Should the Rams trade out of the first round of the NFL draft?

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BonifayRam

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https://www.pe.com/2019/04/13/kartje-should-the-rams-trade-out-of-the-first-round-of-the-nfl-draft/
Should the Rams trade out of the first round of the NFL draft?
By Ryan Kartje

Trading down in the draft has proved valuable, and the depth at a certain position could suit the Rams well
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Fourteen years ago, in a paper first published by the National Bureau of Economic Research, two economists posited that NFL teams had failed to understand the value of their top draft picks. Thousands of hours of work spent by scouting departments had made them overconfident in their own judgment.

As such, these teams routinely overvalued their highest selections – and even made irrational deals to accumulate even higher picks, when it made far more sense to do the opposite. The NFL draft’s best value, the economists found, always came from trading down.

Several NFL analytics departments took notice at the time. The Patriots, as one might expect, became masters of such draft manipulation. But most teams continued to ignore this logic entirely. In an interview, one of the paper’s authors, Richard Thaler, spoke of his experience working with Washington owner Dan Snyder, who heard Thaler out, before promptly ignoring all of his advice during the draft. Years later, in a fitting twist, Thaler would go on to win the Nobel Prize in Economics for his work in predicting irrational behavior.

“Market forces have not been strong enough to overcome these human failings,” the authors concluded.
Even smart franchises have fallen victim to these failings during draft season. Last year, the Saints traded away a future first-round pick, along with their No. 27 overall pick and fifth-rounder, to move up 13 spots to 14th overall. That pick became pass rusher Marcus Davenport, who finished with five sacks and showed some promise as a rookie. But was it enough promise to match the value of two first-round picks? Unless

Davenport becomes a perennial Pro Bowler, how could it be?

Take the Colts, for example. Last season, they moved down three spots, from third overall to sixth, netting two second-round picks in 2018 and a future second-rounder in 2019 from the Jets, who coveted USC quarterback Sam Darnold.

The jury is still out on Darnold, but there’s no denying the historic haul the Colts received in return for his draft rights. The Colts used the sixth overall pick to draft All-Pro rookie guard Quenton Nelson. Then, with back-to-back picks early in the second round, one from the Jets and the other their own, the Colts took another All-Pro – and defensive rookie of the year – linebacker Darius Leonard, followed by their starting right tackle, Braden Smith.

It almost never is. The smartest NFL teams, instead, take advantage of their overconfident peers’ worst instincts and use them to exploit inefficiencies in the market. They trick other teams into trading up, pile up future picks, and then choose a player with an almost identical chance of success as the one they would’ve drafted.

Had they stayed put, the Colts could’ve added a Pro Bowl corner in Denzel Ward or a talented pass rusher like Bradley Chubb. But by trading down just three spots, the Colts added two additional high-level starters, and in less than two weeks, they’ll add yet another. Thanks to the Jets, they also own the 34th overall pick in the upcoming draft.

The Rams are slated to pick just three slots before that. But unless one of the top prospects on their board tumbles to the end of the first, they should explore every possible option to trade down, out of the round. The Rams haven’t picked in the first round since trading up to take Jared Goff with the top overall pick in 2016. They could definitely use another first-round talent on either the defensive or offensive lines.

But by trading down a few picks, the Rams could potentially address both lines. When the Eagles traded the 32nd overall pick last season to the Ravens, they selected tight end Dallas Goedert 17 picks later, moved up seven spots in the fourth to choose a starting corner and, for good measure, added a second-round pick (53rd overall) in the 2019 draft.

The Rams don’t even have to trade down that far to add serious value. In 2017, the Seahawks moved down just four spots from No. 31 and got a fourth-round pick out of the deal.There’s no reason to think the Rams couldn’t see at least that value – and perhaps even more. Considering the team’s recent success rate with third- and fourth-round picks – receiver Cooper Kupp, safety John Johnson, linebacker Samson Ebukam, etc. – that additional selection could make a significant difference.

