Rams chat with Jim Thomas: 12/15/15

[jrry32]

I don't attack your solutions. I claim you don't even grasp the problems. If Kappy is your solution, you don't grasp the problem.

Kappy is a horrible QB. Very sucky. He smells like ass and plays like ass.

What the Rams need is a solid o line and a WR that will catch a pass. That's it. It won't make their O great by itself but with Gurley it will. Solid o line springs Gurley for great things. Solid o line allows any of our QBs to make passes to our WR that actually catches passes. Win Win.

You're right. I don't grasp the problem. We're #1 in yards per carry, #2 in sack rate, #1 in fewest sacks allowed, #13 in drop rate (only a few slots away from average), and DEAD LAST in completion percentage, passing yards, passing TDs, yards per attempt, and QB Rating. But you're right. I don't get the problem. I don't get that the problem is every other part of the offense but the QB.

Fuck. I even address the stats and explained why they didn't tell the whole story. I've actually been willing to be rational here. Instead of putting on blinders and going into complete denial at the complete SHIT we've had at QB this year. They've been FAR worse than Shaun Hill, Austin Davis, and Kellen Clemens. Need I say more? What has changed on this team? Oh right, we got a better running game. Oh right, our weapons are now older and more experienced. Oh right, our OL is giving up far less sacks.

Schotty is the only huge change. Maybe he was holding everything together? Who knows. Because it's pretty freaking amazing that Foles and Keenum have failed to reach the low bar set by Hill, Clemens, and Davis. But those 3 guys all had amazing weapons and elite OLs unlike Foles and Keenum.

I'm done here. I'm sure most posters are tired of reading this argument. I know I am and I'm right in the damn middle of it.

 

[jrry32]

Do you really think we would be able to successfully implement a zone read system with Kaepernick? To me it does seem logical, but really the main thing that concerns me is how dependant we'll be on developing our plays from the backend with Gurley, Austin and Kaepernick.

I think we'll always have the occasional bombs on play action, but ideally we need to be able to burn teams with quick strikes when they get caught commiting to our backfield.

I think effective rollouts would be extremely complimentary to our offense though. That's just a natural progression what we already do. Of course, he's always had a nice touch on screens. Overall, I've been intrigued with the idea ever since he fell out of favor with the 49ers.

Yes. You don't even have to run a zone read system. You can create a system that utilizes the zone read and a number of other things that use your QB's mobility as a weapon.

For example, imagine on those plays where Austin goes in motion for the reverse and Gurley takes off up the middle, you also have Kaepernick run a boot-leg to the side of the field that Austin vacated. Now, the defense has to assign a man to watch Austin and a man to watch Kaepernick while also having to guard against Gurley's runs up the middle.

We can install an offense that makes use of Kaepernick's legs. It just takes creativity. Which is why I'd love to see Mike McCoy here as OC next year. He built an offense around Tebow's mobility despite Tebow having far more limited passing ability.

And yes, I agree. He can do enough passing to keep them honest. Not just long bombs but crossing routes, quick slants, out routes, etc. You just have to simplify the offense and minimize his reads.

 

[RamzFanz]

You're right. I don't grasp the problem. We're #1 in yards per carry, #2 in sack rate, #1 in fewest sacks allowed, #13 in drop rate (only a few slots away from average), and DEAD LAST in completion percentage, passing yards, passing TDs, yards per attempt, and QB Rating. But you're right. I don't get the problem. I don't get that the problem is every other part of the offense but the QB.

freak. I even address the stats and explained why they didn't tell the whole story. I've actually been willing to be rational here. Instead of putting on blinders and going into complete denial at the complete crap we've had at QB this year. They've been FAR worse than Shaun Hill, Austin Davis, and Kellen Clemens. Need I say more? What has changed on this team? Oh right, we got a better running game. Oh right, our weapons are now older and more experienced. Oh right, our OL is giving up far less sacks.

Schotty is the only huge change. Maybe he was holding everything together? Who knows. Because it's pretty freaking amazing that Foles and Keenum have failed to reach the low bar set by Hill, Clemens, and Davis. But those 3 guys all had amazing weapons and elite OLs unlike Foles and Keenum.

