Rams going back to Keenum

[jrry32]

All of those guys got a full camp with the starters and every practice of the season with the starters. I think the fact that he really hasn't developed *any* chemistry with the receivers or line would make for some bad football. But as others have already pointed out, how can it get much worse?

You don't create chemistry by sitting on the bench.

 

[CoachO]

Why will it do more harm than good? He got 4 years of starting experience in college under a former NFL HC. Guys like Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota, Derek Carr, Blake Bortles, etc. can play as rookies and not have it wreck their careers.(and I thought Bortles definitely should have sat) What is going to happen to ruin his development?

I'll tell you this much, if he doesn't play, the Rams are going to have to go out and get a QB. And if that QB is a first round draft pick, Mannion has little hope of supplanting that guy. Only chance he has is if that QB isn't ready. But even then, he'll likely be pushed aside once that QB is unless Mannion proves to be amazing.

Not playing him hurts him a lot more than playing him.

If he had been getting regular reps for the past 3 months then I would agree with you.

But to say it wouldn't harm him IMO is being short sighted.

All of the other guys you mentioned were 1st round picks and were brought in and handed the starter job from the get go.

This team is in shambles and to throw Mannion to the proverbial wolves IMO would in fact do more harm than good. I'm not sure why you think that just because they don't play Mannion will force them to go out and get another QB. That makes no since to me.

It's ok to disagree on this. I just don't share your opinion. I guess we will see how things pan out over the next month

 

[CoachO]

I can agree with starting and playing Keenum, but I might consider promoting Mannion to #2 and getting him some reps in practice. Right now he gets virtually zero reps in practice, at least if he got a few they could get more of an idea as to what they've got without throwing him to the dogs. And I would consider putting him in games in similar situations to the one in Cincinnati when he got to play a little bit, i.e. after the other team has called off the dogs.

I agree the need to get him in mine as the #2. But don't mistake that with getting a ton of reps during the week.

What reps he will get are running the scout team against our defense. Which is better than why he gets as #3.

If they can find spot action like they did last week in Cincy great. But to put him in there for the sake of getting him on the field is foolish IMO.

 

[thirteen28]

I agree the need to get him in mine as the #2. But don't mistake that with getting a ton of reps during the week.

What reps he will get are running the scout team against our defense. Which is better than why he gets as #3.

If they can find spot action like they did last week in Cincy great. But to put him in there for the sake of getting him on the field is foolish IMO.

Any reps he gets in practice will be better than the zero reps he's getting now.

 

[Alaskan Ram]

If he had been getting regular reps for the past 3 months then I would agree with you.

But to say it wouldn't harm him IMO is being short sighted.

All of the other guys you mentioned were 1st round picks and were brought in and handed the starter job from the get go.

This team is in shambles and to throw Mannion to the proverbial wolves IMO would in fact do more harm than good. I'm not sure why you think that just because they don't play Mannion will force them to go out and get another QB. That makes no since to me.

It's ok to disagree on this. I just don't share your opinion. I guess we will see how things pan out over the next month

I can buy that he shouldn't be thrown to the wolves if he hasn't had any meaningful reps.
You know what I don't get?
HOW THE FUCK CAN YOUR 3RD ROUND QUARTERBACK NOT HAVE ANY GODDAMN MEANINGFUL REPS THIS FAR INTO THE SEASON?

He knows the playbook. He's worked with receivers. He's shadowed the 1 and 2. This is a good team. A few 3rd down conversions might actually jump start a running game. Foles is playing like he's trying to throw the game. I've never seen such poor passing from a professional QB. Underthrown, overthrown, late with the throw, poor processing, he has completely lost all ability to play the position and is a liability to his teammates.

If Mannion isn't ready, then no, he shouldn't start.
He needs meaningful reps this week and the rest of the year as our new 2. Foles goes to scout team.
If ANYTHING else happens this week during updates, I'm done watching for the rest of the year.

Go Rams.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Methinks Mannion will get his reps and playing time when the team is officially out of the playoff hunt. Not sure that's the case officially yet anyway.

I didn't go to practices, but the Mannion I saw during preseason probably wouldn't have even made the team if he weren't a 3rd round choice.

