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Next year the Seahawks will have 6 players earning $9MM or more against their cap.
We currently have 2.
Russell Wilson's and Bobby Wagner's New Deals
- Thread starter RAGRam
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Next year the Seahawks will have 6 players earning $9MM or more against their cap.
We currently have 2.
Zombie Slayer
You are entitled to nothing.
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I guess the title of this thread should be changed as to avoid another thread about Wagner's new deal.
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Done.
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Moostache
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The signings by the Seahawks may look great today (for them anyway), but the history of the NFL suggests that particular core of players is already peaked and will inexorably enter a decline period soon:
2010: NFC West Champions (at 7-9 after beating the Rams in final game of regular season when Bradford was rookie)
- won the division in a fluke year, won a playoff game by upsetting a wildly over-confident Saints team and losing in the divisional round)
2011: Missed playoffs (at 7-9 after finding a losing record couldn't get in twice...)
2012: Wild Card (11-5) beat - and pretty much ended - RG3 and the Redskins, lost divisional round to Falcons in a game they should have won...
2013: Division Title (13-3) - went on to win Super Bowl
2014: Division Title (12-4) - went on to lose Super Bowl (in a game they should have won) after making the Super Bowl (in a game they should have lost)...
2015: TBD
So why is that record indicative of a decline now? Simply put, despite putting on a brave face, that Super Bowl loss is going to gut that franchise.
The first signs are already evident - griping about money from players who already signed, handing out huge contract extensions that will limit their options in the future,m and betting big on Wilson to remain viable as the roster becomes weaker around him.
I am calling it now. The Seahawks miss the playoffs in 2015. The NFC West is going to come down to Arizona and the Rams.
Three years from now, the Seahwaks will be "moving on from Pete Carroll era" and Russel Wilson will be fighting for a roster spot.
*of course, if I actually knew any of this for a fact, I would not be posting here about it...I would be working for an NFL team! LOL@!
2010: NFC West Champions (at 7-9 after beating the Rams in final game of regular season when Bradford was rookie)
- won the division in a fluke year, won a playoff game by upsetting a wildly over-confident Saints team and losing in the divisional round)
2011: Missed playoffs (at 7-9 after finding a losing record couldn't get in twice...)
2012: Wild Card (11-5) beat - and pretty much ended - RG3 and the Redskins, lost divisional round to Falcons in a game they should have won...
2013: Division Title (13-3) - went on to win Super Bowl
2014: Division Title (12-4) - went on to lose Super Bowl (in a game they should have won) after making the Super Bowl (in a game they should have lost)...
2015: TBD
So why is that record indicative of a decline now? Simply put, despite putting on a brave face, that Super Bowl loss is going to gut that franchise.
The first signs are already evident - griping about money from players who already signed, handing out huge contract extensions that will limit their options in the future,m and betting big on Wilson to remain viable as the roster becomes weaker around him.
I am calling it now. The Seahawks miss the playoffs in 2015. The NFC West is going to come down to Arizona and the Rams.
Three years from now, the Seahwaks will be "moving on from Pete Carroll era" and Russel Wilson will be fighting for a roster spot.
*of course, if I actually knew any of this for a fact, I would not be posting here about it...I would be working for an NFL team! LOL@!
snackdaddy
Who's your snackdaddy?
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They have a good core with those 9. But there are 53 players on a roster. It takes the role players to do their jobs in order to be a winner. Will those contracts inhibit their ability to sign quality role players? And don't forget, if any of those 9 get hurt, you're down to 8 core players. What if they lost two of them for the season?
snackdaddy
Who's your snackdaddy?
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One other thing to add, in the superbowl when Lane filled in for an injury(I don't remember if it was Maxwell), the Pats targeted him a lot. With success. Seemed to be a big drop from the started to the backup.
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/03/seahawks-cant-pay-many-any-more-guys/
Seahawks can’t pay many (any) more guys
Posted by Mike Florio on August 3, 2015
Agent Russell Okung has his work cut out for him, if his goal is to keep his client in Seattle.
