Taylor Lewan - Tale of the Tape

[Warner4Prez]

NFL Officials don't tend to be too forgiving with LTs when it comes to getting their hands up in the opposing DL's helmet.

Tell that one to Quinn and Long.

 

[Alan]

Dodgersrf mistaking me for someone who knows what they're talking about:
So Martin could very well be in play at 13.

In my mind yeah. If we take someone like Watkins at #2 and we can't find a trade partner at #13.

 

[DR RAM]

@jrry32 this is exactly what I saw when I evaluated him. Waist bender, and he stops his feet too much. Tends to lunge too much and his head gets way over his base. I think some of his issues are coachable, maybe all of them, but it worries me that with all his experience at a big time program, that he exhibits some of these behaviors. I think Matthews and Robinson are way better players. I've studied extensive tape on several of the OT's in this class, and every class before them for a while now.

One thing that Lewan has is size, mass, and speed, and some of those things can't be taught. His game play just isn't there. I would hope that if we don't take one of the top 2, then we'd trade down and get a lot more value in a guy like Bitonio, who I like better than Martin.

 

[Dodgersrf]

In my mind yeah. If we take someone like Watkins at #2 and we can't find a trade partner at #13.

Well, no one really knows.
After the first couple picks, the draft resembles nothing like the "experts" predictions.
There are always surprise picks and moves.

A few years ago we took Jl when every expert had Malualuga (sp) rated higher.
Many thought we were going to take RM. Including myself.

 

[RamFan503]

@jrry32 - I was hopin' we could get this out of you with all this Lewan talk. Thanks.

 

[fearsomefour]

Most of what jrry32 has graciously taken time to explain is on target....when we watched the OL'ers in the combine earlier this yr ...it was stamped with a ! when the OT's went through their drills. What I saw in Jake Mathews with his natural knee bending maneuvers & control of his body & position in comparison to Taylor's not even close. I will take the smaller less athletic and less strong OT Jake Matthews all day over Taylor Lewan.

Boudreau likes OL'ers to be able to play many OL positions...I do think that Lewan can play both OT positions but it looks very doubtful he could perfrom inside if needed. I think that Lewan will be a starter in the NFL but it most likely will be as a RIGHT OT position. I prefer Jawuan James/Tennessee much better than Lewan myself.

Exactly. Well said.

 

[The Rammer]

I'm just a big of a Michigan Wolverine fan as I am a Rams fan and have followed Taylor Lewan since he stepped into Ann Arbor and can say that he does not possess the same kind of skills as of this moment as Matthews or Robinson. He has a ton to work on but in no way is he utter trash. I'd probably rank him from mid teens to upper 1st rd. as a prospect.

 

[jrry32]

You guys kill me. On the one hand you all gush about how great Bou is and on the other hand you are all ready to bash him if we draft Lewan. Does anyone actually think we'll be drafting a LT without major input from Bou? The have your cake and eat it crowd. If you're right about Lewan and you're right about Bou then we won't draft him. If we do draft him then that means you're wrong about at least one of them. So either the sky is falling or it isn't and you're still running around like chickens with your heads cut off. :seizure:

I've written down everyone's name who claims they're going to explode if we pick him and if I ever read a post where you're gushing about Bou's acumen and prowess as a coach, I'm going to give you a lump of coal for Xmas instead of the really, really nice fruitcake I had planned on sending you.

Alan, I don't doubt Boudreau's ability to coach or knowledge of the game.

But coaches aren't scouts. They don't have the same amount of time to put into film evaluation of draft prospects. And some coaches don't evaluate prospects that well.

Mike Martz was a brilliant offensive mind. I'd never question his knowledge of the game or ability to implement an offense...but aside from QBs, Mike Martz was a far from effective talent evaluator.

 

[DR RAM]

Alan, I don't doubt Boudreau's ability to coach or knowledge of the game.

But coaches aren't scouts. They don't have the same amount of time to put into film evaluation of draft prospects. And some coaches don't evaluate prospects that well.

Mike Martz was a brilliant offensive mind. I'd never question his knowledge of the game or ability to implement an offense...but aside from QBs, Mike Martz was a far from effective talent evaluator.

I still remember, and have it recorded, when all the on-field commentators popped a boner over Lewan's 40 time. They moved him up the board right there, and it continued in the post-combine commentary. I was thinking the whole time...did they watch ANY tape on the guy. Call me baffled at the Lewan love, other than he looks great in shorts, and a tank top.

