Rams WR situation

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Mackeyser

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I dunno that anyone else thinks this, but there is a question with Gordon.

He's NEVER been popped for MJ as a pro. So he's not "addicted" to MJ.

He got a DUI and then had a few drinks after the season that he thought incorrectly was permitted.

He got popped on a codeine based cough syrup that was prescribed.

I think he had more issues with immaturity than addiction, per se, although I am heartened that he got treatment rather than play in 2016.

Part of treatment is learning how to live sober. It seems to me that he may have needed that education more than he needed to defeat an addiction.

Anyone who's been addicted to something knows there's a difference.
 

Zodi

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Well, Gordon found a way because he ended up kicked out of two colleges, kicked out of the NFL, and in rehab. I don't much care what you'd prefer. The CBA is the CBA. Fair or not, he knows the rules. I'd rather have our players on the field than suspended.

You're absolutely nuts if you'd give up a third for him. Then again, people were saying the same thing last year and the year before. Why should I expect anything to change?

You must be fun at parties. "I dont care what you prefer." Lighten up, kiddo. The CBA is horseshit. I'd be stoned and drunk all the time if I played for the Browns, too.

Dude is talented, that's all there is to it. And our receiving corps has been void of his level of talent since Torry Holt left for Jacksonville.

I think his issue is by far a maturity one, and not an addiction; I've personally never met or even heard of anyone addicted to marijuana, as it's not a physically addictive drug.
 

Mackeyser

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You must be fun at parties. "I dont care what you prefer." Lighten up, kiddo. The CBA is horseshit. I'd be stoned and drunk all the time if I played for the Browns, too.

Dude is talented, that's all there is to it. And our receiving corps has been void of his level of talent since Torry Holt left for Jacksonville.

I think his issue is by far a maturity one, and not an addiction; I've personally never met or even heard of anyone addicted to marijuana, as it's not a physically addictive drug.

As per my previous post, I agree about the immaturity.

For the record, it is possibly to be behaviorally addicted. That's very different from having a chemical dependency, which most people equate with "addiction", but a behavioral addiction can be pretty bad, too. Ask any addicted gamer...
 

OldSchool

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I dunno that anyone else thinks this, but there is a question with Gordon.

He's NEVER been popped for MJ as a pro. So he's not "addicted" to MJ.

He got a DUI and then had a few drinks after the season that he thought incorrectly was permitted.

He got popped on a codeine based cough syrup that was prescribed.

I think he had more issues with immaturity than addiction, per se, although I am heartened that he got treatment rather than play in 2016.

Part of treatment is learning how to live sober. It seems to me that he may have needed that education more than he needed to defeat an addiction.

Anyone who's been addicted to something knows there's a difference.
While he was never suspended for MJ he did actually fail tests that's what put him in the NFL's testing program that he got "popped" for the alcohol use.
 

InnovatedMind

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History. They just don't want anymore interactions with him.

I've advocated for him on his talent.

I'll put it this way... I've got kids with the same issues, but thankfully not nearly to his degree, which is... his "I figured" is busted. Any statement he'd make in his head or out loud was generally wrong off the football field. The reason I've been more emphatic lately about his chances is that after looking really good in 2016 preseason, he realized this and did some intensive in-patient rehab to help repair some of that.

Even when looking at his 2016 preseason, there aren't 5 WRs in the NFL who have his combination of speed, hands, route running ability and best of all, his ability to adjust to the ball while boxing out the defender. He might be the best in the league at that bit.

I mean, when he gained over 1600 yards in 14 games, if you actually look at the passes he caught, FAR TOO MANY were badly inaccurate passes where it was solely Josh Gordon's catch radius that makes that play a great play.

Now, I'm not trying to be belligerent about this like @InnovatedMind (sorry, brother, but we're all just talking and your advocacy is a bit "in your face"), but I do agree that both his level of talent is undeniable, his ability elevates the QB he's playing with by a large margin and, as I've said repeatedly, it seems like he's turned the corner on his issues.

Josh Gordon is EXACTLY the kind of next level of talent that the Patriots will send a 5th or 6th rounder for and use him and his superlative talents to win another Championship while the rest of the league says, "who knew?"

Sorry. It's just not that hard to figure out. If he's as squared away as his agent says, (and again, it would be career suicide for both the agent and Gordon if his agent were lying about his sobriety and seriousness about Football), then it's incumbent on teams to take advantage of this.

The Patriots are constantly taking advantage of stuff like this. Heck, they picked up Michael Floyd from AZ and while he wasn't fully in the mix, he threw some excellent blocks and contributed to their run. People said Randy Moss was done or at the very least wasn't worth the heartache and he had a record setting year with the Pats.

I'm done...done, done, done with the Pats being the only team that takes advantage of prime opportunities. IF... IF Gordon is squared away like it seems (and I know many don't buy it and that's fine), but IF he's squared away, he's the kind of difference maker that Goff in his second year and his first in this new offense would desperately need to gain the confidence he needs to become the franchise QB he can be.

