Sam Bradford - Arizona and Atlanta Games Revisited

[DR RAM]

I am not saying SB is without blame here, but someone, anyone, name a QB who could have fared well under these conditions.

Can we not ask this question? Because it always come up then someone gives a list and that starts a new argument.

It seems like a cop-out to me. You can recognize the difficultly of the situation while still holding people accountable. But there are QBs who could succeed here.

I understand you concern with the "lists" and yeah, it was a cop out of sorts. I'm at work and didn't have time to provide a detailed outline of my belief that the circumstances are less than ideal.

We will just agree to disagree regarding anyone's success under these circumstances...success being subjective and all.

The circumstances are more than less than ideal. They suck. But the WRs/TEs are better than they are given credit for.

Yet, to this point, we lead the league in drops %, and total drops.
+ the receiver that is considered the best in knowing and running his routes, still is running bad routes...Austin Pettis, so what does that say about everyone else, when he is the guy that is lauded, and the one guy that Bradford said he trusts to be where he should be?

 

[jrry32]

I am not saying SB is without blame here, but someone, anyone, name a QB who could have fared well under these conditions.

Can we not ask this question? Because it always come up then someone gives a list and that starts a new argument.

It seems like a cop-out to me. You can recognize the difficultly of the situation while still holding people accountable. But there are QBs who could succeed here.

I understand you concern with the "lists" and yeah, it was a cop out of sorts. I'm at work and didn't have time to provide a detailed outline of my belief that the circumstances are less than ideal.

We will just agree to disagree regarding anyone's success under these circumstances...success being subjective and all.

The circumstances are more than less than ideal. They suck. But the WRs/TEs are better than they are given credit for.

I agree that Kendricks is greatly underappreciated. I know that Cook has great athleticism but right now I need more time to determine exactly what kind of football player he is.

I think ALL of our current WRs are talented as well but they are young and I expect to see more consistency from them going forward. The entire world seems to be up in arms about the overthrow, under inside pressure, to Pettis against SF but the drops we have seen far outnumber bad passes IMO.

Yea, Kendricks is. Only big issue is that he's about as sudden as a cruise ship. :ww:

But consistency should improve as should the drops. Still, it's noticeable that they're getting better. Even Quick is improving some.

 

[BigRamFan]

I am not saying SB is without blame here, but someone, anyone, name a QB who could have fared well under these conditions.

Can we not ask this question? Because it always come up then someone gives a list and that starts a new argument.

It seems like a cop-out to me. You can recognize the difficultly of the situation while still holding people accountable. But there are QBs who could succeed here.

I understand you concern with the "lists" and yeah, it was a cop out of sorts. I'm at work and didn't have time to provide a detailed outline of my belief that the circumstances are less than ideal.

We will just agree to disagree regarding anyone's success under these circumstances...success being subjective and all.

The circumstances are more than less than ideal. They suck. But the WRs/TEs are better than they are given credit for.

Yet, to this point, we lead the league in drops %, and total drops.

...and don't get me started on sacks, hits & hurries. :nono:

 

[BigRamFan]

I am not saying SB is without blame here, but someone, anyone, name a QB who could have fared well under these conditions.

Can we not ask this question? Because it always come up then someone gives a list and that starts a new argument.

It seems like a cop-out to me. You can recognize the difficultly of the situation while still holding people accountable. But there are QBs who could succeed here.

I understand you concern with the "lists" and yeah, it was a cop out of sorts. I'm at work and didn't have time to provide a detailed outline of my belief that the circumstances are less than ideal.

We will just agree to disagree regarding anyone's success under these circumstances...success being subjective and all.

The circumstances are more than less than ideal. They suck. But the WRs/TEs are better than they are given credit for.

I agree that Kendricks is greatly underappreciated. I know that Cook has great athleticism but right now I need more time to determine exactly what kind of football player he is.

I think ALL of our current WRs are talented as well but they are young and I expect to see more consistency from them going forward. The entire world seems to be up in arms about the overthrow, under inside pressure, to Pettis against SF but the drops we have seen far outnumber bad passes IMO.

