Still Not Happy with the Cheap Groy Offer

[OldSchool]

Well, "holes" might be a strong word, OldSchool. Sorta.

But, how about "need to upgrade if we're serious about being considered a playoff contender"?

In THAT context, we have many, many "holes", imo.

Let's see...

WR
C
TE
DE/Edge
LB (if Barron's not the answer)
CB (Webster is no lock to start)
CB (if Tru traded)
Nickel CB (Joyner a UFA next year)
FS
Backup RB is kinda iffy, tbh. Unless you're convinced otherwise. I'm not.

That's 8-10 positions, man. After the already added FA's, mind you. Ranging from screaming need to highly desirable.

Counting the FA's that have already been acquired, I could see as many as 10-12 new starters at respective positions vs the '16 starters at those same respective positions.

That's 6 on O, and 5-6 on D. Our opening day team will be almost unrecognizable vs last year.

Sooooo...

Let's don't wear blinders when assessing our needs if we want to be considered playoff worthy.

The good news is that those days of 4-12 or 7-9 BS are OVER. Lol.

So in other words a lot of projection of your opinions of players and ignoring of what the coach and GM have done. You've listed backups in a few positions as a hole. You're also trying turn a 4-12 team learning a new offense and defense into a playoff team? Good luck with that.

If I were to list our teams needs/holes there's just one and that's center but we have a vet in town for a visit right now. We aren't certain what will be done at safety. We have people on the roster we have people that we are speculating that could start at the two spots but we are uncertain. Out of everything listed the FS might be the only hole on the roster.

We have two starting WR in Austin and Woods and have a lot of untested depth behind them. We have an untested starter at TE and we have a returning FB/TE blocker in Harkey but we need another body. Again we have a starting DLine and LBs. We also have 4 lb backups and 3 backup DLine.

Wade wanted Kayvon and Tru is signed for the year with Gaines and possibly Joyner backing them up. If that's good enough for Wade I'm not calling that a hole.

Really what I see here is people feeling we might need to upgrade spots and calling them holes. IMO we're actually in a good spot. We have 8 picks and very few holes. We're in a damned nice position to take the best player that falls to us in one of a few positions and luckily it's a good draft in those positions. You've likely read my mocks so you know my opinion on the picks.

CB and FS are very deep this year we could end up spending two or three picks there. A center and NT for two more. A WR and TE for two more. Add in an edge or ILB and we've spent our 8 picks to upgrade the roster.

 

[dolphinlover123]

I think we are missing a center and a tall receiver. How does Easley fit? Is he a NT or DE? Is Brockers the only guy currently that could go in the NT position?

 

[OldSchool]

I think we are missing a center and a tall receiver. How does Easley fit? Is he a NT or DE? Is Brockers the only guy currently that could go in the NT position?

We really don't know about the NT position as I don't think Wade has ever addressed it specifically. Brockers certainly can be the started based on Wades past starters. Easley could as well and they both could start at DE.

 

[Riverumbbq]

How does Easley fit? Is he a NT or DE? Is Brockers the only guy currently that could go in the NT position?

I'm seeing Easley as our starting 3-4 LDE. Brockers could act as a rotational LDE & a starting NT. RDE is Donald & I currently have Trinca-Pasat as his rotation/reserve. Donald, Easley & Trinca-Pasat are short for traditional 3-4 DE's, but they are all quick, penetrative players that can shed blocks to get after whoever they are pursuing, just don't look for a lot of passes to be batted down by them. Would love to capture Kpassagnon with our 3'rd round pick to rotate with Easley. We may find a rotational NT later in the draft or as a CAP casualty sometime following the draft. I'd like to see 6 defensive linemen, each starter with a reserve or rotational player behind them. Same at LB, hoping to see 8 guys either starting or in reserve. jmo.

 

[VegasRam]

"the greatest thing since fried baloney"

:rolllaugh::rolllaugh:

 

[Rams43]

So in other words a lot of projection of your opinions of players and ignoring of what the coach and GM have done. You've listed backups in a few positions as a hole. You're also trying turn a 4-12 team learning a new offense and defense into a playoff team? Good luck with that.

If I were to list our teams needs/holes there's just one and that's center but we have a vet in town for a visit right now. We aren't certain what will be done at safety. We have people on the roster we have people that we are speculating that could start at the two spots but we are uncertain. Out of everything listed the FS might be the only hole on the roster.

We have two starting WR in Austin and Woods and have a lot of untested depth behind them. We have an untested starter at TE and we have a returning FB/TE blocker in Harkey but we need another body. Again we have a starting DLine and LBs. We also have 4 lb backups and 3 backup DLine.

