Rams trying to get something done with Shelton

[Kupped]

Yeah. If cut post June 1st, then you split his dead money over 2 yrs instead of taking the hit all this yr.

Plus you don't get that $15M in cap relief until after Jume 1st.

That's why the Rams last yr swallowed hard and dumped most of their guys pre June 1st instead of waiting. They wanted to take all their hits in 23' instead of letting it spill into 24'.

I understand those parts of it. And I'm good with opening up the money post-June 1st when I see the number of late, low-cost signings that were impactful this year in the NFL, including on the Rams. It also means there's a little money available for a trade.

 

[PARAM]

I have a couple of questions.

1. Do we have enough cap space to sign Shelton, Dotson, Alaric and a free agent Edge, have enough $ for the draft class and that 5 mil cushion they carry into the season?

2. If "yes", then I have no worries.

3. If "no", then I would suppose the decision comes down to Dotson OR a free agent edge. In which case, I suppose that decision hinges on those position strengths in the draft.

4. Are there any guys currently on the roster at those two positions who may fit the bill? McClendon? Mathis? Etc.

5. Given the choice between Dotson and an Edge....say Danielle Hunter, which do we need the most?

 

[dieterbrock]

You answered my question. You're saying Noteboom IMPACTS this year's cap $10 million dollars, even if he's cut post-June 1st.

*My* understanding.. is that $5 million dollar bonus *is the actual $5 million in dead money*.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.. but I can't see anywhere that Noteboom will have a $10 million cap hit in 24 if he's cut with a post-June 1 designation.

And.. I'm good with kicking the can down the road. As I said.. with the cap growing, the percentage is lower.. and it's also just not that big of a deal.

I dont know how this doesnt make sense at this point other than being argumentative.
10 mill cap hit in 2024 is correct. 5 mill of restructure dead money + 5 mill of roster bonus
The explanation follows, the answers are right there.
Maybe have someone read it to you

Bonus is NOT dead money
I'll just copy and paste what I took the time to try and explain
There is 15 mill of dead money from his ‘23 restructuring.
5 mill per year of dead money.
5 mill in ‘24
5 mill in ‘25*
5 mill in ‘26*
* 2025 & 2026 are void years and when contract voids, dead cap accelerates
So as it stands there is 10 mill of dead money in 2025
If he is cut or traded, ALL of his dead money accelerates, so if cut prior to June 1, 15 mill hits cap immediately.
After June 1, 5 mill in ‘24 and 10 mill in ‘25
His dead cap, as previously explained is 15 million.
One problem that people seem to miss is that there is dead cap and total cap.
On 3/18 he gets a 5 mill bonus which directly affects the current cap, his dead cap is not affected either way, it's a different line item.
The other problem that people misunderstand is that dead cap comparisons are based on a player being cut or traded and dont consider the future cap implications if the player stays with the team
There are 4 options
1) Keep Noteboom, his 2024 cap hit is 20 million. 5 mill bonus, 10 mill salary, 5 mill restructure dead cap. In 2025 the Rams get a 10 mill dead cap hit for restructure. Total cap 30 mill
2) Cut/trade Noteboom prior to 3/18, 15 mill dead cap hit
3) Cut/trade Noteboom after 3/18, Prior to 7/1, 5 mill bonus + 15 mill restructure acceleration. total 20 mill cap hit
4) Cut/trade Noteboom after 7/1, 5 mill bonus + 5 mill restructure acceleration. total 10 mill cap hit in '24. additional 10 mill cap hit in '25. Total 20 mill
So, it costs the Rams 5 mill of cap space to cut/trade him after 3/18

 

[Kupped]

I dont know how this doesnt make sense at this point other than being argumentative.
10 mill cap hit in 2024 is correct. 5 mill of restructure dead money + 5 mill of roster bonus
The explanation follows, the answers are right there.
Maybe have someone read it to you