Yea, Kendricks is. Only big issue is that he's about as sudden as a cruise ship. :ww:

But consistency should improve as should the drops. Still, it's noticeable that they're getting better. Even Quick is improving some.

Agreed!

 

[jrry32]

I am not saying SB is without blame here, but someone, anyone, name a QB who could have fared well under these conditions.

Can we not ask this question? Because it always come up then someone gives a list and that starts a new argument.

It seems like a cop-out to me. You can recognize the difficultly of the situation while still holding people accountable. But there are QBs who could succeed here.

I understand you concern with the "lists" and yeah, it was a cop out of sorts. I'm at work and didn't have time to provide a detailed outline of my belief that the circumstances are less than ideal.

We will just agree to disagree regarding anyone's success under these circumstances...success being subjective and all.

The circumstances are more than less than ideal. They suck. But the WRs/TEs are better than they are given credit for.

Yet, to this point, we lead the league in drops %, and total drops.

Aren't the Broncos #2? I wouldn't say dropped passes defines a WR corp.

 

[DR RAM]

I am not saying SB is without blame here, but someone, anyone, name a QB who could have fared well under these conditions.

Can we not ask this question? Because it always come up then someone gives a list and that starts a new argument.

It seems like a cop-out to me. You can recognize the difficultly of the situation while still holding people accountable. But there are QBs who could succeed here.

I understand you concern with the "lists" and yeah, it was a cop out of sorts. I'm at work and didn't have time to provide a detailed outline of my belief that the circumstances are less than ideal.

We will just agree to disagree regarding anyone's success under these circumstances...success being subjective and all.

The circumstances are more than less than ideal. They suck. But the WRs/TEs are better than they are given credit for.

Yet, to this point, we lead the league in drops %, and total drops.

Aren't the Broncos #2? I wouldn't say dropped passes defines a WR corp.

I didn't say it defined them, nor that it was their only problem.

 

[Warner4Prez]

Sam has plenty of time on that last one.

My thoughts on Sam from the beginning were that he looked very green. I figured he would learn as time went on and be able to make these throws by now. I guess that the look on his face is not that of being inexperienced, but more so that he just doesn't have it. Sam does not look or talk like a leader. He gives the impression of being bright eyed and bushytailed (if that makes sense to you). People are dismissive of these impressions often but I have found that over time I need to believe them. Cutler had a 'look' and he lived up to it.

Enough with the personal impressions. Sam has trust issues. He does not like to throw to WRs that he doesn't trust. He immediately looks for the guy that has not been dropping the ball. Recently this has been Pettis. In the beginning he was looking to Givens and Cook a lot. They both had some drops as did Tavon Austin and now he is down to trusting ONE wide receiver again.... a la Danny Amendola. So he locks onto his new favorite target and is very predictable.

Batted Passes- I am guessing that it must be very obvious to DLinemen to tell when Sam is about to throw. Maybe it is a look on his face that he gets or the way he holds his arm but he certainly doesn't have a quick release that is unexpected, because he gets far too many balls batted down.

Hearing footsteps- Sam obviously has reason not to trust his Oline and compound that by not trusting his WRs and there is no outlet for him. He gets scared and has nobody to turn to. This is a mental thing obviously but I am not so sure he will ever get over it.


In the end, I have given up hope that Sam will ever even be a good game manager. I don't think he has the vision or ability to process information quickly enough to be a franchise QB. I have held out hope up until the last two games. The Rams need to draft a replacement IMO.

Same. I just worry that this regime won't do it. They're talking about trying to extend Bradford already. They put all the eggs in the Bradford basket and they're probably going to go down with it. They should have drafted RG3 and traded Bradford when he still had value. They're paid to make those decisions and make sure they're the right ones and right now it's not looking good. I think they're determined to prove that it wasn't a mistake and that's just going to put this franchise back even further by passing the chance to draft a new QB while they can.

You don't think RG3's latest knee surgery and mechanics struggles would set this team back right now? Bradford has the edge on TDs and INT right now.

