The Coach that Killed a Dynasty

[den-the-coach]

Jay Zygmunt & Charley Armey did Mike Martz no favors. Vermeil was better at drafting, however, Vermeil had been a college commentator for years, so that was a plus. Martz needed a strong GM and I believe would have been okay, but Martz's undoing was Larry Marmie as Martz could not separate his personal feelings about an assistant coach in order to achieve a better result.

Larry Marmie gave Martz his shot at Arizona State, but Marmie just was not a good defensive coordinator and there was plenty of data to showcase that. Marmie was not good at Arizona and luckily, when the Rams asked for permission to interview Marmie after Martz fired Peter Giunta, the Cardinals denied permission and thankfully, Martz hired Lovie Smith.

When Smith left for the Bears, Marmie was available and although Jay Zygmunt wanted Martz to interview others like Dick Jauron for example, Martz told Jauron in the interview that he had promised the job to Marmie. And as expected Marmie's defense with the Rams were mediocre at best and just not up to par, but Martz would not fire him.

Years later even when Martz got another chance to be a head coach in that defunct league the San Diego Fleet, who was his defensive coordinator? None other than his good friend Larry Marmie. Martz never learned to separate friendships from working relationships and when it came to Marmie, he just stood behind him at all costs and eventually IMHO, was the reason for his undoing.

 

[Ramstien]

Martz was a very good offensive coordinator but was just not a very good head coach. Like the difference between being a good captain and being a good general in the army.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Martz was an issue as head coach, but I blame Jay Zygmunt & Charley Armey far more. I still cringe when I remember it was said that Martz wanted Troy Polamalu when the team selected Jimmy Kennedy. Zygmunt should have stuck to working on contracts instead of trying to play GM.

Sure Martz had final say on personnel, but as I recall, he claimed to have only used that power once. Sure the Rams had better drafts under Vermiel but that's easier to do picking near the top of each round. More difficult to screw that up picking in the blue chip range each year.

But in the end I guess they showed what Snead has said years later regarding the difficultly in making selections at the bottom portion of rounds. No wonder he keeps trading them.

Warner? It's hindsight, but it's a shame that Rams Park didn't go hard with the idea of Warner wearing a glove. Then again, Bulger was pretty good.

Thanks for the trip down memory lane.

Now thinking about Dre Bly dropping that easy INT in the Super Bowl vs. the Pats and Az Hakim muffing that punt in the playoffs vs. the Saints, and Jason Sehorn's play vs. the Panthers makes me feel less disgusted about Xavier Smith's punt muff last year.

 

[Tumak61]

I remember seeing Martz standing way down the sidelines from the team during games. Excellent O Coordinator without a doubt, but that relationship was going to end after the Super Bowl with Martz leaving to be a head coach or Vermeil stepping down. I'm not sure that decision would be different even if it could be made in hindsight.

 

[Allen2McVay]

With no Mike Martz, Jeff Hostetler would have been the QB in '99 and Kurt Warner story never gets written

"We will rally around Jeff Hostetler, and we will play good football."

 

[majrleaged]

Martz was an issue as head coach, but I blame Jay Zygmunt & Charley Armey far more. I still cringe when I remember it was said that Martz wanted Troy Polamalu when the team selected Jimmy Kennedy. Zygmunt should have stuck to working on contracts instead of trying to play GM.

Sure Martz had final say on personnel, but as I recall, he claimed to have only used that power once. Sure the Rams had better drafts under Vermiel but that's easier to do picking near the top of each round. More difficult to screw that up picking in the blue chip range each year.

But in the end I guess they showed what Snead has said years later regarding the difficultly in making selections at the bottom portion of rounds. No wonder he keeps trading them.

Warner? It's hindsight, but it's a shame that Rams Park didn't go hard with the idea of Warner wearing a glove. Then again, Bulger was pretty good.

Thanks for the trip down memory lane.