I'm done here. I'm sure most posters are tired of reading this argument. I know I am and I'm right in the damn middle of it.

TLDR

Yes, point made. You ignore that the sack rate is because our QBs are both good at avoiding sacks and our completion rate has to do with dropped passes, poor line play, as well as poor passing. You want to hate a person, so be it. It's not football relevant.

Are you really saying Rams have a good o-line?

 

[Mojo Ram]

To me it does seem logical, but really the main thing that concerns me is how dependant we'll be on developing our plays from the backend with Gurley, Austin and Kaepernick.

We're both on the same page here, as i've been banging on that all season(The St Louis Rams line of scrimmage show!)
But i think all we're saying is that if you add the scrambling/read option ability to what we've been doing it's an improvement.

I would hate to have to guard against a scrambling QB along with trying to keep an eye on Austin running around and stacking the box to contain Gurley.

 

[NateDawg122]

You're right. I don't grasp the problem. We're #1 in yards per carry, #2 in sack rate, #1 in fewest sacks allowed, #13 in drop rate (only a few slots away from average), and DEAD LAST in completion percentage, passing yards, passing TDs, yards per attempt, and QB Rating. But you're right. I don't get the problem. I don't get that the problem is every other part of the offense but the QB.

freak. I even address the stats and explained why they didn't tell the whole story. I've actually been willing to be rational here. Instead of putting on blinders and going into complete denial at the complete crap we've had at QB this year. They've been FAR worse than Shaun Hill, Austin Davis, and Kellen Clemens. Need I say more? What has changed on this team? Oh right, we got a better running game. Oh right, our weapons are now older and more experienced. Oh right, our OL is giving up far less sacks.

Schotty is the only huge change. Maybe he was holding everything together? Who knows. Because it's pretty freaking amazing that Foles and Keenum have failed to reach the low bar set by Hill, Clemens, and Davis. But those 3 guys all had amazing weapons and elite OLs unlike Foles and Keenum.

I'm done here. I'm sure most posters are tired of reading this argument. I know I am and I'm right in the damn middle of it.

I'm with you 100% on this one. I get quite annoyed when we get into this QB debate and everyone gets mad when you suggest picking up someone like Fitz or Kap because they aren't the "long-term" solution. Maybe not. But they are a hell of a lot better than Foles and they are probably the best we can get for next season. Even if Goff or Lynch drops to us in the Draft they will not be better than a guy like Kaepernick the first year.

Some people also don't see how absolutely HORRID Foles has been and that's sad. If you study the film you can see where guys get open and he doesn't see them, sees them too late, or doesn't deliver the ball on time with accuracy. If you watch the game against the Seahawks and then watch the Bengals game you can see how much Foles has regressed as a passer. This includes everything from mechanics to going through basic progressions. Kaepernick is a better passer plus he can run. It would be nice for the defense to have to worry about the QB taking off for the 1st down every once in a while.

 

[LumberTubs]

Anyone who has advocated Kaepernick in this thread should impose a two day ban on themselves. That includes you @CGI_Ram!

Joking aside, I want the Rams to be a proper team with a proper QB. I'd rather stick with Keenum and improve the supporting cast than even consider that turd playing in blue and gold.

 

[Ram Pat]

As far as Kap goes, the sack numbers he was taking seemed very high the last two years and he just didn't see the field. He also was extremely inaccurate, looked sooo bad for a guy with that athletic ability. Also his int # grew with the size of his head(ego) from the advertizing, and his td #'s went down with his time studying his playbook (ipad). you can tell I don't like Krap. ( Ever see a Qb show tattoos?) the search continues...(Bortles was there...sigh..)

 

[RaminExile]

The same QBs are more flawed as passers without the game-breaking speed and running ability.

At least the Rams would be trying with Kaepernick rather than throwing in the towel by sticking with the worst QBs in the NFL.

But I agree with @-X- Fisher would need to bring in an offensive mind willing to incorporate the read option or he'd need to be willing to let Boras do it. Or in the best case scenario, we bring in Adam Gase and Mike McCoy...

There js Jeff Garcia on the staff already who could work with him. Id love to see Gase as OC though yeah.