So... I'm a homer fanboy who doesn't know how to watch a football game (even though I was recruited by FSU as a safety). All because I have a different way of scouting Bradford that doesn't line up with yours?

Seems unlikely to me.

You saying you aren't a homer fanboy X? :whome?:

 

[jrry32]

I didn't say it defined them, nor that it was their only problem.

Point being made is that yea, they've had some dropsies but they're getting more separation than they're being given credit for...especially down the field.

 

[DR RAM]

I didn't say it defined them, nor that it was their only problem.

Point being made is that yea, they've had some dropsies but they're getting more separation than they're being given credit for...especially down the field.

Theoretically, do you think that getting pressured over 60% of the time that Bradford drops back would hamper him from being an effective QB?

 

[jrry32]

I didn't say it defined them, nor that it was their only problem.

Point being made is that yea, they've had some dropsies but they're getting more separation than they're being given credit for...especially down the field.

Theoretically, do you think that getting pressured over 60% of the time that Bradford drops back would hamper him from being an effective QB?

Both in theory and in practice, that would be true. :ww:

 

[DR RAM]

I didn't say it defined them, nor that it was their only problem.

Point being made is that yea, they've had some dropsies but they're getting more separation than they're being given credit for...especially down the field.

OK, all of the things that you probably said yourself last season, all of the issues that we tried to address: poor protection, weapons, better field position, better execution, fewer drops, bad routes, playing from behind, effective running game, better game planning.

How many of these things have we solved to this point?


I think that we would all agree that "on paper" we have potentially better weapons on offense, but Kendricks isn't himself yet, Pettis is nothing to write home about. Givens can't beat double coverage. Quick is still struggling to get on the field consistently, Tavon isn't running good routes and leads the NFL in drops, and do I need to even mention any of our RB's?

This is the last I'll say on this. I really can't make my points any stronger, unless I bold, or capitalize them :hehe:

 

[V3]

Sam has plenty of time on that last one.

My thoughts on Sam from the beginning were that he looked very green. I figured he would learn as time went on and be able to make these throws by now. I guess that the look on his face is not that of being inexperienced, but more so that he just doesn't have it. Sam does not look or talk like a leader. He gives the impression of being bright eyed and bushytailed (if that makes sense to you). People are dismissive of these impressions often but I have found that over time I need to believe them. Cutler had a 'look' and he lived up to it.

Enough with the personal impressions. Sam has trust issues. He does not like to throw to WRs that he doesn't trust. He immediately looks for the guy that has not been dropping the ball. Recently this has been Pettis. In the beginning he was looking to Givens and Cook a lot. They both had some drops as did Tavon Austin and now he is down to trusting ONE wide receiver again.... a la Danny Amendola. So he locks onto his new favorite target and is very predictable.

Batted Passes- I am guessing that it must be very obvious to DLinemen to tell when Sam is about to throw. Maybe it is a look on his face that he gets or the way he holds his arm but he certainly doesn't have a quick release that is unexpected, because he gets far too many balls batted down.

Hearing footsteps- Sam obviously has reason not to trust his Oline and compound that by not trusting his WRs and there is no outlet for him. He gets scared and has nobody to turn to. This is a mental thing obviously but I am not so sure he will ever get over it.


In the end, I have given up hope that Sam will ever even be a good game manager. I don't think he has the vision or ability to process information quickly enough to be a franchise QB. I have held out hope up until the last two games. The Rams need to draft a replacement IMO.

Same. I just worry that this regime won't do it. They're talking about trying to extend Bradford already. They put all the eggs in the Bradford basket and they're probably going to go down with it. They should have drafted RG3 and traded Bradford when he still had value. They're paid to make those decisions and make sure they're the right ones and right now it's not looking good. I think they're determined to prove that it wasn't a mistake and that's just going to put this franchise back even further by passing the chance to draft a new QB while they can.

You don't think RG3's latest knee surgery and mechanics struggles would set this team back right now? Bradford has the edge on TDs and INT right now.