Peter King of TheMMQB.com has a sobering stat for the week, relating to the Seahawks. He shows that the franchise has nearly $100 million per year tied up in only 10 guys. That leaves roughly $50 million (in 2015) for paying the other 43 guys on the 53-man roster, along with all the other extra players who need to be signed as members of the active roster land on injured reserve.
Five of those players now have eight-figure annual averages, up from three only three days ago. Quarterback Russell Wilson’s average burden increased by an order of magnitude (nerd), from $1.542 million to $17.82 million. Cornerback Richard Sherman remains at $14 million per year, running back Marshawn Lynch moves to $10.8 million for 2015, linebacker Bobby Wagner has increased to $10.75 million (another order-of-magnitude move), and safety Earl Thomas remains at $10 million even.
Behind them are tight end Jimmy Graham ($9 million), defensive end Cliff Avril ($7.13 million), defensive end Michael Bennett ($7.13 million), safety Kam Chancellor ($7 million), and linebacker K.J. Wright ($6.75 million).
Bennett skipped much of the offseason program in an effort to get more money, and Chancellor was a surprise holdout for the start of training camp. Three days in, the holdout continues.
And that’s where team goals and individual needs conflict. Players always should go for every last dollar during careers of limited duration, even if the pursuit of every last dollar could land the player (or some of his teammates, like Tony McDaniel) elsewhere.
“You’ve only got so much [cap room],” Sherman said Sunday, via Bob Condotta of theSeattle Times. “If it was like baseball we’d have quite a team.”
They still have quite a team. The challenge will be holding that team all together as guys clamor to get compensation that better reflects their perceived value, commitment, and sacrifice.
“He has taken a stand and I support him,” Sherman said regarding Chancellor. “He’s like a brother to me and when you take a stand like this, you don’t get a lot of support from the fans about honoring contracts. But we understand the things he goes through week in and week out and the trauma he puts his body through and the sacrifices he makes.”
Sherman pointed out that players constantly face very real risk of injury, and that Chancellor played in the Super Bowl with an MCL that was “80 percent torn.”
“It’s a 100 percent injury rate, as they have said so eloquently time after time,” Sherman said. “But that’s what you play for, guys play to win because we obviously play to win. The compensation is just something that comes with it and guys appreciate compensation, guys appreciate being taken care of.
“But there is always more. Kam is making $4.5 million this year. I mean, you can go down the list of guys making more than Kam Chancellor this year that are not better than Kam Chancellor in any way, stretch or form. But that’s unfortunate. So hopefully they can come together on some number.”
If they do, it’ll reduce the number available for the other 43 guys who make the 53-man roster. Which will force the Seahawks to rely on plenty of younger guys with low fixed incomes via the rookie wage scale, who eventually will be in position to earn more money from the Seahawks or someone else after putting in three or four years of high-level performance.
Of course, if/when that happens there’s a chance that the Seahawks will choose the younger stars over some of the 10 players currently accounting for nearly $100 million in cap space.
Seahawks can’t pay many (any) more guys
Posted by Mike Florio on August 3, 2015
Agent Russell Okung has his work cut out for him, if his goal is to keep his client in Seattle.
Peter King of TheMMQB.com has a sobering stat for the week, relating to the Seahawks. He shows that the franchise has nearly $100 million per year tied up in only 10 guys. That leaves roughly $50 million (in 2015) for paying the other 43 guys on the 53-man roster, along with all the other extra players who need to be signed as members of the active roster land on injured reserve.
Five of those players now have eight-figure annual averages, up from three only three days ago. Quarterback Russell Wilson’s average burden increased by an order of magnitude (nerd), from $1.542 million to $17.82 million. Cornerback Richard Sherman remains at $14 million per year, running back Marshawn Lynch moves to $10.8 million for 2015, linebacker Bobby Wagner has increased to $10.75 million (another order-of-magnitude move), and safety Earl Thomas remains at $10 million even.
Behind them are tight end Jimmy Graham ($9 million), defensive end Cliff Avril ($7.13 million), defensive end Michael Bennett ($7.13 million), safety Kam Chancellor ($7 million), and linebacker K.J. Wright ($6.75 million).
Bennett skipped much of the offseason program in an effort to get more money, and Chancellor was a surprise holdout for the start of training camp. Three days in, the holdout continues.
