Rams May Build Depth on OL in 2018 Offseason

[Riverumbbq]

First off I’m not panicking about the oline or it’s depth at all or in any way shape or scenario. I was si,ply responding to one of many posts by people, it seems you as well, that can see the value of a first round lineman.

Secondly from the very early start of us talking about draft picks this year I’ve been pimping 3 or 4 guys to take in the third or fourth round. One guy, Alex Cappa, has gotten love from some others.

Third, Havenstein and at times Brown were the weak links in the line. Also as you point out Sullivan is a free agent and Saffold, Havenstein and Brown are going into their last year of their contracts. Blythe who is the back up at center and Guard also is only signed through 2018. Four fifths of our line was s free agents at the end of next year and the last guy will be 37. Really sounds like something we should push down the road. I can already imagine the endless string of posts here pissing and making that Snead waited till the last minute to fix this when he knew it was coming up, they’re going to be fun to read. Only thing worse would be the threads full of whining about rolling the dice on starting a couple rookies or risky free agents to protect Jared and open holes for Gurley.

Lastly who’s to say a solution to the edge position or starting CB or nose tackle that’s capable of starting is available at 23? Two can play that game.

The Rams oline could be fine after the offseason. The pass rush and secondary might be as well. We don’t know yet anymore Han we know what the oline situation will be. JMO

My panic mode comment wasn't meant for you specifically, just for those where the shoe fits, in fact, I believe you and I are closer on some of these details than others involved in the debate.
You are right, I do value the LT position extremely high and would prefer to let Kromer work his magic for a couple seasons in hope he might find that jewel at a bargain price later in the draft, and if not, then do what it takes to trade up if the previous option eludes us, including sacrificing a next year pick if it came down to it, but this isn't necessary in 2018, more for 2019 or 2020. I'd like to see Sullivan get a 2 year extension and Saffold receive another multi-year extension immediately as both would relieve some of that current & 2019 pressure. I've got two offensive linemen in my current mock, one in the 3'rd and another in the 6'th, and similar action would likely come about in 2019 & 2020 based on potential future needs if free agency doesn't help close that gap.
As for whoever is our 1'st round draft pick, anyone of us is at risk for a letdown, but some positions like LT, NT & CB are quite top heavy to be gone where we draft, where i'm seeing potential value in the bottom half of the first round is with pass rushers. Of course, these comparisons is based on early mocks by pundits who will change direction several times following the Senior Bowl & Combine leading up to the draft, so everything is thick with conjecture, and between the media feeding us BS they've picked up from smoke screening team management and the talking heads hammering us every possibility under the sun, somehow we will find a degree of enjoyment sifting thru the garbage and coming to our own conclusions, ... however right or wrong. jmo

 

[WestCoastRam]

Imagine how many of our conversations about the draft will be moot once FA has gotten past the first two weeks. But then again, what fun would it be if we waited until then to speculate!!

 

[Riverumbbq]

Imagine how many of our conversations about the draft will be moot once FA has gotten past the first two weeks. But then again, what fun would it be if we waited until then to speculate!!

Not moot necessarily, but they'll be very different for when we do discuss positioning and players. One free agent or even missing re-signing a current player who we expect to see re-signed could throw everything out the window.

 

[OldSchool]

Imagine how many of our conversations about the draft will be moot once FA has gotten past the first two weeks. But then again, what fun would it be if we waited until then to speculate!!

That's the main reason I laugh at the comments that are basically "anything but an OLine is good and viable and worth it in the 1st". We haven't even started free agency and have no idea who they're going to resign or sign. It's all throwing darts at the dart board at this point in time.

 

[payote75]

The second quote is what I was responding to. Again if we take an OT with our first pick and he plays RT or RG or even swing tackle backup it's not a bad thing.

I say ehhh even if he can play now but I still go the younger vet rout to hold the fort and get a player that help the def stop the run if available I'd also resign our main guys and that's pending that tru is lowering his demands he has made enough money over the last two years. I would love to also make some cuts that everyone keeps talking about and add a def player and see if we can sign a Pugh and that would solve everything as he can play tackle or guard that's money well spent and then draft can be defense heavy.