 

[jrry32]

If he had been getting regular reps for the past 3 months then I would agree with you.

But to say it wouldn't harm him IMO is being short sighted.

This team is in shambles and to throw Mannion to the proverbial wolves IMO would in fact do more harm than good. I'm not sure why you think that just because they don't play Mannion will force them to go out and get another QB. That makes no since to me.

It's ok to disagree on this. I just don't share your opinion. I guess we will see how things pan out over the next month

You've clearly seen the QBs we've played this year. Mannion is a 3rd down pick with next to no experience. If he were a 1st round pick, that would be a different story. The Rams cannot pass on talented QBs for a 3rd round pick that hasn't shown anything on the field. They're not in a position to do that.

If Mannion doesn't play and tear it up, they're obligated to go out and try to find a legitimate starting QB.

It won't harm him. What is the harm it is going to cause?

All of the other guys you mentioned were 1st round picks and were brought in and handed the starter job from the get go.

BTW, I could also name some non-first round picks that were brought in, not handed the starting job, and it didn't kill their careers when they had to play as rookies. In addition to that, your point isn't technically correct. Bortles wasn't handed the starter job from the get go. Derek Carr wasn't a first round pick.

 

[Dodgersrf]

I would start Keenum and let him play out the rest of the season. Mannion isn't near ready and putting him that situation just "to see what he has" isn't fair to him or the rest of the team.

If you have any hopes of developing him, throwing him out there under these conditions will do more harm than good. Let him come into OTAs & training camp and open up the job. Bring him in day one and let him know he can compete for the starter's job.

Foles is done. (For the rest of this year anyway) Mentally he is toast. I didn't have high expectations of him after seeing him in training camp. But even I didn't think he'd be this bad. He just looks lost. And unfortunately if you put Mannion in there at this point you're likely to get the same sort of "deer in the headlights" look.

Everyone who makes an evaluation of Keenum almost always says something along the lines of "he may be worse". Or he MAY NOT be any better. IMO he gives them the best chance to be competitive. His only opportunity was in less than ideal conditions. (Flacco was just as bad for much of that game). Let's put him in the dome and see what he can accomplish.

I'm not saying he's any long term solution. But he is the best they have to run out there at the moment.

Foles looks like he doesn't even know the offense.
He's waiting for guys to get open before throwing the ball. By the time he does, the window is closed.
It's as if he doesn't know where these guys are going to be.

 

[RamBill]

Jeff Fisher says QB Case Keenum will start next Sunday
By Nick Wagoner

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14306548/st-louis-rams-qb-case-keenum-starter-detroit-lions

ST. LOUIS -- Rams coach Jeff Fisher left no doubt about whom his starting quarterback will be next Sunday when the Rams play the Detroit Lions.

Immediately after Sunday's 27-3 loss to the Arizona Cardinals, Fisher declared that Case Keenum will return to the starting role he had before suffering a concussion late in the team's loss to Baltimore on Nov. 22. Nick Foles started the past two weeks as Keenum worked through the NFL's concussion protocol.


"We'll go ahead this coming week, and Case will be our starter," Fisher said. "I'm not blaming this on Nick, but I don't have the philosophy where a player is going to lose his job because of injury. Case did not get reps on Wednesday and Thursday, so that's the reason he did not start [Sunday]. So he'll be our starter next week."

Fisher had maintained that stance all along but wasn't able to go back to Keenum this week or last against Cincinnati because Keenum had been unable to clear the final tests to play. Keenum was limited in practice each of the past two weeks and worked with the scout team last week. According to Fisher, Keenum felt good enough Saturday to clear the concussion protocol and serve as Foles' backup against the Cardinals.

"He was good enough to be the 2; he just didn't have the reps," Fisher said. "So we had Case at the 2 because of the understanding and experience.

"So Case will go back, and he'll be the starter."


Foles struggled against Arizona on Sunday, going 15-of-35 for 146 yards with no touchdowns and an interception for a passer rating of 43.3. Asked after the game if he was OK with returning to the bench, Foles said he'd prefer to play but understands the decision.

