The Jets game

[matt30]

I feel quite confident that figure is misleading because of our heavy usage of play-action.

I'm pretty sure something's off about that stat. Goff is in the top 5 most hit QBs and top 5 most blitzed QBs.

 

[PhillyRam]

I feel quite confident that figure is misleading because of our heavy usage of play-action.

Exactly, a QB has the ball in his hands longer on a roll out and we do that a lot as the OL does not have to hold up as long. This is how McVay protects his line and his C in particular

Yet, whenever Goff goes into a seven step drop he is under duress a significant amount of the time.

 

[FrantikRam]

I feel quite confident that figure is misleading because of our heavy usage of play-action.

I'm confident that the OL has been decent.

Say what you want about ESPN, they have people that are paid to look at every play - they rank us 7th at pass block win rate, which is the OL holding a block for at least 2.5 seconds.

Does Goff need it to be better? Yes - he needs a clean pocket to be successful.

I'm sure someone will say ESPN is trash, but I'd advise against it in this case unless they've also had time to watch every single lineman for every single snap this year.

That coupled with average time to throw and our relative success running the ball paints the picture that our OL is average. Throw in some failing eye tests and you get average-below average, but better than what several other QBs have.

I still agree with the premise that it needs to be improved because we're tied to Goff and he needs an elite OL

 

[jrry32]

I'm confident that the OL has been decent.

Say what you want about ESPN, they have people that are paid to look at every play - they rank us 7th at pass block win rate, which is the OL holding a block for at least 2.5 seconds.

Does Goff need it to be better? Yes - he needs a clean pocket to be successful.

I'm sure someone will say ESPN is trash, but I'd advise against it in this case unless they've also had time to watch every single lineman for every single snap this year.

That coupled with average time to throw and our relative success running the ball paints the picture that our OL is average. Throw in some failing eye tests and you get average-below average, but better than what several other QBs have.

I still agree with the premise that it needs to be improved because we're tied to Goff and he needs an elite OL

I'm confident in saying that our OL hasn't been the same since Whitworth went down. Before that, it was good. Since that point, it hasn't been remotely consistent. And again, the time to throw numbers are misleading because of our play action usage.

 

[matt30]

I'm confident that the OL has been decent.

Say what you want about ESPN, they have people that are paid to look at every play - they rank us 7th at pass block win rate, which is the OL holding a block for at least 2.5 seconds.

Does Goff need it to be better? Yes - he needs a clean pocket to be successful.

I'm sure someone will say ESPN is trash, but I'd advise against it in this case unless they've also had time to watch every single lineman for every single snap this year.

That coupled with average time to throw and our relative success running the ball paints the picture that our OL is average. Throw in some failing eye tests and you get average-below average, but better than what several other QBs have.

I still agree with the premise that it needs to be improved because we're tied to Goff and he needs an elite OL

That's just not right.

First, ESPN is not PFF. ESPN is using analytics based on NFL Next Gen Stats data. Nobody is sitting down watching the games. E.g. a successful QB rollout will almost alway be counted as a pass block win for example. The unit is not playing well, at all. Using the same metric, the Rams are one of the worst run blocking teams in the NFL (and that is much harder to game by creative playmaking).

Second, nothing has drastically changed since last year. This unit remains one of the worst in the NFL. Our entire offense this season has been built around that fact. We have only relied on the drop back passing game only when we felt the opposing defense could not generate sufficient pressure. Otherwise, the passing game has all been quick or deception based (play action, rollouts). We have the highest play action pass usage of any team in the NFL out of necessity.

 

[FrantikRam]

That's just not right.

First, ESPN is not PFF. ESPN is using analytics based on NFL Next Gen Stats data. Nobody is sitting down watching the games. E.g. a successful QB rollout will almost alway be counted as a pass block win for example. The unit is not playing well, at all. Using the same metric, the Rams are one of the worst run blocking teams in the NFL (and that is much harder to game by creative playmaking).

Second, nothing has drastically changed since last year. This unit remains one of the worst in the NFL. Our entire offense this season has been built around that fact. We have only relied on the drop back passing game only when we felt the opposing defense could not generate sufficient pressure. Otherwise, the passing game has all been quick or deception based (play action, rollouts). We have the highest play action pass usage of any team in the NFL out of necessity.

McVay used PA a lot when we had an elite OL. And we don't roll Goff out that much - fans for weeks have been criticizing McVay for not calling them more often. Even if ESPN uses NextGen stats, that's more reliable than fans saying the unit isn't good

 

[Merlin]

I'm confident in saying that our OL hasn't been the same since Whitworth went down. Before that, it was good. Since that point, it hasn't been remotely consistent. And again, the time to throw numbers are misleading because of our play action usage.

Agreed. The OL has slid game to game since Whit went out. Which makes sense, it does take defenses some time to adjust and focus in on weaknesses. That has happened to this unit. The book is out.

The weakness has as big of an effect as a strength. A guy like Whitworth elevates the play of anyone next to him. Edwards was looking very good most of the season. Sandwiched between Noteboom and Blythe, he is not looking that good. If they would have upgraded just Blythe alone it likely would have made an enormous difference. A stud center would improve play of both guards, which in turn makes things easier for both tackles. I know many here think the answer for the offensive line is on the roster, but I don't see a star caliber center on the roster. If none of them could unseat Blythe, who is bad, then how good can they be? One guy they liked as a guard or Center, but past up in round two by trading back is Elgton Jenkins, who just made the Pro Bowl. I get excited when I read about Olineman they really like, but its alk for naught. I see three OL positions that could stand to be upgraded and one really important future one. You're correct. Snead and McVay dug themselves a hole.

