Tavon Austin disappearing from Rams offense/NFL.com

[Speeps]

TA has played 6 games in the NFL. I'm not reading into anything. It's waaaaay to early for this tbh.

 

[WvuIN02]

Thor: Eh, did you watch the Pats Jets game? Pats receivers dropped a TON of passes in that game and they didn't get benched. Even Brady mentioned not being so hard on rookies, because they're, well, rookies.


And X, let me give you a number.

22

That's the ranking of Brian Schottenheimer's offenses during his career in the NFL vs the rest of the league. Career mediocrity would be putting it nicely. And the fact is.....Fisher isn't running the offense, Schotty is, and he hired him....

BS is a guy whose only success has been on a team which had a stacked OL and running game + a top 3 defense to bail him out there. They sure didn't win in NY with offense. I think any reasonable fan would question why he was hired in the first place. I've love to know the answer to that, because I'm seeing a ton of weapons not being used correctly (Cook -- beast....making no impact, Givens one of the best deep threats in the league and Sam has almost the lowest yards per pass in the NFL...etc).

I think JF is a good coach, but if this continues all season I will have my doubts about the future if BS still remains.

No need to be obstreperous old boy ,YES I know the Pats are rec. poor and Brady has no alternatives and FWIW everyone knows it, none of those guys who are dropping passes came with the hype that caused the Pats to move up to select them, you need to realize Tavon has to bring the game or sit, period ,Pettis ,Givens,Kendricks, Cook all want the ball too ,if Tavon wants it and you want him to get it, he has had chances and he's muffing them so turn your ire upon the real cause of his problems ,even when he's gotten the ball he's tried to fake the best out and it ain't ACC DB's he's facing.
It's not Shotty's fault he's been so indecisive once the ball's in his hands, I 4 one would LOVE to see them run stretch plays with the munchkin and MAKE him play "one cut and go" instead of his current tendency to try to fake the whole defense simultaneously the way he could in college.

He catches the ball and is bracketed by 2+ defenders every time. Its the job of the OC to find ways to get him in OPEN space, but when Bradford is putting out a pitiful 6.2 yards per pass play (which is almost the worst of starting QBs in the NFL) defenses just stay near the line of scrimmage. This teams inability to actually push the ball down the field is making open space impossible to find when nobody respects your ability to make them pay deep.

Some people act like its Tavon. Its not, because none of the weapons on this team are doing much. And that includes veterans like Cook. He is (or was talked about all preseason to be) supposed to be the focal point of the offense and is putting up only 51 ypg. How about Givens etc as a guy who is supposed to be that deep threat? He has a whopping 17 receptions this year. This team is like watching a toddler trying to bang a square peg into a round hole for half the game until the Rams get far behind and then are forced to throw the ball and go to no huddle etc where they start being successful. The strengths of this team sure as hell does not lie in the running game, as most of the RBs on this team would be 2nd to 3rd stringers for almost anyone else in the NFL. That's just the truth when your rushing attacks success lies with a 5th round rookie because everyone else is average at best. I see it as an inability of JF/BS to switch roles just like the Steelers did where a traditional run first team saw you could use the pass to set up the run, and then went on to win 2 Super Bowls using this approach.

 

[jrry32]

He catches the ball and is bracketed by 2+ defenders every time. Its the job of the OC to find ways to get him in OPEN space, but when Bradford is putting out a pitiful 6.2 yards per pass play (which is almost the worst of starting QBs in the NFL) defenses just stay near the line of scrimmage. This teams inability to actually push the ball down the field is making open space impossible to find when nobody respects your ability to make them pay deep.

Some people act like its Tavon. Its not, because none of the weapons on this team are doing much. And that includes veterans like Cook. He is (or was talked about all preseason to be) supposed to be the focal point of the offense and is putting up only 51 ypg. How about Givens etc as a guy who is supposed to be that deep threat? He has a whopping 17 receptions this year. This team is like watching a toddler trying to bang a square peg into a round hole for half the game until the Rams get far behind and then are forced to throw the ball and go to no huddle etc where they start being successful. The strengths of this team sure as hell does not lie in the running game, as most of the RBs on this team would be 2nd to 3rd stringers for almost anyone else in the NFL. That's just the truth when your rushing attacks success lies with a 5th round rookie because everyone else is average at best. I see it as an inability of JF/BS to switch roles just like the Steelers did where a traditional run first team saw you could use the pass to set up the run, and then went on to win 2 Super Bowls using this approach.