 

[payote75]

P.S. Supposedly Cordy Glenn might be on trade block and I'd definitely shake that Bills tree again under our coaching and possibly keeping him healthy he could be a steal. On defense sign a dude that I think is a very good fit for our def and would thrive and I believe could be had for a low pick is Hau'oli Kikaha (LB, Saints) I think he would make a great edge rush addition and makes no money I believe. Thoughts???

 

[John R]

I think it can't be stated how lucky we were to have the health of our Oline that we did this year. I think we were waaaay above the mean. I'd worry less about picking up some OT/OG depth and having them play along the line as a starter than that guy sitting a year but still playing some games due to injuries.

Another thought, Saffold stays put but an OT prospect that showed a lot of promise would compete for Havenstein's spot or push Havenstein inside for at least a year. In this situation, Havenstein and Brown duke it out for starter status. Back in the day, many a future LOT started at RT for a year or so.

If we're lucky enough to fill most needs in FA, we're a good enough team that we can draft for the future and not seek immediate starters at some spots. Wow... can't believe I wrote that.

All this year I wondered about that injury thing. I'm sure part of it is just good luck, but I wonder how much of it is due to playing on grass more than they did in St. Louis? It seemed like everyone was injured back in St. Lou. I remember a lot of complaints about the playing surface.

Regarding Havenstein, my cousin is married to Dante Scarneccia, the Patriots oline coach for like forever, he's very-very good when it comes to evaluating and coaching up linemen. I spent a day fly fishing with him on my driftboat the summer after we drafted Robinson and Havenstein.

I asked him about both players. He politely avoided comment on Robinson, but gushed over Havenstein. Only thing just at right tackle. He said you could just put him in at right tackle and be set there for ten years, but he wouldn't be able switch inside or to the left side.

 

[Soul Surfer]

That's the main reason I laugh at the comments that are basically "anything but an OLine is good and viable and worth it in the 1st". We haven't even started free agency and have no idea who they're going to resign or sign. It's all throwing darts at the dart board at this point in time.

Haven't you guys noticed that Snead usually takes every player he thinks he needs in free agency and then turns around and takes the same players in the draft?

Especially last year.

I think it's a great idea to have those veterans in those key positions and not counting on rookies to produce.

It actually takes a lot of pressure off the rookies and gives you a chance to actually develop them out correctly.

Not to mention that if you get an injury at a position that you picked up a expensive free agent at, at least you have a rookie, (hopefully) ready to step in.

 

[So Ram]

My panic mode comment wasn't meant for you specifically, just for those where the shoe fits, in fact, I believe you and I are closer on some of these details than others involved in the debate.
You are right, I do value the LT position extremely high and would prefer to let Kromer work his magic for a couple seasons in hope he might find that jewel at a bargain price later in the draft, and if not, then do what it takes to trade up if the previous option eludes us, including sacrificing a next year pick if it came down to it, but this isn't necessary in 2018, more for 2019 or 2020. I'd like to see Sullivan get a 2 year extension and Saffold receive another multi-year extension immediately as both would relieve some of that current & 2019 pressure. I've got two offensive linemen in my current mock, one in the 3'rd and another in the 6'th, and similar action would likely come about in 2019 & 2020 based on potential future needs if free agency doesn't help close that gap.
As for whoever is our 1'st round draft pick, anyone of us is at risk for a letdown, but some positions like LT, NT & CB are quite top heavy to be gone where we draft, where i'm seeing potential value in the bottom half of the first round is with pass rushers. Of course, these comparisons is based on early mocks by pundits who will change direction several times following the Senior Bowl & Combine leading up to the draft, so everything is thick with conjecture, and between the media feeding us BS they've picked up from smoke screening team management and the talking heads hammering us every possibility under the sun, somehow we will find a degree of enjoyment sifting thru the garbage and coming to our own conclusions, ... however right or wrong. jmo

Some solid points. I’m going to contain myself on needs for now. The off-season will lead into that.

