Snead/Mcvay neglect caring about the 0-line isn't backed up by facts.

[RamDino]

Well none of those back-ups have played a full season so is it wise to go into a season with injury prone starters and back-ups with zero experience

Noteboom has looked pretty good playing left tackle against decent competition and Allen was a pro bowl alternate last year. His knee wasn't a problem until training camp, I believe. And the other three guys were experienced backups along with a rookie third round draft choice who we all thought might start, so I wouldn't say they were asking for trouble.

 

[RamsOfCastamere]

Oh... so, before the season, when it looked like the OL would be Noteboom, Edwards, Allen, Shelton or Bruss, and Havenstein, you expressed concern that an OL with those players would be a trainwreck?

Rams fan: "Um, no...."

Not true at all, speak for yourself. Many of us expressed this concern throughout the offseason. Last year the run O was 29th, and we did not expect the line to be better with two new inexperienced lineman.

 

[Tano]

Noteboom has looked pretty good playing left tackle against decent competition and Allen was a pro bowl alternate last year. His knee wasn't a problem until training camp, I believe. And the other three guys were experienced backups along with a rookie third round draft choice who we all thought might start, so I wouldn't say they were asking for trouble.

Noteboom has been injured every season and Allen had issues with his knees during the season.

Getting a full season out of these guys is a huge wish list.

As to experienced back-ups, none of them started more than a game or two/

I am going to have to disagree with you on this.

Bruss was a decent pick and I was hoping he was going to do well but he wasn't doing well in the preseason and probably needs a full season to build himself up properly and learn the game. Can't count on rookies doing well on the OL in the first season.

If we had drafted a high OL in 2020 and 2021, I would say they did all they could to get decent OL but they didn't and I complained about those two drafts after they occurred.

 

[Loyal]

Sigh.

Rams fan: "I saw these problems with the offensive line coming."

Did you?

Rams fan: "Yeah. I knew that they should have drafted Creed Humphrey and that we'd have a problem when Andrew Whitworth retired."

Oh, so did you complain when we re-signed Joe Noteboom?

Rams fan: "Well... no."

And did you complain when we re-signed Brian Allen?

Rams fan: "Not really."

How about when we let Austin Corbett go?

Rams fan: "Well, I expressed some concern, but I thought that Shelton or a rookie could probably replace him."

Oh... so, before the season, when it looked like the OL would be Noteboom, Edwards, Allen, Shelton or Bruss, and Havenstein, you expressed concern that an OL with those players would be a trainwreck?

Rams fan: "Um, no...."

Then I guess you predicted that we'd end up with four starting OL and two key backups on the IR during the first half of the season.

Rams fan: "Well, obviously I could not have known that."

So... what exactly did you see coming?

Rams fan: "THIS!!! This collapse!!! I saw it coming!"

Riiiiiight.....

I have purposefully stopped talking about the disaster of not picking Creed Humphreys for Tutu...I do some blue font stuff at times, but the indignant nature of my posts last year have ended. But since you are ragging on us about the idea of a prediction of a shit show for the Oline this year., here goes....

What happens when you get a rookie all star at Center? Does it make it easier for the Guards when a guy can hold the center down vs massive NT's and who can also call a good game? You ask why we didn't loudly proclaim that the end is nigh at the start of the season....Well, because we hope for the best even when we are doubtful, because we are fans. Aside from Whit's signing. we are dumpster divers for the Oline (low, low draft picks and udfa's). I roll my eyes when I hear "draft and develop" for these low round guys and then we pick Tutu and his like in rounds 2-4 (His like, meaning high ceiling guys who must "develop" to be NFL players). Yes, I complained about Brian Allen when he took over for Blytrhe, who went to be a back up to Creed Humphreys in Kansas City. Allen is ok if he's surrounded by decent players, but he isn't a strength, inmho.

Joe Noteboom is a guy who's been "developing" for years, but has never shown an ability for durability, let alone excellence. Again, this was a cross your fingers, situation, hoping it would work. Our Oline was a disaster waiting to happen and the worst did. I just hope Matthew Stafford isn't permanently damaged by this cheapskate strategy on the Oline.

 

[TexasRam]

Opinions are like assholes and we all have one so here is my humble asshole opinion.

First off, PFF is by no means solid evidence for an arguement. We have detailed this over and over on this board year after year.

