Rams draft signals confidence in O-Line

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BonifayRam

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Reading this...and we have ALWAYS gotten along, so hear me out...seems like you're trying to start shit. Lol maybe the guy just doesn't like them and it doesn't matter what they do. His right...but that's between y'all.

I pose the opposite to you. Other than great wingspan on Joe, what makes you believe either has "earned a spot"? And that's not me being a smart ass.

My personal take. I Love Allen's passion and try hard, he just didn't seem imposing to me when he had a chance. Noteboom, imo, has certainly flashed and deserves a spot to compete for Guard. But I'm not nearly as passionate about either one as you seem to be. I missed several games last year cause i don't have the ability to stream, and i dont have direct.
Yes, we have always enjoyed our conversations since we both arrive back in 2013. You should know by now I always go deep into detail.

I was really interested in getting a deeper understanding on his position on Noteboom since he has been one of the displeased members on Noteboom. It's that simple.

For me asking questions is sometimes a way of learning something I might have not known.

Now on to your question... If you have read my many past posts on Noteboom (& there have been an abundant amount) you would know the answer to your question. Just use ROD's forums search.

I will always try very hard to prevent any manufacturing of :poop: in this forum.
 
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Malibu

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Im with ya, and yea I think the line will absolutely be better than last year. It has to right? Just how much is to be determined..

A lot of people want to see Boom or Allen starting or as primary backups and I just think they didn't earn it with their play last year. Was not pleased with either of them at all, so I would rather have someone else get a shot if we suffer an injury to see what else we have. If Hav can get back to his normal self, and the interior is better than last year, plus more 2-TE sets we might be okay.

The pass blocking was bad last year, but I wonder how much of the run game woes fell on Gurley's shoulders. Moving on from him + standing pat with the o-line leads me to believe McVay wasn't too happy with him or Henderson last year. The lack of running game had a cascade effect on the passing game, as we were constantly in 2nd and 3rd and longs which put Goff and the young o-line in tough spots. I'm super excited about Akers tbh.
The run game sucked because the ol sucked. When Gurley didn't have first contact on average of 3' in 17 & 18 and first contact was in 19 6" that tells you how bad the line was. There were hardly any holes to run through last year no RB would have done well.

The worst part of all this we have the same crew back who produced the 6" before contact that was 4 worst in the league.

I too believe Snead/McVays blindspot is the ol the same can be said for Martz.

Imo we needed to invest in two upgrades and we didn't. When Saffold left and we had such a bad year last year with the ol it should have been a major wake-up call to them to prioritize the line more. We have 2nd rounders and the rest lower round drafted players.

Look at NO they let an all pro in Warford go because of Ruiz and McCoy. They value their OL we don't.
 

Rams43

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About the ‘20 Rams OL...

The powers-that-be have concluded that it was best to give players already on the roster an opportunity to gel and grow together rather than a merry go round of adding any OL player that might fall to them through rounds 2-4. The die is cast and we can only hope that they got this right.

Having said that, while it’s fun to discuss the pros and cons of Player A vs Player B at various positions, I intend to mostly let this starting OL sort itself out this summer. Other than Big Whit at LOT, the rest of the 4 starters are written in pencil, I think. And seeing Boom getting significant snaps at LOT by midseason wouldn’t exactly stun me, either.

I kinda expect a surprise or two between now and September, tbh. Should be fun to watch how this starting OL puzzle gets solved.
 

den-the-coach

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I think Evans is one of our "strongest 5," which means Corbet would have to move to C. Not sure how likely that is since Blythe is getting paid, but he'd be a great experienced next man up for the interior.

I thought that too, having Evans at LG, where he could be Saffold like and Kromer has mentioned when he worked out Corbett that he could transition to Center nicely, but McVay made a comment how everything seem to get better when Austin Blythe moved to Center with the line calls and knowing the offense much like John Sullivan, so with those comments I believe Blythe will be at Center barring injury.
 

BonifayRam

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I thought that too, having Evans at LG, where he could be Saffold like and Kromer has mentioned when he worked out Corbett that he could transition to Center nicely, but McVay made a comment how everything seem to get better when Austin Blythe moved to Center with the line calls and knowing the offense much like John Sullivan, so with those comments I believe Blythe will be at Center barring injury.
Looks like we are morphing into this as of late.

I also have voice lately my thoughts that IF Noteboom was to return to full health & take up the Swing OT position (#6 OL'er) & Hav returns to 2018 form then Evans who was a starter over the last half of 2019 may be the non-starting OL'er to push hard to spread out from the OT posts to direct his work on the LG post if Corbett was to fail to improve as desired.
 

PressureD41

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I would kill for a detailed rehab update on Noteboom.
I wonder if he's strictly an OT moving forward after he didn't do so good inside.
 