Wade wanted Kayvon and Tru is signed for the year with Gaines and possibly Joyner backing them up. If that's good enough for Wade I'm not calling that a hole.

Really what I see here is people feeling we might need to upgrade spots and calling them holes. IMO we're actually in a good spot. We have 8 picks and very few holes. We're in a damned nice position to take the best player that falls to us in one of a few positions and luckily it's a good draft in those positions. You've likely read my mocks so you know my opinion on the picks.

CB and FS are very deep this year we could end up spending two or three picks there. A center and NT for two more. A WR and TE for two more. Add in an edge or ILB and we've spent our 8 picks to upgrade the roster.

We just see this differently, OldSchool. Which is perfectly fine, btw. Makes for interesting discussions.

Where to start?

1) This shoulda been at least an 8-8 team but for Fisher and his incompetent O staff. Never should have been that 4-12 monstrosity. It seems kinda disingenuous to refer to it as a 4-12 team. So to go from an 8-8 type roster to a 10-11 win roster seems doable in one offseason now that the coaching staff has been overhauled. At least to me.

2) You think C is our only hole? Hell, it's not even the only unknown on the OL! RG and RT are both question marks right now, although I included neither in my posted list of holes.

3) Counting Austin as a starting WR is a big mistake, imo. A very BIG mistake. We have Woods as the only known commodity in our WR corps. All others are iffy. If McVay wants to run a 3 WR set, he'd better get at least one more WR.

4) We have an unproven Higbee at TE and a HC that loves 2-3 TE sets. Are you telling me that TE is not a hole at this point?

5) Yeah, we have Tru on a 1 year rental and Webster or the oft injured Gaines as the other outside CB. You telling me that CB isn't a hole? Maybe 2 holes, even?

6) Ironically, FS might not be a hole. Depending on Randolph, among others. But it might be. After all, we just lost a starter there.

I don't disagree with your position pick recommendations, OldSchool. Quite the contrary.

And I love reading your mocks.

I'm just nitpicking about our different perceptions of existing team holes, I guess.

My take is that holes are things that must be fixed in order to become a legit playoff contender this year. Yeah, I said this year. Lol.

 

[OldSchool]

We just see this differently, OldSchool. Which is perfectly fine, btw. Makes for interesting discussions.

Where to start?

1) This shoulda been at least an 8-8 team but for Fisher and his incompetent O staff. Never should have been that 4-12 monstrosity. It seems kinda disingenuous to refer to it as a 4-12 team. So to go from an 8-8 type roster to a 10-11 win roster seems doable in one offseason now that the coaching staff has been overhauled. At least to me.

2) You think C is our only hole? Hell, it's not even the only unknown on the OL! RG and RT are both question marks right now, although I included neither in my posted list of holes.

3) Counting Austin as a starting WR is a big mistake, imo. A very BIG mistake. We have Woods as the only known commodity in our WR corps. All others are iffy. If McVay wants to run a 3 WR set, he'd better get at least one more WR.

4) We have an unproven Higbee at TE and a HC that loves 2-3 TE sets. Are you telling me that TE is not a hole at this point?

5) Yeah, we have Tru on a 1 year rental and Webster or the oft injured Gaines as the other outside CB. You telling me that CB isn't a hole? Maybe 2 holes, even?

6) Ironically, FS might not be a hole. Depending on Randolph, among others. But it might be. After all, we just lost a starter there.

I don't disagree with your position pick recommendations, OldSchool. Quite the contrary.

And I love reading your mocks.

I'm just nitpicking about our different perceptions of existing team holes, I guess.

My take is that holes are things that must be fixed in order to become a legit playoff contender this year. Yeah, I said this year. Lol.

The only thing I'll say is to again point out a major difference. You don't like the starter at a position so you're calling it a hole. If we have two guys that McVay or one of the coaches said will battle for a starting position that isn't a hole that's competition. If we sign Sullivan the only spot where we don't have somebody lined up to start or compete for the job is in TJ McDonalds old spot. Every where else whether you like them or not we have somebody. A spot you or I or anybody else in the Rams Fan Family feels could or should be upgraded isn't a hole. It's a spot that the people in charge could upgrade.

 

[GabesHorn]

The only thing I'll say is to again point out a major difference. You don't like the starter at a position so you're calling it a hole. If we have two guys that McVay or one of the coaches said will battle for a starting position that isn't a hole that's competition. If we sign Sullivan the only spot where we don't have somebody lined up to start or compete for the job is in TJ McDonalds old spot. Every where else whether you like them or not we have somebody. A spot you or I or anybody else in the Rams Fan Family feels could or should be upgraded isn't a hole. It's a spot that the people in charge could upgrade.

