Rams Need to Look at O-line Personnel/Wagoner

[Rmfnlt]

I mean, I see the point of wanting to see younger guys playing in order to assess them for next year, but I'm still not a fan of it. You've got veterans out their busting their asses, and now the game's about talent evaluation instead of actually trying to win. I dunno. That would kind of pee pee me off if I was a veteran who took this stuff seriously. Clearly the coaches feel the same way.

They should have been taking it more seriously earlier in the season.

Kidding aside... I hear you about the coaches knowing what they have.

Which kind of scares me because that means Wells and Joseph are better than anything we have behind them. Yikes.

To me, they haven't earned the right to start lately... maybe it'd be a wake up call to them.

One last thought on this: Will Wells or Joseph really be starters next year? Or even on the team? This could sound cold but, if they are not (going to start or be on the team), with two games to go, what's the point of keeping them in the line-up?

 

[BonifayRam]

Well, Bonifay, I surely can appreciate your POV.

And I've never taken a shot at Wells or Davin Joseph as people (i.e. I haven't called them crap or personal names or anything like that).

But... their performance is hurting the team. That point just can't be argued about.

Now, I really don't care WHY Fisher is sticking with them.... They're great guys... they work hard... they're blackmailing him... who knows? Not really the point.

My only point is that their poor play is hurting the Rams and that pursuing Continuity solely for the sake of Continuity is a fool's errand. If Fisher and Boudreau aren't getting the BENEFITS from Continuity...meaning they aren't getting the communication and performance that should come from Continuity... then, well, what the hell is it for? So they can remember their names easier? So they can make a point about "you earn you job in pre-season"?

Like Aaron Donald did? Like EJ Gaines did?

I like Fisher. I really do. That said, his aversion to rookies or at least his penchant for trusting OLD Vets can be taken to a fault. I know how that is. I'm loyal to a fault. It's cost me in real life, so I GET IT on a personal level.

I also get it that it's a problem that will prevent this team from being all it can be... because there will always be some OLD VET whom he trusts more than the most capable person.

How much it stunts this team's development, I dunno.

I understand your position here. IMO the Rams OL has been Fishers weak link since he arrived & continues to the very moment...it was the Rams weak link with the previous last 3 or 4 Ram HC's too. I also think the Rams OL will continue being this teams weak link going into next season too. Not good. It obvious that Fisher & Boudreau think that Wells & Joseph as starters are better than Barnes/Washington/Person/Jones at this moment.

Reference Davin Joseph.......In Training Camp & pre season ....if I can recall it right this was the OL'ers who played Right OG Saffold/Joseph/Bond/Van Dyk/D.J. Morrell/Washington. Washington really did not see much action period. ORG Morrell/Van Dyk/Bond were released then Saffold flipped to start @ the OLG post until Robinson was ready to start @ OLG post, when the season began thus leaving Davin Joseph to secure the ORG starting post by default with nothing much behind him besides Brandon Washington. Once Robinson got up to speed he took up the OLG post with Saffold moving back to start @ ORG sending Joseph back to the planned reserve situation @ ORG. Then the Jake Long injury inserted Joseph as a starter. Fisher has not addressed the ORG in any of the 3 Ram drafts but did in UFA'cy. Thus there is NO young talent ORG on the roster. Joseph being the primary starter @ ORG was not the Fisher plan. I do not see Joseph returning in 2015.

Reference Scott Wells.....Wells was on the IR at the end of the last season with a broken leg. Wells was ending much of his rehab process when most likely Rams Org. came to him with a deal to either restructure or be released. Wells did what the Org wanted & requested he restructured taking a loss of pay of over 2 million . Wells base salary was reduced from $5.5 million to $1 million plus $1.65 million roster bonus and $850,000 in per-game roster bonuses. He proved to be a team first player. It also needs to be said here that @ this period of time none of the Rams' five offensive line positions were settled, the Org felt it would be wise to keep the 33-year-old around as a stabilizing presence.

Things began to looked up here for Wells, but it changed drastically, a very serious "life threatening event" took place thru the summer, leaving Wells in a very weakened state. With Wells unhealthy & out of playing shape ...Barnes/Jones/Rhaney took up the center duties for most of the TC but Jones developed back issues & had back surgery then Rhaney injured his knee & was placed on IR. With the lost of both Jones & Rhaney Person took up the slack @ center. Wells did get in some action in the last pre season game. Here in this post situation Snead/Fisher did address the center position in the draft twice (2013 & 2014) but both of them have had health issues. Rams should be in a good position next season here @ center with two young fine centers Rhaney/Jones plus Barnes & Person to return to compete. I do not see Wells returning in 2015.

 

[WestCoastRam]

I agree with some of the posters here who say: if Jones had the potential (if any of the interior guys had the potential) they'd be playing these next two games. We need a whole new interior and that includes backups.

Honestly, I wouldn't be disappointed if the Rams traded back in this coming draft (all things being equal) and picked up some of those picks we traded for Barron. We're gonna need to pick up two interior linemen for sure... if not three. That is, unless we grab someone in FA.

 

[RaminExile]

I agree with some of the posters here who say: if Jones had the potential (if any of the interior guys had the potential) they'd be playing these next two games. We need a whole new interior and that includes backups.

