Succinct argument for Snead over Fisher

[ArkyRamsFan]

I can't only partially agree with that, at least not with his first OC hire after joining the Rams - Schotty over Hue Jackson. Say what you will about Jackon as head coach in Cleveland, but he was very good in his time as OC in Cincinnati, and better than Schotty ever was or ever will be. So that's strike 1 against Fisher. I think after Schotty left is when the truth of your theory really played out, because he couldn't seem to get anyone decent to interview for the job, in part because they knew he wanted to run a stone age offense and wouldn't give the OC full control.

thirteen28,
Good points overall but is it documented that Fish chose Schotty and did not offer job to Jackson or what?
I don't know how it all played out but Jax could have just decided to stay in Cinci for all we know.
I do agree that Hue Jackson would have made a much better OC than Schotty.....

~ArkyRamsFan~

 

[Mackeyser]

Who took this picture of jeff fisher with the police officer?

Yeah. Most drunk mugshots don’t look like selfies

 

[1maGoh]

Interesting and revealing thread. I, however, have a bit of a different take fwiw. Many Rams fans bemoan the low quality OC hires by Fish but I believe that he didn't have much choice in the matter because any OC worth his salt would NEVER work for an inept idiot like the Fisher King.

Think about it for a minute. Your name is Kyle Shanahan, or Sean McVay, are you going to work for a dude that is stuck in the Stone Age (to quote my very Millennial kids) or a HC like Jay Gruden who knows and understands the modern NFL offense?
Which job would be the most helpful to your career?
Guys, it is my contention that Jeff Fisher hired incompetent fools like himself because that was the only ones he could get.
His "reputation" definitely preceded him and made him a pariah to any up and coming offensive assistant.

Just my 0.02

~ArkyRamsFan~

Interesting that the deeper you go, the more you have to blame Fisher.

He made good QBs bad. Why?
He hired bad OCs. Why?
Good OCs refuse to work with him specifically. Why?
His reputation on offense is terrible. Why?
He runs a crappy offense. Why?
Start back at the top.

Actually, can anybody add the next layer of "It's still Jeff Fisher's fault"?

 

[majrleaged]

Fish's name is mud right now, and it's deserved. But once again his big mistakes were his coordinator hires. If you hire bad coordinators or dudes in over their heads, even a guy whose philosophy doesn't match your locker room, your units will get eaten alive at this level.

Also, people conveniently overlook the very shrewd additions made last offseason to the offense. Without those additions this might well have been another .500ish team. McVay would not have looked like a genius relying on guys like Kenny Britt, Tavon Austin, Brian Quick, et al. Not to mention the addition of a LT who can hold things down.

Except fish liked those guys. He believed they were good enough. He is the one who says pay Tevon and they try to do it. He's the guy that says our center is good, sign him. Sneads job is to try to give the coach what he wants. Remember when he wift on Wagner in the draft? He was supposed to get him for fisher. Fisher had the guys he wanted. He couldn't sign a real oc cause they didn't want to run what he dictated.

 

[DaveFan'51]

Our coordinator's under Fisher were horrendous, we covered that a billion times over. It was Fisher's responsibility to hire those coaches.

I have to disagree, sort of, His hiring of Offensive Coordinators Sucked Yes! But Williams as DC didn't suck, and 'Bones' as ST Coordinator certainly didn't!

 

[Tailback]

Interesting and revealing thread. I, however, have a bit of a different take fwiw. Many Rams fans bemoan the low quality OC hires by Fish but I believe that he didn't have much choice in the matter because any OC worth his salt would NEVER work for an inept idiot like the Fisher King.

Think about it for a minute. Your name is Kyle Shanahan, or Sean McVay, are you going to work for a dude that is stuck in the Stone Age (to quote my very Millennial kids) or a HC like Jay Gruden who knows and understands the modern NFL offense?
Which job would be the most helpful to your career?
Guys, it is my contention that Jeff Fisher hired incompetent fools like himself because that was the only ones he could get.
His "reputation" definitely preceded him and made him a pariah to any up and coming offensive assistant.

Just my 0.02

~ArkyRamsFan~

Took the words right out of my mouth. Great minds think alike obviously!

 

[So Ram]

I really believe David Carr was actually not as bad as a lot of people think. When you get sacked 70 times a year, it’s hard to feel comfortable in the pocket.

That goes back to when The Rams never put a fucking OFFENSIVE LINE together for how many years.

You could add Sam Bradford to that list as well !!

It actually goes back to when Mad Mike fucked Kurt Warner up.

Marc Bulger was another guy that got SACKED at a record pace.

Withworth & Sullivan plus The Kromers have really helped out on The Rams side of it for Jared Goff this past season.

 

[nighttrain]

Withworth & Sullivan plus The Kromers have really helped out on The Rams side of it for Jared Goff this past season.

 

[Petrowsky]

That goes back to when The Rams never put a freaking OFFENSIVE LINE together for how many years.

You could add Sam Bradford to that list as well !!

It actually goes back to when Mad Mike freaked Kurt Warner up.

Marc Bulger was another guy that got SACKED at a record pace.

Withworth & Sullivan plus The Kromers have really helped out on The Rams side of it for Jared Goff this past season.

It’s amazing to me that some coaches could be so oblivious to the importance of a good offensive line. I really liked Bulger but he was flat out assaulted for a large part of his Rams career.

The two seasons Carr got sacked less than 50 times, he had decent seasons. The two 70 sack seasons, awful seasons.

