Rams among teams watching Nevada QB Fajardo

[jrry32]

Your idea of saying does he have an arm and mine are just different. I generalized. You were more specific.

I know that every QB isn't going to have a cannon and I realize that there are different degrees of accuracy. Foles is not as accurate as Bradford for instance but he can still play in the NFL. But if you have a guy that is coming from a system that is going to make his transition to the NFL 'questionable. And he doesn't have a good arm(accuracy/strength) then you have two strikes starting out.

I'm just going off of it's normal meaning. If someone is talking about accuracy, they typically use the words "accurate", "accuracy", or "ball placement". If they're talking about arm strength, they often just use "arm". When someone says, "QB X has a noodle arm"...they don't mean that he's inaccurate.(sorry about your noodle arm @-X- )

This is pure semantics but I took Athos's statement to mean that he doesn't want a QB who doesn't have a strong arm.

There in lies the problem. So from outside we have to look at what? Arm. Some guys you can see that they can do it all, like Winston but he played in the Pro system and was able to display that he could handle it. Mariota is still a question for fans but his makeup from what we have been told makes teams think he can do it. I really don't know, I just agree with the consensus because I really cant say. Now Fajardo may be the next Tony Romo. But that is not so likely. I hope the Rams have figured out the magic formula for saying, 'Yes, this guy should be able to make the switch' and be right, then draft him. But if he isn't accurate and can't hit a wide open Britt streaming down the field, then why draft him?

From the outside, we can see three of the four. If not all four. Depends on the system they run and the defenses they play.

The Rams have to say, are we picking this guy because we think we can develop him into our next starter, OR is his arm is so bad that he will only be a career backup, if that. If he is the next backup QB then don't draft him unless it is a late pick and they feel there aren't many other options worth picking at any other position.

Are you using "arm" as accuracy + arm strength or just arm strength? Again, it's impossible to tell because it's almost always used to refer to arm strength.

I would never draft an inaccurate QB. But I would draft a QB with an average or even a weakish arm if they had certain other attributes that I felt compensated. There's a line with how weak an arm can be but most prospects meet the bear minimum.

 

[Boston Ram]

He's a system QB who's greatest asset (in college) was his feet. If he doesnt have an NFL caliber arm, that skill set gets him no more than a camp invite.

The only part of this I disagree with is his best asset is not his feet. I know you watched him some last year too and he was forced to run. But if you go back to his JR year his best asset is his ability to extend plays and make throws downfield. He is a QB who wants to throw the ball IMO not a guy who wants to run first. As for his arm, its NFL caliber.

 

[Athos]

She's one of my favorite redheads BTW.

 

[fearsomefour]

I am actually really happy to hear the Rams are kicking the tires on this guy. Anyone who was on RRF about 7 months ago know I have been on this guy for a while. I have seen every game this kid has played in for the last 2 years. I really like this kid but there is some work to do with him. If you watch last years tape is pretty underwhelming, his oline got beat up and he lost his 2 starting OG's. As the season wore on he developed some bad habits because he was under so much pressure. He started becoming a run first QB which is not his game.

What I like about him: Fierce competitor, did everything to try to win games, gave up his body and tried to run his way to a championship. Ran the same offense Kaepernick ran with similar results. He can make all the throws required but throws with the Manning like arc in certain spaces. His real strength is his ability to extend plays. He climbs the pocket well and does a great job avoiding pressure and getting his eyes back downfield to look for his receivers. His 2013 games you will notice he does not tuck in run, he resets and looks downfield which resulted in big plays. He loves throwing deep but does not make bad decisions doing it, very rarely throws into double coverage. When needed, he can take off and pick up a first down. When he does tuck and run it usually results in a big play because he does a good job of taking what the defense gives him. Brains, he is a cerebral QB who will be able to pick up a new playbook and know it.

What I don't like: Size, not ideal but buys time out of the pocket so he can see downfield. Needs to make quicker decisions, now in his system he was not required to do that. I do think he has the mental part of his game to do it though, of course he does have a slight hitch in his throw which could effect that. Does not have great arm strength but it is good enough IMO. System QB that will need time to develop into a more pro style offense.

When the college season started I had him projected as a 4th rounder, but last year was a tough year but team injuries and an overall down year for Nevada had a lot to do with it. Again, his tape last year will show you a run first QB but that is not his game. IMO he lost confidence in the oline, got killed and started running earlier than he normally had to.
Of all the QB's not named Winston or Mariota, I like this guy the best. And before you all call me crazy I said last year Jimmy Garoppolo was the best QB after Bridgewater and Bortles. Of course Derek Carr may have proved me wrong lol.