Tavon has blame to own for dropping passes, Sam has blame to own for not finding him more when he's open and Schotty has blame to own for not utilizing him more creatively and in different roles.

But the kid is also a rookie having a lot thrown at him.

As far as the running game, Zac Stacy is playing at a high level. There's no reason to get away from him as long as he continues to do that.

 

[Rabid Ram]

Thor: Eh, did you watch the Pats Jets game? Pats receivers dropped a TON of passes in that game and they didn't get benched. Even Brady mentioned not being so hard on rookies, because they're, well, rookies.


And X, let me give you a number.

22

That's the ranking of Brian Schottenheimer's offenses during his career in the NFL vs the rest of the league. Career mediocrity would be putting it nicely. And the fact is.....Fisher isn't running the offense, Schotty is, and he hired him....

BS is a guy whose only success has been on a team which had a stacked OL and running game + a top 3 defense to bail him out there. They sure didn't win in NY with offense. I think any reasonable fan would question why he was hired in the first place. I've love to know the answer to that, because I'm seeing a ton of weapons not being used correctly (Cook -- beast....making no impact, Givens one of the best deep threats in the league and Sam has almost the lowest yards per pass in the NFL...etc).

I think JF is a good coach, but if this continues all season I will have my doubts about the future if BS still remains.

No need to be obstreperous old boy ,YES I know the Pats are rec. poor and Brady has no alternatives and FWIW everyone knows it, none of those guys who are dropping passes came with the hype that caused the Pats to move up to select them, you need to realize Tavon has to bring the game or sit, period ,Pettis ,Givens,Kendricks, Cook all want the ball too ,if Tavon wants it and you want him to get it, he has had chances and he's muffing them so turn your ire upon the real cause of his problems ,even when he's gotten the ball he's tried to fake the best out and it ain't ACC DB's he's facing.
It's not Shotty's fault he's been so indecisive once the ball's in his hands, I 4 one would LOVE to see them run stretch plays with the munchkin and MAKE him play "one cut and go" instead of his current tendency to try to fake the whole defense simultaneously the way he could in college.

He catches the ball and is bracketed by 2+ defenders every time. Its the job of the OC to find ways to get him in OPEN space, but when Bradford is putting out a pitiful 6.2 yards per pass play (which is almost the worst of starting QBs in the NFL) defenses just stay near the line of scrimmage. This teams inability to actually push the ball down the field is making open space impossible to find when nobody respects your ability to make them pay deep.

Some people act like its Tavon. Its not, because none of the weapons on this team are doing much. And that includes veterans like Cook. He is (or was talked about all preseason to be) supposed to be the focal point of the offense and is putting up only 51 ypg. How about Givens etc as a guy who is supposed to be that deep threat? He has a whopping 17 receptions this year. This team is like watching a toddler trying to bang a square peg into a round hole for half the game until the Rams get far behind and then are forced to throw the ball and go to no huddle etc where they start being successful. The strengths of this team sure as hell does not lie in the running game, as most of the RBs on this team would be 2nd to 3rd stringers for almost anyone else in the NFL. That's just the truth when your rushing attacks success lies with a 5th round rookie because everyone else is average at best. I see it as an inability of JF/BS to switch roles just like the Steelers did where a traditional run first team saw you could use the pass to set up the run, and then went on to win 2 Super Bowls using this approach.

So because other teams passed to set up the run and won superbowls we should just abandon what's worked the last 2 games and go back to what didn't work?

 

[WvuIN02]

Can we please stop with the dropped passes hyperbole in this thread? As someone else already pointed out if you look at the actual % of his passes dropped vs targeted, it's not even the worst on the team. Should he catch some he didn't? Sure and it will get better I'm sure (Dez Bryant led the league in drops his rookie year iirc). But the exaggeration going on in this thread with people in here act like hes freaking Ted Ginn 2.0 is downright silly.

It's frustrating that people are expecting so much from him as a rookie like he is supposed to carry this team when guys like Givens and Cook who are *supposed* to be the leaders aren't doing much. All I heard from the coaching staff in the offseason was how Givens was going to/should blow up this year. He hasn't. Same with Cook. Neither has he. If the offense regressed, then where does the blame lie?

