, Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson, etc trying to break in and supporting this. It's not like their customers are going to stop taking their current medicine because of the position. Their health can't afford it.

What I think turns people off to the possibility that it's a real medical benefit is the 20+ item lists of medical uses. It sounds exactly like snake oil. It's supposed to help with seizures, PTSD, chronic pain, inflammation, IBS, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, cancer (if this was even close to true every company would be all over it), concussions, glaucoma, and the list goes on and on. Seriously, we're supposed to believe that one plant fixes or helps with all that?

I've heard that claim before from Melaluca and several other "natural remedy" companies. And every time it's been a bunch of lies to sell products to gullible people. This time it's really popular because it has a recreational use too.

I'll never forget the wise words of Terry Goodkind:

People will believe anything you tell them, as long as they want it to be true or they're afraid that it's true.
 

LesBaker

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Almost all cannabis on Britain’s streets is skunk, which is four times more powerful than types that dominated the market until the early 2000s. It can even trigger hallucinations.

The stuff on the market now is WAY more potent than what we smoked back in the day.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/aliceg...marijuana-has-changed-over-time/#ef8fd0959e59

Here is a small excerpt from the article. I can see kids being foolish and smoking too much and hallucinating or getting so high they start to panic or freak out. I think I told the story of the guy I know that ate a bunch of small brownies without knowing they were THC laden and ended up in the hospital tripping out. He had a similar experience to @fearsomefour s description of what happened to him. I've eaten gummies, chocolate and "magic butter" cookies but have always done it with caution.

Anyhow click the link it's an interesting read.

Potency Is Rising

The main finding of the new analysis was that potency has risen by a factor of three in the last few decade. "As far as potency goes, it's been surprising how strong a lot of the marijuana is," says researcher and study lead Andy LaFrate. "We've seen potency values close to 30 percent THC, which is huge.” Potency used to be around 10% or less, but it’s been bred upwards over the years, presumably because the market has demanded it.
 

Zodi

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Oh I wouldn't go that far. It may not be for you but for those with addictive personalities it's another story entirely.

Like I said, physical. As in, your body starts to need it, eg alcoholism. Cannabis addiction would be 100% psychological.

But in reference to your article, I agree its dangerous or teenagers. Any kind of drug would be, even caffeine.
 

LesBaker

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hat I think turns people off to the possibility that it's a real medical benefit is the 20+ item lists of medical uses. It sounds exactly like snake oil. It's supposed to help with seizures, PTSD, chronic pain, inflammation, IBS, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, cancer (if this was even close to true every company would be all over it), concussions, glaucoma, and the list goes on and on. Seriously, we're supposed to believe that one plant fixes or helps with all that?

This is what I was trying to say, you did it better.

If the conversation could be shifted to "we want to be able to get high" and stay on point more states would legalize it more quickly. Credibility is strained/lost with the hyper push on the unproven medical benefits.

Lets face it, it's mainstream now, and tens of millions of people use it. About half of Americans have at least tried it according to something I read a few years ago.

@Zodi yes especially with teens, they haven't built up a tolerance over years and years and are smoking shit that is WAY stronger than I/we did back in the day. In part because people who have smoked for years have built up a tolerance and they are driving the demand for stronger weed so the growers accommodate it because they can get a higher price.

By the way I picked up a "buyers guide" published in Colorado, it's an annual thing. Colorado's Finest Buds it's called. Beautiful pictures. I'm giving it to a friend who smokes.

http://www.ballparkdispensary.com/colorados-finest-buds-2018-buyers-guide/
 

Zodi

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@Zodi yes especially with teens, they haven't built up a tolerance over years and years and are smoking crap that is WAY stronger than I/we did back in the day. In part because people who have smoked for years have built up a tolerance and they are driving the demand for stronger weed so the growers accommodate it because they can get a higher price.

I think it has more to do with the fact that teenagers don't have fully developed brains-- especially the frontal lobes.
 

fearsomefour

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Oh I wouldn't go that far. It may not be for you but for those with addictive personalities it's another story entirely.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...teens-drug-clinics-treated-marijuana-use.html

Think it's harmless? Now nine in ten teens at drug clinics are being treated for marijuana use
By STEPHEN ADAMS and MARTIN BECKFORD

Cannabis is responsible for 91 per cent of cases where teenagers end up being treated for drug addiction, shocking new figures reveal.

