Qb competition

[bluecoconuts]

Lol Goff Velocity was 87 and Mannions was 86 lol definitely not superior. I'm not saying that most of the resources aren't going to go to Goff hell I hope they do but Goff isn't going to play in all the preseason games and that's where the evaluations are gonna start. Then they might take a more complete look at Mannion in practice because finally he is going to get practice reps. Mannion is going to surprise

87 to 86? I mean MPH, Goff was clocked at 60MPH, I think Mannion was clocked at 57, it doesn't seem like much, but in a game of inches that's really important. All NFL QB's are going to be in the mid-upper 50's. A quick release paired with good velocity can be the difference between a TD and an interception. For example the pick that Keenum threw against Detroit, that's a ball that Goff can complete because he has a superior arm talent. Mannion has a pretty strong arm, I'm sure he can get closer to the 59 to 60 MPH range on his throws, but it's the release that really comes into play. For example, Paxton Lynch can throw the ball 63 MPH but he has to abandon his mechanics to do that (so accuracy, release all that goes down).. Goff can reach 60 MPH in a game, combined with good footwork and a quick release (.37 seconds, which is faster than Tom Brady, and .03 seconds faster than the leave average of .4 seconds).. Mannion has a big windup in his throw which puts him below the league average. The elongated throwing motion is also what takes away a lot of his power (which is why people will say he doesn't have as strong of an arm as he should) because he's not using his lower body. That also makes his passes go a little high and takes away accuracy.

Mannion has a lot of potential to grow, but so does Goff. Goff had a breakout game when he was only 18, to put that into context when evaluating QB's NFL teams look for them to have a breakout game when they're about 20 years old. For Goff to do it at 18 is an elite trait that puts him in the 96th percentile... Mannion was a little over 20 that put him in the 60th percentile. While Mannion can grow and develop, it's likely that you're going to see more growth and development from Goff, even though he's already ahead in terms of his mechanics.

That's a lot of why Goff was such a highly regarded prospect, because with the right coach (like McVay seems to be) there's a goldmine ready to be tapped into.

 

[Dxmissile]

Trying to compare Mannion in Year 2 vs. Goff in Year 1 is a disingenuous comparison.



Then you need to stop watching the highlights. Goff has far better feet and footwork in the pocket than Mannion. It's not remotely close. Mannion was a heavy-legged spot thrower in college who looked quite poor when forced to move within the pocket. Goff's ability to move within the pocket was considered his strongest attribute as a prospect.

Mannion doesn't come remotely close to Goff in terms of ability to manipulate the pocket. There's no difference of opinion to be had here. It's like saying that Nelson Spruce is faster than Tavon Austin

[/QUOTE

That's all either one of them has is Highlights even McVay said they will go back and see what he did in college. Goff footwork was very poor in the pros and Mannion looked a lot better in his limited time. There should be no debate with that.

 

[Dxmissile]

87 to 86? I mean MPH, Goff was clocked at 60MPH, I think Mannion was clocked at 57, it doesn't seem like much, but in a game of inches that's really important. All NFL QB's are going to be in the mid-upper 50's. A quick release paired with good velocity can be the difference between a TD and an interception. For example the pick that Keenum threw against Detroit, that's a ball that Goff can complete because he has a superior arm talent. Mannion has a pretty strong arm, I'm sure he can get closer to the 59 to 60 MPH range on his throws, but it's the release that really comes into play. For example, Paxton Lynch can throw the ball 63 MPH but he has to abandon his mechanics to do that (so accuracy, release all that goes down).. Goff can reach 60 MPH in a game, combined with good footwork and a quick release (.37 seconds, which is faster than Tom Brady, and .03 seconds faster than the leave average of .4 seconds).. Mannion has a big windup in his throw which puts him below the league average. The elongated throwing motion is also what takes away a lot of his power (which is why people will say he doesn't have as strong of an arm as he should) because he's not using his lower body. That also makes his passes go a little high and takes away accuracy.