After watching Rams football over 50 years , and many here have seen more than 50. It all comes down to opinion. I agree the folks we have in quite a few spots are holes. This is before injuries occurr. They always happen. It is not a positive VS negative opinion . We all see it happen every year. Especially with new offensive and defensive schemes this year even with a MAJOR upgrade in coaching. We have not even seen who will be our starters yet. Are we really debating what a hole is? We have a lot of very weak area's of competition for starters. You can't just post something that may hurt or come across as negative when you're trying your hardest after 50 + years to simply be truthfull in my own opinion. We have a very weak and paper thin roster. We Must compare ourselves with the two SB teams. We don't stack up.

I'm sorry if the truth hurts. After 50+ years I deserve the right to be as honest as we all know what kind of OL,WR's and TE's and RB's we have from what we saw last year. We do not know what new coaching will upgrade our players still on the roster. We can be hopefull and positive as possible still knowing Tavon Austin has yet to fully transform into what he was at WV. He is being paid like a top #1 WR. We need less drops and Coach McVay likes 3 TE sets and we have 2 second year TE's and a fullback in Harkey.

I can write a book starting with each OL position. We upgraded OLT and I pray he lasts healthy for 3 years till we can readdress his position with some youth. We don't have that luxury. Grob is still a ? . C is a HOLE even with a 3RD or 4th round pick in the draft as we need CB's and a FS that are starter potential. We need to see Gurley rebound before we just expect it to happen just because he was a college Phenom. And showed major flashes as a rookie. Or just call it a sophmore slump.

Barron also had a major regression and he was where Williams wanted him in his special "D" . Now he has to play a LB position that puts him very light in the britches for. Unless Phillips is gonna move him to a position he was not successfull at in Tampa Bay in coverage. We have lots of major questions all over the team. I personally LOVE the start of fixing where the fish took us. I believe we will see better efforts than we got use to seeing. Less penalties from knuckleheads and a team attitude will benefit MY RAMS. I love my Blue & Whites with classy players in them. Can't wait to actually see football again. BUT we have many HOLES to fill. I won't run away. I'm loyal and proven but I recognize how far we have to go. McVay is gonna earn his check to turn this around. I hope we have a great health year. We all are aware of how offensive lineman get nicked up. Our depth will get many chances to start as every year. I'm gonna be honest with where we are.

Even when I disagree with a post totally I don't put up the disagree emoji. I just hope when others do it to me they would be nice enough to post up about what part of my post they dissagree with. So Limey please offer me a written post on what part of my post you disagree with. I want to be best friends with everyone here as we have a special bond by a common shared experience (Mine 50+ years). I know with the great writers here you can post up a response that can not be rebutted. I'm a friend with being proven wrong. Happens many times a day with this old man. GO RAMS!!! Thankyou for such an AWESOME place for desperate hardcore RAM fans to escape to and talk RAMS truth.

 

[OldSchool]

Got it so the new definition of a roster hole is a player you don't like. Or a player that may possibly get hurt. We spend a 3rd round pick on a guy it's still a roster hole.



I think I've run my course with this debate have a wonderful evening gentlemen.

 

[Riverumbbq]

We really don't know about the NT position as I don't think Wade has ever addressed it specifically. Brockers certainly can be the started based on Wades past starters. Easley could as well and they both could start at DE.

Of all the current Rams defensive linemen, while Donald, Easley & Trinca-Pasat more fit a UT role as 4-3 Dlinemen, in certain packages they can all flourish outside due to their athletic nature. I'm not so sure Easley and Donald would make for a natural fit at NT. They have the athletic ability and initial burst to split gaps which may fit a Phillips scheme well, but only weighing in at the 285 range and going up against 310-335lb. offensive linemen consistently may take more of a toll than it's worth. They are small enough to get under the pads of most OLinemen here, but their real talents may be wasted as an interior 3-4 NT.
On the other hand, even though I personally like Trinca-Pasat in a reserve role behind Donald at RDE, without the benefit of an added NT/DT just yet, I can see where he may have some of those earlier stated desirable attributes Phillips might employ for a NT. Trinca-Pasta has about 10 more lbs. on the other two, is very strong accompanied with a high motor, ... and for an undrafted rookie, he graded 29th out of 177 DT's with his Sparq measurables. The following is a Rob Rang review out of college, and he seemed to have lived up to this prior to his ACL tear :

STRENGTHS: Possesses a short, squatty frame with a low center of gravity that helps him win the leverage battle. Strong, active hands to rip free of blocks. Good lateral agility and balance to slip off blocks as backs attempt to run by, latching on to build his gaudy tackle totals. Surprisingly quick given his frame and can disrupt by splitting gaps. Terrific effort in pursuit.