I also get the impression that a bunch of Rams fans look at the draft pick and expect him to be Julio Jones or AJ Green. Folks he is 5'9'', he is not going to bail out QBs like those guys do going over 2 defenders and high pointing fades in the endzone for touchdowns. He is a complimentary piece to an offense, the same way Welker was vs guys like Gronk who were the guys who are supposed to get the TDs like that (ie Jared Cook). He can be a dynamic playmaker but it seems like people here expect him to work miracles vs defenses who constantly smother him. I really really really do not understand why they dont line him up in the backfield and get him open that way where he can sneak out of the backfield in the flat etc. The stuff about him being too small doesn't explain it either as I see Danny Woodhead do it very effectively for SD. I've watched the entirety of every Rams game this year and have only seen it a time or two. He also has incredible instincts as a RB and finding holes to run through and could break some (as you can tell on punt returns). Its frustrating to watch someone so dull call this offense and not find ways to creatively use him like I see other teams do with similar players around the league.

 

[WvuIN02]

Thor: Eh, did you watch the Pats Jets game? Pats receivers dropped a TON of passes in that game and they didn't get benched. Even Brady mentioned not being so hard on rookies, because they're, well, rookies.


And X, let me give you a number.

22

That's the ranking of Brian Schottenheimer's offenses during his career in the NFL vs the rest of the league. Career mediocrity would be putting it nicely. And the fact is.....Fisher isn't running the offense, Schotty is, and he hired him....

BS is a guy whose only success has been on a team which had a stacked OL and running game + a top 3 defense to bail him out there. They sure didn't win in NY with offense. I think any reasonable fan would question why he was hired in the first place. I've love to know the answer to that, because I'm seeing a ton of weapons not being used correctly (Cook -- beast....making no impact, Givens one of the best deep threats in the league and Sam has almost the lowest yards per pass in the NFL...etc).

I think JF is a good coach, but if this continues all season I will have my doubts about the future if BS still remains.

No need to be obstreperous old boy ,YES I know the Pats are rec. poor and Brady has no alternatives and FWIW everyone knows it, none of those guys who are dropping passes came with the hype that caused the Pats to move up to select them, you need to realize Tavon has to bring the game or sit, period ,Pettis ,Givens,Kendricks, Cook all want the ball too ,if Tavon wants it and you want him to get it, he has had chances and he's muffing them so turn your ire upon the real cause of his problems ,even when he's gotten the ball he's tried to fake the best out and it ain't ACC DB's he's facing.
It's not Shotty's fault he's been so indecisive once the ball's in his hands, I 4 one would LOVE to see them run stretch plays with the munchkin and MAKE him play "one cut and go" instead of his current tendency to try to fake the whole defense simultaneously the way he could in college.

He catches the ball and is bracketed by 2+ defenders every time. Its the job of the OC to find ways to get him in OPEN space, but when Bradford is putting out a pitiful 6.2 yards per pass play (which is almost the worst of starting QBs in the NFL) defenses just stay near the line of scrimmage. This teams inability to actually push the ball down the field is making open space impossible to find when nobody respects your ability to make them pay deep.

Some people act like its Tavon. Its not, because none of the weapons on this team are doing much. And that includes veterans like Cook. He is (or was talked about all preseason to be) supposed to be the focal point of the offense and is putting up only 51 ypg. How about Givens etc as a guy who is supposed to be that deep threat? He has a whopping 17 receptions this year. This team is like watching a toddler trying to bang a square peg into a round hole for half the game until the Rams get far behind and then are forced to throw the ball and go to no huddle etc where they start being successful. The strengths of this team sure as hell does not lie in the running game, as most of the RBs on this team would be 2nd to 3rd stringers for almost anyone else in the NFL. That's just the truth when your rushing attacks success lies with a 5th round rookie because everyone else is average at best. I see it as an inability of JF/BS to switch roles just like the Steelers did where a traditional run first team saw you could use the pass to set up the run, and then went on to win 2 Super Bowls using this approach.

So because other teams passed to set up the run and won superbowls we should just abandon what's worked the last 2 games and go back to what didn't work?

That's a sample size chosen vs terrible teams. You are talking about what worked vs two of the worst teams in the NFL.. I'm inclined to think by the evidence, that pretty much anything works vs the likes of Jacksonville as they have a very good chance to be winless. SB winning teams pretty much every year are able to smother the run and make you use the pass (Ravens 49ers Steelers etc).

Aside from that, you are also missing my point.

When the strength of your team is in its receivers and QB on offense, you mold your offense to fit those personnel. The Steelers for example forever were a grind it out run first team, and my point was they adapted to a great QB and receivers and used the pass to set up their running game because that's where they were best on offense. I see the same situation in St Louis right now. Maybe we disagree on what is the strength of this team is, but it was in the media from coaches fans etc that the Rams were supposed to have this dangerous passing attack this year with guys like Cook Givens Quick Austin etc. And if someone says that their top 1st round pick QB takes a backseat to a rushing attack led by some 5th round rookie...then I would call that draft pick a failure at this point in his career.