 

[Alan]

jrry32 begging me for one of my fruitcakes:
Alan, I don't doubt Boudreau's ability to coach or knowledge of the game.

But coaches aren't scouts. They don't have the same amount of time to put into film evaluation of draft prospects. And some coaches don't evaluate prospects that well.

I understand your nuancing of this but I really doubt what you say about Bou is correct. When we brought in Davin Joseph for an evaluation who was it that evaluated him? I don't believe that position coaches fall into the same category that you put Martz in. Not to mention that I think Martz is what I would consider to be an "idiot savant" and thus not a good example. I mean really, what else could he do besides OC and QB coach?

The O-line coach has to spend countless hours studying tapes of his players. Even more so in todays NFL because of the drastically reduced practices. While what you say about scouts having much more time to look at tape of players is true, you're forgetting that the scout has to look at hundreds of O-line players and Bou only has to look at a few we're interested in drafting. There is something to what you're saying jrry but I'll stick with my thought that Bou probably has a huge say in whether we should draft a particular O-line player or not. Why have Bou evaluate players if he isn't any good at it? Just to stroke his ego?

http://www.stlouisrams.com/news-and...Prospect/e8a4609f-7efc-4bdc-ae45-cf8a1ed90340
Following a strong showing at the NFL Combine, Matthews impressed at his Pro Day on March 5, where he worked out for a group of coaches and scouts that included Rams offensive line coach Paul Boudreau."

 

[jrry32]

I understand your nuancing of this but I really doubt what you say about Bou is correct. When we brought in Davin Joseph for an evaluation who was it that evaluated him? I don't believe that position coaches fall into the same category that you put Martz in. Not to mention that I think Martz is what I would consider to be an "idiot savant" and thus not a good example. I mean really, what else could he do besides OC and QB coach?

The Pro Personnel Staff and GM.

The O-line coach has to spend countless hours studying tapes of his players. Even more so in todays NFL because of the drastically reduced practices. While what you say about scouts having much more time to look at tape of players is true, you're forgetting that the scout has to look at hundreds of O-line players and Bou only has to look at a few we're interested in drafting. There is something to what you're saying jrry but I'll stick with my thought that Bou probably has a huge say in whether we should draft a particular O-line player or not. Why have Bou evaluate players if he isn't any good at it? Just to stroke his ego?

http://www.stlouisrams.com/news-and...Prospect/e8a4609f-7efc-4bdc-ae45-cf8a1ed90340
Following a strong showing at the NFL Combine, Matthews impressed at his Pro Day on March 5, where he worked out for a group of coaches and scouts that included Rams offensive line coach Paul Boudreau."

I'm sure he does have a say. But being a great coach doesn't necessarily equate to being a great talent evaluator.

 

[Alan]

jrry32 going on supposition alone:
The Pro Personnel Staff and GM.

I'm sure he does have a say. But being a great coach doesn't necessarily equate to being a great talent evaluator.

Why did you leave Bou out off that list? Do you know that he took no part in the eval? While I disagree with what you're saying here, I have an even bigger problem with your whole contention about Bou.

Just exactly why is it that you think Bou isn't the best O-line talent evaluator in the NFL? You say stuff like "he might not be" and put out the supposition that he's just a great O-line coach. That's based on what? Do you have something to back up that contention similar to the facts you could show about Martz not knowing his ass from his elbow? I'd like to hear it. Why would you assume that he has no clue?

My contention that he's great at talent evaluation of O-line players is just as valid as your supposition that he isn't and is merely a great coach because we both have nothing to back up our contentions. Come up with some proof that he isn't and I'll be swayed. In the meantime, I'll live with my assumption, true or not, that he's actually able to evaluate the talent of players playing at positions he's been coaching for much of his professional life. Something that you can't say about your example of Martz.

 

[DR RAM]

From everything that I've heard, the Rams have a very collaborative effort going into the draft process. Bou, and Wauffle participated in a lot of our top workout processes.

 

[jrry32]

Why did you leave Bou out off that list? Do you know that he took no part in the eval? While I disagree with what you're saying here, I have an even bigger problem with your whole contention about Bou.

No. They probably ran it past him but considering they plan for FA months in advance, I doubt Boudreau was involved when they were putting things together beyond telling them what he wants in an OL or OG. After the season, I have no idea how involved he was or wasn't. Only the Rams know.

