Something I noticed regarding Gurley

[jrry32]

My insistence that he didn't is based upon what I saw and read. Harbaugh went with experience over upside as I would think any coach trying to win games would.

And OK. Fisher must have no interest in winning football games. His coaching staff is just there because he has to have one. He gets up day and night to prove that his philosophy on rookies is correct. Gotcha.

Memphis, your own post contradicts itself.

Fisher is essentially doing the same thing you claim that Harbaugh planned to do. As we now know, Harbaugh's plan was flawed. Not sure how you can tell us that Fisher wouldn't make the same mistakes. Especially since he didn't have injuries to force his hand.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Memphis, your own post contradicts itself.

Fisher is essentially doing the same thing you claim that Harbaugh planned to do. As we now know, Harbaugh's plan was flawed. Not sure how you can tell us that Fisher wouldn't make the same mistakes. Especially since he didn't have injuries to force his hand.

Don't see how my post contradicts itself whatsoever. We don't know if Harbaugh's plan was flawed because we don't know what would have happened if the others stayed healthy.

 

[jrry32]

Don't see how my post contradicts itself whatsoever. We don't know if Harbaugh's plan was flawed because we don't know what would have happened if the others stayed healthy.

We do know Harbaugh's plan was flawed because we know what type of players Troy Smith and Kyle Boller were.

 

[1maGoh]

Don't see how my post contradicts itself whatsoever. We don't know if Harbaugh's plan was flawed because we don't know what would have happened if the others stayed healthy.

That's dedication.

 

[Mikey Ram]

Thanks for confirming, sometimes I think I hear just what I want.

As do most people at some point in time...Some simply more often than others...

 

[Memphis Ram]

We do know Harbaugh's plan was flawed because we know what type of players Troy Smith and Kyle Boller were.

No we don't. They may have been better with the Ravens top 3 rushing offense and top 3 defense in points allowed (something neither ever enjoyed) and bettered Flacco's 14 TD vs. 12 INT performance. They may have done better than complete only 44% of their passes during that post-season and the Ravens might have won the Championship. As Mora said, "You think you know, but you don't."

 

[jrry32]

No we don't. They may have been better with the Ravens top 3 rushing offense and top 3 defense in points allowed (something neither ever enjoyed) and bettered Flacco's 14 TD vs. 12 INT performance. They may have done better than complete only 44% of their passes during that post-season and the Ravens might have won the Championship. As Mora said, "You think you know, but you don't."

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rav/2007.htm
QBs: Steve McNair, Kyle Boller, and Troy Smith
Record: 5-11

Yes, we do know that. I'm not even sure how it's debatable. It's like arguing that the 2008 Falcons might have been better off with Chris Redman.

 

[Memphis Ram]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rav/2007.htm
QBs: Steve McNair, Kyle Boller, and Troy Smith
Record: 5-11

Yes, we do know that. I'm not even sure how it's debatable. It's like arguing that the 2008 Falcons might have been better off with Chris Redman.

Did you even read your link and my statement?

2007 Head Coach / Offensive Coordinator: Brian Billick / Rick Neuheisel
2007 Rushing offense was 16th ranked in yards (1,797)
2007 Defense 22nd in points allowed


2008 Head Coach John Harbaugh / Offensive Coordinator: Jon Harbaugh / Cam Cameron
2008 Rushing offense was 3rd ranked in yards (2,376)
2008 Defense 3rd in points allowed

We don't know.

 

[jrry32]

Did you even read your link and my statement?

2007 Head Coach / Offensive Coordinator: Brian Billick / Rick Neuheisel
2007 Rushing offense was 16th ranked in yards (1,797)
2007 Defense 22nd in points allowed


2008 Head Coach John Harbaugh / Offensive Coordinator: Jon Harbaugh / Cam Cameron
2008 Rushing offense was 3rd ranked in yards (2,376)
2008 Defense 3rd in points allowed

We don't know.

We absolutely know. We know all about Flacco, Boller, and Smith. There's no question that Flacco is the best QB in that group. Even rookie Flacco. I really don't know how you can say otherwise.

It's like arguing that the Colts would have been better off with Drew Stanton in 2012 or the Panthers would have been better off with Derek Anderson in 2011 or the Falcons would have been better off with Chris Redman in 2008. Yea, you can plead ignorance and claim that we can never know because it didn't happen. But it's simply playing ignorant to me. You know who those guys were. You know the results they would have brought.

 

[Memphis Ram]

We absolutely know. We know all about Flacco, Boller, and Smith. There's no question that Flacco is the best QB in that group. Even rookie Flacco. I really don't know how you can say otherwise.