Mannion has a lot of potential to grow, but so does Goff. Goff had a breakout game when he was only 18, to put that into context when evaluating QB's NFL teams look for them to have a breakout game when they're about 20 years old. For Goff to do it at 18 is an elite trait that puts him in the 96th percentile... Mannion was a little over 20 that put him in the 60th percentile. While Mannion can grow and develop, it's likely that you're going to see more growth and development from Goff, even though he's already ahead in terms of his mechanics.

That's a lot of why Goff was such a highly regarded prospect, because with the right coach (like McVay seems to be) there's a goldmine ready to be tapped into.

I can definitely respect that it's a whole lot better then just stating that Mannion sucks.

Here is my thing. Mannion is able to do that with Flawed mechanics so to speak so who's to say that with those mechanics fixed he wouldn't be able to throw harder and further. We all know that a QB has to have a good base to get off those throws. Where I think Goff will always be better at then Mannion is his escapability and improvising skills. Didn't really get to see too much of it his first year but I know it's there. But as a pure QB I just don't think they are as far away as a lot of people think that's why I can see a real QB battle IF the Rams allow it to happen

 

[jrry32]

That's all either one of them has is Highlights even McVay said they will go back and see what he did in college. Goff footwork was very poor in the pros and Mannion looked a lot better in his limited time. There should be no debate with that.

There's a lot more than highlights on both. Goff's footwork is on another level when compared to Mannion. Mannion is heavy-legged.

 

[Dxmissile]

There's a lot more than highlights on both. Goff's footwork is on another level when compared to Mannion. Mannion is heavy-legged.

Once again I thought it was more to being a QB then just footwork.. ok I get it Mannion is Frazier Goff is Ali.

 

[bluecoconuts]

I can definitely respect that it's a whole lot better then just stating that Mannion sucks.

Here is my thing. Mannion is able to do that with Flawed mechanics so to speak so who's to say that with those mechanics fixed he wouldn't be able to throw harder and further. We all know that a QB has to have a good base to get off those throws. Where I think Goff will always be better at then Mannion is his escapability and improvising skills. Didn't really get to see too much of it his first year but I know it's there. But as a pure QB I just don't think they are as far away as a lot of people think that's why I can see a real QB battle IF the Rams allow it to happen

I don't think that Mannion sucks, far from it.. I think that his ceiling is very likely to be a quality if not above average backup, I don't think he has the potential to grow into an elite QB like Goff does. Again, this doesn't mean that Mannion is bad, and with the right situation he could a quality starter, but I'm not sure that the Rams are that situation . I think that his mechanics will hurt him in any competition when they're in training camp.

I don't think any of the QB's in the NFL are really that far away from each other physically, it's those little details that matter. Having the footwork, the pocket presence, the throwing motion, those little differences combined with the ability to understand the game, read defenses, and the drive to always improve is what separates the top tier QB's from the rest. What makes the greats so great having those traits plus the brain to put it all together.

Goff has all the physical traits, we just need to figure out if he has the brain to put it all together, he definitely has the drive to improve. So far I've seen more signs that he does than he doesn't. Mannion can get those physical traits if he fixes his mechanics, which is possible, in terms of the brain and the motivation, who knows, it's more of an unknown with him than it is with Goff.

I'm not saying that Mannion can't be a quality starter or a good QB, I'm saying that right now he's not as good as Goff, and I'm not expecting there to be much of a competition come camp time, I think that Goff is our starter, and that's how McVay wants it.

 

[Dxmissile]

I don't think that Mannion sucks, far from it.. I think that his ceiling is very likely to be a quality if not above average backup, I don't think he has the potential to grow into an elite QB like Goff does. Again, this doesn't mean that Mannion is bad, and with the right situation he could a quality starter, but I'm not sure that the Rams are that situation . I think that his mechanics will hurt him in any competition when they're in training camp.

