Simple Question...

[had]

Does anyone think Fisher has done a good job this year?

I think he has done a poor job. The product he has put on the field in his 2nd year is not representative of a top HC. And he is getting paid as a top HC. The man is stealing money this year.

Off the top of my head, with my middle aged memory in play, let's see:

--Pre-season, the Rams go through the motions and barely break a sweat.
--First 4-5 games, it becomes clear the Rams were not prepared to start the season. Offense sucks. Defense soft.
----Fail.
--Mid-season, Rams pull off a couple of impressive wins. Yowza. Where was this? Wtf?
----Winning.
--Most recent slide: Rams back to the start.
----Fail.

To recap: Fisher didn't have the team ready to start the season. Kept the wheels on and stunned a couple of teams. Side note -- those teams kind of suck. Now the Rams have gone fulll circle and are no longer competitive. I've seen a couple of guys say injuries, or Bradford's injury, make the difference. Not so sure about that.

This season is an absolute failure. The coaching staff has failed. As have the players.

 

[RamzFanz]

In the conclusion of the offseason I had drank enough Kool-Aide to satisfy a blue whale... (HAHA)

I thought the wide open passing attack would blow open the running lanes and the heavens would open up just to smile upon witnessing the glory that would be Rams football. Yeah, I was one of those guys... maybe the guy to that Seahawks board I got banned from causing a crap storm the size of an F5 tornado over there... whatever. It's what I do (at least to Seacock fans).

But there was something dramatic missing in our offense. A RUN GAME! Even the GSOT had a stellar running game with the Great 28. Richardson was NOT the solution. Teams just sat back and took away the deep options leaving check downs. We got embarrassed! This continued up until the Jacksonville game. Then Stacy took over and beat Jacksonville and destroyed Houston, who was considered a very good team up until that point. The power O was thriving until we played the stout run defense of CAR. It was a rough game with very bad breaks for us but it was just one game... until we lost Bradford. THAT'S when the season ended. We went on to lose the next to Seattle and Tenn which I firmly belive we win with Sam. We ran over weak run defenses but it didn't matter because the stout run defenses were too much without a Sam. Our team found itself at one point but it was a limited version. Now we just need to salvage what honor we have try to salvage some honor.

Me and you both over there getting banned :woot:

I think you've spelled it out pretty good.

I'm already starting to think about koolaid again with Sam back, experience for our rooks, Bailey coming on, and those delicious draft picks.

I'm gonna need a new id for the Seasucks site :heh:

 

[max]

I think Fisher knows he had a bad year, made some bad decisions, didn't prepare his team as well as he knows he could have. Maybe he trusted his coaches too much, and I expect he will make some changes in that department.

Fisher said last night, they will address CB in the offseason, he said they don't have enough depth there. So they will drafting CB high, I bet. He also said Bailey will play more. They have got to get him ready for next year. He's got the best hands on the team.

This team is not far off, with the premier draft picks Fisher has coming next year they should have enough talent to be a winning team. Just win games and the playoffs will take care of themselves. Wilson and Kaepernick are not Manning and Brady, they are fallible. We just need to win our division games at home and win most of the other 10 games. We have as much talent as the NFC East, that's 4 winnable games there. Oakland, SD, that's 2 more very winnable games, and maybe Manning retires if he wins the SB. That makes Denver very beatable. Then Minny and Atlanta, they aren't the Saints and Panthers in terms of talent. Fisher can win 10 games next year. Really, I expect him to with the talent he will have.

 

[F. Mulder]

I think Fisher knows he had a bad year, made some bad decisions, didn't prepare his team as well as he knows he could have. Maybe he trusted his coaches too much, and I expect he will make some changes in that department.

Fisher said last night, they will address CB in the offseason, he said they don't have enough depth there. So they will drafting CB high, I bet. He also said Bailey will play more. They have got to get him ready for next year. He's got the best hands on the team.

This team is not far off, with the premier draft picks Fisher has coming next year they should have enough talent to be a winning team. Just win games and the playoffs will take care of themselves. Wilson and Kaepernick are not Manning and Brady, they are fallible. We just need to win our division games at home and win most of the other 10 games. We have as much talent as the NFC East, that's 4 winnable games there. Oakland, SD, that's 2 more very winnable games, and maybe Manning retires if he wins the SB. That makes Denver very beatable. Then Minny and Atlanta, they aren't the Saints and Panthers in terms of talent. Fisher can win 10 games next year. Really, I expect him to with the talent he will have.