And that’s where team goals and individual needs conflict. Players always should go for every last dollar during careers of limited duration, even if the pursuit of every last dollar could land the player (or some of his teammates, like Tony McDaniel) elsewhere.
“You’ve only got so much [cap room],” Sherman said Sunday, via Bob Condotta of theSeattle Times. “If it was like baseball we’d have quite a team.”
They still have quite a team. The challenge will be holding that team all together as guys clamor to get compensation that better reflects their perceived value, commitment, and sacrifice.
“He has taken a stand and I support him,” Sherman said regarding Chancellor. “He’s like a brother to me and when you take a stand like this, you don’t get a lot of support from the fans about honoring contracts. But we understand the things he goes through week in and week out and the trauma he puts his body through and the sacrifices he makes.”
Sherman pointed out that players constantly face very real risk of injury, and that Chancellor played in the Super Bowl with an MCL that was “80 percent torn.”
“It’s a 100 percent injury rate, as they have said so eloquently time after time,” Sherman said. “But that’s what you play for, guys play to win because we obviously play to win. The compensation is just something that comes with it and guys appreciate compensation, guys appreciate being taken care of.
“But there is always more. Kam is making $4.5 million this year. I mean, you can go down the list of guys making more than Kam Chancellor this year that are not better than Kam Chancellor in any way, stretch or form. But that’s unfortunate. So hopefully they can come together on some number.”
If they do, it’ll reduce the number available for the other 43 guys who make the 53-man roster. Which will force the Seahawks to rely on plenty of younger guys with low fixed incomes via the rookie wage scale, who eventually will be in position to earn more money from the Seahawks or someone else after putting in three or four years of high-level performance.
Of course, if/when that happens there’s a chance that the Seahawks will choose the younger stars over some of the 10 players currently accounting for nearly $100 million in cap space.
Dieter the Brock
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Alan
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/02/carroll-on-cutting-mcdaniel-this-decision-sucks/
Carroll on cutting McDaniel: “This decision sucks”
Earlier today, multiple reports (including ours) indicated that the Seahawks cut defensive tackle Tony McDaniel for cap purposes following the signing of quarterback Russell Wilson and linebacker Bobby Wagner to new contracts. In discussing the move with the media on Sunday, coach Pete Carroll said nothing to dispute that.
“It is a significant loss,” Carroll said, via comments distributed by the team. “Tony [McDaniel] has been a really good core player for us, and we really liked him and what he’s brought to our club. This decision sucks, but you know we had to do something, and so maybe there’s a chance we can get him back someday, I don’t know how that will work. Unfortunately, that’s what had to happen today.”
With McDaniel gone, Carroll mentioned several guys who have an opportunity to step up in his absence.
‘It’s always about opportunity,” Carroll said. “Opportunity knocked for a bunch of guys on this one. Tony’s done a lot of playing for us. So as has always been the case, we’re heralding these guys as they come through this thing, and waiting to see who’s going to rise up, and we’re looking for it. David King has a chance and of courseJordan Hill has a chance to rise up. All of the fellas in there, [Demarcus] Dobbs, and all these guys have done a nice job to position themselves, and here the competition opportunity presents itself.”
For Carroll and the Seahawks, competition has always been the key. As more and more players who have competed at a high level reap the rewards, others who have competed well will be moving on, opening more chances for others to compete.
It’s a delicate balance that becomes no easier to strike when two key players go from making six figures to making eight figures.
It’s a delicate balance that becomes no easier to strike when two key players go from making six figures to making eight figures.
Carroll on cutting McDaniel: “This decision sucks”
Earlier today, multiple reports (including ours) indicated that the Seahawks cut defensive tackle Tony McDaniel for cap purposes following the signing of quarterback Russell Wilson and linebacker Bobby Wagner to new contracts. In discussing the move with the media on Sunday, coach Pete Carroll said nothing to dispute that.
“It is a significant loss,” Carroll said, via comments distributed by the team. “Tony [McDaniel] has been a really good core player for us, and we really liked him and what he’s brought to our club. This decision sucks, but you know we had to do something, and so maybe there’s a chance we can get him back someday, I don’t know how that will work. Unfortunately, that’s what had to happen today.”