Without a doubt. Look at the Rams' OL in '99 and you see two guys (Pace and Timmerman) elevating the rest of those clowns. OL basically requires a couple plus guys to make a good line. But those other guys need to not be negatives. No scheme can account for one of your linemen having a tendency to be knocked back into your QB's lap.

Whit is absolutely a plus guy. Edwards is close to being one and will get there. But Blythe is a weak link. Make that spot a plus and all of a sudden things would look drastically different.

And as you pointed out LT into the future remains a problem. But IMO at this point... We won't draft LT until first round 2021. Next year will be more hoping that Whit can come through I'm afraid.

 

[Mackeyser]

Agreed. The OL has slid game to game since Whit went out. Which makes sense, it does take defenses some time to adjust and focus in on weaknesses. That has happened to this unit. The book is out.


Without a doubt. Look at the Rams' OL in '99 and you see two guys (Pace and Timmerman) elevating the rest of those clowns. OL basically requires a couple plus guys to make a good line. But those other guys need to not be negatives. No scheme can account for one of your linemen having a tendency to be knocked back into your QB's lap.

Whit is absolutely a plus guy. Edwards is close to being one and will get there. But Blythe is a weak link. Make that spot a plus and all of a sudden things would look drastically different.

And as you pointed out LT into the future remains a problem. But IMO at this point... We won't draft LT until first round 2021. Next year will be more hoping that Whit can come through I'm afraid.

One of the OL that has to be a plus guy HAS to be the Center.

Look at the difference Travis Frederick made for that Dallas OL. They were good before, but kept having issues up the middle. As a rookie, Frederick was solid enough for that OL to become one of the top OLs of that decade.

If we had a plus center, this entire offense is more than a touchdown a game better.

 

[matt30]

McVay used PA a lot when we had an elite OL. And we don't roll Goff out that much - fans for weeks have been criticizing McVay for not calling them more often. Even if ESPN uses NextGen stats, that's more reliable than fans saying the unit isn't good

The stat is new. Only a couple years old. And it has gone through major revisions every year since it was created. There may be a day that the stat tells us something useful, but I don't believe that's the case in its current state. [Right now the metric has the Browns, Cardinals, Eagles, and Seahawks among top 10 O-lines in the NFL. Consensus worse olines in the league. The only thing these teams share is the movement of the QB out of the pocket to pass the ball.] NFL offenses are too varied to be fully encapsulated by one number without explanation.

It's true that we've done play action a lot in the past (because the threat of TG was enough to prevent defenses fielding another coverage defensive back), but it's also true that we've completely eliminated the deep passing game from the offense. We rarely run a pass play from a straight drop that takes more than 2.5 seconds to develop.

 

[FrantikRam]

The stat is new. Only a couple years old. And it has gone through major revisions every year since it was created. There may be a day that the stat tells us something useful, but I don't believe that's the case in its current state. [Right now the metric has the Browns, Cardinals, Eagles, and Seahawks among top 10 O-lines in the NFL. Consensus worse olines in the league. The only thing these teams share is the movement of the QB out of the pocket to pass the ball.] NFL offenses are too varied to be fully encapsulated by one number without explanation.

It's true that we've done play action a lot in the past (because the threat of TG was enough to prevent defenses fielding another coverage defensive back), but it's also true that we've completely eliminated the deep passing game from the offense. We rarely run a pass play from a straight drop that takes more than 2.5 seconds to develop.

The Browns actually do have one of the best OLs in the league. Fair point on the rest.

All I'll say about deep passes is, we call plays where players are going deep - were not sure why they're not being attempted but OL is definitely one of the possibilities

 

[GoodBadUgly]

...

I’ve been begging for Oline picks early since the Rams - Pats Super Bowl. You’d think that needing to protect the Oline and how it stifles the game plan that McVay would request upgrades from what they have. ...

They've picked Alex Barron, Jason Smith, Greg Robinson in the 1st round since then along with quite a few 2nd and 3rd rounders. Not like they don't think along the same lines.

 

[FrantikRam]

They've picked Alex Barron, Jason Smith, Greg Robinson in the 1st round since then along with quite a few 2nd and 3rd rounders. Not like they don't think along the same lines.

Ouch man. No need to bring up those memories.

I thought he meant the second Rams-Pats Super Bowl

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

They've picked Alex Barron, Jason Smith, Greg Robinson in the 1st round since then along with quite a few 2nd and 3rd rounders. Not like they don't think along the same lines.

Who evaluated those guys? Is Boudreaux still here? Was it Loney? When was the last time they picked a center earlier than round 4?

You can't use the past failings of other staffs to grade this one. Sure Snead was a common denominator for one of those guys but position coaches go to these after season showcases and sit in on player evals too. At some point they need to fix the glaring hole in the Oline or concede to fall to annually struggling to make the playoffs. I'm pretty sure thats not their plan. I'm just not sure I understand how they are going about it. Maybe they'll draft a few more safeties this year.