What you have in teams like SF and Seattle especially are really solid teams through and through. Sure Wilson is an above average QB and Kap can flash special talent but for the MOST part those teams are so solid on both sides of the ball they can win without any herculean effort from the QB or any one particular player (but both of those QBs have the ability to win games that are tight or everything isn't going right).

Any holes SF or Seattle have are very minor and certainly aren't to the degree where an opposing team can continue to exploit them to the point of victory. When I look at the young, allegedly talented Rams, there are so many ways currently to beat them on both sides of the ball. Add to that an awful lot of games where one unit plays well while the other doesn't resulting in either a loss or an unnecessary close game.

When you trot out an above average OL few people notice it except that the RB has more lanes to run, the QB has another second or two to make plays etc. When you have above average DBs the DL have an extra second or two to get pressure on the QB etc. My point is that I want playmakers as much as anyone but I believe some potential playmakers exist. What I want is a solid team that can't constantly be exploited on one side of the ball or one position (i.e. DBs or run Def).

As it stands now there are an awful lot of unknowns on how to get the Rams to be solid through and through. I think IF Bradford is back the offensive skill set can be there. What they lack is a dominating OL. Defensively I think the front 4 is/can be special and think they can get by with the LBers but are in awful shape in the DB position. Add to that run D.

I don't care who they get and when they get them but I would put OL (1-3 new starters) and DB (1-2 new starters) as the biggest weakness this team currently has. Would that prevent me from getting a potential game changer in the 1st round? Hell no, but in this league you better be able to control the LOS on Offense and deep and solid vs the pass.

 

[max]

FM, the Seahawks OL has been weak this year, hasn't stopped them yet.

We need help on the inside OL. A stud OG would do wonders. I don't think drafting Matthews is better than trading down. I'd rather get 3 first rounders, consisting of Evans, Dennard, and OG Richardson, for example.

 

[BonifayRam]

On this "Defense Regression" I don't see how any Ram fan who is even slightly involved could not see this. What else could it be?? Rams returned all of their 8 DL'ers all of whom are 28 & younger with only a very few small nagging injuries. Fisher even added another speeder named Rivers who i think will be a big assistance in 2014 in the pass rush. Three #1 draft choices invested and two outstanding UFA's in Kendall Langford & William Hayes ...Kendall has shown big improvement over last yr IMO ....just do not understand.

The LB'ing cadre has never been stronger with an outstanding veteran to lead in Spoon, good young vets like JL & Dunbar then add the three rookies of Tree, Armstrong & Bates??? No injuries to speak of????

The secondary was & is the issue could this Ram secondary really be that bad to effect the play of other 7 positions so much? And like it been said before the DC expertise is in the secondary....how much more evidence is there? If I were to try to find excuses and muster up any merit in this DC's .. defense ........It would be weak @ its best. I do not desire to see more of what this DC has to offer myself ...I have seen enough & I am not blind... I am just a very long experienced rabid Ram Fan. IMO the DC needs to go...period. Time for improvement & I see nothing from this DC that provides me any evidence that he can provide this improvement.

 

[jap]

The secondary was & is the issue could this Ram secondary really be that bad to effect the play of other 7 positions so much? And like it been said before the DC expertise is in the secondary....how much more evidence is there? If I were to try to find excuses and muster up any merit in this DC's .. defense ........It would be weak @ its best. I do not desire to see more of what this DC has to offer myself ...I have seen enough & I am not blind... I am just a very long experienced rabid Ram Fan. IMO the DC needs to go...period. Time for improvement & I see nothing from this DC that provides me any evidence that he can provide this improvement.

Perhaps Walton is only good in his specialty, coaching/teaching DB's. His rookie experience at suddenly having to manage the LB and DL units may have been too overwhelming. Other assistant coaches who were promoted to an OC/DC post have floundered as well. One of Fish's specialities is that he is supposed to be good at training defensive coaches to be coaches. It remains to be seen whether he has given up on Tim or whether he still feels he's worth salvaging for another go, with some seriously aggressive improvements. I don't see where this year's Tim conforms to the desires of a Fisher King who challenged his 2012 Rams to break the seasonal sack record.