Now thinking about Dre Bly dropping that easy INT in the Super Bowl vs. the Pats and Az Hakim muffing that punt in the playoffs vs. the Saints, and Jason Sehorn's play vs. the Panthers makes me feel less disgusted about Xavier Smith's punt muff last year.

There was a power struggle between Martz and Zygmunt. I don't know if the Rams demise would have still happened, but losing the SB sealed the deal as far as Shaw was concerned and Zygmunt won out.

 

[RamDino]

IF Martz didn't have Ike, Torry Holt, Marshall, Az-Hakim, Pace, and Warner... he wouldn't have been a good offensive coordinator either. His strategy only worked because of those guys. That's why he got canned so often after leaving the Rams. JMO.

 

[Coliseum Ram]

IF Martz didn't have Ike, Torry Holt, Marshall, Az-Hakim, Pace, and Warner... he wouldn't have been a good offensive coordinator either. His strategy only worked because of those guys. That's why he got canned so often after leaving the Rams. JMO.

This is not meant at YOU, Dino.

Can we all please stop mentioning Az Hakim, when we reel off the litany of greats, Hall of Famers, and borderline Hall of Famers, from the Greatest Show On Turf Era? Marshall Faulk, Kurt Warner, Isaac Bruce, Orlando Pace, Torry Holt, stop putting this absolute MUTT with the greats.

His dropped punt in 2000 season Saints Playoff was an outright DISGRACE. Far worse than X. Smiths was. Nobody NEAR him, it was more important for him to "look cool" catching it.

He simply fields that Punt we author one of the great Playoff comebacks of All-Time and possibly spurs us to repeat Super Bowl appearance.

Az Hakim was JAG.

 

[Allen2McVay]

Jay Zygmunt & Charley Armey did Mike Martz no favors. Vermeil was better at drafting, however, Vermeil had been a college commentator for years, so that was a plus. Martz needed a strong GM and I believe would have been okay, but Martz's undoing was Larry Marmie as Martz could not separate his personal feelings about an assistant coach in order to achieve a better result.

Larry Marmie gave Martz his shot at Arizona State, but Marmie just was not a good defensive coordinator and there was plenty of data to showcase that. Marmie was not good at Arizona and luckily, when the Rams asked for permission to interview Marmie after Martz fired Peter Giunta, the Cardinals denied permission and thankfully, Martz hired Lovie Smith.

When Smith left for the Bears, Marmie was available and although Jay Zygmunt wanted Martz to interview others like Dick Jauron for example, Martz told Jauron in the interview that he had promised the job to Marmie. And as expected Marmie's defense with the Rams were mediocre at best and just not up to par, but Martz would not fire him.

Years later even when Martz got another chance to be a head coach in that defunct league the San Diego Fleet, who was his defensive coordinator? None other than his good friend Larry Marmie. Martz never learned to separate friendships from working relationships and when it came to Marmie, he just stood behind him at all costs and eventually IMHO, was the reason for his undoing.

View attachment 75687

My all-time-favorite Mike Martz quote ... the one than encapsulates the man ... was specifically about his then Defensive Coordinator Larry Marmie.

The Rams' Defense was struggling, and Martz was asked about his DC ... Martz stated:
"Larry Marmie. Oh, everyone knows, he is just the best."

 

[dieterbrock]

I'd say the "favorable" officiating in Superbowl 36 killed the dynasty more than Martz

 

[Tano]

This is not meant at YOU, Dino.

Can we all please stop mentioning Az Hakim, when we reel off the litany of greats, Hall of Famers, and borderline Hall of Famers, from the Greatest Show On Turf Era? Marshall Faulk, Kurt Warner, Isaac Bruce, Orlando Pace, Torry Holt, stop putting this absolute MUTT with the greats.

His dropped punt in 2000 season Saints Playoff was an outright DISGRACE. Far worse than X. Smiths was. Nobody NEAR him, it was more important for him to "look cool" catching it.