When I see this offense, I see no identity at all when it should have Bradfords fingerprints all over it. Again, I see a disconnect between philosophy and the personnel on this team. My apologies if Im not understanding you then please clarify your position for me.

 

[-X-]

Can we please stop with the dropped passes hyperbole in this thread? As someone else already pointed out if you look at the actual % of his passes dropped vs targeted, it's not even the worst on the team. Should he catch some he didn't? Sure and it will get better I'm sure (Dez Bryant led the league in drops his rookie year iirc). But the exaggeration going on in this thread with people in here act like hes freaking Ted Ginn 2.0 is downright silly.

It's frustrating that people are expecting so much from him as a rookie like he is supposed to carry this team when guys like Givens and Cook who are *supposed* to be the leaders aren't doing much. All I heard from the coaching staff in the offseason was how Givens was going to/should blow up this year. He hasn't. Same with Cook. Neither has he. If the offense regressed, then where does the blame lie?

I also get the impression that a bunch of Rams fans look at the draft pick and expect him to be Julio Jones or AJ Green. Folks he is 5'9'', he is not going to bail out QBs like those guys do going over 2 defenders and high pointing fades in the endzone for touchdowns. He is a complimentary piece to an offense, the same way Welker was vs guys like Gronk who were the guys who are supposed to get the TDs like that (ie Jared Cook). He can be a dynamic playmaker but it seems like people here expect him to work miracles vs defenses who constantly smother him. I really really really do not understand why they dont line him up in the backfield and get him open that way where he can sneak out of the backfield in the flat etc. The stuff about him being too small doesn't explain it either as I see Danny Woodhead do it very effectively for SD. I've watched the entirety of every Rams game this year and have only seen it a time or two. He also has incredible instincts as a RB and finding holes to run through and could break some (as you can tell on punt returns). Its frustrating to watch someone so dull call this offense and not find ways to creatively use him like I see other teams do with similar players around the league.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBbUCwXSLzc[/youtube]

 

[WvuIN02]

I apologize if I come across as hostile, definitely not intentional towards any posters. I do think the drops issue is way overblown though when he has such a high amount of targets.

I'm just very frustrated with this team on offense. It's like watching a sports car run at 55 with grandma behind the wheel.

 

[-X-]

I apologize if I come across as hostile, definitely not intentional towards any posters. I do think the drops issue is way overblown though when he has such a high amount of targets.

I'm just very frustrated with this team on offense. It's like watching a sports car run at 55 with grandma behind the wheel.

I'm just playin' with ya.

I understand your frustration, and believe me, lots of people share it. There were a lot of expectations out of the offense before the season began, particularly when they went up and got Tavon. But I think the truth of the matter is, there's going to be a steep learning curve for him and the rest of the new additions on offense for at least half the season. The part that I believe is sorta unrealistic is when people expect Tavon to do what he did in college ... in the pros ... right off the bat. When our running game was shown to be non-existent, that kinda shut the door on doing much with the passing game. Defenses didn't respect the run game initially, so they could load up on the pass and smother not only Tavon, but basically everyone. Just put two people deep and smother the underneath/intermediate stuff. Now that the run game has opened up, play-action is working, the deep ball is suddenly there, and defenses can't really anticipate as well.

I think after a couple more games, we'll see Tavon more involved.

 

[jrry32]

Can we please stop with the dropped passes hyperbole in this thread? As someone else already pointed out if you look at the actual % of his passes dropped vs targeted, it's not even the worst on the team. Should he catch some he didn't? Sure and it will get better I'm sure (Dez Bryant led the league in drops his rookie year iirc). But the exaggeration going on in this thread with people in here act like hes freaking Ted Ginn 2.0 is downright silly.

No. Because it's not a hyperbole. When you lead the league with 7 dropped passes in 6 games, that's an issue. I'm sorry if you don't want to hear it but it's an issue. I call them how I see them and I was Tavon's biggest supporter before the draft.

Tavon is not perfect.