Just exactly why is it that you think Bou isn't the best O-line talent evaluator in the NFL? You say stuff like "he might not be" and put out the supposition that he's just a great O-line coach. That's based on what? Do you have something to back up that contention similar to the facts you could show about Martz not knowing his ass from his elbow? I'd like to hear it. Why would you assume that he has no clue?

Lets not put words in my mouth, Alan. I said that being a great coach doesn't necessarily make you a great talent evaluator. I never said Boudreau can or can't evaluate talent. I don't know how good he is at it. What I do know is that I'm not going to change my opinion on a player because the Rams drafted him. I'm not just going to assume that I'm wrong.

I've taken the time to break down Lewan's film. If the Rams draft him, I will stand by my evaluation and be unhappy with the pick on draft day. Even knowing that Boudreau signed off on it.

I'll also hope that I am wrong and Lewan pans out because my ego is less important to me than watching the team be successful.

My contention that he's great at talent evaluation of O-line players is just as valid as your supposition that he isn't and is merely a great coach because we both have nothing to back up our contentions. Come up with some proof that he isn't and I'll be swayed. In the meantime, I'll live with my assumption, true or not, that he's actually able to evaluate the talent of players playing at positions he's been coaching for much of his professional life. Something that you can't say about your example of Martz.

It is just as valid. And neither of us have any proof dictating how good or bad he is. We both agree he's excellent at coaching.

Where we disagree is the assumption that because the Rams picked Lewan, Boudreau works for the Rams, and Boudreau likely signed off on the pick...that the Rams/Boudreau are right.

I don't care if the media or the Rams agree with me. I've taken the time here to evaluate the kid and I don't like his game. I could be wrong. Maybe the Rams see something I don't or maybe the Rams believe they can fix his problems. Regardless, I don't like what I see and the Rams having a different opinion won't change mine.

Does that make sense? Do you understand where I'm coming from here, my friend?

 

[Alan]

jrry32 with this:
Lets not put words in my mouth, Alan. I said that being a great coach doesn't necessarily make you a great talent evaluator. I never said Boudreau can or can't evaluate talent.
"he might not be" is pretty damn close to "doesn't necessarily make" in my book. I was just paraphrasing to the best of my recollection because I didn't want to have to re-read your whole post to find your exact words. My bad. I'll try to be more diligent in the future but not after 2000 hours.

Does that make sense? Do you understand where I'm coming from here, my friend?

Yes I do and I agree with everything else you said in the post above.

 

[jrry32]

I scouted a bunch of Taylor Lewan film. I agree with you. Did you see that play when he held Clowney by the dreadlocks? I'm afraid Lewan will be a penalty machine. We were second only to the Seahawks in penalties. With Taylor Lewan on board, we topple Seattle!

Yea, that play is actually the third picture under Problem #2 interestingly enough. I can't tell if he had the dreadlocks the whole time or not. I think he originally had the side of the helmet near the ear-hole and when Clowney brought his arm over and knocked down Lewan's arms, Lewan's hand slipped down and he grabbed at whatever he could.

But yea, he's a guy that instinctively grabs especially when he feels he's getting beat, often goes too high with his punches, and has some anger issues that lead to personal fouls. Some legitimate fears about his ability to control himself.

 

[rdlkgliders]

Nice write up Jrry I appreciate the effort people put into there posts whether I agree with them or not. I wish I could find the time. I had an early day today 10 hrs so I have a minute to read and escape this solid Silver is stronger than Sterling silver stuff flooding every news source here in LA. I can't say I have had the opportunity to dissect his technique and trust your views. It is difficult in some of the pics to see if the waist bending is coming from moving his opponent back which would create the space between them and in turn create a reaching affect. Either way he certainly looks to have some question marks and we don't need any Lawrence Phillips types.

 

[RamFan503]

@Alan I do think you're putting thoughts into what Jrry and others have said that weren't put there by Jrry and others. In all honesty, I think you are the one drawing a false conclusion. Just because we think Bou is a very good O-line coach, it doesn't mean we are trying to have our cake and eat it too if we don't agree with a pick the Rams may or may not make at O-line. We can all think in different directions here. I happen to think Bou is a VERY good O-line coach - maybe one of the best in the game. I'm not sure if that means he is a great teacher of men or a great coach of talent or.... I also don't know if the Rams might bring him in to see if what they have watched on tape could be a problem too difficult to overcome or if it is something that is teachable/coachable/undoable. He may or may not be a good talent evaluator. I don't know but I can tell you after years of watching this game, the two don't necessarily go hand in hand and Martz is far from an anomaly in that respect. Does that mean we can't like Bou as a coach but question a potential pick - especially being that we have no idea what he even thinks of the O-line prospects? Do we have to wait to see who we pick and simply believe he is the right guy if we like Boudreau as a coach?