 

[Warner4Prez]

Didn't anyone else find it comical that they chose to hire the secondary coach from Detroit? I know scheme and all that, but not exactly the poster children for great defenses the past few years over there.

 

[Zaphod]

I think some obvious things happened to the secondary.

I want to say Finnegan was really never that good. But I think they did a great job of covering that up and they had quite a bit of luck. No two ways about it, Finnegan has been a boat anchor at the corner position, and I don't mean in a good way. For the money he's making, they could have kept Mikell at safety.

The same goes for Jenkins with the exception that he is extremely naturally talented. He'll take the risks and sometimes they'll be rewarded other times he'll be burned.

Then they got rid of Quinton Mikell and that left us with:
Matt Giordano as the veteran? Really? Dude is washed up plain and simple.
MacDonald drafted in the 3rd round. More of a hard hitter, weak and coverage and more worried about making the hit than the tackle. Nuff said there
Cody Davis, a UDFA right?
Rodney McLeod, another UDFA?
Darian Stewart, what's this, another UDFA?
Matt Daniels, who dat? Oh, I see a fourth UDFA.

So they've invested a total of a washed out veteran, a third rounder who plays better in the box and then for pass coverage FOUR undrafted free agents?

Quantity is not quality and I'm tired of seeing them fling poo at the walls to see what sticks at the safety position. We'll be average at best with the current strategy even with the best coach in the US.

Wow, yeah, let's blame that on the defensive line or the coordinator.

Sure, Fisher cared about the corner position, he got his buddy from the Titans who has done nothing but regress and needs to be cut loose in the worst way. Then he drafted Janoris Jenkins 2nd round who is really only good in tight man coverage so far in his second year and Trumaine Johnson 3rd round who just continues to improve. It's obvious that they either need to sign a good veteran cornerback or spend a first round pick on a talented corner.

Regarding the new defensive coordinator, I'm not sure what to think. If it is true that Fisher has taken over play calling then his days as a DC are done and good riddance if that be the case. But it would be a huge mistake to continue to throw UDFAs at free safety for anything other than depth and expect spectacular results. I just think you can rely on your defensive line all of the time, and I think it's time they spent some serious capital upgrading the secondary.

 

[CoachO]

I think that if there is general statement that can be made about the job Fisher and his staff have done with THIS team, for me, it's that they seemed to coddle the young players to a fault.

I know that many in here don't want to hear about them being "the youngest team in the league" anymore, and seem to view that as just another excuse. But its real, when you have THIS MANY 1st and 2nd year players being counted on to contribute in the positions they are in. The toughest thing for a coaching staff to evaluate, is how much you can throw at young players, before they are overwhelmed with information overload.

Fisher has been quoted too many times to count, when talking about Ogletree's progress. All throughout training camp, preseason, and into the season, he repeatedly would say, "he is seeing things for the first time." "As he gets more comfortable he will be able to react without thinking".

Now apply that same premise to guys such as McDonald, McLeod, who are now thrust into a prominent starting role. Include the same thing on the offensive side of the ball, with a WR corp who are ALL still in that developmental mode. RB's who are ALL in their 1st or 2nd year, who were in a limited role last year at best.

Everyone on the outside, tends to look at these guys and ask why is Jenkins, Johnson, Givens etc regressing? I see it more being a case of the coaching staff dialing it back across the board, as a by product of the aforementioned newcomers not being at a point where they can handle more. Regardless how "talented" these young players may be, they just don't have the same learning curve. Assessing which of them can handle a bigger load, and who cannot, is the biggest challenge for a coaching staff. It can also hamstring what you can do as a unit when you have no other option.

Then, they get to the point where they can begin to take the kid gloves off, and low and behold, they lose their starting QB. Like it or not, that has to change to approach the coaching staff takes when implementing game plans. Clemens cannot be expected to perform at the same level as Bradford. He has a totally different skillset.

This organization made the decision to move forward with this rebuild by committing to the young players. They have added a mix of FA's but as an overall philosophy, its the youth movement that they will live or die with. The plan is obviously to have a corp group of young player develop together, and build a long term solution, rather than a quick fix.

How it turns out, obviously is still TBD.