Honestly, I wouldn't be disappointed if the Rams traded back in this coming draft (all things being equal) and picked up some of those picks we traded for Barron. We're gonna need to pick up two interior linemen for sure... if not three. That is, unless we grab someone in FA.

This I agree with. I just hope we can hit on some of them! No Rok Watkins types....

 

[WestCoastRam]

What worries me is that they were so hell bent on trying to trade for Zach Martin that maybe they thought the oline talent in this draft isn't that great.

 

[BonifayRam]

What worries me is that they were so hell bent on trying to trade for Zach Martin that maybe they thought the oline talent in this draft isn't that great.

Zack Martin was a sure OL talent that was a very big need. Snead went BPA with that first round #13 selection. Looks like that Snead pick will end up being the best DL rookie in the NFL. However it sure left the OL close to empty of young talent OL'ers. One would have to guess that if Martin was the pick he would be starting next to Barksdale instead of Joseph! That would have been a great help to Barksdale in a large way.

I agree with some of the posters here who say: if Jones had the potential (if any of the interior guys had the potential) they'd be playing these next two games. We need a whole new interior and that includes backups.

I think Barrett Jones has a ton of ability that is just latent until he gets his chance to start @ OC/OLG/ORT thus far his early rookie season 2013 foot surgery & Barrett's 2014 summer back surgery will slow down most hardened tough all pro's! I just do not see any 2015 Ram center need when you could easily have the four Ram OL'ers listed below who play center & a few could be back up OG's too.

Mike Person 27-5yrs 6-4 1/2 299 UFA
Tim Barnes 27-4yrs 6-4/3o6 RFA
Barrett Jones 25-3yrs 6-4 3/4/308 Snead/Fisher 4th rd Ram pick under contract
Demetrius Rhaney 23-1yr 6-2 301 Snead/Fisher 7th rd Ram pick under contract
.......But your right that the Rams have big big BIG need an new starting interior ORG in this upcoming draft.

Honestly, I wouldn't be disappointed if the Rams traded back in this coming draft (all things being equal) and picked up some of those picks we traded for Barron. We're gonna need to pick up two interior linemen for sure... if not three. That is, unless we grab someone in FA.

Snead should be able to get 3 Ol'ers out of his small five selections in this upcoming draft. Snead still has all his draft ammo during the most important days one & two of the draft. I expect several future OL starters coming in during those first two days.

 

[Merlin]

I have to think winning is more important that talent evaluation in game action. And, I trust Boudreau, by all accounts one of if not the best Oline coach in the NFL. They have seen these guys in practice now for going on 5 months, they know who is hurt who is recovering and who is not performing up to expectations. Is this unit in need of some upgrades, we all know the answer is yes but is this the time to try something? They know better than me and by the looks of it the answer is no.

I hate the reduced number of practice days in the spring and summer but it is what it is. Being able to develop the talent and peak in December and January while continuing to win enough games to make the playoffs is an art and this team is close to figuring it all out with these constraints.

Like I said I trust Bou and Fish to know better than me, it would be nice not to see any more of those short snap (Wells has to be cringing when he knows that is coming in the film review). And, I would love to see the Rams run the ball 50 time each in the last two games while inflicting massive pain (especially the seahags). At this point what else do they have to play for besides screwing up the seahags chances of home field advantage????

Yeah no matter how you slice it I go back to the fact that I trust Coach Bou. The dude flat knows what he's doing so if he wants to play the vets I'm not gonna question it.

If I had to guess I would say that Coach knows we won't have a lot of dropoff from Wells to whomever. Difference is probably that they expect the depth guys to give up a couple more interior pressures from missed calls or blown assignments. And since that might be the difference in the game, again, I'm good with sticking with the experienced guys until the depth makes the decision for them by killing it in practice.

If and when Jones ever does get through camp healthy and claim a job it's gonna be funny to see all the crow-eating going on across the Rams nation message boards though. Because the flak the dude gets makes me think he's a top 5 pick or something.

 

[Amitar]

The coaches and players can tell if a player deserves playing time or not

Not always. Look at how the Rams left Stacy on the bench while their run game was terrible and only put him in when Richardson and Cunningham were hurt. They also left Bailey out of the the line up for most the season. We know the OL needs help. To not put other play other guys to evaluate them in a real game setting is negligent. Why in the world would you continue to start players that are not getting it done when the Rams are out of the playoffs anyway? I understand winning but nothing says their chances are any worse starting other players.
If it ain't working stop doing it. Also Fisher's inability to not do this is just another reason the offense is playing like it is knee deep in mud.

 

[-X-]

Not always. Look at how the Rams left Stacy on the bench while their run game was terrible and only put him in when Richardson and Cunningham were hurt. They also left Bailey out of the the line up for most the season.

Stacy hadn't earned the time yet because he couldn't block or pick up blitzers. That was widely reported. Bailey had trouble tracking the deep ball early last year and was behind on the depth chart because of it. His snaps increased as his consistency and performance increased. Coaches see these guys every day, and we see them not playing. Who, among those two groups, would be more likely to have the most information about how they're progressing?