The difference between the 31st and 35th pick in this draft, meanwhile, could prove negligible. The draft is deep with defensive talent into the second round, and the Rams’ needs happen to correspond to where the draft is deepest – most notably, on the defensive line. It’s not unreasonable to think Clemson’s Dexter Lawrence could be available with the 34th overall pick with the 34th overall pick or that DeAndre Baker, the Georgia cornerback, could keep sliding all the way to 37.

It’s impossible to predict just how the draft will unfold, but the only true formula for drafting better players is to have more draft picks. Unless there are compensatory selections Les Snead has somehow failed to already unearth, trading down from the first round is the Rams’ most economical path to piling up those picks.
 

den-the-coach

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Well, the adage is, you must have a partner to dance and the Los Angeles Rams must have a trade partner and value in order to make a trade. Again, if the value is there and you can add an additional pick or picks, then you always consider a trade down.

What I find amazing is the number of fans, who always communicate about trading down, but I believe if your guy is there, make the damn pick. It cost the Rams back in 2012 the Rams tried to get cute as linebackers Bobby Wagner & Mychal Kendricks were still on the board in the 2nd round and the Rams could have had their choice, but they traded down for an extra pick and by the time their pick was ready at 50th, Kendricks had gone to the Eagles and Wagner to the division rival Seahawks and the Rams ended up with RB Isiah Pead and have been peeing their pants ever since.
 

Picked4td

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ehhh feel like the 5th year option is too valuable to trade out of 1st round. only way i would say yes is if theres a QB someone wants to draft at end of 1st then you might get a little more value
 

Akrasian

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ehhh feel like the 5th year option is too valuable to trade out of 1st round. only way i would say yes is if theres a QB someone wants to draft at end of 1st then you might get a little more value

Yeah, the trade value chart was devised before there was that contract gap between first rounders and everybody else. I suspect teams privately have adjusted it to raise the value of firsts a bit. That 5th year is nice - especially for picks from #11-#32, since the 5th year is a lot cheaper than for picks #1-#10.

For a few years now I've felt that the best value comes from #11 until some point in the 3rd (varying each year a bit, of course). You should be able to get a guy who is a key sub his rookie season and a starter after that, unless you really mess up your draft. Unfortunately, I don't know if the Rams can get a good third in trade for pick #31, unless they really trade down a lot. The problem is, you lose control then of getting the top players on your board - i.e., they may have several DTs highlighted, and they will all be gone.
 

nighttrain

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Well, the adage is, you must have a partner to dance and the Los Angeles Rams must have a trade partner and value in order to make a trade. Again, if the value is there and you can add an additional pick or picks, then you always consider a trade down.

What I find amazing is the number of fans, who always communicate about trading down, but I believe if your guy is there, make the damn pick. It cost the Rams back in 2012 the Rams tried to get cute as linebackers Bobby Wagner & Mychal Kendricks were still on the board in the 2nd round and the Rams could have had their choice, but they traded down for an extra pick and by the time their pick was ready at 50th, Kendricks had gone to the Eagles and Wagner to the division rival Seahawks and the Rams ended up with RB Isiah Pead and have been peeing their pants ever since.
or much more likely, the difference between Fisher running the show and what we currently enjoy is freaking humongous
train
 

Ram65

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“Market forces have not been strong enough to overcome these human failings,” the authors concluded.
Even smart franchises have fallen victim to these failings during draft season. Last year, the Saints traded away a future first-round pick, along with their No. 27 overall pick and fifth-rounder, to move up 13 spots to 14th overall. That pick became pass rusher Marcus Davenport, who finished with five sacks and showed some promise as a rookie. But was it enough promise to match the value of two first-round picks? Unless

Davenport becomes a perennial Pro Bowler, how could it be?

In this case I think it was close to an all in move after having a great draft in 2017. It was a big surprise and put a little fear in me for the 2018 season. Too bad (for them lol ) he got hurt or his numbers would have been much better. Moving forward he could become a Pro Bowler type defender. These are later first round picks they gave up.