Woods is very good, but the combo of Woods and Gordon for our young QB would be next level. Add in Tavon, Higbee, Cooper and let's not forget Gurley and Goff would have all the weapons he needs AND an offense in which to fully utilize them.

Everyone has their opinion. Belligerent for defending and sharing viewpoints is laughable. Sorry not sorry, it wasn't your place. Couldn't care less though :)
 
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jrry32

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You must be fun at parties. "I dont care what you prefer." Lighten up, kiddo. The CBA is horseshit. I'd be stoned and drunk all the time if I played for the Browns, too.

Dude is talented, that's all there is to it. And our receiving corps has been void of his level of talent since Torry Holt left for Jacksonville.

I think his issue is by far a maturity one, and not an addiction; I've personally never met or even heard of anyone addicted to marijuana, as it's not a physically addictive drug.

The truth is the truth. Your preferences are irrelevant here (your preference that Gordon smoke marijuana rather than take pills to deal with injuries). The NFL tests and punishes for marijuana. Whether or not they are right to do that, it's the rules.

I don't care how talented you are if you aren't available to play. Justin Blackmon is also talented; he's also never going to play in the NFL again.

I'm fine with the Rams acquiring Gordon, but they'd be absolute fools to give up a third round pick for him.

Something doesn't have to be physically addicting for a person to become dependent on it. You can become addicted to marijuana, just like you can become addicted to porn, sex, gaming, etc.
 

jrry32

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Sorry. It's just not that hard to figure out. If he's as squared away as his agent says, (and again, it would be career suicide for both the agent and Gordon if his agent were lying about his sobriety and seriousness about Football), then it's incumbent on teams to take advantage of this.

Bullshit. It's the agent's job to do that. It's not at all career suicide. And Gordon loses nothing. He's made these exact same claims in the past. There will always be takers as long as the prospect of his potential exists.
 

Zodi

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"The diluted test is the same as a positive test by NFL standards."

So he failed a drug test by having a "negative-dilute" result. Like I said, horseshit

Comparing Gordon to Blackmon is straight ludicrous. Blackmon seems to have the IQ of a Chia Pet, while Gordon just seems immature. Blackmon also never produced a 1600 yard season, or even anything close.
 

Mackeyser

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Everyone has their opinion. Belligerent for defending and sharing viewpoints is laughable. Sorry not sorry, it wasn't your place. Couldn't care less though :)

I was actually agreeing with you for the most part.

But we tend to not get on folks who disagree. You've been pretty edgy with your takes. I'm kinda surprised someone didn't take issue.

I was just mentioning something I noticed. I get strident, too. It's just important to keep it about the issue and not about the poster.

We are all (mostly) Rams fans here (not slamming anyone, but a few posters are either former Rams fans or just here for the quality of posts). Just important to keep it friendly. =)
 

jrry32

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"The diluted test is the same as a positive test by NFL standards."

So he failed a drug test by having a "negative-dilute" result. Like I said, horseshit

Comparing Gordon to Blackmon is straight ludicrous. Blackmon seems to have the IQ of a Chia Pet, while Gordon just seems immature. Blackmon also never produced a 1600 yard season, or even anything close.

No, he failed the drug test outright, but he would have also failed due to the diluted sample.

Blackmon was averaging 100+ yards per game the year he was suspended and posting similar production to Gordon as a rookie. As for Blackmon's IQ, I doubt it's lower than Gordon's. I've met the guy; he's not stupid.

You're projecting immaturity onto Gordon and stupidity onto Blackmon because of your desire for Gordon to play for the Rams.
 

Loyal

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It seems that any thread, no matter how good, becomes a pizzing contest after about 4 pages..lol...
 

kurtfaulk

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I won't. The Rams know best what risks they want to take, especially when it might require a trade. If they want to take that risk, I am behind them 100%. If they don't want to take that risk, I am also behind them 100%.

People have said the same things each of the past two off-seasons. Yet, here we are still uncertain if this will be the year that Gordon returns to the NFL.

i'm pretty sure he's doing it the right way this season.

not like the time he came back in 2014. overweight, didn't know the playbook, played like a bum. then got busted for drinking after the last game when he should have known better. he either didn't know or didn't care, i'm not sure which is worse.

at least last preseason he looked like the beast we all knew from 2013. his body control towards the ball was elite pure and simple. the rams would be wise to do their homework on him and make a trade if they fell comfortable with the cost. the offense needs a wr like gordon, goff needs a wr like gordon, the fans need a wr like gordon. make it happen rams.

.
 

jrry32

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i'm pretty sure he's doing it the right way this season.

not like the time he came back in 2014. overweight, didn't know the playbook, played like a bum. then got busted for drinking after the last game when he should have known better. he either didn't know or didn't care, i'm not sure which is worse.

at least last preseason he looked like the beast we all knew from 2013. his body control towards the ball was elite pure and simple. the rams would be wise to do their homework on him and make a trade if they fell comfortable with the cost. the offense needs a wr like gordon, goff needs a wr like gordon, the fans need a wr like gordon. make it happen rams.