Supporters of the drug claim it is harmless, but an official report now warns the ‘increased dominance of high-potency herbal cannabis’ – known as skunk – is causing more young people to seek treatment.

The revelation comes amid growing concerns that universities – and even some public schools – are awash with high-strength cannabis and other drugs.

The findings also back up academic research, revealed in The Mail on Sunday over the past three years, that skunk is having a serious detrimental impact on the mental health of the young. At least two studies have shown repeated use triples the risk of psychosis, with sufferers repeatedly experiencing delusional thoughts. Some victims end up taking their own lives.

The latest UK Focal Point on Drugs report, drawn up by bodies including Public Health England, the Scottish Government and the Home Office, found that:

  • Over the past decade, the number of under-18s treated for cannabis abuse in England has jumped 40 per cent – from 9,043 in 2006 to 12,712 in 2017;
  • Treatment for all narcotics has increased by 20 per cent – up from 11,618 to 13,961;
  • The proportion of juvenile drug treatment for cannabis use is up from four in five cases (78 per cent) to nine in ten (91 per cent
Last night, Lord Nicholas Monson, whose 21-year-old son Rupert Green killed himself last year after becoming hooked on high-strength cannabis, said: ‘These figures show the extent of the damage that high-potency cannabis wreaks on the young.

‘The big danger for young people – particularly teens – is that their brains can be really messed up by this stuff because they are still developing biologically. If they develop drug-induced psychosis – as Rupert did – the illness can stick for life.’

The large rise in the number of youngsters treated for cannabis abuse comes despite the fact that total usage is falling slightly.

The report concludes: ‘While fewer people are using cannabis, those who are using it are experiencing greater harm.’

Almost all cannabis on Britain’s streets is skunk, which is four times more powerful than types that dominated the market until the early 2000s. It can even trigger hallucinations.
Certainly can be addictive.
 

kurtfaulk

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https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/medical-marijuana-2018011513085

Medical marijuana
POSTED JANUARY 15, 2018, 10:30 AM
Peter-Grinspoon-Author-photo-for-Nancy-2-150x150.jpg

Peter Grinspoon, MD
Contributing Editor
iStock-116036237.jpg


There are few subjects that can stir up stronger emotions among doctors, scientists, researchers, policy makers, and the public than medical marijuana. Is it safe? Should it be legal? Decriminalized? Has its effectiveness been proven? What conditions is it useful for? Is it addictive? How do we keep it out of the hands of teenagers? Is it really the “wonder drug” that people claim it is? Is medical marijuana just a ploy to legalize marijuana in general?

These are just a few of the excellent questions around this subject, questions that I am going to studiously avoid so we can focus on two specific areas: why do patients find it useful, and how can they discuss it with their doctor?

Marijuana is currently legal, on the state level, in 29 states, and in Washington, DC. It is still illegal from the federal government’s perspective. The Obama administration did not make prosecuting medical marijuana even a minor priority. President Donald Trump promised not to interfere with people who use medical marijuana, though his administration is currently threatening to reverse this policy. About 85% of Americans support legalizing medical marijuana, and it is estimated that at least several million Americans currently use it.

Marijuana without the high
Least controversial is the extract from the hemp plant known as CBD (which stands for cannabidiol) because this component of marijuana has little, if any, intoxicating properties. Marijuana itself has more than 100 active components. THC (which stands for tetrahydrocannabinol) is the chemical that causes the “high” that goes along with marijuana consumption. CBD-dominant strains have little or no THC, so patients report very little if any alteration in consciousness.

Patients do, however, report many benefits of CBD, from relieving insomnia, anxiety, spasticity, and pain to treating potentially life-threatening conditions such as epilepsy. One particular form of childhood epilepsy called Dravet syndrome is almost impossible to control, but responds dramatically to a CBD-dominant strain of marijuana called Charlotte’s Web. The videos of this are dramatic.

Uses of medical marijuana
The most common use for medical marijuana in the United States is for pain control. While marijuana isn’t strong enough for severe pain (for example, post-surgical pain or a broken bone), it is quite effective for the chronic pain that plagues millions of Americans, especially as they age. Part of its allure is that it is clearly safer than opiates (it is impossible to overdose on and far less addictive) and it can take the place of NSAIDs such as Advil or Aleve, if people can’t take them due to problems with their kidneys or ulcers or GERD.

In particular, marijuana appears to ease the pain of multiple sclerosis, and nerve pain in general. This is an area where few other options exist, and those that do, such as Neurontin, Lyrica, or opiates are highly sedating. Patients claim that marijuana allows them to resume their previous activities without feeling completely out of it and disengaged.