With McDaniel gone, Carroll mentioned several guys who have an opportunity to step up in his absence.
‘It’s always about opportunity,” Carroll said. “Opportunity knocked for a bunch of guys on this one. Tony’s done a lot of playing for us. So as has always been the case, we’re heralding these guys as they come through this thing, and waiting to see who’s going to rise up, and we’re looking for it. David King has a chance and of courseJordan Hill has a chance to rise up. All of the fellas in there, [Demarcus] Dobbs, and all these guys have done a nice job to position themselves, and here the competition opportunity presents itself.”
For Carroll and the Seahawks, competition has always been the key. As more and more players who have competed at a high level reap the rewards, others who have competed well will be moving on, opening more chances for others to compete.
It’s a delicate balance that becomes no easier to strike when two key players go from making six figures to making eight figures.
It’s a delicate balance that becomes no easier to strike when two key players go from making six figures to making eight figures.
Mikey Ram
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In general Albatross news, read that DeSean Jackson basically said that he owns Revis and Sherman...Will be interesting to see how well he lives up to the "I can't be covered" comment..He's terrific for sure, but I always wonder why a guy wants to paint a bullseye on himself then wonder why he finds a bunch of arrows sticking out of him...
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http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/08/06/russell-wilson-seattle-seahawks-new-contract-nfl
Inside Russell Wilson’s Deal
The contract is finally signed. Now for the breakdown of what it means for Wilson and his Seahawks supporting cast going forward
by Andrew Brandt
Robert Beck for Sports Illustrated
A deadline—real or perceived—spurred the action that ended the most intriguing contract negotiation of the 2015 offseason, as the Seahawks secured Russell Wilson for four additional years beyond this season (for which he was already under contract). After months of stop and start negotiations that seemed destined for a dead end, the deadline of training camp produced some common ground (imagine that).
As I wrote last month, the question to me was always whether Wilson and agent Mark Rodgers would resist the temptation to jump at a cash number for 2015 that would dwarf the scheduled $1.5 million, while terms beyond this year would necessarily be to the team’s advantage. With the number reaching $31.7 million he jumped; and yes, the rest of the contract is structured just as the Seahawks wanted. However, although the risk shifts to Wilson after this year, the Seahawks’ future salary cap limitations will force them to come to Wilson again and again for cap help, giving him some power in the relationship.
Here are my thoughts on the positives of the deal for each side.
Wins for Wilson
1. With Wilson’s existing $1.5 million salary, this contract was never going to compare favorably with deals for other quarterbacks who signed extensions while scheduled to earn far more in their contract year. The flip side of that low starting point, though, is that Wilson’s “new money” is strong. As an example, while Cam Newton’s recent extension calls for $67 million over the first three years compared to Wilson’s $57 million, his starting point was $14.67 million (compared to Wilson’s $1.5 million), giving Wilson the advantage in new money. We will soon see extensions for players such as Eli Manning and Philip Rivers zoom past Wilson in terms of overall value, but their starting point will be much higher.
2. The $31 million bonus is a major commitment from the Seahawks, on par with recent bonuses for players such as Drew Brees ($37 million), Tom Brady ($30 million) and Joe Flacco ($29 million), who were all due double-digit millions pre-extension. I expected the Seahawks to put around $25 million in front of Wilson to get the deal done (their bonus offer was $18 million a few days before the deadline); the $31 million bonus is a nice win for the player.
3. Wilson was able to avoid a sixth year on the contract—a fifth extension year—giving him another bite at the free agency apple a year earlier when his value should be many times more than it is now. With continued performance as he has had, the Seahawks should be approaching him on a new contract in three years.
4. While the Seahawks preserved short-term Cap flexibility with a structure heavy in proratable signing bonus ($31 million) and light in salary ($700,000), they have created problems in the long-term. Wilson’s Cap hit will now jump over $11 million from this year to next year alone, about the same number many are projecting for the rise of the overall team cap. This gives him some leverage as the team will certainly come to him in February, and future Februarys, to restructure for more cap room.
5. Wilson’s is a rare NFL contract with guaranteed money ($4.9 million, assuming he is on the roster) into the fourth year of his contract. Many veteran deals guarantee the first two years, some guarantee into the third but only a handful have any guaranteed money into the fourth year. As an example, Darrelle Revis, celebrated as having success contractually and having free agent leverage in March, has no guaranteed money past the third year of his deal.
6. One more note I’ve learned about the Wilson contract: There is no “Jameis” language; not a single word prohibiting Wilson from playing baseball. So just in case it ever looks like football isn’t going to work out for him…
Wins for the Seahawks
1. They were never going to get Wilson signed at this price again... ever. Yes, there is risk of injury or downturn in performance, but what is the likelihood of that? If this deal got to next year and the Seahawks applied a $20 million-plus franchise tag, that negotiation would not resemble this one. The most important number in this negotiation was $1.5 million, the existing salary for Wilson pre-extension. The leverage of an undervalued rookie contract saved them tens of millions.
2. Despite being owned by one of the richest men in the world, the Seahawks successfully resisted fully guaranteeing any money beyond the signing bonus, maintaining a team-friendly “stair-step” guarantee structure that, at this moment, has only injury guarantees past this season. They can now enter any future negotiation telling the agent and player that Wilson has this structure, end of discussion.
3. As to the lack of full guarantees past this season, yes, the chances of the team moving on from Wilson next year are miniscule. However, contract negotiations are about allocation of risk, at all levels, and the Seahawks have allocated the risk of the latter four years of this deal, whatever level of risk that is, to Wilson.
4. The structure of maximizing cap room in the present has already paid off for the Seahawks, as they were able to bring Bobby Wagner under contract with their remaining cap space. However, cap-friendly now = cap-unfriendly later. As noted above, most or all of the Seahawks’ team cap increase for 2016 just got used up. However, the team now has a happy quarterback who seems willing to help them move cap room around when they inevitably come to him in the spring.
5. Wilson is the face of the franchise and presents as everything that management wants, on and off the field. Contract instability would have clouded the season for the Seahawks. Of course, they knew that and responded accordingly when they had to: at the deadline.
I must admit that secretly, as an analyst on the business of football, I did not want this deal to happen. It would have been a much more interesting negotiation with a starting point of a $20 million-plus Franchise Tag next year, a stage set for a groundbreaking contract in terms of overall value and (full) guarantee. Ultimately, contract negotiations are not about “how good” a player is; they are about where a player is contractually at the time of negotiation and the leverage points for each side. Alas, my lonely eyes turn to Andrew Luck for that game-changing deal.
• Questions or comments? Email us at talkback@themmqb.com.
Inside Russell Wilson’s Deal
The contract is finally signed. Now for the breakdown of what it means for Wilson and his Seahawks supporting cast going forward
by Andrew Brandt
Robert Beck for Sports Illustrated
A deadline—real or perceived—spurred the action that ended the most intriguing contract negotiation of the 2015 offseason, as the Seahawks secured Russell Wilson for four additional years beyond this season (for which he was already under contract). After months of stop and start negotiations that seemed destined for a dead end, the deadline of training camp produced some common ground (imagine that).
As I wrote last month, the question to me was always whether Wilson and agent Mark Rodgers would resist the temptation to jump at a cash number for 2015 that would dwarf the scheduled $1.5 million, while terms beyond this year would necessarily be to the team’s advantage. With the number reaching $31.7 million he jumped; and yes, the rest of the contract is structured just as the Seahawks wanted. However, although the risk shifts to Wilson after this year, the Seahawks’ future salary cap limitations will force them to come to Wilson again and again for cap help, giving him some power in the relationship.
Here are my thoughts on the positives of the deal for each side.
Wins for Wilson
1. With Wilson’s existing $1.5 million salary, this contract was never going to compare favorably with deals for other quarterbacks who signed extensions while scheduled to earn far more in their contract year. The flip side of that low starting point, though, is that Wilson’s “new money” is strong. As an example, while Cam Newton’s recent extension calls for $67 million over the first three years compared to Wilson’s $57 million, his starting point was $14.67 million (compared to Wilson’s $1.5 million), giving Wilson the advantage in new money. We will soon see extensions for players such as Eli Manning and Philip Rivers zoom past Wilson in terms of overall value, but their starting point will be much higher.
2. The $31 million bonus is a major commitment from the Seahawks, on par with recent bonuses for players such as Drew Brees ($37 million), Tom Brady ($30 million) and Joe Flacco ($29 million), who were all due double-digit millions pre-extension. I expected the Seahawks to put around $25 million in front of Wilson to get the deal done (their bonus offer was $18 million a few days before the deadline); the $31 million bonus is a nice win for the player.
3. Wilson was able to avoid a sixth year on the contract—a fifth extension year—giving him another bite at the free agency apple a year earlier when his value should be many times more than it is now. With continued performance as he has had, the Seahawks should be approaching him on a new contract in three years.
4. While the Seahawks preserved short-term Cap flexibility with a structure heavy in proratable signing bonus ($31 million) and light in salary ($700,000), they have created problems in the long-term. Wilson’s Cap hit will now jump over $11 million from this year to next year alone, about the same number many are projecting for the rise of the overall team cap. This gives him some leverage as the team will certainly come to him in February, and future Februarys, to restructure for more cap room.
5. Wilson’s is a rare NFL contract with guaranteed money ($4.9 million, assuming he is on the roster) into the fourth year of his contract. Many veteran deals guarantee the first two years, some guarantee into the third but only a handful have any guaranteed money into the fourth year. As an example, Darrelle Revis, celebrated as having success contractually and having free agent leverage in March, has no guaranteed money past the third year of his deal.
6. One more note I’ve learned about the Wilson contract: There is no “Jameis” language; not a single word prohibiting Wilson from playing baseball. So just in case it ever looks like football isn’t going to work out for him…
Wins for the Seahawks
1. They were never going to get Wilson signed at this price again... ever. Yes, there is risk of injury or downturn in performance, but what is the likelihood of that? If this deal got to next year and the Seahawks applied a $20 million-plus franchise tag, that negotiation would not resemble this one. The most important number in this negotiation was $1.5 million, the existing salary for Wilson pre-extension. The leverage of an undervalued rookie contract saved them tens of millions.
2. Despite being owned by one of the richest men in the world, the Seahawks successfully resisted fully guaranteeing any money beyond the signing bonus, maintaining a team-friendly “stair-step” guarantee structure that, at this moment, has only injury guarantees past this season. They can now enter any future negotiation telling the agent and player that Wilson has this structure, end of discussion.
3. As to the lack of full guarantees past this season, yes, the chances of the team moving on from Wilson next year are miniscule. However, contract negotiations are about allocation of risk, at all levels, and the Seahawks have allocated the risk of the latter four years of this deal, whatever level of risk that is, to Wilson.
4. The structure of maximizing cap room in the present has already paid off for the Seahawks, as they were able to bring Bobby Wagner under contract with their remaining cap space. However, cap-friendly now = cap-unfriendly later. As noted above, most or all of the Seahawks’ team cap increase for 2016 just got used up. However, the team now has a happy quarterback who seems willing to help them move cap room around when they inevitably come to him in the spring.
5. Wilson is the face of the franchise and presents as everything that management wants, on and off the field. Contract instability would have clouded the season for the Seahawks. Of course, they knew that and responded accordingly when they had to: at the deadline.
I must admit that secretly, as an analyst on the business of football, I did not want this deal to happen. It would have been a much more interesting negotiation with a starting point of a $20 million-plus Franchise Tag next year, a stage set for a groundbreaking contract in terms of overall value and (full) guarantee. Ultimately, contract negotiations are not about “how good” a player is; they are about where a player is contractually at the time of negotiation and the leverage points for each side. Alas, my lonely eyes turn to Andrew Luck for that game-changing deal.
• Questions or comments? Email us at talkback@themmqb.com.
Ram65
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Hags got very top heavy which is good for the Rams.They have been able to add valuable key plays every year in free agency. Not anymore!
The Rams Demoff has done a great job paying players earlier in contracts and rotating yearly high cap hits for them. He will have his hands full soon. Hope he keeps the magic going!