 

[BonifayRam]

If you will permit me I would like to comment on your good post below. I have a different opinion & a different take on some of your comments & would like to share them with you....Ok ?

I want to say Finnegan was really never that good. But I think they did a great job of covering that up and they had quite a bit of luck. No two ways about it, Finnegan has been a boat anchor at the corner position, and I don't mean in a good way. For the money he's making, they could have kept Mikell at safety.
I would not want neither of them. Mikell refused to redo his contract. Paying Mikell 8 million was just plain stupid IMO. Mikell tested the market & the best and only offer came from the Panthers @ around 1 mil for this season. So IMO releasing Mikell was smart. I also think offering Cortland 50 million was even more idiotic. I truly am with you on your comments on CF.

The same goes for Jenkins with the exception that he is extremely naturally talented. He'll take the risks and sometimes they'll be rewarded other times he'll be burned.
JJ is truly talented & that makes his play this season all that more perplexing. Fisher needs to get a "CAP" base on all JJ 's game performances. If JJ can get himself turned around from being the Rams 2013 DB victim to predator the situation in this secondary will improve greatly.

Then they got rid of Quinton Mikell and that left us with:
Mikell got rid of himself for being way to greedy he could have reno for 2 to 3 mil but nooooo Mikell demanded the full 8 mil....it was his call he threw his sucker in the dirt & departed.

Matt Giordano as the veteran? Really? Dude is washed up plain and simple.
Matt really has never been a NFL starter & has always been around as the reserve & back up for injuries. I feel he was brought in here by Fisher to be what he is a low cost veteran reserve back up safety. Matt will never be nothing else than that. I have no issue with this small low cost signing by Snead & Fisher.

MacDonald drafted in the 3rd round. More of a hard hitter, weak and coverage and more worried about making the hit than the tackle. Nuff said there
TJ has shown me good potential & am very happy he was selected in the 3rd rd od the 2013 draft. TJ has the look to me as a very solid starter for yrs to come. His size over 6-2 & over 220 pounds was a great need in this secondary and from what we will see in the future with all these top flight tall big receivers making plays all over the NFL...we will be glad TJ is here over the short 5-9 190 pound Mikell who had his issues with the Saints tall receivers.

Cody Davis, a UDFA right?
I really like this Snead & Fisher find myself. Dody was cut before the season began then ended up on the PS then improved enough to make the 53 mater roster by mid season. I see he has been the gunner now on the ST's I have no issues with Davis replacing Matt Giordano on the roster next yr as a Ram reserve low cost cap hit reserve helps supplement the big high cost $$$ cap hits like Cortland.

Rodney McLeod, another UDFA?
This 2nd yr player has been a steady IMO playing in a secondary that has some real bonified problems. Rod has been healthy all season where we lost TJ for a period & as usual Stewart has nagging week by week hangnail issues and Matt Giordano also has had little nagging lower leg issues. Rod has been our best safety this season. Rod is our DB stat leader this season with 61 tacks, 52 solos, 6 PDEF's, 2 INTs, 2 FF's & 2 FR's. not bad for a first yr starter who is being paid near bottom of the Ram pay scale. Rod can play play both Ram safety positions, both Ram corner positions & cover the slots as the Nickel-back! IMO he was one hell of a find by Snead & Fisher.

Darian Stewart, what's this, another UDFA?
Yep will agree with you here ... time to pull his Ram uni after this season.

Matt Daniels, who dat? Oh, I see a fourth UDFA.
Not sure anyone knows how good this safety can be, I would not be surprised if Daniels can stay healthy this 6 ft 215 pound safety can make a big impact in 2014 during the game with his tackling & hits. I sure would not give up on this player.

So they've invested a total of a washed out veteran, a third rounder who plays better in the box and then for pass coverage FOUR undrafted free agents? yep

Quantity is not quality and I'm tired of seeing them fling poo at the walls to see what sticks at the safety position. We'll be average at best with the current strategy even with the best coach in the US.
Snead & Fisher only drafted 1 safety in the last two drafts so yes not much invested in this area. I was under the opinion that they were not all that pleased with all those smaller shorter safeties coming out. Cap $$ & only a small amount of awarded draft selections each yr..forces teams to seek & find many UDFA's to fill your NFL rosters. I really think Fisher was happy with what he saw in McLeod, Daniels & Davis going into TC. Fisher also had not seen the 2011 Darian Stewart show up either ...does not look like he will either. I also believe that I am not with you in calling McLeod, Daniels & Davis wall poo...