He might not be - doesn't necessarily make - both sound like apt descriptors from someone who doesn't know Bou's evaluation abilities. Both could easily be said by someone who thinks Bou is a great coach.

Of course we don't know WHAT the Rams OR Bou think of Lewan - true? We really can only go with our opinions at this point. My opinion is that Bou is a great coach but Lewan is not a great LT prospect. I certainly wouldn't say that I know more than Bou or that anyone should value my opinion over his. But my assumption to this point is that Mel Kiper is full of shit and my opinion holds water. I hope Bou agrees. 'Cuz otherwise - he sucks.

 

[laramsoriginal]

You guys kill me. On the one hand you all gush about how great Bou is and on the other hand you are all ready to bash him if we draft Lewan. Does anyone actually think we'll be drafting a LT without major input from Bou? The have your cake and eat it crowd. If you're right about Lewan and you're right about Bou then we won't draft him. If we do draft him then that means you're wrong about at least one of them. So either the sky is falling or it isn't and you're still running around like chickens with your heads cut off. :seizure:

I've written down everyone's name who claims they're going to explode if we pick him and if I ever read a post where you're gushing about Bou's acumen and prowess as a coach, I'm going to give you a lump of coal for Xmas instead of the really, really nice fruitcake I had planned on sending you.

All these prospects are college kids.

OP

If we're going to knit pick then I don't want the rams drafting anyone @2 because they're not worth it

 

[Alan]

RamFan503 taking me to task:
I do think you're putting thoughts into what Jrry and others have said that weren't put there by Jrry and others. In all honesty, I think you are the one drawing a false conclusion. Just because we think Bou is a very good O-line coach, it doesn't mean we are trying to have our cake and eat it too if we don't agree with a pick the Rams may or may not make at O-line. We can all think in different directions here. I happen to think Bou is a VERY good O-line coach - maybe one of the best in the game. I'm not sure if that means he is a great teacher of men or a great coach of talent or.... I also don't know if the Rams might bring him in to see if what they have watched on tape could be a problem too difficult to overcome or if it is something that is teachable/coachable/undoable. He may or may not be a good talent evaluator. I don't know but I can tell you after years of watching this game, the two don't necessarily go hand in hand and Martz is far from an anomaly in that respect. Does that mean we can't like Bou as a coach but question a potential pick - especially being that we have no idea what he even thinks of the O-line prospects? Do we have to wait to see who we pick and simply believe he is the right guy if we like Boudreau as a coach?

He might not be - doesn't necessarily make - both sound like apt descriptors from someone who doesn't know Bou's evaluation abilities. Both could easily be said by someone who thinks Bou is a great coach.

Of course we don't know WHAT the Rams OR Bou think of Lewan - true? We really can only go with our opinions at this point. My opinion is that Bou is a great coach but Lewan is not a great LT prospect. I certainly wouldn't say that I know more than Bou or that anyone should value my opinion over his.

It's not true that I was putting my thoughts into what jrry and the others said. When I was saying that I was coming at it from the direction of Bou being a great talent evaluator. Looking at it from my perspective I believe that what i said was relevant and appropriate.

But more importantly, it's not about Bou being a good coach and you still not liking Lewan. It's the fact that if the Rams pick Lewan it will be because Bou said it was a good idea. If you think that's not true then doesn't that mean you think that Bou is not a great judge of O-line talent? On what basis do you hold that view? I see plenty of logical reasons why he could be an expert and no reason he wouldn't be except that not all coaches are good talent evaluators. Do I have something wrong there so far?

So knowing that you think he isn't a great judge of talent, I wouldn't expect you to later make comments like, "whatever Bou thinks is good with me." That's what I referred to as having your cake and eating it too. You either believe he's a great judge of talent and put your trust in his choices or you don't. Be consistent. But I was really only ribbing you guys a little as I noted when I said I was only 50% serious.