It's like arguing that the Colts would have been better off with Drew Stanton in 2012 or the Panthers would have been better off with Derek Anderson in 2011 or the Falcons would have been better off with Chris Redman in 2008. Yea, you can plead ignorance and claim that we can never know because it didn't happen. But it's simply playing ignorant to me. You know who those guys were. You know the results they would have brought.

No. It's me simply refusing to play the God role, unlike yourself.

How did Alex Smith look prior to the other Harbaugh? If the Panthers had the chance to force in a 1st round rookie QB we might not have even seen Jake Delhomme get his shot in Carolina and immediately play in a Super Bowl. And this after 5 years of doing absolutely nothing. Sticking with Carolina, Kerry Collins stinks it up there, but becomes pretty good and also plays in a Super Bowl under Fassell in New York. Did you call it when Brad Johnson finally got things clicking in Minnesota after 5 mediocre years (he eventually played in a Super Bowl in Tampa, too)? And I guess Rich Gannon (Super Bowl Champion) should given up somewhere in his 11 mediocre years prior to his turnaround. What did Trent Green do before Mike Martz entered the equation? Along those lines, thank God the Rams didn't have and forced a 1st round rookie in the lineup or most of the world may have never heard of Kurt Warner. Each and every one of them can attribute their circumstances as a factor in how much they succeeded.

Unless you called all these things, how can you be so sure that given the right circumstances that it's not possible that you could have been proven wrong? You can't. Well not without continuing to play God.

Again, we have never seen the other options in the same circumstances Flacco enjoyed when he put up with 14 TD vs. 12 INT game managing rookie season. Game managing which is a helluva lot easier to do with a one of the top rated rushing attacks and defenses, which again, the others never enjoyed.

 

[PressureD41]

The QB is definitely a position where they can upgrade significantly.

But OL is also a position where they can improve week to week. The line has been hovering around solid range in pass pro, but below average in the run game. Some of it is scheme, where they are facing a non-stop barrage of run blitzes, but it's also just poor run blocking by the players and bad execution with breakdowns all over.

I suspect Fish and Boras had them work very heavy on pass pro and it's something they're gonna get ironed out here in the next few games. But it's clearly a problem and it is a way this team can get a LOT better here real soon.

My hope of course is that run game gets rolling and then they are looking at a big upgrade at QB at some point, plus a small boost from adding a couple hands guys to the offense in Coop and Spruce. Oh yeah, that would be nice.

It sure going to be interesting mid too late season. Once the rookies start getting meaningful snaps! Finally Rams fans have "hope" on the offense side of the ball..
I still support Fisher & Snead. I'm willing to see how this season goes and possibly the following season also.

Goff is only 21 years old and was a true Jr. Lets give him time to get ready for the NFL (playbook, prep etc) and the process he will need to run an NFL offense. "pre snaps" & "reading defenses".
But there is light is flickering at the end of the tunnel imho

 

[jrry32]

No. It's me simply refusing to play the God role, unlike yourself.

How did Alex Smith look prior to the other Harbaugh? If the Panthers had the chance to force in a 1st round rookie QB we might not have even seen Jake Delhomme get his shot in Carolina and immediately play in a Super Bowl. And this after 5 years of doing absolutely nothing. Sticking with Carolina, Kerry Collins stinks it up there, but becomes pretty good and also plays in a Super Bowl under Fassell in New York. Did you call it when Brad Johnson finally got things clicking in Minnesota after 5 mediocre years (he eventually played in a Super Bowl in Tampa, too)? And I guess Rich Gannon (Super Bowl Champion) should given up somewhere in his 11 mediocre years prior to his turnaround. What did Trent Green do before Mike Martz entered the equation? Along those lines, thank God the Rams didn't have and forced a 1st round rookie in the lineup or most of the world may have never heard of Kurt Warner. Each and every one of them can attribute their circumstances as a factor in how much they succeeded.

Unless you called all these things, how can you be so sure that given the right circumstances that it's not possible that you could have been proven wrong? You can't. Well not without continuing to play God.

Again, we have never seen the other options in the same circumstances Flacco enjoyed when he put up with 14 TD vs. 12 INT game managing rookie season. Game managing which is a helluva lot easier to do with a one of the top rated rushing attacks and defenses, which again, the others never enjoyed.

I'm not playing God. I'm playing rational. If you want to bet on miracles, go for it. Me? I'm not betting on Kyle Boller to turn around his disastrous career. Why? Because I know he was a disaster before 2008 and a disaster after it. I'm not betting on Troy Smith to be more than a backup QB. Why? Because he never showed himself to be more than that in his short career.