Mister Sin

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Looks like we are morphing into this as of late.

I also have voice lately my thoughts that IF Noteboom was to return to full health & take up the Swing OT position (#6 OL'er) & Hav returns to 2018 form then Evans who was a starter over the last half of 2019 may be the non-starting OL'er to push hard to spread out from the OT posts to direct his work on the LG post if Corbett was to fail to improve as desired.


I really thought Evans did a great job subbing in. I hope to get 2018 Hav back, but if not, for the savings, i feel good about Edwards and Evans on the right side. Not sure how Goff feels...but I'm okay with it!
 

den-the-coach

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Not communicating that Corbett with get time at Center, just that back when Kromer was working him out, he mentioned him as a Center candidate. Overall, it will be Blythe with most likely Brain Allen backing him up, but next year, when Blythe is a free agent and maybe OTA's & Training Camp are back to normalcy, we might get a look at some new candidates then.
 

PARAM

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They were not rookies, people need to stop giving them a pass and using that as an excuse. They were 2nd year players being groomed for their moment for over an entire year while we went to the super bowl, then they came in and fell on their face. Or the other narrative thrown around here "oh noteboom was out of position." Its a shit excuse, good players flash something. As we saw last year with both Evans and Edwards, rookie olineman can come in and make an immediate impact. Edwards was playing out of position too. And they only had months of professional coaching, not a year and a half.

I agree that Blythe will be starting at C as indifferent as I am about that. And honestly I saw enough of Allen and Noteboom last year for a while. Let their ass sit on the bench and give other people a shot, they had their chance.

Noteboom played in 2018 at LT and from what I remember, he flashed. There are a lot of fans who judged his play at LG against how he looked in limited action at LT and claim he "regressed". Did he in fact regress? Or was it a new position for him? Or was his play in 2018 not as good as some thought it was? Or is he the LT of our future? I, for one am not an OL connoisseur but I thought he looked pretty good at LT for a rookie. And I wonder how many fans voicing displeasure with his 6 game performance at LG know all that much about OL play?

A lot of people want to see Boom or Allen starting or as primary backups and I just think they didn't earn it with their play last year. Was not pleased with either of them at all, so I would rather have someone else get a shot if we suffer an injury to see what else we have. If Hav can get back to his normal self, and the interior is better than last year, plus more 2-TE sets we might be okay.

The pass blocking was bad last year, but I wonder how much of the run game woes fell on Gurley's shoulders. Moving on from him + standing pat with the o-line leads me to believe McVay wasn't too happy with him or Henderson last year. The lack of running game had a cascade effect on the passing game, as we were constantly in 2nd and 3rd and longs which put Goff and the young o-line in tough spots. I'm super excited about Akers tbh.

So because their play was suspect (in your eyes and others who may or may not know anything about OL play), you don't want them as next man up once they're healthy in 2020? I don't have much argument about Brian Allen because 2019 was his first real action (he took 36 snaps in 2018) but Noteboom? You want the 5th rounder and the guy we traded for starting ahead of Noteboom as well as a couple of UDFA's on the depth chart? Does that really make sense to you?

And one other question; Who are these offensive lineman we could have had in the 3rd and 4th rounds this year, who were going to start in 2020 OR make the roster and become starters in the near future?
 
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iamme33

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I think Evans is one of our "strongest 5," which means Corbet would have to move to C. Not sure how likely that is since Blythe is getting paid, but he'd be a great experienced next man up for the interior.
I am concerned about how many if there are on our ol. I'll start with if age doesn't catch up with whit. if the sophomore slump doesn't hit our rookies from last year. if corbett is good enough to take over center from blythe.if havenstien can return to play like 2 years ago. if havenstien and whit have trouble can Evens or Edwards take over. if corbett takes over center who plays lg could this be a spot for anchrum or blythe. any way there are just alot of ifs to overcome just to get to a slightly above average ol. all i can do is trust in kromer coaching them up and mcvay scheming around them. oh well onward and upwards right to sb 2020

man oh man have i beat this topic to death me think me smells decompostion. am leaving this for now.
 

CGI_Ram

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The offensive line has been one of our more debated topics...

Maybe we need a poll on where the oline ranking finishes... depending on your vote vs end result... losers chug a beer!:horns:
 

MachS

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@MachS do you have the time to entertain & respond to some of my questions?


I am one of the members here that would hope that OT Joseph Noteboom along with his 83 1/2 inch wingspan will be fully recovered to be our primary top reserve LT in case of injury & the main OL'er who can spell Whitworth in games & in weekly practices as needed.

Question, can you tell me why Noteboom did not earn his position/place as main back to the Whitworth @ LT during his 2018 rookie season ?