I also get the impression that a bunch of Rams fans look at the draft pick and expect him to be Julio Jones or AJ Green. Folks he is 5'9'', he is not going to bail out QBs like those guys do going over 2 defenders and high pointing fades in the endzone for touchdowns. He is a complimentary piece to an offense, the same way Welker was vs guys like Gronk who were the guys who are supposed to get the TDs like that (ie Jared Cook). He can be a dynamic playmaker but it seems like people here expect him to work miracles vs defenses who constantly smother him. I really really really do not understand why they dont line him up in the backfield and get him open that way where he can sneak out of the backfield in the flat etc. The stuff about him being too small doesn't explain it either as I see Danny Woodhead do it very effectively for SD. I've watched the entirety of every Rams game this year and have only seen it a time or two. He also has incredible instincts as a RB and finding holes to run through and could break some (as you can tell on punt returns). Its frustrating to watch someone so dull call this offense and not find ways to creatively use him like I see other teams do with similar players around the league.

Welker isn't a complimentary piece and neither will Tavon be when he and the offense get up to speed.

He doesn't need to bail out the QB so long as he gets open and catches passes.

The latter has been an issue. The former hasn't.

My only reasoning as to why he hasn't spent more time in the back-field is that they don't want to overwhelm him with another position to learn...but it is disappointing.

 

[kurtfaulk]

I apologize if I come across as hostile, definitely not intentional towards any posters. I do think the drops issue is way overblown though when he has such a high amount of targets.

I'm just very frustrated with this team on offense. It's like watching a sports car run at 55 with grandma behind the wheel.

i gotta tell ya, i wasn't frustrated at all with the offense against the texans. it looked like a well oiled machine.

sure it wasn't the up tempo, no huddle offense we all desired but for whatever reasons fisher won't allow it to operate. we got that message loud and clear in the cowboys game. and once the opposition worked out drich couldn't find a hole in a brothel they pinned their ears back and smacked sam around enough to make him look like 2011 sam.

so the rams went back to the ground pound game with a rb that could make some yards and find whatever holes the oline gave him. the change has opened up the deep ball for givens even though they failed to connect but that will come with time.

now all they have to do is work out how to work in tavon into the mix. i'm sure we'll be seeing more of him as the weeks pass.

.

 

[WvuIN02]

Let's put this "drops" issue to bed once and for all.

Statistically drops cannot even be objectively accounted for (it's a subjective statistic by its nature) by the best source available for statistics in Football Outsiders. Football Outsiders has this to say: "dropped passes are not specified in publicly available play-by-play, and unfortunately we cannot yet correct for this." On a ball that is badly thrown that hits the fingers of a receiver, is it a drop or not? You could say yes and someone else can say no, which is why it's a silly statistic in the first place. You cannot objectively say it is or is not, all you can do is look at the percentage of caught balls thrown a receivers way. It also doesn't account for a ball that could have been a drop but was made as a great catch as that would swing the statistic the other direction.

Now, going by *these* objective statistics which FBO keeps.....let's look around the league at catch percentage for some receivers.

Larry Fitzgerald has caught 58% of passes targeted to him.... Tavon Austin has caught 59%. Torrey Smith 53%, Josh Gordon 58%, Hakeem Nicks 56%, Dez Bryant 63%....etc etc etc. I could rattle off a dozen other high profile names on the same list. No, Tavon is not Wes Welker with his catch percentage (who leads the league with an insane 87%), but he also doesn't have Peyton Manning throwing him the ball either in an offense which will probably break a ton of records as well. Compared to other receivers around the league, Tavon is doing just fine considering he is a rookie.

Should he have caught some he dropped? Sure. But again, I've also seen him catch some balls that most people would have expected to be incomplete....which are not accounted for either. As far as the perfect thing...nobody is saying he is perfect, that's just a strawman. What he is, is a rookie at a position where rookies rarely if ever make waves during their first season. Randy Moss clones don't come along very often who rip apart NFL secondaries as a rookie, and I would go so far as to say WR is one of if not the hardest position to go into the NFL tearing it up as a rookie.

I still say the elephant in the room is the Rams OC. I'd love an answer to why this guy was hired. An OC whose offenses have average in the lower third to lower half for his career in the NFL for what matters....points. Ask yourself honestly, is any DC in the NFL afraid of going head to head vs Brian Schottenheimer? I highly doubt it....but nepotism is alive and well in the NFL.

 

[jrry32]

Let's put this "drops" issue to bed once and for all.

The only way it's being put to bed is you admitting it's an issue and accepting that. You're in denial right now. Tavon is better than this. He will overcome it but he's dropping a lot of passes. He's a rookie, it happens.

Statistically drops cannot even be objectively accounted for (it's a subjective statistic by its nature) by the best source available for statistics in Football Outsiders. Football Outsiders has this to say: "dropped passes are not specified in publicly available play-by-play, and unfortunately we cannot yet correct for this." On a ball that is badly thrown that hits the fingers of a receiver, is it a drop or not? You could say yes and someone else can say no, which is why it's a silly statistic in the first place. You cannot objectively say it is or is not, all you can do is look at the percentage of caught balls thrown a receivers way. It also doesn't account for a ball that could have been a drop but was made as a great catch as that would swing the statistic the other direction.