As far as the offensive line goes before the season started I put up my only post.

It was the Big 5 !!

They held up great most of the year. They deserve a lot of the credit for the offensive improvement this season.

John Sullivan was a huge improvement, but Austin Blythe step in without a drop off. .
Darell Williams held up ok , but always need to look to upgrade. Adding depth is huge since The Rams went with only 8 O’lineman.

Saffold might have played himself into a extension ?

 

[BonifayRam]

Last time Snead drafted any OT's is was back in 2015. Snead did not select any OL'ers in the last 2 drafts (2016/2017). Back to 2015/2014 Snead selected 6 (SIX) OT's in 2 drafts:

Isaiah Battle 5th rd. cut
Jamon brown 3rd rd. Starts @ OG
Andrew Donnal 4th rd. cut
Rob Havenstien 2nd rd. only starting OT.
Greg Robinson 1st rd. traded
Mitch Van Dyk 7th rd. released

Only one of the 6 are starting here today @ OT. Not a good paragraph in Snead's resume on the OL. That's a great amount of draft wealth initially invested with some serious long term $$$ cap costs lost with very little in return @ the position of OT. I would hope that Kromer, who will get another chance to be involved in his first OL draft selection in 2018 draft will assist Snead & his scout team & get much better results.

Here's a fact on Snead's past drafts on his selection of OL'ers. In his 6 previous drafts where he has utilized 10 of his Ram draft selections on OL'ers only 2 have develop into good long term starters. The others are either not in the NFL or are not considered starters on other teams. None have become pro bowlers. Either it points directly just how hard it is to locate, draft & develop NFL OL'ers today or Snead expertise is not all that proficient in this area. Bare watching in this upcoming draft & beyond. Boudreau might of had something to do with it too?

They deserve a lot of the credit for the offensive improvement this season........

Yes & :yess: Glad you said this. I believe this solid fact is so often overlooked here.

.........Saffold might have played himself into a extension ?

Another solid gold nugget of wisdom! Sign him yesterday ASAP!

The recent newly revised (SOM) Snead Operational Manual {updated late 2017}....may offer us a few insights on what Snead may do in 2018..... will he return to the 2012 thru 2016 era where his results are weak @ best or will he keep his SOM by his side with the new highly successful John Sullivan/Andrew Whitworth path.

 

[OldSchool]

Last time Snead drafted any OT's is was back in 2015. Snead did not select any OL'ers in the last 2 drafts (2016/2017). Back to 2015/2014 Snead selected 6 (SIX) OT's in 2 drafts:

Isaiah Battle 5th rd. cut
Jamon brown 3rd rd. Starts @ OG
Andrew Donnal 4th rd. cut
Rob Havenstien 2nd rd. only starting OT.
Greg Robinson 1st rd. traded
Mitch Van Dyk 7th rd. released

Only one of the 6 are starting here today @ OT. Not a good paragraph in Snead's resume on the OL. That's a great amount of draft wealth initially invested with some serious long term $$$ cap costs lost with very little in return @ the position of OT. I would hope that Kromer, who will get another chance to be involved in his first OL draft selection in 2018 draft will assist Snead & his scout team & get much better results.

Here's a fact on Snead's past drafts on his selection of OL'ers. In his 6 previous drafts where he has utilized 10 of his Ram draft selections on OL'ers only 2 have develop into good long term starters. The others are either not in the NFL or are not considered starters on other teams. None have become pro bowlers. Either it points directly just how hard it is to locate, draft & develop NFL OL'ers today or Snead expertise is not all that proficient in this area. Bare watching in this upcoming draft & beyond. Boudreau might of had something to do with it too?
Yes & :yess: Glad you said this. I believe this solid fact is so often overlooked here.

Another solid gold nugget of wisdom! Sign him yesterday ASAP!

The recent newly revised (SOM) Snead Operational Manual {updated late 2017}....may offer us a few insights on what Snead may do in 2018..... will he return to the 2012 thru 2016 era where his results are weak @ best or will he keep his SOM by his side with the new highly successful John Sullivan/Andrew Whitworth path.