What did Noteboom do that made you have such a low opinion of his skills & talents that would deny him his position as a top LT back up?



I was NOT contented with the outcomes in performances with both Noteboom/Allen very short 2019 seasons either.

Is your position of not being pleased with Noteboom/Allen body of work include its totality of the 2018/2019 seasons?

Or is it based on the small 1/3 season (5 complete gms) of Noteboom playing in a new position @ OG & Allen half a season (8 completed gms as starting OC) that made you so displeased?


Who is that someone or someone's that you would rather get the shot @ the back up LT positions in place of a fully recovered Noteboom?

I am truly interested in your thoughts on the above thank you for your time.

Bonifay I hope they both get healthy and become good players for us. But their play at the beginning of last year wasn't just bad or sub-par, it was horrible. They were getting beat in ways physically that did not give me confidence in them as starters. Yes they were young, yes Noteboom was playing out of position, but to me the physical traits should still show up AT TIMES. Granted I dont have the all-22 film and didnt watch every single snap they played, focusing only on them. But watching games multiple times, watching the whole o-line and witnessing the manner in which they lost their 1-on-1s did not inspire confidence. And honestly at the end of the day in pro football, its about winning your 1-on-1s. That's it. They didn't show a consistent enough ability to compete against average level NFL players, let alone great NFL d-lineman. A lot of people dont like PFF for whatever reason, but I believe their metrics are great because the result of a play doesn't matter. They only evaluate what happens during a play and how each individual performs. And the grades for Boom and Allen were bottom 10%-15% of eligible players for their respective positions. My view would be drastically different if Edwards and Evans didn't come in and play great for rookies. But they did, they both had moments of very good play, and did occasionally struggle at times, but their ability to physically dominate on certain plays was evident on the field. And this came after just a few months of coaching!! Boom and Allen were drafted in 2018 and stashed on the bench for an entire year learning from pro coaches and vets, anticipating them taking over the following year. That entire learning process, off-season, and confidence from Kromer and the coaches still led to them playing like bottom of the barrel linemen. Yes they're young, but it's year 3 for both of them and we still dont know if they can be good players! The evidence we've seen so far + the fact both are coming off injury, I would say the odds are against them.

Look at John Jonson, Taylor Rapp, Tyler Higbee, SJD, Evans, Edwards, Everett, Cooper Kupp, Franklin Meyers, Obo Okoronkwo, Samson Ebukam, Josh Reynolds. They ALL flashed as rookies or when asked to start. And again, Boom and Allen couldn't flash in their 2nd year after all that coaching? After all that "development" they still got abused once they became starters?

Again I hope they both pan out obviously, but we have people on our roster, whether UDFA or late rounders that have not had a shot to compete yet. Yes I wanted to draft o-line early in the draft and we didnt do that. But I am interested to see our other depth and how they would perform if being forced to start. Why would we not give them a shot? You dont really know how people respond in life until there is pressure to perform. We've seen a snapshot of what Allen and Noteboom can bring to the table and I think it's only fair that someone else get a chance. If one or both of our tackles go down I think the first two replacements should be Evans and Edwards filling in at OT, not Noteboom. Then we slide someone else into the interior, Coleman, Brewer, or the rookie Anchurum...I want to see what they got.
 
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PARAM

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I am concerned about how many if there are on our ol. I'll start with if age doesn't catch up with whit. if the sophomore slump doesn't hit our rookies from last year. if corbett is good enough to take over center from blythe.if havenstien can return to play like 2 years ago. if havenstien and whit have trouble can Evens or Edwards take over. if corbett takes over center who plays lg could this be a spot for anchrum or blythe. any way there are just alot of ifs to overcome just to get to a slightly above average ol. all i can do is trust in kromer coaching them up and mcvay scheming around them. oh well onward and upwards right to sb 2020

man oh man have i beat this topic to death me think me smells decompostion. am leaving this for now.

A couple of things. I think your getting the cart in front of the horse. As John Madden once said, "don't worry about the horse being blind, just load the wagon". Corbett playing center was a Cleveland experiment. I'm not saying he can't play center, just that it isn't his natural position. Some of his strengths indicate he might be able to play center though.

Austin Corbett C/G Nevada 6’4 310 lbs

Corbett is a 4-year starter for Nevada at tackle. He projected to moving inside at the next level. He is the definition of a road grader, frequently battling and fighting his way to creating movement. Corbett is an incredibly situational aware player, keeping his head on a swivel and always looking downfield. He’s a nasty, chippy player that will fight after the whistle. Corbett plays with natural leverage and functional strength, rarely getting moved and relocated off his spot. Corbett rarely gets beat off the snap off the ball, showing outstanding mirror ability and lateral agility. Corbett has helped his RB Butler break rushing records each of the last 2 seasons at Nevada, running for over 1,000 yards each season.