"I respect Coach Fisher and I love Case Keenum," Foles said. "I want to be out there. But at the same time, I respect Coach Fisher and I'm going to do everything I can to help Case along and help him succeed out there and help this team succeed.

"So whatever I can do to help Case with, I'm going to do, just like he's always done for me because I think he's a heck of a player and I know he's a heck of a person and a great leader."

Rookie Sean Mannion returned to his role at the Rams' No. 3 quarterback on Sunday after working mop-up duty for Foles against the Bengals last week. Fisher indicated that Mannion might get a chance before the season is over but he preferred to have Keenum as Foles' backup against Arizona.

"That's doesn't mean necessarily that Sean isn't going to get an opportunity to play here down the stretch but I'd rather have Case as the two," Fisher said.

 

[Loyal]

Wow. I was asking a sincere question. Don't get your panties all bunched up.

I honestly was wondering who the "we" was. But thanks for getting all pissy.

I don't think so. You were trying to put me down for a simple written convention, of meaning "we" as an interested and invested Rams fans. You were trying to put me in my place, and I called you on it

Interesting that YOU include yourself in the collective group of actual team personnel because you have an emotional attachment

Not really, but whatever

And before you take shots at me for my screenname I challenge you or anyone else on here to question my "fandom" when it comes to being committed to this team. (and by that I don't mean to say I am a better fan the anyone else on here)

Now who's touchy? The quotations, or "CoachO" was simply meant that I don't know if you are a real coach or not. So please quote exactly where I put down your fandom? I accept your chest beating as authentic

I think everyone knows I have made a point to be at EVERY training camp practices for the past five years. Have been to every single home game and my share of road games for the past 19 years. So while my Pen name may be "CoachO" I am first and foremost a fan.

Yes, I know..I read your first reports on StlToday Rams forum 5 years ago, and enjoyed them mostly

But I don't claim to have any expectations about what "we" need to see when it comes to personnel decisions. YOU seem to infer "we" are entitled to have some say in the process.

No, you assumed.that. I was speaking as a fan on a fan forum. Again, you don't like the word "we" because it seems to be a pet peave of yours.

Good luck with that.

[/quote]

 

[Moostache]

What has Case done to deserve THAT?
Man, Case, fake a head ache at the next concussion protocol review....or twist an ankle in the shower....or slam the car door on your hand....or just don't bother being on time for meetings or the team bus.

Hell, if you want to avoid having the worst offense in the last 25 years of NFL football end you career, you need to avoid the field at all costs...and I am only about 5% kidding with this...

 

[Mojo Ram]

Foles looks like he doesn't even know the offense.

This is really it in a nutshell. He doesn't know where to put the ball. He didn't just suddenly become a completely inaccurate passer, he doesn't know the routes or hot reads....and when he does make the correct read he's LATE....ALWAYS.

He doesn't act like a shellshocked QB who has taken too many hits. I'm not buying that. Sure the protection sucks but we've all seen what a scared QB looks like. Foles is lost. Is that because Foles isn't a pro QB mentally or is it preparation and coaching? Both?

 

[LesBaker]

IT was a huge helmet to the sternum cheap shot from Matthewa that went unflaged (because Rams of course) but it should t have messed him up this bad??

I've been wondering and have mentioned that maybe Foles is dinged up from the hits and I had forgotten about that one.

He's never looked this bad, something is up..........

 

[kurtfaulk]

.

if you extrapolate foles last 4 games to a full season he would end up with 0 tds and 20 ints.






.

.

 

[-X-]

You don't create chemistry by sitting on the bench.

Hmm. I never thought of it that way.

Oh wait. Of course I did.

All I said was, he hasn't developed it at this point because he hasn't worked with any of them. You of course have seen how bad it looks when a QB and WRs aren't on the same page. It looks stupid. But again, as I said, it can't possibly look any worse than it has with Foles behind center. And that's why I'm fine with promoting him (Mannion) to the #2 for the rest of the season and putting Foles with the scout team. Unfortunately, that's not gonna happen. Regardless of how any of us feel about Fisher or Foles, you simply don't make your starter the #3 unless he completely screws up *off* the field.