Now, going by *these* objective statistics which FBO keeps.....let's look around the league at catch percentage for some receivers.

Larry Fitzgerald has caught 58% of passes targeted to him.... Tavon Austin has caught 59%. Torrey Smith 53%, Josh Gordon 58%, Hakeem Nicks 56%, Dez Bryant 63%....etc etc etc. I could rattle off a dozen other high profile names on the same list. No, Tavon is not Wes Welker with his catch percentage (who leads the league with an insane 87%), but he also doesn't have Peyton Manning throwing him the ball either in an offense which will probably break a ton of records as well. Compared to other receivers around the league, Tavon is doing just fine considering he is a rookie.

He's not doing just fine. He's averaging 6 yards per catch. A 59% catch rate when the majority of your targets come within 5 yards of the LOS is pitiful. Austin is better than that. He'd tell you that himself.

I still say the elephant in the room is the Rams OC. I'd love an answer to why this guy was hired. An OC whose offenses have average in the lower third to lower half for his career in the NFL for what matters....points. Ask yourself honestly, is any DC in the NFL afraid of going head to head vs Brian Schottenheimer? I highly doubt it....but nepotism is alive and well in the NFL.

The room is filled with elephants. And some of those elephants are named Sam, Tavon and Brian.

I'm the last person that wants to defend Schottenheimer but the bold simply isn't true. Schottenheimer's career rankings as an OC:
2006 - 18th
2007 - 25th
2008 - 9th(were top 5 before Favre's bicep injury)
2009 - 17th
2010 - 13th
2011 - 13th
2012 - 25th

Starting QBs:
2006 - Pennington
2007 - Pennington/K. Clemens
2008 - Favre
2009 - Sanchez
2010 - Sanchez
2011 - Sanchez
2012 - Bradford

I'd say his offense ranked where they should have with Favre and ranked far above where they should have with Sanchez. Just saying...if you don't like Schottenheimer, there are much more effective arguments to make. Your premises are faulty which undermines your conclusion.

 

[-X-]

Let's put this "drops" issue to bed once and for all.

Statistically drops cannot even be objectively accounted for (it's a subjective statistic by its nature) by the best source available for statistics in Football Outsiders. Football Outsiders has this to say: "dropped passes are not specified in publicly available play-by-play, and unfortunately we cannot yet correct for this." On a ball that is badly thrown that hits the fingers of a receiver, is it a drop or not? You could say yes and someone else can say no, which is why it's a silly statistic in the first place. You cannot objectively say it is or is not, all you can do is look at the percentage of caught balls thrown a receivers way. It also doesn't account for a ball that could have been a drop but was made as a great catch as that would swing the statistic the other direction.

Actually Pro Football Focus is a better source for that, and they do watch every snap of every game for every position on the team. There's an enormous staff of people that harvest those stats, and Austin is tied for second with 5 drops on 38 targets (6 tied for first place with 6 drops). It's not subjective, because they do account for balls that are uncatchable. And again, this isn't really an indictment of Tavon. Rookies tend to have the dropsies, and the 2011 Rams can attest to that in spades.

He'll get better. He'll learn. He'll produce.

IMO, it's kind of a cop-out to blame a player's woes on the OC. If that were the case, then it's impossible to explain how Givens set a rookie record for consecutive 50+ yard reception games in his rookie year, and now (under the same OC), he's being underutilized. These things don't happen in a vacuum. The running game without Jackson sputtered out of the gates and defenses were able to take away the deep ball, and the O-line was shaky to start the season. Schottenheimer didn't make Givens unlearn how to get deep or make the O-line out of sync. Defenses had a hand in that.

 

[The Rammer]

When the Great Isaac Bruce was asked about Brian Quick and how long it takes for almost all WR's to get going in the NFL he said it takes until the start of year 2 or 3 to get acclimated to have a full impact and learn the speed and the play book. He also said it took him until his 2nd year to get going .

1994 rookie year. Games Started 0 Games 12 Rec 21 Yds 272 TD 3
1995 Games started 16 Games 16 Rec 119 Yds 1781 13 TD
1996 Games Started 16 Games 16 Rec 84 Yds 1338 7 TD

I'm not to Worried about Tavon Austin I'm more worried about Brian S. and his idiotic play calling. Down by 2-3 scores : Brian S. quote "lets run DR up the middle for a three and out a few times" -_- ............Fucking Inbred Jed

 

[jrry32]

Let's put this "drops" issue to bed once and for all.