Corbett lacks the ideal size and length to play outside at the NFL level. Corbett isn’t going to impress anyone with his athleticism or raw ability but relies on good technique and awareness. When going up against guys that win the length battle, Corbett struggles to gain inside hands and will allow defenders to shed him quickly in the passing game.

Best Fit: Center or guard

I wonder if Coleman Shelton isn't above Corbett on the C depth chart. He's actually played C. And he's seen some action with the Rams although only 23 offensive snaps.

Coleman Shelton C/G Washington 6’4 295 lbs

Shelton is an incredibly versatile 4-year starter for the Huskies that has played at every position on the offensive line. He’s the most natural at center and where he projects at the next level. Shelton has good length for the position showing an ability to latch on and control blocks. He’s a very impressive guy in the run game, helping the Huskies setting all kinds of rushing records. Shelton is known to be the heart and soul of the offensive line. He shows good initial quickness out of his stance, quickly setting his feet and firing off the ball.

Has some bad habits, notably that he drops his head upon contact. Shelton has some strength concerns and it got exposed quite a bit, especially in pass protection. He fails to adequately widen his stance allowing defenders to get to his outside shoulder far too easily. He’s not consistent enough with his hand placement, allowing guys inside his chest.

Best Fit: Zone center


Any of their weaknesses are coachable. They're both from the 2018 draft class. Corbett was #33 and Shelton was signed by SF. He spent 2018 on the Cardinals PS and last year with the Rams. Corbett also spent his time on the sideline in Cleveland, which is why he was tried at C. Corbett has already played G for the Rams, so there's that. I think Evans is ready to play either G or T for the Rams. He seemed to show more, faster than Edwards or Corbett. After Whitworth and Havenstein when he's on, Evans may be the 3rd best OL we have. I happen to think Noteboom is right there with him IF he's playing OT. Edwards seems to be one of our two starting guards. He improved the more he played, just not as fast as Evans. So we have Corbett for the other G spot. Anchrum might make the squad with the extra roster spots, especially if he's as good as Dabo Sweeney says he is and FWIW, I don't doubt DS as his comments were after the draft IIRC.

Lastly, this topic can be beat to death and survive because it was a concern last off season, last season and this off season. There's no lack of opinion on the subject. Ask anybody going into 2019 and OL was the first off most lips. Ask anybody going into 2020 and it's the same. So there is a lot to talk about. :biggrin:
 

BonifayRam

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Its good afternoon to you while I enjoy my morning coffee.....you sparked my one working brain cell on this post nearly shutdown my entire brain unit.

I would go with Austin Corbett remaining @ the LG post with our #1 TC OL unit. Reason is its highly important in building on the foundation that was built in later half of the 2019 season under the high level of pressure & duress. The experience that should lead to improvement in 2020 for the 3 new starters (Corbett/Blythe/Edwards). What was learned working together needs to continue. Time for constructing OL unity is very short supply at all times in the NFL.

If there is a failure for Corbett to improve his overall effectiveness @ LG after undergoing his first TC & PS then I would shift Corbett out of the #1 unit & replace him with the #2 team LG & keep moving forward. Corbett would then become one of the reserve OL'ers backing up OC/OG posts. Finally, I do not see Corbett being an LT reserve prospect.
 

BonifayRam

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I really thought Evans did a great job subbing in. I hope to get 2018 Hav back, but if not, for the savings, i feel good about Edwards and Evans on the right side. Not sure how Goff feels...but I'm okay with it!
Me too. I have read the comments about that he got help & stuff but overall in the end I thought the RT play was better with Evans than with Havenstein. If throughout TC/PS Kromer concludes Evans & Hav are working & practicing @ the same grade, I'm hope he would go with Evans as starter & build on the OL'er with more tread & who is undamaged. I do think Evans was made to play RT in the NFL. But that only if Noteboom is fully healthy to back up the LT post.

Havenstein with his modest salary cap cost contract could then become Sneads future high value trade tender for teams who have just experienced the loss of their starting RT due to injury in preseason or in the first 6 regular season games before the trading deadline. In the 2021 Rams draft have no draft selections in the first, fourth & fifth rounds. Due to the cost of trading for Jalen Ramsey & Austin Corbett during the regular 2019 season.

Snead has provided Kromer with plenty of young OL'ers who have played OT in college who may be good RT reserves prospects. Besides the fact that Noteboom most likely being the top swing OT reserve..... there is David Edwards, Chandler Brewer, Newly drafted Tremayne Anchrum, Jamil Demby, Coleman Shelton & even UDFA rookie Cohl Cabral was a starting OT.