 

[jrry32]

Hmm. I never thought of it that way.

Oh wait. Of course I did.

All I said was, he hasn't developed it at this point because he hasn't worked with any of them. You of course have seen how bad it looks when a QB and WRs aren't on the same page. It looks stupid. But again, as I said, it can't possibly look any worse than it has with Foles behind center. And that's why I'm fine with promoting him (Mannion) to the #2 for the rest of the season and putting Foles with the scout team. Unfortunately, that's not gonna happen. Regardless of how any of us feel about Fisher or Foles, you simply don't make your starter the #3 unless he completely screws up *off* the field.

Yep. I have. But I don't think the chemistry issue is as big as we believe. Mannion has been here all year. Even if he hasn't gotten a lot of reps, I'm sure he's had opportunities to throw with these guys. He knows the offense which will make a difference. Maybe there is a breaking in period. But I'd rather deal with that and see what he has to offer. Get him the reps he need. And the best type of reps at this point will come in real time.

 

[-X-]

Yep. I have. But I don't think the chemistry issue is as big as we believe. Mannion has been here all year. Even if he hasn't gotten a lot of reps, I'm sure he's had opportunities to throw with these guys. He knows the offense which will make a difference. Maybe there is a breaking in period. But I'd rather deal with that and see what he has to offer. Get him the reps he need. And the best type of reps at this point will come in real time.

I agree and disagree. The chemistry issue is a pretty big deal and that's been borne out across the years on many many teams. That said, I'd like to see him promoted to #2 behind Keenum from here on out and put Keenum on a short leash. And here's why. Nearly every Rams fan is done with Foles and they have zero faith in Keenum. If Mannion starts the rest of our games, and the Rams lose anyway, it's still going to be easier on the fan base because it means the Rams are investing in the future ... now. It's easy enough to ease Mannion into the game behind a run game and with short passes. If this team falls behind in another game, quickly, then it really doesn't matter who the QB is. There simply isn't enough fire power in this offense to play catch-up. So what can it hurt?

 

[jrry32]

I agree and disagree. The chemistry issue is a pretty big deal and that's been borne out across the years on many many teams. That said, I'd like to see him promoted to #2 behind Keenum from here on out and put Keenum on a short leash. And here's why. Nearly every Rams fan is done with Foles and they have zero faith in Keenum. If Mannion starts the rest of our games, and the Rams lose anyway, it's still going to be easier on the fan base because it means the Rams are investing in the future ... now. It's easy enough to ease Mannion into the game behind a run game and with short passes. If this team falls behind in another game, quickly, then it really doesn't matter who the QB is. There simply isn't enough fire power in this offense to play catch-up. So what can it hurt?

My issue is that the longer you wait, the less his performance changes anything. You need a decent sized sample size for it to mean anything. We're already up against that wall.(I'd discount anything less than 4 games unless he's absolutely unreal)

 

[-X-]

My issue is that the longer you wait, the less his performance changes anything. You need a decent sized sample size for it to mean anything. We're already up against that wall.(I'd discount anything less than 4 games unless he's absolutely unreal)

I can see the benefit in that too. Try to win one with Mannion and get him entrenched as the starter for next year.

And if they did do that (not likely), I have to wonder what they'd do with Foles' contract next year. Pretty big hit to take while simultaneously admitting you fucked it all up by extending him in the first place. Do these guys have the humility to do that? I don't think so. Do they still think that Foles is a viable option going into next year? Probably. It's almost like they get a little bit of film where everything's going right, so they think that to get it back on track again, they simply have to get everything else going right again for the QB to look efficient again. At some point they have to try and find a QB who can do more right than wrong when things *aren't* all hunky dory out there. I get the injury problem and the O-line situation, but there were still PLENTY of plays left out on the field regardless of that situation. Having bad QB play only compounds the problem. It's not always the result of the problem.

 

[Alan]

Lot's of good points both pro and con about starting Mannion but it's all pretty much moot considering who our HC is. Fisher has already shown that he'll start experience over talent all day long. I just don't see him putting in Mannion (I'm not saying he has any) for any significant playing time. I hope I'm wrong and he gets a few quarters worth of experience before the season ends.