Second, the Oline ratings for the Rams are heavily skewed by the scheme Mcvay has ran over the years which has emphasized rollouts, misdirection etc. 2020 our Oline was a complete shitshow to anyone that cares to review the film.

Also, Allen was heavily assisted last year by secondary blockers i.e. guards, TE’s and RB’s or PFF would have roasted him.

Literally none of our starting five this year are true pro bowl level blockers. It’s a mediocre group all the way around. Shelton, Bruss, Jackson are still unknowns. No more no less.

Let’s see how the Oline looks when they are all back healthy. I suspect we go from 32 ranked offense to about 20ish at best.

There was neglect or shall we say calculated risks that certain unproven players could perform rather then prioritizing conventional approaches like resigning Corbett over other players or Humphries over Atwell. Or anyone instead of Evans.

So yea, hard to judge based on bottom dweller bench players playing right now., but the starting five are very questionable by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[AvengerRam]

Asked and answered.

Nicely done counselor but it wouldn't hold up in court.

After the second or third objection the judge would have told you to have a seat.

Nah... there were a couple of leading questions, there, but this is presumably an adverse witness, so they'd be allowed.

Besides... I don't have the burden of proof.

 

[Turducken]

The noteboom extension was worrisome, I just swallowed hard and quietly prayed for his health as he soaked up the Whitworth retirement dividend to our salary cap.

Sadly, none of the Von Miller FA dividend went to the OL which was our weakest position group (once Wagner was acquired). Wagz was an A+ signing, but the rest (signing ARob and extending veteran players who were already under contract) did nothing to improve the team this year. Those moves basically painted us into a corner financially for this season and next.

I have made peace with it this year. No promises for 2023.

 

[Ellard80]

Opinions are like assholes and we all have one so here is my humble asshole opinion.

First off, PFF is by no means solid evidence for an arguement. We have detailed this over and over on this board year after year.

Second, the Oline ratings for the Rams are heavily skewed by the scheme Mcvay has ran over the years which has emphasized rollouts, misdirection etc. 2020 our Oline was a complete shitshow to anyone that cares to review the film.

Also, Allen was heavily assisted last year by secondary blockers i.e. guards, TE’s and RB’s or PFF would have roasted him.

Literally none of our starting five this year are true pro bowl level blockers. It’s a mediocre group all the way around. Shelton, Bruss, Jackson are still unknowns. No more no less.

Let’s see how the Oline looks when they are all back healthy. I suspect we go from 32 ranked offense to about 20ish at best.

There was neglect or shall we say calculated risks that certain unproven players could perform rather then prioritizing conventional approaches like resigning Corbett over other players or Humphries over Atwell. Or anyone instead of Evans.

So yea, hard to judge based on bottom dweller bench players playing right now., but the starting five are very questionable by any stretch of the imagination.

I think a lot of us were not sure if this oline would be any good.

my point was that there is a common theme among many posters that McVay doesnt care about the 0line but last year we had some of the best pass pro in the league.. and there were a couple of years in there where we had a good run efficiency also

you can take pff rankings for whatever its worth - but there just isnt much evidence to support that overall conclusion.

 

[AvengerRam]

Not true at all, speak for yourself. Many of us expressed this concern throughout the offseason. Last year the run O was 29th, and we did not expect the line to be better with two new inexperienced lineman.

Okay, but "concern" and seeing this (including the injuries and their impact) coming are two entirely different things.

 

[PARAM]

PFF Grades

2017 6th
2018 6th
2019 -31st
2020 3rd
2021 7th

Outside of 2019 the 0-line average ranking is 5.8 out of 32 teams

This year the 0-line has been decimated by injuries

Funny how that works out.......they were decimated by injuries in 2019 too, though nowhere near as bad as 2022.

Noteboom missed 10 games, Allen missed 7 and Havenstein missed 7.

 

[TexasRam]

I think a lot of us were not sure if this oline would be any good.

my point was that there is a common theme among many posters that McVay doesnt care about the 0line but last year we had some of the best pass pro in the league.. and there were a couple of years in there where we had a good run efficiency also

you can take pff rankings for whatever its worth - but there just isnt much evidence to support that overall conclusion.

I get what your saying and I agree that Mcvay did prioritize the Oline certain years. Other years the riskier unproven depth players got a shot. Or money was spent elsewhere.

They have to live under a cap so risks always need to be taken based on the valuations of depth players such as Colemen, Noteboom, or even Allen or Edwards in past years. I personally think it’s a bad idea to prioritize WR or LB for example, over Oline. Robinson or Atwell are two examples.