The Manning arc is a show of lack of arm strength. The arm strength thing is not about throwing 55 yards but throwing 25 yards down field into a tight window.
Cody probably has enough arm strength. A guy without ideal size or a huge cannon that makes it work well is Brees.
It's more about the whole picture.
If drafted he will need time. The pistol is designed to take reads away from QBs. To get up to speed with reading a D, being under center, perfecting a traditional drop ect at the pro level. I think that is a two to three year investment. Tons of physical athletic ability but he will probably be a project. That's all fine with me. If the Rams have the patience to invest 3 years into a QB he is as good a prospect as many.

 

[-X-]

(sorry about your noodle arm @-X- )

No problem. Happens with age.

There's a line with how weak an arm can be but most prospects meet the bear minimum.

Sorry about your small bear.

 

[Athos]

Whereas guys like Bulger, Warner, Romo, Brady, etc. possessed averageish arm strength coming out. The same type of arm strength that people claimed was a "wet noodle" with Garrett Grayson.

That's where we have to slightly disagree. I don't need a big arm like Cutler or want an inaccurate howitzer like KraperDouche.

But Bulger, Warner, Romo, and I'd say even Brady have slightly just above average arm strength. They don't need to be throwing lasers downfield, but those guys above have great spirals with the ability to thread the needle. If you can't thread a needle through tight coverage in the NFL period, I don't want you.

Brees doesn't have great arm strength, but he has a very tight spiral and can thread it with some zip.

When I say weak armed, I mean Davis who tosses floaters and Hill, who throws a softball out there.

 

[V3]

Again, you and jrry think one thing I think the other. Arm= accuracy and strength. If a guy has a strong arm but no accuracy then he isn't a QB. He is a shot putter.

If that's how you view it, I get it. But I haven't seen anyone heretofore describe "arm" as being both strength and accuracy.

I'll try and remember that from here on out for you. I'm not sure if Athos feels the same, though.

 

[shaunpinney]

Holy crap he has two - sign him in the first

 

[Athos]

Accuracy and a football mind are so overrated. It's all about how far and hard QB's throw.

It would be a nice attempt at sarcasm if you didn't totally miss my point. I don't care about cannons. I care about arm strength relative to whether or not your ball flutters out of your hand or takes a country minute to get to its target giving the D more opportunity to disrupt the pass by INT, tip, or being batted down.

Many of Davis' passes I remember taking FOREVER to get to its location. Namely that one play where Tavon got bent in half. Anticipation on throws is probably my biggest thing, but you also need some measure of arm to get the ball where it needs to go. You guys keep confusing my wanting a strong arm with wanting a KraperDouche arm.

Not at all.

And Manning's lobbed passes haven't worked the greatest in his old age against stingier defenses. And Manning gets away with it to obscene success because he has the best QB mind in the game. Do people think it's any easier finding a QB with THAT kind of mind to overcome any physical deficiencies?

The Top 15 QBs all have good to above average to elite arms in the NFL. And those are usually the winning teams. The one with the "weakest" in that group may be Brees, but he has one of the quickest releases in the game in addition to the necessary cerebral smarts.

I'd personally be okay with at least a Dalton level of arm strength which is about average across the board.

But unless you're Drew Brees clone, I don't want a guy who is both short and possesses an under average arm. That's a recipe for disaster in this league.

This is pure semantics but I took Athos's statement to mean that he doesn't want a QB who doesn't have a strong arm.

And you'd be wrong. I don't want a QB with a weak ass arm or below average arm. And I surely don't want one who combines that with small stature. Unless he has Wilson's athleticism and Manning's brain on his shoulders. Again, good luck finding that.

 

[dieterbrock]

The only part of this I disagree with is his best asset is not his feet. I know you watched him some last year too and he was forced to run. But if you go back to his JR year his best asset is his ability to extend plays and make throws downfield. He is a QB who wants to throw the ball IMO not a guy who wants to run first. As for his arm, its NFL caliber.

Well, yeah his best asset is being able to extend plays, with his feet... Lol
I watched him (based on your recommendations btw) and wasn't really impressed. But then again, I didn't think Kaepernick was anything to write home about either in that system
And I do trust your eye on QB's, as you were the 1st guy to point out Jimmy Garopollo

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

If that's how you view it, I get it. But I haven't seen anyone heretofore describe "arm" as being both strength and accuracy.

I'll try and remember that from here on out for you. I'm not sure if Athos feels the same, though.

Funny because I thought it was obvious what Athos was talking about. Don't over think things.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I'm just going off of it's normal meaning

Normal for who? Not me, apparently not Athos. I don't recall him saying does he have a Strong Arm. He said does he have an arm. I took that as meaning a good arm. Can he make the throws. Can he get the ball where it needs to be.

It really isn't all that complex.