So... I'm a homer fanboy who doesn't know how to watch a football game (even though I was recruited by FSU as a safety). All because I have a different way of scouting Bradford that doesn't line up with yours?

Seems unlikely to me.

You saying you aren't a homer fanboy X? :whome?:

First off, I don't think RG3 would have the knee issue if he were playing for us. He wouldn't have been asked to keep playing injured and I'm not sure he'd be asked to run as much as he did.

But let's say that he was our QB and he got the same injury. I still think he'll be a MUCH better QB than Bradford ever will be. He's already lightyears ahead of Sam with regards to staring down receivers, breaking down defenses, pump fakes, finding open guys, and going through his reads.

The problem with RG3 is that they forced him back too soon. It hasn't even been a year yet and he's playing on it. He can't get his mechanics right because his knee still isn't 100% and he doesn't trust it. It really blows my mind considering that they have a very good backup QB they could have been using while RG3 fully recovers.

 

[jrry32]

I didn't say it defined them, nor that it was their only problem.

Point being made is that yea, they've had some dropsies but they're getting more separation than they're being given credit for...especially down the field.

OK, all of the things that you probably said yourself last season, all of the issues that we tried to address: poor protection, weapons, better field position, better execution, fewer drops, bad routes, playing from behind, effective running game, better game planning.

How many of these things have we solved to this point?


I think that we would all agree that "on paper" we have potentially better weapons on offense, but Kendricks isn't himself yet, Pettis is nothing to write home about. Givens can't beat double coverage. Quick is still struggling to get on the field consistently, Tavon isn't running good routes and leads the NFL in drops, and do I need to even mention any of our RB's?

This is the last I'll say on this. I really can't make my points any stronger, unless I bold, or capitalize them :hehe:

Our weapons are better, are running fewer bad routes, and are executing their routes better. Pettis is playing a lot better than he gets credit for if you watch the coach's film.

However, protection has worsened, field position has worsened, and the running game has fallen off a cliff.

 

[DR RAM]

I didn't say it defined them, nor that it was their only problem.

Point being made is that yea, they've had some dropsies but they're getting more separation than they're being given credit for...especially down the field.

OK, all of the things that you probably said yourself last season, all of the issues that we tried to address: poor protection, weapons, better field position, better execution, fewer drops, bad routes, playing from behind, effective running game, better game planning.

How many of these things have we solved to this point?


I think that we would all agree that "on paper" we have potentially better weapons on offense, but Kendricks isn't himself yet, Pettis is nothing to write home about. Givens can't beat double coverage. Quick is still struggling to get on the field consistently, Tavon isn't running good routes and leads the NFL in drops, and do I need to even mention any of our RB's?

This is the last I'll say on this. I really can't make my points any stronger, unless I bold, or capitalize them :hehe:

Our weapons are better, are running fewer bad routes, and are executing their routes better. Pettis is playing a lot better than he gets credit for if you watch the coach's film.

However, protection has worsened, field position has worsened, and the running game has fallen off a cliff.

Fair enough, looking forward to your project on Tavon.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Nice work Jrry.

I'd love for someone to do a breakdown like this with guys like Brady. I mean, they all miss reads, open guys, and throws. The game moves too fast.

So, 2 full games or ___ pass attempts by "a star" player at this position.

Is Sam's miss-ratio really that much worse? I don't know.

 

[jrry32]

Nice work Jrry.

I'd love for someone to do a breakdown like this with guys like Brady. I mean, they all miss reads, open guys, and throws. The game moves too fast.

So, 2 full games or ___ pass attempts by "a star" player at this position.

Is Sam's miss-ratio really that much worse? I don't know.

Might be worth researching.

 

[Iron Lion]

Mr original poster,

I am interested in your take on the 4th and 20 play at around the 8-9 minute mark of the 4th quarter at Dallas. I have Game Rewind but not the coach's cameras thing like you.

 

[Stranger]

I didn't say it defined them, nor that it was their only problem.

Point being made is that yea, they've had some dropsies but they're getting more separation than they're being given credit for...especially down the field.