Statistically drops cannot even be objectively accounted for (it's a subjective statistic by its nature) by the best source available for statistics in Football Outsiders. Football Outsiders has this to say: "dropped passes are not specified in publicly available play-by-play, and unfortunately we cannot yet correct for this." On a ball that is badly thrown that hits the fingers of a receiver, is it a drop or not? You could say yes and someone else can say no, which is why it's a silly statistic in the first place. You cannot objectively say it is or is not, all you can do is look at the percentage of caught balls thrown a receivers way. It also doesn't account for a ball that could have been a drop but was made as a great catch as that would swing the statistic the other direction.

Actually Pro Football Focus is a better source for that, and they do watch every snap of every game for every position on the team. There's an enormous staff of people that harvest those stats, and Austin is tied for second with 5 drops on 38 targets (6 tied for first place with 6 drops). It's not subjective, because they do account for balls that are uncatchable. And again, this isn't really an indictment of Tavon. Rookies tend to have the dropsies, and the 2011 Rams can attest to that in spades.

He'll get better. He'll learn. He'll produce.

IMO, it's kind of a cop-out to blame a player's woes on the OC. If that were the case, then it's impossible to explain how Givens set a rookie record for consecutive 50+ yard reception games in his rookie year, and now (under the same OC), he's being underutilized. These things don't happen in a vacuum. The running game without Jackson sputtered out of the gates and defenses were able to take away the deep ball, and the O-line was shaky to start the season. Schottenheimer didn't make Givens unlearn how to get deep or make the O-line out of sync. Defenses had a hand in that.

Eh...a lot of blame falls on Givens. He's blown opportunities the last two weeks for big catches down the field. Yea, the ball against Jax was under-thrown but Givens could have made that catch if he had worked back to the ball instead of waiting for it to come to him. Something I've seen numerous other players do to help their QB out.

Right now, Givens is the one "underutilizing" himself. Well...at least...he has to take a chunk of blame in it. :ww:

 

[WvuIN02]

I'm not blaming any players woes on Brian Schottenheimer. That's just a trickle down effect of the major problem which is in general his offenses do not produce.

I mean name anything that Schottenheimer has done in his entire career as an OC that would inspire any confidence? In NY, his team was completely carried by the defense and special teams. Even with that dominant of a defense getting the ball back constantly his teams still could not put points on the board which cost them the chance at a SB.

His offenses have averaged around 22nd~ in the NFL for his entire career. It was that way before St Louis, and is about that right now in St Louis. He has never shown he can put a dangerous offense on the field. Ever. Again, it looks like he was hired because of who his daddy was. I think its a shame St Louis couldn't get a guy like Norv Turner whose offenses do very well with a tight end who can do damage. Hell what he is doing with Cleveland's castoffs and 3rd string QB should practically secure him OC of the year.

Look at what Chip Kelly's offense is doing right now, a guy who just entered the NFL. I'd love to see a guy like him who knows how to take advantage of the weapons in St Louis.

From NFL.com

Consider that the Eagles are the first team since the 1970 NFL-AFL merger to collect 1,600 net passing yards and 1,050 rushing yards over the first six games of a season.

The Rams offense is 30th right now and is neck and neck with TB to be the only team whose offense stinks worse than Jacksonville, that is just putrid for the talent on this team and inexcusable. I feel bad for Sam, and ultimately this falls on Fisher's head, hes the guy who decided for whatever reason the Rams needed a guy at OC whose resume stunk.

Why was he hired? Anyone have a reasonably good answer?

 

[jrry32]

I'm not blaming any players woes on Brian Schottenheimer. That's just a trickle down effect of the major problem which is in general his offenses do not produce.

I mean name anything that Schottenheimer has done in his entire career as an OC that would inspire any confidence? In NY, his team was completely carried by the defense and special teams. Even with that dominant of a defense getting the ball back constantly his teams still could not put points on the board which cost them the chance at a SB.

Impressive things he's done?
-Mark Sanchez has a 94.3 career playoff QB Rating
-Mark Sanchez accounted for 32 TDs in 2011
-The Jets averaged 23 PPG in 2010 and 24 PPG in 2011 with Mark Sanchez at QB
-The Jets were averaging 29.4 PPG in 2008 before Favre tore his bicep in Week 13
-Schottenheimer's offenses with Favre and Sanchez ranked 9th, 17th, 13th and 13th in the NFL in PPG...the Jets went 4-2 in the playoffs during that period of time
-Mark Sanchez posted a QB Rating of 100+ in 3 of his 6 career playoff games

As much as you try to sell Schottenheimer short, your agenda and motive are clear here.