Along these lines, marijuana is said to be a fantastic muscle relaxant, and people swear by its ability to lessen tremors in Parkinson’s disease. I have also heard of its use quite successfully for fibromyalgia, endometriosis, interstitial cystitis, and most other conditions where the final common pathway is chronic pain.

Marijuana is also used to manage nausea and weight loss, and can be used to treat glaucoma. A highly promising area of research is its use for PTSD in veterans who are returning from combat zones. Many veterans and their therapists report drastic improvement and clamor for more studies, and for a loosening of governmental restrictions on its study. Medical marijuana is also reported to help patients suffering from pain and wasting syndrome associated with HIV, as well as irritable bowel syndrome and Crohn’s disease.

This is not intended to be an inclusive list, but rather to give a brief survey of the types of conditions for which medical marijuana can provide relief. As with all remedies, claims of effectiveness should be critically evaluated and treated with caution.

Talking with your doctor
Many patients find themselves in the situation of wanting to learn more about medical marijuana, but feel embarrassed to bring this up with their doctor. This is in part because the medical community has been, as a whole, overly dismissive of this issue. Doctors are now playing catch-up, and trying to keep ahead of their patients’ knowledge on this issue. Other patients are already using medical marijuana, but don’t know how to tell their doctors about this for fear of being chided or criticized.

My advice for patients is to be entirely open and honest with your physicians and to have high expectations of them. Tell them that you consider this to be part of your care and that you expect them to be educated about it, and to be able to at least point you in the direction of the information you need.

My advice for doctors is that whether you are pro, neutral, or against medical marijuana, patients are embracing it, and although we don’t have rigorous studies and “gold standard” proof of the benefits and risks of medical marijuana, we need to learn about it, be open-minded, and above all, be non-judgmental. Otherwise, our patients will seek out other, less reliable sources of information; they will continue to use it, they just won’t tell us, and there will be that much less trust and strength in our doctor-patient relationship. I often hear complaints from other doctors that there isn’t adequate evidence to recommend medical marijuana, but there is even less scientific evidence for sticking our heads in the sand.

.
 

1maGoh

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My advice for doctors is that whether you are pro, neutral, or against medical marijuana, patients are embracing it, and although we don’t have rigorous studies and “gold standard” proof of the benefits and risks of medical marijuana, we need to learn about it, be open-minded, and above all, be non-judgmental.
From the last paragraph of that article. Apparently Harvard thinks the benefits are felt by the patients, but not verified by science. And by all means let's not be judgemental, but let that go for both sides until science has an official opinion.
 

LesBaker

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I think it has more to do with the fact that teenagers don't have fully developed brains-- especially the frontal lobes.

Maybe that's why they do stupid shit like Tide pod challenges HAHAHA.

The potency coupled with what you just said here is important. Factor in a lack of self control and it can get ugly.

In High School there was a group of us that used to see who could outbong the others once in awhile. One of the guys had parents that were out of town a lot so we would all crash there and hit the bong all night.Not the smartest thing we ever did.
 

g041579

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Oh I wouldn't go that far. It may not be for you but for those with addictive personalities it's another story entirely.
***************************************************************************************
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...teens-drug-clinics-treated-marijuana-use.html

Think it's harmless? Now nine in ten teens at drug clinics are being treated for marijuana use
By STEPHEN ADAMS and MARTIN BECKFORD

Cannabis is responsible for 91 per cent of cases where teenagers end up being treated for drug addiction, shocking new figures reveal.

Supporters of the drug claim it is harmless, but an official report now warns the ‘increased dominance of high-potency herbal cannabis’ – known as skunk – is causing more young people to seek treatment.

The revelation comes amid growing concerns that universities – and even some public schools – are awash with high-strength cannabis and other drugs.

The findings also back up academic research, revealed in The Mail on Sunday over the past three years, that skunk is having a serious detrimental impact on the mental health of the young. At least two studies have shown repeated use triples the risk of psychosis, with sufferers repeatedly experiencing delusional thoughts. Some victims end up taking their own lives.