 

[Selassie I]

There's no such thing as an old Running QB.

Sackorpick is DONE.

 

[Dxmissile]

If Kaepernick doesn't run he is useless. He is not an improvement over Foles, in passing. Foles can at least read the entire field.

Tell that to Britt who was running wide open on a play designed to go to him.

 

[OldSchool]

Interesting, I Houston Roberson tackled well last week. There was only one. He missed but he made some very nice tackles.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Some people here are talking themselves into Kaepernick. He has been beaten out by Gabbert. His only good years were with Harbaugh and his OC is now in Buffalo making Tyrod Taylor look good.

Fisher doesn't exactly have an innovative OC on hand that is also known as a QB guru. We bring CK here and he is worse than he was with the 49ers. Unless of course your plan is to run him often. Even then I doubt there is much fear of our passing games and the defenses will just load the box and stop the run. The Rams need a QB that can make the passing game respectable. They need a guy that can play to the Foles ability in the first few games. That is not much to ask but it is not Kaepernick. Maybe Glennon or Fitzpatrick but not Kaepernick. Who here would have been saying we need Gabbert? Nobody. And he beat out Kaepernick.

People have JAWS syndrome all of a sudden.

 

[ramsince62]

Crazy isn't it. With Foles being so bad though I don't think he could be any worse. He can't pass? Neither can Foles. He can't read a d? You know what I'm going to say.

What he can do is run it and he can launch it deep on occasion.

Interesting scenario but I would really hope it would be a worst case thing if we couldn't actually find a real QB from somewhere.

Sadly, I've seen him (Kaeper-dink) throw better passes than Foles. uke:

 

[ramsince62]

Can he? Serious question.

You guys know i hate the Kap but he did some good things under Harbaugh with an elite RB and defense. I don't think he can win a super bowl but hey...we're 5-8.

"Exactly Right"

 

[thirteen28]

Some people here are talking themselves into Kaepernick. He has been beaten out by Gabbert. His only good years were with Harbaugh and his OC is now in Buffalo making Tyrod Taylor look good.

Fisher doesn't exactly have an innovative OC on hand that is also known as a QB guru. We bring CK here and he is worse than he was with the 49ers. Unless of course your plan is to run him often. Even then I doubt there is much fear of our passing games and the defenses will just load the box and stop the run. The Rams need a QB that can make the passing game respectable. They need a guy that can play to the Foles ability in the first few games. That is not much to ask but it is not Kaepernick. Maybe Glennon or Fitzpatrick but not Kaepernick. Who here would have been saying we need Gabbert? Nobody. And he beat out Kaepernick.

People have JAWS syndrome all of a sudden.

I don't see it as talking themselves into Kapernick as the long-term solution, but rather as a stopgap who can hold down the fort until the next guy, be it Mannion or a draft pick, is ready to go.

And the point made above by a couple about the nightmare of defending Gurley, Tavon and Kapernick in the running game is a good one.

I understand some of the resistance to Kap, he's not a good passing QB and likely never will be. Plus, he currently plays for the Evil Empire, so he has that taint on him. But passing-wise, he's better than Foles has been this year, and probably better than Keenum too. At least he has something our offense could use until we find a better, more long-term solution.

 

[ramsince62]

Yes. You don't even have to run a zone read system. You can create a system that utilizes the zone read and a number of other things that use your QB's mobility as a weapon.

For example, imagine on those plays where Austin goes in motion for the reverse and Gurley takes off up the middle, you also have Kaepernick run a boot-leg to the side of the field that Austin vacated. Now, the defense has to assign a man to watch Austin and a man to watch Kaepernick while also having to guard against Gurley's runs up the middle.

We can install an offense that makes use of Kaepernick's legs. It just takes creativity. Which is why I'd love to see Mike McCoy here as OC next year. He built an offense around Tebow's mobility despite Tebow having far more limited passing ability.

And yes, I agree. He can do enough passing to keep them honest. Not just long bombs but crossing routes, quick slants, out routes, etc. You just have to simplify the offense and minimize his reads.

