Thank you California for the new law

[Psycho_X]

California government sounds almost as dysfunctional as the state I live in. But I'm all on board for this law. I hope to god this spreads nationally very quickly. I would sign up for directv again if I wasn't forced to go through their shit phone support for everything..

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/california-online-cancellation-law-benefits-041214118.html

A new California law that went into effect on July 1 will make it much easier for people to cancel subscriptions online. Since the bill, sponsored by State Sen. Bob Hertzberg (D-Van Nuys), includes all services that have paying customers in the state, it will also benefit dissatisfied customers in many places outside California.

The legislation, California Senate Bill No. 313, covers “any business that makes an automatic renewal or continuous service offer to a consumer in this state,” so that includes a very wide range of services, including newspapers and magazines, subscription boxes, streaming services and more. Not only that, but if you made the subscription online, the law stipulates that you are also allowed to cancel it online. In other words, you can no longer be forced to call a customer service phone number to stop the service, a task that is usually much more frustrating and time-consuming than signing up in the first place.

The bill also requires more transparency in how companies present promotional offers. For example, if they lure in users with a free trial or gift, then they also need to include a “clear and conspicuous explanation” in the offer of how much customers will be charged after the trial ends or if the pricing will change. It also needs to tell you how to cancel (and actually allow you to do so) before you are charged.

If you sign up for a subscription at a promotional or discounted price that is only valid for a certain amount of time, the company must get your consent again before charging your debit or credit card when the price returns to its normal rate.

According to Nieman Lab, many news organizations in California are already making changes to their systems to comply with the new law.

 

[OldSchool]

AT&T we're looking at you among many others.

 

[Alan]

California leading the way as usual.

 

[LesBaker]

It's a win for consumers.

 

[Dodgersrf]

We shall see. Laws are useless without enforcement. It looks good on paper though.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Gyms are terrible about this kind of stuff, having crazy requirements to leave but being super easy to sign up.

I know gyms that require hand written letters sent on certain days, its fucking stupid.

 

[RamFan503]

AT&T we're looking at you among many others.

And charter cable.

 

[RamFan503]

Gyms are terrible about this kind of stuff, having crazy requirements to leave but being super easy to sign up.

I know gyms that require hand written letters sent on certain days, its freaking stupid.

Yep. Happened to us. We ended up contacting our state reps and senators and all they “suggested” the club do is forgive this member (us) or we may have to address your practices. Fucking worthless politicians.

 

[Farr Be It]

:burp: This is the greatest legislative accomplishment since they cracked down on cow farts...

 

[fearsomefour]

AT&T we're looking at you among many others.

People don't read their terms.
This won't change.
So, people will get hit with early terms then cry like children.
Fair enough though.

 

[fearsomefour]

Yep. Happened to us. We ended up contacting our state reps and senators and all they “suggested” the club do is forgive this member (us) or we may have to address your practices. freaking worthless politicians.

My wife used to own a gym, like most, was a chain. Which is to say a franchise.
They (corporate) of course benefit by making it hard to unenroll. Had to request it in writing from the company (not the gym owner, don't know if the company was owned by corp or not) that handled the auto withdrawals.
It is in the terms and conditions. No excuse for not knowing. This is why a lawsuit won't work. The member agreed to these conditions.
Now, she made a point of telling people this directly when signing them up and highlighting it in the terms. The majority still cried and whined about it.
I agree, it's not how I would run a business but it is a two way street.

 

[OldSchool]

People don't read their terms.
This won't change.
So, people will get hit with early terms then cry like children.
Fair enough though.

Not talking about that, it’s impossible to go online and cancel service when your contract term is up.

 

[RamFan503]

My wife used to own a gym, like most, was a chain. Which is to say a franchise.
They (corporate) of course benefit by making it hard to unenroll. Had to request it in writing from the company (not the gym owner, don't know if the company was owned by corp or not) that handled the auto withdrawals.
It is in the terms and conditions. No excuse for not knowing. This is why a lawsuit won't work. The member agreed to these conditions.
Now, she made a point of telling people this directly when signing them up and highlighting it in the terms. The majority still cried and whined about it.
I agree, it's not how I would run a business but it is a two way street.

Actually, what was happening was they were using different address than was on the contract, so that meant another month. We had a hand written section of the contract initialed by their manager and us that there would be no auto renewal. Even though we produced a copy for them, they denied that as being valid as the manager was no longer with them - as if they were not responsible for their rep's agreement. Then they responded to our cancellation with repeated "are you sure?" type responses.

And a lawsuit would have worked but decent attorneys weren't interested because the amount of money wasn't enough for them to want to pursue it. Even though they likely would have won and been paid for their work, most of them would only go after it if it was a class action. It would have essentially been winning simply for the sake of winning. I forget the structure of the company but apparently they had protected themselves to where each club was essentially a one off. That meant a class action would still have a low yield.