OK, all of the things that you probably said yourself last season, all of the issues that we tried to address: poor protection, weapons, better field position, better execution, fewer drops, bad routes, playing from behind, effective running game, better game planning.

How many of these things have we solved to this point?


I think that we would all agree that "on paper" we have potentially better weapons on offense, but Kendricks isn't himself yet, Pettis is nothing to write home about. Givens can't beat double coverage. Quick is still struggling to get on the field consistently, Tavon isn't running good routes and leads the NFL in drops, and do I need to even mention any of our RB's?

This is the last I'll say on this. I really can't make my points any stronger, unless I bold, or capitalize them :hehe:

Why have we not solved them? And who is accountable for not solving them?

 

[DR RAM]

I didn't say it defined them, nor that it was their only problem.

Point being made is that yea, they've had some dropsies but they're getting more separation than they're being given credit for...especially down the field.

OK, all of the things that you probably said yourself last season, all of the issues that we tried to address: poor protection, weapons, better field position, better execution, fewer drops, bad routes, playing from behind, effective running game, better game planning.

How many of these things have we solved to this point?


I think that we would all agree that "on paper" we have potentially better weapons on offense, but Kendricks isn't himself yet, Pettis is nothing to write home about. Givens can't beat double coverage. Quick is still struggling to get on the field consistently, Tavon isn't running good routes and leads the NFL in drops, and do I need to even mention any of our RB's?

This is the last I'll say on this. I really can't make my points any stronger, unless I bold, or capitalize them :hehe:

Why have we not solved them? And who is accountable for not solving them?

The offensive line woes seem to be a combo of declining players, guys not playing well individually, injury, and communication.

The other pieces that were acquired to help the offense...it's also a combo of things, but you have to consider that most of our skill players have less than a full year in our system, and the league. Scheme seems to be a problem, but it's hard for me to point fingers at anybody when so many things are wrong. Blocking all over the field has been a HUGE issue, not just the lineman, but down field blocking has been downright horrible.

If we could just have individuals do their job, and execute, and then come together as a team, a cohesive unit, the it would be easier to pinpoint problems and fix them. Right now, it's like a leaky boat, you patch a hole, then another leak springs up, you fix that, then the boat won't start. If you go through all the troubleshooting, maybe the conclusion is to keep fixing the old boat, or buy a new one.

 

[Stranger]

I didn't say it defined them, nor that it was their only problem.

Point being made is that yea, they've had some dropsies but they're getting more separation than they're being given credit for...especially down the field.

OK, all of the things that you probably said yourself last season, all of the issues that we tried to address: poor protection, weapons, better field position, better execution, fewer drops, bad routes, playing from behind, effective running game, better game planning.

How many of these things have we solved to this point?


I think that we would all agree that "on paper" we have potentially better weapons on offense, but Kendricks isn't himself yet, Pettis is nothing to write home about. Givens can't beat double coverage. Quick is still struggling to get on the field consistently, Tavon isn't running good routes and leads the NFL in drops, and do I need to even mention any of our RB's?

This is the last I'll say on this. I really can't make my points any stronger, unless I bold, or capitalize them :hehe:

Why have we not solved them? And who is accountable for not solving them?

The offensive line woes seem to be a combo of declining players, guys not playing well individually, injury, and communication.

The other pieces that were acquired to help the offense...it's also a combo of things, but you have to consider that most of our skill players have less than a full year in our system, and the league. Scheme seems to be a problem, but it's hard for me to point fingers at anybody when so many things are wrong. Blocking all over the field has been a HUGE issue, not just the lineman, but down field blocking has been downright horrible.

If we could just have individuals do their job, and execute, and then come together as a team, a cohesive unit, the it would be easier to pinpoint problems and fix them. Right now, it's like a leaky boat, you patch a hole, then another leak springs up, you fix that, then the boat won't start. If you go through all the troubleshooting, maybe the conclusion is to keep fixing the old boat, or buy a new one.

okay, then it is unfair for me to be looking toward the people the designed and built the boat? Is that reasonable or unreasonable?