 

[thirteen28]

thirteen28,
Good points overall but is it documented that Fish chose Schotty and did not offer job to Jackson or what?
I don't know how it all played out but Jax could have just decided to stay in Cinci for all we know.
I do agree that Hue Jackson would have made a much better OC than Schotty.....

~ArkyRamsFan~

It was down to Schotty or Hue, and Fish chose Schotty. Hue went to the Bengals after that.

Fish sowed the seeds of his failure with the Rams right then and there as far as I am concerned.

 

[snackdaddy]

EVERYONE ticked on Jared Goff as a rookie (!), even though it was reported way back during minicamps that he had a long way to go. Everyone continued to tick on him even with Sean McVay on board, and already proclaimed him a bust.

I know the old saying its not so much about X's and O's as it is Jim's and Joe's. But this is a perfect example of how coaching is important. A coach not only needs to teach young players, he also needs to know what methods work for each individual.

Take golf for example. I see instructional videos or articles and many times I don't even know what they're trying to tell me. It doesn't sink in. I ask "What does that even mean?" Once in a while a guy explains in a way where a light goes on. All of sudden I'm figuring things out with that part of the game.

Whatever McVay did with Goff I would say the light went on. And now Goff is on his way to being a top tier quarterback and figuring out what it takes to be an upper tier quarterback.

 

[Angry Ram]

I know the old saying its not so much about X's and O's as it is Jim's and Joe's. But this is a perfect example of how coaching is important. A coach not only needs to teach young players, he also needs to know what methods work for each individual.

Take golf for example. I see instructional videos or articles and many times I don't even know what they're trying to tell me. It doesn't sink in. I ask "What does that even mean?" Once in a while a guy explains in a way where a light goes on. All of sudden I'm figuring things out with that part of the game.

Whatever McVay did with Goff I would say the light went on. And now Goff is on his way to being a top tier quarterback and figuring out what it takes to be an upper tier quarterback.

Well I get that, but that wasn't my point.

You could've had Dick Vermeil come back for a 3rd time and the media STILL wouldn't have gave Jared a chance. His career was basically written off after 7 games, which was asinine.

Where in reality he just needed time.

PFT implying the Rams suddenly had these QB riches is just dumb, because it wasn't like other teams were calling the trades clamoring for a Case Keenum trade or not fighting over each other for Nick Foles after he was cut. From the Rams or the Chiefs.

Using their coincidental success (at once) to slam on the Rams pisses me off, because none of them gave Nick Foles and the Eagles a chance, and were clamoring for Teddy Bridgewater once he was clear.

 

[DR RAM]

I have to disagree, sort of, His hiring of Offensive Coordinators Sucked Yes! But Williams as DC didn't suck, and 'Bones' as ST Coordinator certainly didn't!

Sure. I should have said OC's.

 

[Ramlock]

I think after Schotty left is when the truth of your theory really played out, because he couldn't seem to get anyone decent to interview for the job, in part because they knew he wanted to run a stone age offense and wouldn't give the OC full control.

How many OC's wanted to jump on a team rumored to be relocating?

That's as good a theory as any.

No relocating team had a winning record; only the LA Raiders in a strike year made the playoffs.

 

[tomas]

The success of some guys in 2017 is a damming indictment of Fisher and the lousy coordinator hires he made on offense.

But it goes to personnel too. One of the thoughts has recurred to me in this postseason - especially after a couple of spectacular catches Sunday - was Fisher's absolutely boneheaded pick of Brian Quick over Alshon Jeffrey. The latter just earned a longer term deal and played great on Sunday in the biggest stage in football. The former went to a team that had its WR corps decimated in the offseason and still could barely get on the field. What did he have this year, something like 5 catches?

Fisher drafting principals = raw-athletic ability (Brian Quick-Greg Robinson)over he's not flashy or sexy but solid four year college player (cooper kupp)

 

[thirteen28]

Fisher drafting principals = raw-athletic ability (Brian Quick-Greg Robinson)over he's not flashy or sexy but solid four year college player (cooper kupp)

Hammer, nail, head.

That's EXACTLY Fisher's drafting philosophy. You can get away with it easier on defense since it's more instinctive, and plus the Rams had good coaching on that side of the ball. But it's harder to do on offense even when you have very good coaches on that side of the ball ... which the Rams didn't under Fisher.

 

[jrry32]

Interesting and revealing thread. I, however, have a bit of a different take fwiw. Many Rams fans bemoan the low quality OC hires by Fish but I believe that he didn't have much choice in the matter because any OC worth his salt would NEVER work for an inept idiot like the Fisher King.

Think about it for a minute. Your name is Kyle Shanahan, or Sean McVay, are you going to work for a dude that is stuck in the Stone Age (to quote my very Millennial kids) or a HC like Jay Gruden who knows and understands the modern NFL offense?
Which job would be the most helpful to your career?
Guys, it is my contention that Jeff Fisher hired incompetent fools like himself because that was the only ones he could get.
His "reputation" definitely preceded him and made him a pariah to any up and coming offensive assistant.

Just my 0.02

~ArkyRamsFan~

Hue Jackson and John DeFilippo were both willing to interview with the Rams. Fisher passed them both over. Now, maybe both said no when Fisher told them that he wasn't giving up the keys to the offense, but that would just be another indictment of Fisher.

Regardless, it makes me feel bad for Steve McNair and Vince Young.