I'm not playing God. I have the benefit of hindsight. Boller and Smith weren't Rich Gannon, Trent Green, Brad Johnson, Jake Delhomme, or Kurt Warner. The book on their careers is written. We all know who they were.

Best yet, you say we didn't see them get the right circumstances. How so? Kyle Boller was with the Ravens from 2003 to 2008. He got plenty of opportunities in the right circumstances. He was a crappy QB. You want an illustration of that? The Ravens went 6-10 in 2005 with Boller starting and then jumped to 13-3 in 2006 when he was replaced with Steve McNair. Troy Smith? The guy was out of the NFL by the end of his 4th year and couldn't even stick in the CFL. Yea, I'm playing God because I think there's no chance that some miracle would have happened.

 

[Memphis Ram]

I'm not playing God. I'm playing rational. If you want to bet on miracles, go for it. Me? I'm not betting on Kyle Boller to turn around his disastrous career. Why? Because I know he was a disaster before 2008 and a disaster after it. I'm not betting on Troy Smith to be more than a backup QB. Why? Because he never showed himself to be more than that in his short career.

I'm not playing God. I have the benefit of hindsight. Boller and Smith weren't Rich Gannon, Trent Green, Brad Johnson, Jake Delhomme, or Kurt Warner. The book on their careers is written. We all know who they were.

Best yet, you say we didn't see them get the right circumstances. How so? Kyle Boller was with the Ravens from 2003 to 2008. He got plenty of opportunities in the right circumstances. He was a crappy QB. You want an illustration of that? The Ravens went 6-10 in 2005 with Boller starting and then jumped to 13-3 in 2006 when he was replaced with Steve McNair. Troy Smith? The guy was out of the NFL by the end of his 4th year and couldn't even stick in the CFL. Yea, I'm playing God because I think there's no chance that some miracle would have happened.

The hindsight is based upon different circumstances. We don't know how Boller or Smith would have panned out that year if they got the 2008 Ravens circumstances that Flacco enjoyed. And again, he didn't exactly light things up with his 14 TD vs. 12 INT game managing performance. That top rated rushing attack and defense ( along with new coaching staff) had far more to do with the team's success that year than just inserting Flacco.

Besides, wasn't 2005 the year Boller got hurt and missed part of the season along with Ray Lewis (the heart and soul of the team) who missed most of the season due to injury? And didn't they have the 21st ranked rushing attack. Again, not top three as Flacco enjoyed in 2008, but 21st? And for all we know, Warner could have been out of the NFL faster than Brown if not for the miracle in St. Louis. Circumstances can matter.

 

[Memphis Ram]

@jrry32

Just saw where the confusion came from. I meant to say potential upside in regards to Harbaugh's decision for that season. Just as any decision to insert Goff would represent a decision of potential upside over Keenum this year.

 

[Mackeyser]

You'll find out soon enough. But I dare say you won't know for a few years anyway. There are too many examples of QBs who come on strong and then fizzle out into nothing, so your impatience may last longer than you might anticipate or even want. In the meantime, direct your ass to a sofa and try to enjoy whatever team this Organization puts on the field. Because wishing it into a different team is only gonna rustle yo jimmies.

Sure enough. Any frustration isn't to the level of preoccupation. And I'm MUCH more frustrated and concerned with our bassackward scheme than I am about Goff.

 

[Mackeyser]

Exactly, Wentz is able to flourish on the spot Week 1 in his debut because Pederson simplifies the verbiage and playbook of his offense. It's a viable short-term solution but once defenses have more gametape, the simplified offense will backfire. I would've preferred this approach to Goff, implementing elements of the Bear Raid offense while meshing concepts with whatever the freak Fisher/Boras is trying to run on offense. But I have zero faith in Fisher able to implement a scheme like that; certainly appreciate the creativity he and Williams provide on defense though.

Well, Pederson isn't going to keep the playbook static. So while teams will have tape on Wentz, Pederson will have the advantage of adding new things every week as part of his natural development.

 

[Bluesy]

I meant that putting so much importance on winning now and not getting Goff experience will only delay him that much more next year. At some point when you draft a QB #1 overall, you have to admit that the future is more important than the presence...unless your starter is Brett Favre.

I know we're all Rams fans here but that doesn't mean we always have to look forward to next year. Lol.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I know we're all Rams fans here but that doesn't mean we always have to look forward to next year. Lol.

They have conditioned me to think that way over the last decade.