Let’s not throw Snead under the bus for those drafts please. Keep. In mind selections were for Fisher and Boudreau. Let’s see. How he does getting players for McVay and Kromer. As we’ve seen most ROD members would have a better track record with the OLine than Fisher and Bou.

 

[BonifayRam]

.....................and see if we can sign a Pugh and that would solve everything as he can play tackle or guard that's money well spent and then draft can be defense heavy.

You are the first member here to mention Justin Pugh beside me. I realty find the talents & skills that Pugh brings would be a perfect fit in with the Rams. Only thing that concerns me is the back injury he suffered in 2017. But he is much younger that John Sullivan too. JP is a proven NFL starter @ LG & RT. He has college experience @ 4 OL posts excluding OC.

Now entering his 6th NFL season & being only 27 yrs old with his past 5 as a starter has serious experience that this Rams OL could utilize well into the future. JP can be an instant plug in @ either OG post or @ RT if the Rams were to loose all three of our current starters after 2018. Presently Rams do not have a reserve RT or LT under contract.

 

[BonifayRam]

Let’s not throw Snead under the bus for those drafts please. Keep. In mind selections were for Fisher and Boudreau. Let’s see. How he does getting players for McVay and Kromer. As we’ve seen most ROD members would have a better track record with the OLine than Fisher and Bou.

Show me where I was getting ready to throw Snead under the bus? Did you see my Boudreau comment? Just mentioning Boudreau carries big weight in my mind. You know I am a serious Snead supporter but his record involving drafting OL'ers in far from what it is when dealing with the defensive side.

Much of the comments in this thread involves conversations on drafting OL'ers particularity OT's in the 2nd & 3rd days of the upcoming 2018 draft. Naturally I would find it important to being up the recent past of Snead in this area or would you prefer that it not be said?

 

[OldSchool]

Show me where I threw Snead under the bus ? Did you see my Boudreau comment?

This is one of multiple posts critical of his oline picks. “Not a good paragraph in his draft history, lot of draft capital and cap $$ spent for little return”. “Or Snead’s expertise is. Not in the OLine area.” Interesting that two of those guys were drafted to be guards and not tackles. Give the man a chance to work with real offensive coaches is all I’m saying before we start labeling him bad at drafting OLine because we all know Fisher had control.

 

[BonifayRam]

This is one of multiple posts critical of his oline picks. “Not a good paragraph in his draft history, lot of draft capital and cap $$ spent for little return”. “Or Snead’s expertise is. Not in the OLine area.” Interesting that two of those guys were drafted to be guards and not tackles. Give the man a chance to work with real offensive coaches is all I’m saying before we start labeling him bad at drafting OLine because we all know Fisher had control.

OK I do believe that Fisher let Boudreau have a heavy hand in the selections of most of those OL draft selections. I am still not sure just where the ultimate authority ended up at...but I am of the opinion that Fisher played a large part in the poor results in our OL performance prior to 2017. However we do know that Snead/GRob connection was there.

I have given Snead great:bow: praise on the change of direction on the OL this past season OldSchool certainly you have to admit that. At this point in time we have ZERO examples of his OL drafting without Fisher/Boudreau.....Snead would appear to have a great opportunity this upcoming draft with 6 available third day draft selections that fits in nicely to the original article does it not??

In my small one working brain cell the jury is still on out Snead's abilities on selecting good potential OL prospects....you & I will have some good discussions into the future on how this ends up like we have in the past. I know this Kromer is NOOOOO Boudreau....:yess:

 

[Merlin]

I'm not even remotely worried about this OL for the 2018 season. The problem with this unit is 2019 when FA is poised to decimate things plus you have both Whit and Sully another year longer in the tooth.

Demoff isn't going to be able to or willing to pay all these guys, there's gonna have to be decisions made on who gets signed for the 2019+ window. And draft capital will need to be spent in this draft, even if it's just a midround pick with a late round and UDFA push.