Take the Colts, for example. Last season, they moved down three spots, from third overall to sixth, netting two second-round picks in 2018 and a future second-rounder in 2019 from the Jets, who coveted USC quarterback Sam Darnold.

Like @den-the-coach said you have to have a trade partner. It helps when your picking early and teams want a QB.

The Rams are slated to pick just three slots before that. But unless one of the top prospects on their board tumbles to the end of the first, they should explore every possible option to trade down, out of the round. The Rams haven’t picked in the first round since trading up to take Jared Goff with the top overall pick in 2016. They could definitely use another first-round talent on either the defensive or offensive lines.


The Rams don’t even have to trade down that far to add serious value. In 2017, the Seahawks moved down just four spots from No. 31 and got a fourth-round pick out of the deal.There’s no reason to think the Rams couldn’t see at least that value – and perhaps even more. Considering the team’s recent success rate with third- and fourth-round picks – receiver Cooper Kupp, safety John Johnson, linebacker Samson Ebukam, etc. – that additional selection could make a significant difference.

Yeah it depends who is on the board at the time and how they are rating the available players plus what the teams before the trade down pick are likely to pick. Rams could out think themselves because there are a lot of factors involved. It just isn't an exact science. The Rams scouting department appears to have done well over the last two drafts. I do think Snead has a good handle on things so Rams are in good hands. Can't say either way about trading down at this point it's an option.
 
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JackDRams

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Didn’t bother to read it. But the answer is maybe. If there’s nobody they’re in love with, or they feel they can get their man a few spots further down, then go for it. But it kind of depends how things go with the draft.
 

dang

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I think its rather simple. The Rams have their list of players that are too good to pass up at R1.31. If one or more of those players are available they will select with their R1.31 pick. If none of those players are available - I believe their lines will be open to discuss trade down options. If no one calls - they will pick BPA on their list.
 

kurtfaulk

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the rams made two of the best trade ups to #1 in history. big o and jared goff.

the browns traded down so many times for so many years and failed every time.

there's no right or wrong way to do it. all there is are good organisations with competent gms/talent evaluators and bad organisations with not so competent gms/talent evaluators. no matter which way they do it the good organisations will have better results than the bad organisations.

.
 

Loyal

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Well, the adage is, you must have a partner to dance and the Los Angeles Rams must have a trade partner and value in order to make a trade. Again, if the value is there and you can add an additional pick or picks, then you always consider a trade down.

What I find amazing is the number of fans, who always communicate about trading down, but I believe if your guy is there, make the damn pick. It cost the Rams back in 2012 the Rams tried to get cute as linebackers Bobby Wagner & Mychal Kendricks were still on the board in the 2nd round and the Rams could have had their choice, but they traded down for an extra pick and by the time their pick was ready at 50th, Kendricks had gone to the Eagles and Wagner to the division rival Seahawks and the Rams ended up with RB Isiah Pead and have been peeing their pants ever since.

Sometimes you just pick the best player available, instead of getting lesser players and hope they pan out with the higher risk. I trust Snead, because I think he's earned it.
 
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Hypothetical Trade with Jacksonville Jaguars:

TO JAX
RD1--#31 OVERALL....600 POINTS
RD3--#94 OVERALL....124 POINTS
RD4--#133 OVERALL....39 POINTS
TOTAL PTS TO JAX.....763 POINTS

TO LOS RAMOS
RD2--#38 OVERALL....520 POINTS
RD3--#69 OVERALL....245 POINTS
RD7--#236 OVERALL....01 POINT
TOTAL PTS TO LA...….766 POINTS

Rationale:
Rams only move down 7 spots to #38, but move up 25 spots (!!!!) to #69 overall to pick up a poorman's Late Second Rounder. Snead will insist that Jax throw in that 7th Rounder as he does not want to net fewer picks....and even though Jax pays a 3 point Premium (766 to 763) they will do it to gain the Fifth Year Option clause via the move up to #31.

So many good OLs, ERs, DTs will fall to Second Round (& early Third) IMO, when all those QBs, WRs, TEs get picked earlier on and push those PositionsOfNeed to Snead at #38 and #69.