Wow, yeah, let's blame that on the defensive line or the coordinator.
I saying the evidence this season will direct most all to question the DL playing below its 2012 performance & the new 2013 DC.

Sure, Fisher cared about the corner position, he got his buddy from the Titans who has done nothing but regress and needs to be cut loose in the worst way. Then he drafted Janoris Jenkins 2nd round who is really only good in tight man coverage so far in his second year and Trumaine Johnson 3rd round who just continues to improve. It's obvious that they either need to sign a good veteran cornerback or spend a first round pick on a talented corner.
I agree, I would have no problem with Snead & Fisher using the Ram second FIRST rd. pick (somewhere between 10 to 15 range) selection on a CB like Darqueze Dennard.

Regarding the new defensive coordinator, I'm not sure what to think. If it is true that Fisher has taken over play calling then his days as a DC are done and good riddance if that be the case. But it would be a huge mistake to continue to throw UDFAs at free safety for anything other than depth and expect spectacular results. I just think you can rely on your defensive line all of the time, and I think it's time they spent some serious capital upgrading the secondary.
IT would not surprise me if on the second day of the draft you will see a over 6ft safety like Deone Bucannon, Ahman Dixon or Craig Lostin being a Ram safety.

 

[mr.stlouis]

Me and you both over there getting banned :woot:

I think you've spelled it out pretty good.

I'm already starting to think about koolaid again with Sam back, experience for our rooks, Bailey coming on, and those delicious draft picks.

I'm gonna need a new id for the Seasucks site :heh:

Heck yes, bud! We were both on their crap list big time. Thing is we covered our tracks by saying if the injuries didn't eat us up... we'll never know what could have been.

I will be over there once we have another stellar offseason. Haha!

 

[RamzFanz]

Heck yes, bud! We were both on their crap list big time. Thing is we covered our tracks by saying if the injuries didn't eat us up... we'll never know what could have been.

I will be over there once we have another stellar offseason. Haha!

Let's hope they get knocked out round 1 of the playoffs. It'll give us something to discuss.

 

[A55VA6]

I have a feeling myself that the players are the least of the problem. Why do you think these good players are all of a sudden terrible? It's gotta be the scheme and coaching.

 

[BonifayRam]

I find it hard to understand after watching last years 2012 safeties ...Starters #1-Craig Dahl & #2-Quintin Mikell, first reserve Rodney McLeod & 2nd reserve Darian Stewart getting beat so often in coverage over & over & over again......Mikell had zero ints & Dahl had one.... that we could look back in now very late in 2013 & say that 2012 safety cadre would be so much better & LESS DESTRUCTIVE than the....

New allegedly improved Fishers 2013 version of #1-Rodney McLeod (who has 2 ints 2 FF & 2 FR's & #2 TJ McDonald, first reserve Darian Stewart & Matt Giordano (who has i int for a 82 yd TD return) & Cody Davis.

I have watched Craig Dahl play a little bit this season & I do not see that he has not improved even wearing a 9ers uni. Mikell I have watched plenty ...while still strong up close to the DL & pressuring the QB... he is still getting beat like a drum in pass coverage so bad anyone see the Saints game? Four passing TD's Mikell had coverage on two of those M.Colston TD's & had issues with assisting covering J Graham once gain too. Saints passed all game long.

So flv & so many other ROD'mers are solid in the corner that Snead & Fisher's 2013 safety cadre is the problem & worse than in 2012? who would have thought? but flv's points have merit.

 

[CoachO]

I find it hard to understand after watching last years 2012 safeties ...Starters #1-Craig Dahl & #2-Quintin Mikell, first reserve Rodney McLeod & 2nd reserve Darian Stewart getting beat so often in coverage over & over & over again......Mikell had zero ints & Dahl had one.... that we could look back in now very late in 2013 & say that 2012 safety cadre would be so much better & LESS DESTRUCTIVE than the....

New allegedly improved Fishers 2013 version of #1-Rodney McLeod (who has 2 ints 2 FF & 2 FR's & #2 TJ McDonald, first reserve Darian Stewart & Matt Giordano (who has i int for a 82 yd TD return) & Cody Davis.