He simply fields that Punt we author one of the great Playoff comebacks of All-Time and possibly spurs us to repeat Super Bowl appearance.

Az Hakim was JAG.

Hakim was awesome as a 3rd receiver but he fumbled way too often,

Martz made a mistake having him field that punt against the Saints. Should have replaced him with someone with surer hands.

 

[Coliseum Ram]

My all-time-favorite Mike Martz quote ... the one than encapsulates the man ... was specifically about his then Defensive Coordinator Larry Marmie.

The Rams' Defense was struggling, and Martz was asked about his DC ... Martz stated:
"Larry Marmie. Oh, everyone knows, he is just the best."

Thats a good one. And by good I mean pathetic.

Here's my favorite good (pathetic) Martz-ian quote of the era:

"Shoot, we'll fix that......"

 

[Allen2McVay]

That's a good one. And by good I mean pathetic.

Here's my favorite good (pathetic) Martz-ian quote of the era:

"Shoot, we'll fix that......"

You're right. That was a Staple Comment from Martz.

First couple times I heard it, made me feel good that the Head Coach was on top of things, and would correct problems/issues. By the end of his tenure, that common reply cut through me, and I wanted to "shoot" Martz.

 

[gogoat1]

I was a Martz guy, did not consider Vermeil a good coach (98 near mutiny) But, what is this "Dynasty" stuff, We were not one back then.
Actually were are much closer to one right now.

 

[Ram65]

I'm looking forward to the 2026 Rams.

 

[WestCoastRam]

Matz's 2001 defensive reset was impressive and I thought that team was actually better than 1999 but it did not have the Vermeil magic.

And of note there, Martz wanted to hire Marmie (was that the dude's name?) in 2001 but was dissuaded from doing it by I forget who and we got Lovie for a little bit.

Can you imagine if we had Marmie right away? Dogsh*t defense.

Martz was a great OC for awhile (would not adjust to changing game eventually and unwilling to protect his QB) but not a great head coach.

Lovie while imperfect brought a lot to the table along with the remainders of the team that Vermeil assembled.

Everything had to come together for the 1999-2001 run. I do give Martz some credit for that 2003 run.

 

[AZRams]

The dysfunctional front office killed was a cancer and Martz's greatest failure was running off a HOF QB.

Ultimately Hubris from Martz and front office killed that team. Martz was a great offensive mind but Vermeil was instrumental in assembling the great team. No one person was solely responsible for the team's success. It was just a great assembly of talent both coaching and players that made that team so great. When the great players Vermeil had assembled started aging out the team declined and the FO was too incompetent to replace them. The coaching and FO egos were too much and the center could not hold. It happens to a lot of teams. Note: Matz's 2001 defensive reset was impressive and I thought that team was actually better than 1999 but it did not have the Vermeil magic.

Vermeil was the glue that kept things together. Incdientally his KC offense was really very good for a time even without Martz and the HOF players the Rams had in 1999.

Over time they drove it into a ditch. That team was talented enough to win at least one more SB title, maybe more.

Martz did a bad coaching job in 36 and over the next few years he and the FO were horrible in the draft.

 

[David Ray]

I'd say the "favorable" officiating in Superbowl 36 killed the dynasty more than Martz

The then-COO of the NFL, Roger Goodell, made sure that his employees (Benie Kucar & Co.) knew the assignment. Get bob WITCHkraft a HAPPY ENDING so I can get his backing for the job of Commisioner.
QUID PRO QUO

 

[Merlin]

Larry Marmie gave Martz his shot at Arizona State, but Marmie just was not a good defensive coordinator and there was plenty of data to showcase that. Marmie was not good at Arizona and luckily, when the Rams asked for permission to interview Marmie after Martz fired Peter Giunta, the Cardinals denied permission and thankfully, Martz hired Lovie Smith.

Ah yes the old "Marmalade Defense." Good times.

 

[Memphis Ram]

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