Your premises are faulty again.

The guy managed to make things work well with Mark Sanchez...that's saying a lot. I might not be his biggest fan but you're using him as an excuse.

His offenses have averaged around 22nd~ in the NFL for his entire career. It was that way before St Louis, and is about that right now in St Louis. He has never shown he can put a dangerous offense on the field. Ever. Again, it looks like he was hired because of who his daddy was. I think its a shame St Louis couldn't get a guy like Norv Turner whose offenses do very well with a tight end who can do damage. Hell what he is doing with Cleveland's castoffs and 3rd string QB should practically secure him OC of the year.

Norv is a great mind. But unluckily for us, SD fired him a year too late.

As far as Schottenheimer's offenses...you're making a dishonest argument and it's quite transparent.

Look at what Chip Kelly's offense is doing right now, a guy who just entered the NFL. I'd love to see a guy like him who knows how to take advantage of the weapons in St Louis.

From NFL.com

Consider that the Eagles are the first team since the 1970 NFL-AFL merger to collect 1,600 net passing yards and 1,050 rushing yards over the first six games of a season.

The Rams offense is 30th right now and is neck and neck with TB to be the only team whose offense stinks worse than Jacksonville, that is just putrid for the talent on this team and inexcusable. I feel bad for Sam, and ultimately this falls on Fisher's head, hes the guy who decided for whatever reason the Rams needed a guy at OC whose resume stunk.

Why was he hired? Anyone have a reasonably good answer?

Well, the Rams are currently averaging 23.5 PPG. We've scored 34 and 38 since our offensive identity changed.

You'll have to excuse me if I don't give a rat's behind about yardage. I care about points. We had 216 yards to Houston's 420 yards last Sunday. Yet we scored 38 and they scored 13.

Here is something you might want to stop and consider...we're one of the NFL's best teams at turning red-zone opportunities into TDs.

So like Schottenheimer or not...he's doing somethings right here.

We might rank 30th in YPG but we rank 15th in PPG...and that's what matters.

You feel bad for Sam? He has 13 TDs to 3 Ints right now. I don't think Sam is too upset either.

Sure...things could be better. I'd love to have a Asshole Face or Mike McCarthy but that ain't happening. Schotty is fairly average but we could certainly do worse and I respect the fact that the guy isn't afraid to change when things aren't working. We made a change and it's paying off. And I also respect the fact that he made a change last year when we sucked in the red-zone early on and it has paid off major dividends over the last 1.5 years. Our red-zone offense has gone from putrid(FOR YEARS) to great.

It's nice to see an OC that will adapt some. There are a lot of things he could do better but he's not the bum you make him out to be. Not even close.

As far as Chip Kelly is concerned, he's a Head Coach. We do have a Head Coach already. And we're 6 games into his tenure. Defenses adapt. We'll see if Kelly's system stands the test of time.

 

[WvuIN02]

Mark Sanchez is statistically the worst 4 year starter in the history of the NFL. You have your opinion and I have mine.....let's just agree to disagree and just move on.

We will see how the offense does facing Seattle as the past two games were versus very very bad teams. Ther 49ers were a measuring stick in the division, here's another one.

 

[jrry32]

Mark Sanchez is statistically the worst 4 year starter in the history of the NFL. You have your opinion and I have mine.....let's just agree to disagree and just move on.

We will see how the offense does facing Seattle as the past two games were versus very very bad teams. Ther 49ers were a measuring stick in the division, here's another one.

Ain't that the point? Sanchez looked passable under Schotty and actually looked good in the playoffs. That seems like a testament to Schotty not being a horrible OC.

Sanchez in 2011(Schotty's final year in NYJ):
32 TDs
28 Ints/Fumbles
78.2 QB Rating
23.6 PPG Scored

Sanchez in 2012(year after Schotty):
13 TDs
32 Ints/Fumbles
66.9 QB Rating
17.6 PPG Scored

Does that not speak volumes? You frame things in a specific way to give the guy no credit and yet look at the difference between Sanchez in his offense and Sanchez after he left.

As far as the past two games being against very very bad teams...the Texans are not a very very bad team. They may not be playing that well right now but they are a talented team. And if you want to talk Seattle...that "very very bad team" took the Seahawks to Overtime and made Russell Wilson look like a bum through the air.