I like that all our DT's are multi-functional and can move all around our DL in various packages, so it will be interesting to see how Phillips uses them. Still, i'm looking forward to bringing in another LDE & NT/DT for reserve roles to fill out the depth chart, but so far, it appears an excellent base DL to build on. jmo.

 

[OldSchool]

Of all the current Rams defensive linemen, while Donald, Easley & Trinca-Pasat more fit a UT role as 4-3 Dlinemen, in certain packages they can all flourish outside due to their athletic nature. I'm not so sure Easley and Donald would make for a natural fit at NT. They have the athletic ability and initial burst to split gaps which may fit a Phillips scheme well, but only weighing in at the 285 range and going up against 310-335lb. offensive linemen consistently may take more of a toll than it's worth. They are small enough to get under the pads of most OLinemen here, but their real talents may be wasted as an interior 3-4 NT.
On the other hand, even though I personally like Trinca-Pasat in a reserve role behind Donald at RDE, without the benefit of an added NT/DT just yet, I can see where he may have some of those earlier stated desirable attributes Phillips might employ for a NT. Trinca-Pasta has about 10 more lbs. on the other two, is very strong accompanied with a high motor, ... and for an undrafted rookie, he graded 29th out of 177 DT's with his Sparq measurables. The following is a Rob Rang review out of college, and he seemed to have lived up to this prior to his ACL tear :

STRENGTHS: Possesses a short, squatty frame with a low center of gravity that helps him win the leverage battle. Strong, active hands to rip free of blocks. Good lateral agility and balance to slip off blocks as backs attempt to run by, latching on to build his gaudy tackle totals. Surprisingly quick given his frame and can disrupt by splitting gaps. Terrific effort in pursuit.

I like that all our DT's are multi-functional and can move all around our DL in various packages, so it will be interesting to see how Phillips uses them. Still, i'm looking forward to bringing in another LDE & NT/DT for reserve roles to fill out the depth chart, but so far, it appears an excellent base DL to build on. jmo.

I just don't know if he has it in him to be a starter. He failed to impress when we saw him on the field in preseason. Easley, Brockers and Trinca-Pasat all have the size to play a NT for Wade. It's just a question of what he wants.

 

[shovelpass]

gr'Oy Vey.

 

[GabesHorn]

Got it so the new definition of a roster hole is a player you don't like. Or a player that may possibly get hurt. We spend a 3rd round pick on a guy it's still a roster hole.



I think I've run my course with this debate have a wonderful evening gentlemen.

Never saw anyone say any of the above for your great Mic-drop post. If You don't think we've drafted 1st round busts to even a 2nd round pick we're giving up on at wr. this season.I've seen over 50 years of this. I like every player when they are wearing horns. You put words in my mouth saying I don't like a player. I loved Barnes and how hard he fought for us but he still left us with a hole bro.Gave you all kinds of reasons without mentioning the whole team. We are paper thin man. 3rd round roster picks gaurantee you what? I feel cheated because maybe another word should or could be used instead of holes as that seems to upset you. We don't have top level talent in very many places. Sorry I upset you fellow old Rams vet. Hope we can revisit this thread when we get mid-way through this season. Shalom :icare:

 

[Rams43]

Very well said, flv.

Have you ever considered a career in politics? Or marketing? Lol.

 

[BeefJurky]

I can almost guarantee one of Pocic/Elflein will be available in the 3rd.
For day 3, Toth or Orlosky both look decent.

I'd like the Rams to go receiver at #37 and center in the 3rd round, but no matter what I think we are gonna see the Rams improve at center.

Also if the Rams happen to sign Sullivan or Mangold, they should still draft one, albeit possibly a little later than if they hadn't.

 

[dieterbrock]

Sounds like a hole to me
Lol

 

[dolphinlover123]

my bank account has holes

 

[OldSchool]

Sounds like a hole to me
Lol

Sounds like a spot we want to upgrade. A hole is a spot we don't have somebody on the roster that can play there.

 

[bubbaramfan]

Rhaney is a "hole". this thread is wholey full of holes:argue: and I hope t Holey God this thread gets turned around.:grouphug: