Roughing the passer.

[Psycho_X]

NFL needs to get a handle on the roughing the passer rule. Now, I hate Clay Mathews and obviously am fine with them not penalizing Suh yesterday but I fail to see the difference between the two. Amazingly, the penalty while tackling with your helmet hasn't been a big deal so far this season like everyone thought it was. But the wrapping of QBs in bubble wrap is causing quite the variety in how refs call what is or isn't a penalty.


View: https://twitter.com/YourSports/status/1043954457191616512


View: https://twitter.com/AlexGelhar/status/1043989850481987584

 

[JonRam99]

Ya they both shoulda been flagged. Clay Matthews is a QB spearer & overall nasty player. If the Rams somehow wound up with him thru F/A I might not even watch when the Rams D takes the field. Suh you can see doesn't lower his head, and pats Rivers when he gets up. Clay lowered his head on the play & hits Alex on his throwing shoulder.

 

[shaunpinney]

Clay leaps and aims high with head and shoulder - Suh wraps body to body and as @JonRam99 says gets up and pats Rivers as they both get up...

 

[Psycho_X]

Ya they both shoulda been flagged. Clay Matthews is a QB spearer & overall nasty player. If the Rams somehow wound up with him thru F/A I might not even watch when the Rams D takes the field. Suh you can see doesn't lower his head, and pats Rivers when he gets up. Clay lowered his head on the play & hits Alex on his throwing shoulder.

I agree about Matthews usually deserving it but I don't see it on the one from yesterday. The ones he had the last couple of weeks he leaned his body into it when going down and drove the QB into the ground but here he is just simply making the tackle. It looks bad because Smith wasn't prepared for it and standing still. So not sure what else he could have done here. Only way to not make it look violent is to slow down which just isn't possible in football.

 

[Psycho_X]

Clay leaps and aims high with head and shoulder - Suh wraps body to body and as @JonRam99 says gets up and pats Rivers as they both get up...

I mean, he hits him shoulder to shoulder with head to the side. He can't hit him shoulder to gut cause that would be spearing, can't hit him below waist cause that's going low, and can't touch his helmet at all. I just don't see any other option for Mathews on this hit. Suh wasn't heading full speed he just kind of grabs Rivers next to him. There's a big difference in momentum there.

 

[JonRam99]

I mean, he hits him shoulder to shoulder with head to the side. He can't hit him shoulder to gut cause that would be spearing, can't hit him below waist cause that's going low, and can't touch his helmet at all. I just don't see any other option for Mathews on this hit. Suh wasn't heading full speed he just kind of grabs Rivers next to him. There's a big difference in momentum there.

Ya I get what you're saying. I'm still peeved at his hit on Keenum (Foles?) when they were in horns & wearing my 'angry eyes' when I watch Matthews play. Either way, If I'm an official & I watched both plays, I'd flag Matthews before Suh.

 

[-X-]

The rationale on the Matthews penalty, as I understand it, is that Matthews drove the QB into the ground with his bodyweight. Like when you pick the guy up, tilt your shoulders to the ground, and drive him into the turf. He didn’t necessarily do that, but it looked like he sorta did. It’s a judgement call, and these refs are gonna err on the side of the QB. Suh’s Sack wasn’t like that, though he made no effort to keep his bodyweight from being all over Rivers when they landed. I think the refs are looking for intent to harm, and again, it’s all judgement. There is no real standard on nuance. If it looks like intentional harm, then it is.

 

[RhodyRams]

Rivers turned into a runner and was close to line of scrimmage

No flag was the correct call

 

[Psycho_X]

The rationale on the Matthews penalty, as I understand it, is that Matthews drove the QB into the ground with his bodyweight. Like when you pick the guy up, tilt your shoulders to the ground, and drive him into the turf. He didn’t necessarily do that, but it looked like he sorta did. It’s a judgement call, and these refs are gonna err on the side of the QB. Suh’s Sack wasn’t like that, though he made no effort to keep his bodyweight from being all over Rivers when they landed. I think the refs are looking for intent to harm, and again, it’s all judgement. There is no real standard on nuance. If it looks like intentional harm, then it is.

Using that judgement no one who breaks free unimpeded to the QB will ever be able to hit them again without drawing a flag. I understand what everyone is saying but I just don't see how Mathews could have done anything else on that play. A person unimpeded to the QB is going to violently hit them, it's just physics. So everyone needs to slow down now enough to not make it violent looking? It's impossible. Not arguing with you because I understand. I guess they just need to hit the QB and hope they fall down without following through with the tackle. That won't work on a Cam Newton. Just another tough situation they've put refs and defenders in.

Rivers turned into a runner and was close to line of scrimmage

No flag was the correct call

I agree, no flag was the correct call.

 

[-X-]

So everyone needs to slow down now enough to not make it violent looking?

Pretty much.

 

[Loyal]

I've seen Donald grab RW and another, and swing the like a rag doll to the ground. This must be allowed, until the QB's arm comes off...

 

[Flint]

I don’t think Rivers was attempting to throw at that point, he was behind the line so it was a sack but he was trying to escape the pocket.
They’re trying to prevent when the defender would lift up the qb and fall on him with their entire weight. Now they’re going to an extreme, Rogers gets hurt often and now they’re overreacting just like they did with Brady when he blew out his knee.

 

[RhodyRams]

Kind of ironic that the rule was created because of the Rodgers injury last year, but its affecting the Packers the most thus far this season

 

[UKram]

Honestly they should just send out QBS with a redshrit on and employ another official to shout sack and throw a white flag when the QB is "sacked" matthews hit wasnt dirty its was a solid sack ..

 

[OldSchool]

And then there is this. Game is saying Hayes tore his cal in an attempt to not sack the QB too roughly.


View: https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamHBeasley/status/1044247838673313792

 

[dieterbrock]

I wonder how all the lineman that are dealing with CTE issues feel about how unfair it is to tackle a QB

 

[Psycho_X]

And according to Ed Hocuhli it was text book roughing because Matthews weight landed on the QB. You have to roll away after hitting them some how. So again, Suh's sack should have been a penalty because his whole weight landed on the QB. If you're going by the strict sense of the rule "no weight on the QB". It shouldn't be in my eyes but based on rules Suh's weight fell onto Rivers. So be prepared for that to be a penalty if the ref so chooses. Rules that cause refs to make judgement calls are never good.


https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-clay-matthews-hit-alex-002540306.html

The NFL’s new focus on roughing the passer has once again created a Sunday evening ruckus. And, once again, Packers linebacker Clay Matthews is smack dab in the middle of it all.

But the NFL insists that today’s call — a penalty arising from Matthews landing on Washington quarterback Alex Smith with all or most of his body weight — was the right call. Former NFL referee, and current NFL consultant, Ed Hocuhli explained the reasoning to PFT by phone, not long before the start of this week’s edition of Football Night in America.

Calling it a “textbook” case of roughing, Hochuli said that the hit by Matthews falls squarely within the point of emphasis regarding the roughing passer foul, as it relates to the placement of all or most of the defender’s body weight on the passer.

“They’ve been calling it this way for six weeks,” Hochuli said. “It’s as clear of an example of roughing the passer as you could have.”

So what should Matthews have done differently? Hochuli said that the solution is simple. Matthews had two steps before hitting Smith. The league expects Matthews in that situation to hit him and roll to the side, landing with Matthews’ body weight on the ground, not on the passer.

“If I could show an example of fully body weight on a passer,” Hochuli said, “that would be the play.”

Players, coaches, fans, and media may not like it that way, but that’s the way it is. The league has decided to protect its quarterbacks, because the league knows that the quality of the product suffers greatly when the best quarterbacks aren’t on the field.

 

[Jacobarch]

The NFL needs to stop letting people that have never played the game set the rules.

 

[UKram]

The league has decided to protect its quarterbacks, because the league knows that the quality of the product suffers greatly when the best quarterbacks aren’t on the field.

And the game will suffer more when they turn it into flag football

 

[bwdenverram]

I get trying to protect QB's, I really do. But this has become so silly. These are plays guys have been doing since they were in HS. The league needs to be realistic before it completely ruins the game. Two of Clay's sacks were about as normal as you can get yet game changers. Even if that sack was on Goff I would think it's clean. It's football for crying out loud, not two hand touch.