As always, JMO.
 

12intheBox

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To me - the one thing the trade value chart does not take into account is the 5th year option. The point system predates the current CBA and that 5th year option matters.

So - should we trade down? Maybe. But we need to be winning that trade.
 

rams1fan

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Depends who is there. For instance, if D. Lawrence is there I don't think they trade out. If all the OLB, C and CB's they like are gone then I think they trade back. I think the opportunity will be there to trade back. At least one of the top 5 QB's will be on the board.
 

dang

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Hypothetical Trade with Jacksonville Jaguars:

TO JAX
RD1--#31 OVERALL....600 POINTS
RD3--#94 OVERALL....124 POINTS
RD4--#133 OVERALL....39 POINTS
TOTAL PTS TO JAX.....763 POINTS

TO LOS RAMOS
RD2--#38 OVERALL....520 POINTS
RD3--#69 OVERALL....245 POINTS
RD7--#236 OVERALL....01 POINT
TOTAL PTS TO LA...….766 POINTS

Rationale:
Rams only move down 7 spots to #38, but move up 25 spots (!!!!) to #69 overall to pick up a poorman's Late Second Rounder. Snead will insist that Jax throw in that 7th Rounder as he does not want to net fewer picks....and even though Jax pays a 3 point Premium (766 to 763) they will do it to gain the Fifth Year Option clause via the move up to #31.

So many good OLs, ERs, DTs will fall to Second Round (& early Third) IMO, when all those QBs, WRs, TEs get picked earlier on and push those PositionsOfNeed to Snead at #38 and #69.

As always, JMO.
I appreciate the potential trade analysis. I have 2 questions on this proposed trade:
1) do we think the Rams will trade down and not net an additional pick?
2) who do we think the Jags are looking to pick up to prompt them to trade up?
 
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To me, it's trying to come up from those two low-in-the-pecking-order Comp Third Rounders....which are really like high Fourth Rounders. There aren't a lot of AFC teams is possession of a high 2nd Rounder (which minimizes our drop from #31) and a pick that moves us up into the sweet-spot (my view) of the Third Round. Regarding gaining picks....maybe the SB Contender Rams are looking for "quality" versus "quantity" in this 2019 Draft? Just askin'

Re your 2nd question, Jags just dumped their longtime starting QB Bortles.....
I know they went out and paid a Kings Ransom for Nick Foles, but maybe Jax wants a backup QB better than Browns castoff Cody Kessler, who is entering his 4th year in the NFL sporting 8 career TD passes. IMO, Jax might jump back up into the First Round a la Baltimore Ravens last year, and snag a QB.....this one for developing long term.
 
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Maybe they DO trade up this year.
I just looked at draftek's mock draft and if we stay put, we get a starter at #31, Texas A&M OC Erik McCoy.....and nothing overly impressive after that IMO!
Those 2 extra Comp Third Rounders were great to have......but the one we have left to go with our original 3rd Round Pick puts us on the Edge of the Top 100.

That Jax trade just tries to boost us up into the prime of the Third Round.....as opposed to the dregs, which is where we pick, if we stay put.

I was troubled by how our OLine was ineffective in the SB and how that so adversely affected Goff's play as well as our running game. I mean, nine punts and 3 total points......sheesh!!!
To me, OG//OC remains the primary need in this Draft.
 

TSFH Fan

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So we have an entire article about applying Moneyball principles to the draft without using the term "Moneyball". It's almost like the author/editor knew that talking Moneyball would turn people off or something. Yeah, talk of valuations, value, market inefficiencies, irrational behavior, etc., it's Moneyball talk -- applied to draft capital instead of greenbacks.

And like was pointed out, the Browns, with Captain Moneyball, Paul DePodesta, in the draft room haven't really had that much draft success. The same criticisms of regular Moneyball apply here too -- e.g., as also pointed out, MoneyBall will get you a quantity of serviceable players, but not so many high quality apex predators.

Should the Rams trade out of the 1st? Too soon to tell.