Look what Andy Reid did. Went out and completely rebuilt his Oline via pro bowl level LT, guard and drafted Humphries over a 150 lb WR. Now the Chiefs offense is back on top and Mahomes is a world killer again. There was a time when we went toe to toe vs Mahomes and beat him with Jared Goff for F’s sake.

Look at how mediocre the 2022 starters would have been:

Noteboom - decent pass blocker but still struggled this year before injury. Not a good run blocker.

Edwards- most here thinks he sucks. I think he is a solid albeit not pro bowl level talent.

Allen- better than Kolone but heavily assisted in pass pro last year due to inability to constistently block one on one.

Coleman- unproven.

Havenstein- great run blocker, struggles at times vs top pass rushers.

That is an Oline that is serviceable at best but a problem vs tough fronts

 

[PARAM]

Many on this board have expressed fair criticism for Brian Allen and his re-signing.

So who's MORE wrong-- those criticizing the offensive production or those criticizing the quality of depth in our 5th and 6th string lineman? Open discussion. Go

But that goes hand in hand with "we shoulda drafted Humphrey". Fans said, " we gotta have Humphrey" but the staff said "we have our C on the roster". What a surprise, it was Brian Allen and he got a Superbowl ring starting at C. I wanted them to draft Davis Mills and IMO, they should have. He gets to watch Stafford win a SB, learns from him and takes over in 2024 or 2025

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

lol bro you didn't read it.

Those are the Pro Football Focus line rankings - we average top 6 out of 32 teams.

No, I made an assumption, I was trying to hurry

But my argument still stands. And I don’t believe those rankings to be an accurate depiction of the poor running game. They’ve struggled to run the ball with consistency for the last two years.

 

[AZRams]

Two 6ths and a 7th?

When they pick Atwell over Humphrey, then questioning their neglect of the offensive line is a very fair question.

Plus they wasted a 4th on a very longshot in Harris in the same draft. This happens a year before they knew Corbett was a free agent along with Allen and Noteboom. Instead they waste money signing two of them one well below average OLT and an average oft injured Center.

If myself and a few others could see this coming, then why can’t NFL coaches?

They were sold on Allen as the starting center going into 2021.

 

[Ellard80]

No, I made an assumption, I was trying to hurry

But my argument still stands. And I don’t believe those rankings to be an accurate depiction of the poor running game. They’ve struggled to run the ball with consistency for the last two years.

last year they struggled... this year they are injured... the years before that they ran the ball well

so, the argument that Mcvay doesnt have good olines is no where near "standing"

 

[I like Rams]

PFF Grades

2017 6th
2018 6th
2019 -31st
2020 3rd
2021 7th

Outside of 2019 the 0-line average ranking is 5.8 out of 32 teams

This year the 0-line has been decimated by injuries

That's kind of the point. Those, like myself, who have criticized the coaching staff for not investing in the oline are asking for the coaching staff to invest in DEPTH. We have been very fortunate with being healthy most of McVays tenure, but one injury could mean going from top 10 to bottom 5.

 

[1maGoh]

With the exception of his time at LG, where his injury was from Allen throwing a guy onto his knee, Notebooms injuries have all come as soon as Whitworth was ready to return. It's been suspicious to me. He'd start and do well, then as soon as Whitworth was ready to come back, Noteboom would come down with an injury of his own. I was hoping that he was... exaggerating his injuries to get some extra rest after filling in and that this year he'd just play.















Sadly, the guy just gets injured super easily and we've been lucky that he's held up as long as he did in his previous stints as a starter. nts

 

[RAMSinLA]

8 games 8 different offensive lines. That is hard to overcome. When the guy to your left or right changes every game you are going to have a long day.

 

[Pupped]

I see a lot of similarities in this discussion… and I feel like it boils down to process versus cherry-picked results.

The rash of injuries is the biggest issue.. and they actually had reasonable backups for the “injury prone” players.
What’s more.. the injuries were mostly at guard… Evans is their 4th tackle.. and 6th guard.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

They were sold on Allen as the starting center going into 2021.

I wasn’t. Plus by then didn’t he have his knee blown out by Noteboom? Why risk it when they had a great center prospect fall right in their lap. If worse came to worse one of Allen or Humphrey could move to guard. Meanwhile they don’t even use Atwell. If they were going to throw a pick away then throw it away on an area of future need and on a player of NFL size.