 

[-X-]

Interesting how this thread has evolved to cover the meaning of "an arm."
I get what @Athos is saying. An arm, to me, means ... can he get it downfield AND put some mustard on it when he has to.

This .... is an arm.

 

[Boston Ram]

Well, yeah his best asset is being able to extend plays, with his feet... Lol
I watched him (based on your recommendations btw) and wasn't really impressed. But then again, I didn't think Kaepernick was anything to write home about either in that system
And I do trust your eye on QB's, as you were the 1st guy to point out Jimmy Garopollo

Fair point lol.

 

[shaunpinney]

Here's my 2 pence worth anyway.

If you have a mediocre - to successful QB in college then I think you CAN make it in the NFL as a good QB.

But...

It's all to do with (apart from the QB himself) the supporting cast, the scheme and how that player is coached and managed as to the level of success.

 

[fearsomefour]

That's where we have to slightly disagree. I don't need a big arm like Cutler or want an inaccurate howitzer like KraperDouche.

But Bulger, Warner, Romo, and I'd say even Brady have slightly just above average arm strength. They don't need to be throwing lasers downfield, but those guys above have great spirals with the ability to thread the needle. If you can't thread a needle through tight coverage in the NFL period, I don't want you.

Brees doesn't have great arm strength, but he has a very tight spiral and can thread it with some zip.

When I say weak armed, I mean Davis who tosses floaters and Hill, who throws a softball out there.

I agree and disagree with this (am I ready for politics yet?).
Warner and Brady did not have powerful arms really....what they have is a great understanding and timing and anticipation.
They know where they are going with the ball before the snap usually. They have quick releases and get rid of the ball on time. Because of lack of mobility (they move well in the pocket however) they HAD to develop quick releases. Romo probably has the best arm of those four guys. Bulger had many of the same qualities of Warner and Brady but his arm was not as strong and he was not as good throwing deep....if memory serves he was just throwing up Hill-ian rainbows on deep balls. But, man, he may have been one of the best ever at that medium crossing route.
Anyway, too much is made of pure arm strength. For every Farve there is 4 or 5 Jeff Georges' and Kyle Bollers'.
The mental side of the game, reading defenses, anticipation, pocket presence, things that make a good pocket passer take time to develop. With so many guys coming out of college now having not even been under center in years....if ever....the prospect of a great runner thrills me less than ever. If a non traditional QB is drafted then the time should be invested to attempt to develop him correctly. To take almost any guy running a spread, no huddle, pistol or whatever variation offense and expect him to come in and play soon is unrealistic and unfair to the player I think. I don't have a problem drafting one of these guys if they are given the time to develop.....several years.

 

[fearsomefour]

Interesting how this thread has evolved to cover the meaning of "an arm."
I get what @Athos is saying. An arm, to me, means ... can he get it downfield AND put some mustard on it when he has to.

This .... is an arm.

I agree X.
Throwing into tight windows, timing, even the subtle movement in the pocket. On the stat sheet this goes down as a 25 yard completion. But this is a professional pocket QB making a pro play.
There is a reason Arizona had Matt Leinart throwing endless bubble screens and rollouts....why you never saw a deep out. He didn't have the arm to execute in tight windows....even if he saw what was happening.
While I understand it, this video displays part of the reason I don't care for the Foles trade all that much.
As an aside....nice whif by the LT (Saffold?).

 

[Athos]

I get what @Athos is saying. An arm, to me, means ... can he get it downfield AND put some mustard on it when he has to.

Yea, that's one example. The other being the more difficult out patterns. Going sideline to sideline. A tough stick route. Or an intermediate to deep slant back towards the middle of the field with a DB on your ass. Can you hit that or not? Because if you don't put a good spin on it, the ball can wind up behind the WR.

 

[jap]

He's a system QB who's greatest asset (in college) was his feet. If he doesnt have an NFL caliber arm, that skill set gets him no more than a camp invite.

My post addressed the original comment made by Athos and agreed by yourself and one other:

"# one thing.

Does he have an arm or not? If he does, ok. If not, not interested. As usual."

I was merely pointing out that the big arm doesn't necessarily mean very much, citing an unnamed Rams QB who could muscle the ball anywhere on the field but would badly miss wide open WR's. I doubt any of you three was into cannon arms only, but accuracy counts for a lot in the NFL---ideally, you want the cannon with the Robin Hood accuracy.

 

[ZigZagRam]

I like Fajardo. He's a guy I would not be at all surprised to see starting 8-10 years in the NFL with a good QB coach to coach him up his first year or two. But I just don't know how likely it is that he gets there.

How's that for non-committal?

It just hasn't been a good offseason to need a QB. I don't feel particularly confident in any of the realistic options in the draft.

Hope Foles works out!