I have watched Craig Dahl play a little bit this season & I do not see that he has not improved even wearing a 9ers uni. Mikell I have watched plenty ...while still strong up close to the DL & pressuring the QB... he is still getting beat like a drum in pass coverage so bad anyone see the Saints game? Four passing TD's Mikell had coverage on two of those M.Colston TD's & had issues with assisting covering J Graham once gain too. Saints passed all game long.

So flv & so many other ROD'mers are solid in the corner that Snead & Fisher's 2013 safety cadre is the problem & worse than in 2012? who would have thought? but flv's points have merit.

I think what you, and so many others seem to be ignoring, that they have made the commitment to "live or die" with the younger guys. I firmly believe that they are more talented at that position now than they were last year. But lets not lose sight of the FACT, that every starter in that secondary right now, are all players in either their FIRST or SECOND year in the league, much less this system.

When you have to use your "starting" safety as your nickel CB due to injury, I think it speaks volumes about where they are right now in their development. I don't think they were prepared to replace Finnegan, and his level of play caught everyone by surprise.

The guy that I think could develop into the most complete safety on the current roster is Cody Davis. He has the size, speed, smarts and is most likely the best tackler of the group. He may not be the big hitter than many like to see, but for me, just get the guy to the ground and he will do that. But once again, the only think IMO, that he lacks is experience.

I said it in my previous post, and reiterate here, this organization, coaching staff, etc. has committed to the youth movement. What we seem to forget, what was the youngest team in the NFL LAST YEAR, is even younger THIS YEAR. While it would have been great to see more wins, I think the reality of the situation is, this staff looked at this year as get whatever we can get out of these kids, and let them develop for years to come.

 

[BonifayRam]

I think what you, and so many others seem to be ignoring, that they have made the commitment to "live or die" with the younger guys. I firmly believe that they are more talented at that position now than they were last year. But lets not lose sight of the FACT, that every starter in that secondary right now, are all players in either their FIRST or SECOND year in the league, much less this system.

When you have to use your "starting" safety as your nickel CB due to injury, I think it speaks volumes about where they are right now in their development. I don't think they were prepared to replace Finnegan, and his level of play caught everyone by surprise.

The guy that I think could develop into the most complete safety on the current roster is Cody Davis. He has the size, speed, smarts and is most likely the best tackler of the group. He may not be the big hitter than many like to see, but for me, just get the guy to the ground and he will do that. But once again, the only think IMO, that he lacks is experience.

I said it in my previous post, and reiterate here, this organization, coaching staff, etc. has committed to the youth movement. What we seem to forget, what was the youngest team in the NFL LAST YEAR, is even younger THIS YEAR. While it would have been great to see more wins, I think the reality of the situation is, this staff looked at this year as get whatever we can get out of these kids, and let them develop for years to come.

CoachO, After all of what we as fans have been through & trying to digest what has occurred this season...I am still on board with the Ram Orgs. movement & commitment to the Youth Movement and all the pain that it has brought with it .... IMO the end gain will be worth it...the Ram Org decisions on the youth movement will be the right way to go in the long term & I am fully with them. I agree with you on safety Cody Davis as I eluded too earlier I see a smart young man who seems to be very mature beyond his years...could be a special find....seems to very coach-able & teachable. Yes this team was not prepared for the Finnegan event. As far as this youth movement we might be getting a early glimpse even to give way in the OL cadre too with this up coming draft, young vets like OG Shelley Smith & OC Tim Barnes and rookie OC/OG/OT Barrett Jones. Now question is if the Ram coaches are up to the task at hand????

 

[CGI_Ram]

A good HC finds ways to win.

Look at New England. Tell me, outside of Brady, how that offensive personnel is so special? Yet they're 10-3.

Look at New Orleans. The HC is back and they swap out the DC. Bam! 10-3.

Against that yardstick; I am disappointed in Fisher.

This defense is too HEAVILY invested to be this bad. There's no excuse for that, unless the personnel guy picked the wrong players. This was a top 15 defense last year and went backward! Not okay!

On offense; the team started 2013 with the wrong strategy. That's on the HC and OC.

I support Jeff Fisher, but there have been questionable strategies and decisions. That's gotta get fixed.