.

Yep, he looked like a beast last preseason and then ended up in rehab.

Listen, I'd love for the Rams to have a WR of Gordon's caliber. I'd love for Gordon to come back and be a monster for this team. We need it. But I'm not going to get my hopes up. I don't trust the kid. Actions speak louder than words. I'll believe he can stay on the field when I see it. I guess we'll find out what happens after he's reinstated.
 

Zodi

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No, he failed the drug test outright...

Uh, no. Did you even read the article you posted? It states that his THC levels were below the league's threshold, but still failed because his urine was so diluted.

If I'm projecting anything about Gordon, it's that in 2013, he had a 1600 yard season (including back to back 200+ yard receiving games) in 14 games for the CLEVELAND BROWNS. He is obviously talented, and unlike Blackmon (who has since disappeared completely), is at least making an attempt to go through the right motions and processes to right his career. To me, the kid is talented and wants to play football.

I don't think he's some loser, perpetual substance abuser like you're "projecting" him to be, either. I mean, even with his issues in college, he still found success in the NFL, albeit brief. Roger Goodell and his rich, white goon crew just really, really hate weed.
 

jrry32

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Uh, no. Did you even read the article you posted? It states that his THC levels were below the league's threshold, but still failed because his urine was so diluted.

You're right. I was thinking of his 2014 failed drug test where his A sample failed but the B sample would have passed.

Regardless, a diluted sample is a failure for good reason. Guys try to dilute their sample when they are worried they're going to fail because they have drugs in their system. What's it say about Gordon that he couldn't stay away from marijuana at that point?

Plus, his diluted sample was only considered to be a positive test because it contained marijuana. If it hadn't contained marijuana or any other banned substance, he would have been fine (assuming he didn't have past diluted samples).

If I'm projecting anything about Gordon, it's that in 2013, he had a 1600 yard season (including back to back 200+ yard receiving games) in 14 games for the CLEVELAND BROWNS. He is obviously talented, and unlike Blackmon (who has since disappeared completely), is at least making an attempt to go through the right motions and processes to right his career. To me, the kid is talented and wants to play football.

Blackmon is obviously talented too. He was averaging 100+ yards per game in his second year in the NFL with Blaine Gabbert at QB. Blackmon chose not to try and come back. From what I heard, he had some major substance abuse issues and felt that the NFL lifestyle just couldn't coexist with sobriety. It's his life.

Gordon has attempted to come back a few times now. It'll be up to him to stay on the straight and narrow. Thus far, he hasn't done that. He hasn't done anything to earn trust to this point.

I don't think he's some loser, perpetual substance abuser like you're "projecting" him to be, either. I mean, even with his issues in college, he still found success in the NFL, albeit brief. Roger Goodell and his rich, white goon crew just really, really hate weed.

His issues in college wouldn't have stopped him from finding success on the field. His issues in college would have stopped him from getting on the field. Thus far, they have.

I'm not projecting him to be anything. I'm calling a spade a spade. Josh Gordon is an incredible talent who hasn't been able to control his substance abuse issues thus far in his career. That's simply the facts of the situation. I'm not calling him a loser or a winner. I'm not calling him a bad person or a good person. I'm only stating the facts of the situation.

Begrudge Goodell and the owners all you want. They still make the rules. It's up to Gordon if he wants to follow them. Thus far, he has chosen weed, drinking, and partying over football. We'll see if that changes moving forward.

Simply put, though, I think it's nuts to trade a third round pick for Josh Gordon. We are already missing our first round pick. We can't afford to trade our third round pick for a guy who hasn't played a snap of football since 2014 and has only played 5 games over the last 3 seasons. It's simply too much risk.

It's also worth mentioning that if marijuana were legalized nationwide, the NFL may no longer test for it since it currently falls under the illegal drug prohibition in the policy.
 

dolphinlover123

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Lastly, no, absolutely not, I don't think Cleveland is remotely willing to deal with him in any capacity. In that respect, Gordon is very similar to Carter. Both did well on the field, but unlike in the days of secrecy, Gordon plays today with social media. Carter was able to hide most of his issues, enough so that his release was a surprise to many, many fans. Carter would have been a totally different story in 2016. But I think like Philly was done with Carter, so Cleveland is done with Gordon. It's just a relationship that can't be repaired and Carter went on to be a HoFer and Gordon easily has that level of talent.
Sashi: Browns 'not in position' to dump Josh Gordon
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...hi-browns-not-in-position-to-dump-josh-gordon

"Josh, assuming that he'd play at the level we started to see glimpses of last preseason and certainly when he was in the league before, would be a talent I think no team in the NFL would turn down if he got back in," Brown said. "Our decision with Josh is just understanding where he is in his process and being able to add him."