Bonus is NOT dead money
I'll just copy and paste what I took the time to try and explain
There is 15 mill of dead money from his ‘23 restructuring.
5 mill per year of dead money.
5 mill in ‘24
5 mill in ‘25*
5 mill in ‘26*
* 2025 & 2026 are void years and when contract voids, dead cap accelerates
So as it stands there is 10 mill of dead money in 2025
If he is cut or traded, ALL of his dead money accelerates, so if cut prior to June 1, 15 mill hits cap immediately.
After June 1, 5 mill in ‘24 and 10 mill in ‘25
His dead cap, as previously explained is 15 million.
One problem that people seem to miss is that there is dead cap and total cap.
On 3/18 he gets a 5 mill bonus which directly affects the current cap, his dead cap is not affected either way, it's a different line item.
The other problem that people misunderstand is that dead cap comparisons are based on a player being cut or traded and dont consider the future cap implications if the player stays with the team
There are 4 options
1) Keep Noteboom, his 2024 cap hit is 20 million. 5 mill bonus, 10 mill salary, 5 mill restructure dead cap. In 2025 the Rams get a 10 mill dead cap hit for restructure. Total cap 30 mill
2) Cut/trade Noteboom prior to 3/18, 15 mill dead cap hit
3) Cut/trade Noteboom after 3/18, Prior to 7/1, 5 mill bonus + 15 mill restructure acceleration. total 20 mill cap hit
4) Cut/trade Noteboom after 7/1, 5 mill bonus + 5 mill restructure acceleration. total 10 mill cap hit in '24. additional 10 mill cap hit in '25. Total 20 mill
So, it costs the Rams 5 mill of cap space to cut/trade him after 3/18

I use the online calculator at OTC and they show the Rams with a $15 million dollar savings on this year's cap if Joe Noteboom is released, post June first.

And there's this in an article about it

"The team could use a post-June 1 to get around the bonus, but then they won’t see the savings for months".

Will Rams use Post-June 1 cut on Joe Noteboom?

Post-June 1 cut rules for Rams and other NFL teams

www.turfshowtimes.com

So, I'm not being argumentative, or thick.. I'm seeing information that contradicts your explanation of that March bonus and what impact it has on the 2024 cap number.

 

[dieterbrock]

Yeah. If cut post June 1st, then you split his dead money over 2 yrs instead of taking the hit all this yr.

Plus you don't get that $15M in cap relief until after Jume 1st.

That's why the Rams last yr swallowed hard and dumped most of their guys pre June 1st instead of waiting. They wanted to take all their hits in 23' instead of letting it spill into 24'.

If you cut him as a post June 1, you are also committing to pay him 5 mill of roster bonus which goes against the '24 cap

 

[dieterbrock]

So, I'm not being argumentative, or thick.. I'm seeing information that contradicts your explanation of that March bonus and what impact it has on the 2024 cap number.

It doesnt contradict what Im saying, it is saying the exact same thing
"Essentially a post-June 1 designation simply says that the team waited long eno"ugh so they don’t have to pay the additional dead money cap charges left on your salary until next season. The Rams owe Noteboom $5 million prorated bonus payments from his signing bonus in 2024, 2025, and 2026. So if he is released in March, that means three $15 million signing bonus payments=$15 million in dead money. Then $10 million in dead money for 2025 and $5 million in dead money for 2026.

 

[RamDino]

I would like to see Noteboom kept on for depth. However, he will probably get hurt again, even in a limited role. I'm sorry, but I would cut him prior to 3/18. And it's 5 million more they can offer to Dotson or even a free agent. Time will tell.

 

[Allen2McVay]

I would like to see Noteboom kept on for depth. However, he will probably get hurt again, even in a limited role. I'm sorry, but I would cut him prior to 3/18. And it's 5 million more they can offer to Dotson or even a free agent. Time will tell.

I agree with everything you saying here; and, by no means, do I think Noteboom is a top-tier OT.

However, without him, the Rams have no clear 3rd OT ... plus, despite enjoying good health on the O-Line in 2023, Havenstein and Jackson missed five games combined.

Who would fill-in? I consider Noteboom to, at least, be an adequate starter.

The Rams could draft an OT, and maybe they should, but they only have a couple premium picks. Free Agency could be an option but that seems to defeat the whole purpose of creating $5M of cap space. What would the Rams get for $5M?

Personally, I don't know what I want them to do with Joe Noteboom.

 

[CoachAllred]

View: https://twitter.com/StuJRams/status/1760773475814555755

Hope Rams are proactively looking too sign Dotson instead of very very average, under weight Center.
Avilla and Dotson are huge helps for Shelton.
Was really hoping to get bigger and more physical at center.

Fuller will have to playball with contract to stay.
Rams don't pay safety's.
They keep drafting and rotating
new blood in and older blood out.