Anyway - none of us had time to screw around with a lawsuit so we wrote letters and that got our particular situation resolved. Law makers know about this crap going on. They could have changed it long ago. There was even a bill in Oregon to do what CA is talking about. But they did a gut and stuff so the law was completely useless and essentially unrelated to the issue. Look for CA to do the same damn thing.

 

[Farr Be It]

I was foolish enough to sign one of those memberships. Pretty tough to get out of it. But it was my own fault. I learned my lesson.

Guess what? The market is stepping in. Competition has caused the pendulum to swing. Now most clubs know you have to allow month to month to win people’s business.

Ah the market. In steps Ca.

To the rescue.

 

[RamFan503]

I was foolish enough to sign one of those memberships. Pretty tough to get out of it. But it was my own fault. I learned my lesson.

Guess what? The market is stepping in. Competition has caused the pendulum to swing. Now most clubs know you have to allow month to month to win people’s business.

Ah the market. In steps Ca.

To the rescue.

Yeah - It's funny because we know a guy who owns 3 health clubs. He says they are licenses to print money as people rarely use their memberships much at all and they can way oversell they facility knowing that only about (I think he said)20% of their members will actually show up. A law that truly prevents them from doing auto billing would hurt them I'm sure. But the devil is in the details. A bill can say one thing but not actually do what it says at all depending on the wording and implementing legislation. Y'know...… sausage.

 

[LesBaker]

My wife used to own a gym, like most, was a chain. Which is to say a franchise.
They (corporate) of course benefit by making it hard to unenroll. Had to request it in writing from the company (not the gym owner, don't know if the company was owned by corp or not) that handled the auto withdrawals.
It is in the terms and conditions. No excuse for not knowing. This is why a lawsuit won't work. The member agreed to these conditions.
Now, she made a point of telling people this directly when signing them up and highlighting it in the terms. The majority still cried and whined about it.
I agree, it's not how I would run a business but it is a two way street.

Was it an LA Fitness? I had nothing but trouble with that outfit and got harassed during a couple of phone calls from the corporate office.

I did everything according to policy to cancel a service because I had signed up for their personal training program. Which was a joke because they had constant turnover so their was no consistency and way too often there wasn't even a trainer to schedule with on days I wanted to use one. So I wanted to terminate that part of my membership. It was a pain in the ass but I followed through correctly.

I was forced to pay for three more months before the cancellation took effect, $300 out of pocket. But they kept taking the $100 out after the 3 months so I had to go to my bank 3 times to charge the $100 back and had to make a couple of useless phone calls to the corporate office that got me nowhere. I finally just had a new card issued with different numbers because of the hassle.

I suspect it was the owner of the local gym that was just not filling out whatever they had to fill out on their end so they could keep cashing in for a few extra months.

Not talking about that, it’s impossible to go online and cancel service when your contract term is up.

The worst is the cable outfits that give you a low monthly intro rate then tell you it will change to a certain amount after 12 months. Only to see it change to a MUCH higher amount. That was a common thing with a company here called Century Link. When you would call in to enroll the person on the other end was often dishonest and would sign you up for the highest end plan because of bonuses they got I would bet.

Suddenly your bill would go from 99 bucks to 280 bucks. Very rotten tactics. And since it was done over the phone no terms are known you have to rely on the person to tell the truth..........and that doesn't always happen. It gave them a really bad rep around here.

 

[LesBaker]

Yeah - It's funny because we know a guy who owns 3 health clubs.

I went to a small privately owned gym for a few years and got to know the woman that managed it. The owner was onsite a lot but she was there all the time so we talked often. It was 10 bucks a month which is cheap. But she had said in one conversation they had about 2,000 active members. So the monthly fee covered costs and provided a little profit. Now this was a small gym and if 10% of that 200 or so showed up we wouldn't have all fit LOL. So I can understand your friends

The big payday was the once a year membership fee of $45 which netted him over 100K every year. Your friend is probably making serious money I bet.

I ended up leaving that gym after finding out about the guys past. He was a real POS. He sold it about two years ago but I'm at a new gym and happy with it.

 

[fearsomefour]

Not talking about that, it’s impossible to go online and cancel service when your contract term is up.

Yeah
For specific reasons. But I get it.

 

[fearsomefour]

Yeah - It's funny because we know a guy who owns 3 health clubs. He says they are licenses to print money as people rarely use their memberships much at all and they can way oversell they facility knowing that only about (I think he said)20% of their members will actually show up. A law that truly prevents them from doing auto billing would hurt them I'm sure. But the devil is in the details. A bill can say one thing but not actually do what it says at all depending on the wording and implementing legislation. Y'know...… sausage.

Exactly.
20% is about right. If a majority of members showed up on a regular basis the clubs would be unusable.

 

[RamFan503]

Was it an LA Fitness?

No. I forget the name but it was the town name followed by something like fitness center or something.