The key here is what Demoff does before the FA period. Does he remove one of the potential 2019 departures from among Saff/Hav/Brown by signing one of them? Or maybe gets both Hav and Brown locked up with fair/affordable deals? It all starts there.

 

[So Ram]

Last time Snead drafted any OT's is was back in 2015. Snead did not select any OL'ers in the last 2 drafts (2016/2017). Back to 2015/2014 Snead selected 6 (SIX) OT's in 2 drafts:

Isaiah Battle 5th rd. cut
Jamon brown 3rd rd. Starts @ OG
Andrew Donnal 4th rd. cut
Rob Havenstien 2nd rd. only starting OT.
Greg Robinson 1st rd. traded
Mitch Van Dyk 7th rd. released

Only one of the 6 are starting here today @ OT. Not a good paragraph in Snead's resume on the OL. That's a great amount of draft wealth initially invested with some serious long term $$$ cap costs lost with very little in return @ the position of OT. I would hope that Kromer, who will get another chance to be involved in his first OL draft selection in 2018 draft will assist Snead & his scout team & get much better results.

Here's a fact on Snead's past drafts on his selection of OL'ers. In his 6 previous drafts where he has utilized 10 of his Ram draft selections on OL'ers only 2 have develop into good long term starters. The others are either not in the NFL or are not considered starters on other teams. None have become pro bowlers. Either it points directly just how hard it is to locate, draft & develop NFL OL'ers today or Snead expertise is not all that proficient in this area. Bare watching in this upcoming draft & beyond. Boudreau might of had something to do with it too?
Yes & :yess: Glad you said this. I believe this solid fact is so often overlooked here.

Another solid gold nugget of wisdom! Sign him yesterday ASAP!

The recent newly revised (SOM) Snead Operational Manual {updated late 2017}....may offer us a few insights on what Snead may do in 2018..... will he return to the 2012 thru 2016 era where his results are weak @ best or will he keep his SOM by his side with the new highly successful John Sullivan/Andrew Whitworth path.

The fact The Rams traded up in 2013 was dumb to draft an undersized wr/rb or as college scouting says athlete .

Alex Ogletree was a great pick by Snead by trading back. If they didn’t draft him it would have been Larry Worford who would have been a nice FA pick up & just made it to the Pro Bowl with the Saints.

Just trading up took that option away. I don’t know what influence Jeff Fisher had on the draft. I think a lot. Same question would be who was it that want to extend Tavon Austin again to his HUGE contract ? That’s my question.
—I also think having Tavon on the roster cost The Rams 2 games because of his fumbles & trying to figure out how to give him play time(snaps) ?

Then in 2014 The Rams draft was a disaster. They save themselves with Aaron Donald & EJ Gaines.

Trading up for Joyner & not trading back the #2 pick was mind boggling. That said Snead really wanted to draft Zack Martin if Donald wasn't there. That said Fisher had a little crush on Johnny Football from Silver.

What we can go by now is what the Kromer dooving forward. It a whole new regime.

Barrett was a bust & Freaking Fisher would never cut Rhaney who was ware of a roster spot.

 

[Soul Surfer]

Bonifay, don't forget Demetrius Rhaney, drafted in 2014 who we actually got some use out of.

It looks like he's still on the Redskins roster.

 

[pmil66]

Isaiah Battle 5th rd. cut
Jamon brown 3rd rd. Starts @ OG
Andrew Donnal 4th rd. cut
Rob Havenstien 2nd rd. only starting OT.
Greg Robinson 1st rd. traded
Mitch Van Dyk 7th rd. released

Both starters were top 3 round picks, Rams could have drafted Matthews (my preference) instead of Grob. Wonder how that stacks up with other teams OL drafting. Developing lower round picks into starters is a good sign you have a very good OL coach.

 

[BonifayRam]

Bonifay, don't forget Demetrius Rhaney, drafted in 2014 who we actually got some use out of.

It looks like he's still on the Redskins roster.

Thanks Soul Surfer.....how could I have forgotten this mighty mite OL'er. Yes another "Fail Mode" example Ram drafted OL'er.