Only interested in keeping Dotson and Wentz( on a very friendly backup QB deal).
we have the money and draft picks to improve.
We need
1. pass rush (edge) improvement
2. oline improvement. (size at C) (keep Dotson) How do you let your best olineman walk without a fight
1000LBS In the middle please. G C G

3. Secondary.

 

[Kupped]

It doesnt contradict what Im saying, it is saying the exact same thing
"Essentially a post-June 1 designation simply says that the team waited long eno"ugh so they don’t have to pay the additional dead money cap charges left on your salary until next season. The Rams owe Noteboom $5 million prorated bonus payments from his signing bonus in 2024, 2025, and 2026. So if he is released in March, that means three $15 million signing bonus payments=$15 million in dead money. Then $10 million in dead money for 2025 and $5 million in dead money for 2026.

I may not being clear enough.

All I care about is what the post June 1 designation means for the 24 season.

All I’m reading points to it meaning only a 5 million hit on the 24 cap.

That’s all I’m concerned about when it comes to moving on from Noteboom.

 

[WestCoastRam]

I haven't seen this much maths since Algebra 2 in high school.

 

[dieterbrock]

I haven't seen this much maths since Algebra 2 in high school.

Lol

 

[Merlin]

2. oline improvement. (size at C) (keep Dotson) How do you let your best olineman walk without a fight
1000LBS In the middle please. G C G

Have to think that keeping Dotson and drafting an upgrade at Center would boost our redzone scoring rate. Which is always a big deal of course but even moreso now with so many teams playing prevent defense and games coming down to redzone potency.

Rams were 8th in redzone scoring (TD only) in the NFL last season at 60.34%. For the record they were 20th on defense at 56.86%.

The beauty of Center is that we should be able to address it with one of two round 3 picks and give the offense a nice boost (assuming they don't lose Dotson in which case the term "boost" is questionable). Which leaves three high picks to juice the defense.

Pick-value-to-field-translation percentage, if such a thing really existed, would strongly favor the defense. In that we stand to see much greater gains for equivalent quality additions to that side of the ball. It is time to load them up IMO.

 

[JonRam99]

Dotson first, please. I'm sure Shelton has been great & all but I really wanna draft a big ol Center in the likes of how we drafted Avila.
I don't mind keeping Shelton, but if it's at the expense of Dotson?? no way.

 

[WestCoastRam]

Dotson first, please. I'm sure Shelton has been great & all but I really wanna draft a big ol Center in the likes of how we drafted Avila.
I don't mind keeping Shelton, but if it's at the expense of Dotson?? no way.

I think the conventional wisdom is that Dotson is already gone for greener pastures (literally) and Rams want to keep Shelton at a reasonable deal.

 

[Allen2McVay]

I think the conventional wisdom is that Dotson is already gone for greener pastures (literally) and Rams want to keep Shelton at a reasonable deal.

I don't agree with that. Although Dotson certainly may be gone, I think he simply wants gauge the market.

That's the smart and right thing to do.

Given his age, and these circumstances ... including a higher than expected salary cap ... this is probably a once-in-a-career opportunity for Dotson. I don't know how the Rams could convince him to turn it down, without offering a Massive contract.

 

[shovelpass]

Snead has already said they want Dotson back, but they also expect him to have a competitive market. He might be the biggest FA, but he's not the only FA.

I think they probably have a list of guys they want to re-sign and a budget for each one.

 

[WestCoastRam]

I don't agree with that. Although Dotson certainly may be gone, I think he simply wants gauge the market.

That's the smart and right thing to do.

Given his age, and these circumstances ... including a higher than expected salary cap ... this is probably a once-in-a-career opportunity for Dotson. I don't know how the Rams could convince him to turn it down, without offering a Massive contract.

I don't disagree with you, think it's just semantics.

 

[OldSchool]

With "legal tampering" beginning this week, Rams will know what Dotson's price on the open market is within a certain amount of certitude. Gonna be interesting at the combine.

Rams can negotiate with him right now and should have an idea what he's looking for already. Next week just opens that up to other teams.

 

[Wisconsinram]

Excuse my ignorance as I truly don't know, but is there a reason why Noteboom and Rams couldn't restructure his contract in a way that would provide him his current value (very high as a back-up at multiple positions imo) and provide the Rams with a little relief given he hasn't grown into the position as was expected when he originally signed? To me, there is a win-win in there somewhere, but perhaps there is something that gets in the way of that I don't fully understand.
I would think that if he were cut, he wouldn't find suitors at his current rate. Maybe I'm wrong. But that's why I am asking.
What I do believe is that he is very valuable to have on the team in terms of insurance against the inevitable injuries we will incur.