Ultimately it's a "stop gap" measure. I think we all agree that any solution (next year) won't solve the problem longer term. Unless of course lightening strikes and we luck out in the draft. I'm told the first 5 QB's coming out are pocket passers. Maybe there's still hope i.e., Mannion, ....yeah that's it, all we need is more hope.......

 

[jrry32]

Some people here are talking themselves into Kaepernick. He has been beaten out by Gabbert. His only good years were with Harbaugh and his OC is now in Buffalo making Tyrod Taylor look good.

Fisher doesn't exactly have an innovative OC on hand that is also known as a QB guru. We bring CK here and he is worse than he was with the 49ers. Unless of course your plan is to run him often. Even then I doubt there is much fear of our passing games and the defenses will just load the box and stop the run. The Rams need a QB that can make the passing game respectable. They need a guy that can play to the Foles ability in the first few games. That is not much to ask but it is not Kaepernick. Maybe Glennon or Fitzpatrick but not Kaepernick. Who here would have been saying we need Gabbert? Nobody. And he beat out Kaepernick.

People have JAWS syndrome all of a sudden.

Nobody has Jaws syndrome. Gabbert "beat out" Kaepernick because the 49ers are dysfunctional as hell. They didn't develop an offense to Kaepernick's strengths and then smeared him in the media.

No, he's not a good player. But he's a serviceable QB. Harbaugh and Greg Roman proved that.

And funny you bring up Tyrod Taylor, look what he's doing in an offense tailored to his skill-set. Kaepernick has the same sort of ability if we tailor an offense to his skill-set.

If Fisher can't figure out how to bring in an OC that can work with Kaepernick or get Boras to develop an offense, he should be fired. It's not that difficult.

Yes, the plan would be to run him often. If the defense loads up to stop the box, you throw it.(because Kaepernick is a better passer than the two guys that have played this year) Not to mention the fact that the defense loading up the box isn't the soundest idea when you can get the ball to Austin or Kaepernick outside of the tackle box. You load up the box and Austin gets it on the end-around or Kaepernick on the boot-leg, you better hope you have enough guys outside the box to contain the guy who has the ball.

It's not a permanent answer. But for a year or two? Why not?

I'm not talking myself into Kaepernick. I've known his strengths and weaknesses from the beginning. I just recognize when a guy has strengths that can be tapped into that aren't being utilized properly. We are one of the few teams that can utilize his strengths properly.

 

[DaveFan'51]

How do they feel about dressing like canaries?

I've only asked about 3 or 4 players so far. They all seem to like the Color Rush uniforms.

I personally love the Jersey, and Hate the Canary Look!! Even Donald can't make it look good!!

 

[Prime Time]

Fisher doesn't exactly have an innovative OC on hand that is also known as a QB guru.

Why is Jeff Garcia not filling this gap? Yeah, I know it's not his job but why not?

 

[-X-]

If Fisher can't figure out how to bring in an OC that can work with Kaepernick or get Boras to develop an offense, he should be fired. It's not that difficult.

There are a lot of things to consider though. Yes it's relatively easy to develop an offense to utilize his strengths, but it's not a temporary solution like you suggested. If you go to the lengths and labors to develop an offense tailored to one player, then you need that one player to be able to run it. What happens if he gets injured or just plain sucks? Now you need a backup QB of equal or similar skill set to keep the offense on track. You can't go from zone-read with Kaepernick to zone-read with, say, Sean Mannion. And if you remove the zone read elements from it to accommodate a different QB (like Mannion) who isn't capable of running zone-read as effectively, how much does that put on the offensive line and receivers? They essentially have to know two offenses. Or, alternatively, you have a very scaled back offense after you strip all the zone-read out of it.

See what I'm saying? It's not a good plan if you change the offense for the QB, RB, line and receivers, but don't plan on keeping that QB for very long or even know that he'll be productive in it. You'd have to have a couple of QBs who can run it if you're going to go in that direction. It's kind of a big deal to move in that direction, or all NFL coordinators would have a backup plan like that. Our offense isn't working? Well shit -- let's just do some zone-read and get Kaepernick or someone who's done that before and see if that works. If it doesn't, we can go back to what we were doing before. I mean, does that ever happen?