The latest UK Focal Point on Drugs report, drawn up by bodies including Public Health England, the Scottish Government and the Home Office, found that:

  • Over the past decade, the number of under-18s treated for cannabis abuse in England has jumped 40 per cent – from 9,043 in 2006 to 12,712 in 2017;
  • Treatment for all narcotics has increased by 20 per cent – up from 11,618 to 13,961;
  • The proportion of juvenile drug treatment for cannabis use is up from four in five cases (78 per cent) to nine in ten (91 per cent
Last night, Lord Nicholas Monson, whose 21-year-old son Rupert Green killed himself last year after becoming hooked on high-strength cannabis, said: ‘These figures show the extent of the damage that high-potency cannabis wreaks on the young.

‘The big danger for young people – particularly teens – is that their brains can be really messed up by this stuff because they are still developing biologically. If they develop drug-induced psychosis – as Rupert did – the illness can stick for life.’

The large rise in the number of youngsters treated for cannabis abuse comes despite the fact that total usage is falling slightly.

The report concludes: ‘While fewer people are using cannabis, those who are using it are experiencing greater harm.’

Almost all cannabis on Britain’s streets is skunk, which is four times more powerful than types that dominated the market until the early 2000s. It can even trigger hallucinations.

You got to go to England to cherry pick some war on drugs propaganda.

You didn't read the article I posted on the scientist who discover cannabinoids and

endocannabinoid system in the human body and the medical benefits of them

and that Israel is pro medical cannabis because of his research and uses thc and cbd in their


hospitals.
 

nighttrain

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ah the good old days! in '64 i got my license, moved to the Bell area from Anaheim. New friends introduced me to herb, wow, it's been one hell of a ride!
train
 

Zodi

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What's funny is that you say follow the money, but others say the industry is about to make a ton of money turning cannabis into medicine. Shouldn't the same companies who have a hand on the game right now be trying to get into a product in their industry that's about to explode?

Some companies are dumb (looking at you Kodak), but most can see a trend and invest to make money. If it was legitimately a significant medical usage, one would expect Merck, Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson, etc trying to break in and supporting this. It's not like their customers are going to stop taking their current medicine because of the position. Their health can't afford it.

What I think turns people off to the possibility that it's a real medical benefit is the 20+ item lists of medical uses. It sounds exactly like snake oil. It's supposed to help with seizures, PTSD, chronic pain, inflammation, IBS, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, cancer (if this was even close to true every company would be all over it), concussions, glaucoma, and the list goes on and on. Seriously, we're supposed to believe that one plant fixes or helps with all that?

I've heard that claim before from Melaluca and several other "natural remedy" companies. And every time it's been a bunch of lies to sell products to gullible people. This time it's really popular because it has a recreational use too.

I'll never forget the wise words of Terry Goodkind:

People will believe anything you tell them, as long as they want it to be true or they're afraid that it's true.

To add to your list (which is definitely not snake oil based on science), hemp can be used to make a variety of things, too! Its indeed one of the most beneficial plants to humans.
 

Zodi

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Certainly can be addictive.

Anything can be psychologically addictive. But to the best of my knowledge, there's never been a newborn baby crying for cannabis because his mom was a former smoker. Nor has there ever been a case of a person dying from detoxing from THC due to the body's reliance on it.
 

fearsomefour

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Anything can be psychologically addictive. But to the best of my knowledge, there's never been a newborn baby crying for cannabis because his mom was a former smoker. Nor has there ever been a case of a person dying from detoxing from THC due to the body's reliance on it.
Psych addiction yes, I agree.
 

Akrasian

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What's funny is that you say follow the money, but others say the industry is about to make a ton of money turning cannabis into medicine. Shouldn't the same companies who have a hand on the game right now be trying to get into a product in their industry that's about to explode?

Unfortunately, there isn't the money to be made by developing a proprietary version that takes advantage of the benefits of cannabis. There are things like Marinol, which has shown significant benefits for nausea for chemo patients (and has also shown pain benefits, though it is not officially approved for it.) However, its primary advantage is that it is legal but expensive and tightly controlled. Good for states without medical marijuana, and good for patients travelling. However, marijuana is a fraction of the cost, and few within the target market are actually better off with Marinol instead of marijuana. Pharmaceutical companies make more money by having marijuana be illegal and tightly controlled, rather than there being sanctioned studies of its benefits.

Certainly, there are more benefits claimed than the science that is allowed warrants. Some people claim that it is a panacea for cancer, and studies outside of the US do not show that. However, epidemiologic studies in states with medical marijuana show a major reduction in opioid prescriptions, and its value in nausea reduction and appetite increase - both of which are major issues in cancer patients. But the money isn't there for Big Pharma, especially with the decrease in opioids.