I don't think any of the QB's in the NFL are really that far away from each other physically, it's those little details that matter. Having the footwork, the pocket presence, the throwing motion, those little differences combined with the ability to understand the game, read defenses, and the drive to always improve is what separates the top tier QB's from the rest. What makes the greats so great having those traits plus the brain to put it all together.

Goff has all the physical traits, we just need to figure out if he has the brain to put it all together, he definitely has the drive to improve. So far I've seen more signs that he does than he doesn't. Mannion can get those physical traits if he fixes his mechanics, which is possible, in terms of the brain and the motivation, who knows, it's more of an unknown with him than it is with Goff.

I'm not saying that Mannion can't be a quality starter or a good QB, I'm saying that right now he's not as good as Goff, and I'm not expecting there to be much of a competition come camp time, I think that Goff is our starter, and that's how McVay wants it.

Thanks for your post, I feel like Mannion mental game is above Goffs for the simple fact that he ran a pro style offense for 4 yrs and it was a west coast offense at that. Everything else is a wait and see approach

 

[Rambitious1]

This slow release and footwork stuff is played out the guy can throw that ball he it sure worked out for Brandon Cooks and it turned Spruce into a wr that eveyonebwanna see play. People hear something being said and just regurgitate it like it's gospel. People do get better and he has on both fronts in limited practice and playing time so that tells me he puts a lot of work in by himself to get better

 

[Corbin]

Wow this thread picked up a following fast! Lol


As far as Goff vs Mannion?

I think just for what we have invested in Goff he'll start even if Mannion is better.


As far if Goff is our future and people act like they seen tape where he's clear cut better than Goff? Nope.

Goff did not look great this year but did have some nice flashes. I know Mannion was more ready than Goff was but that all doesn't matter anyway.

Goff will be the starter unless of injury.


However I do like Mannions potential especially if given a chance.

 

[OldSchool]

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/BITSJvhjs38/?taken-by=rgcartoons

 

[UKram]

I never said it didn't if you wasn't trying to be so combative you would see the post where I acknowledge that Goff might just need to be more comfortable to let his talents shine, that's why I have never stated that Goff wasn't any good which it seems like the only thing people say about Mannion

no that's the thing im not being combative ... im just pointing the flaws in your argument ,,you see every point you make there's a direct counter point

mannion made spruce look good - spruce made Mannion good etc

its not a fair comparison to make between a 22 year old rookie coming and a 2nd year player (who had been in the same offense and had a year of NFL coaching strengh and conditioning)

look i get you like sean its fine youre allowed but it can skew your objectivity ,,Goff is the best Qb on the roster in terms of talent and potential and i dont think its even close and come opening day of the new season barring injury he will be the starter

 

[Afro Ram]

Put me in the corner that thinks that Jeff Fisher made a big mistake drafting Jared Goff with the first overall draft pick. I don't think he'll be a bust and i do think he'll develop into a good starting quarterback at some point. But it wont suprise me at all if Sean Mannon ends up starting by game five

 

[Rams43]

Prescott didn't beat out Romo. Romo had the starting job. He got injured.

Why didn't the Cowboys give Romo the job back? Because Prescott is 23 years old, healthy, and on a cheap contract. Romo is 36 years old, constantly injured, and on an expensive contract. It made no sense to pull a rookie QB having a great season for a QB who has one or two years left before retirement.

Romo was and is still the better QB. But Dallas had an eye towards their future. Dak is their future; Romo is not.

Isn't that just a lengthy way of saying that Prescott beat out Romo, even after Romo was healthy, jrry32? Lol.

 

[…..]

Whats is more suprising to you?

1. That this thread has actual and legitimate ongoing discussion over who the better QB might be.

2. Goff doesnt start 16 games in 2017 (privided he is not injured)


My vote..... #1

 

[Dodgersrf]

Lol Goff Velocity was 87 and Mannions was 86 lol definitely not superior. I'm not saying that most of the resources aren't going to go to Goff hell I hope they do but Goff isn't going to play in all the preseason games and that's where the evaluations are gonna start. Then they might take a more complete look at Mannion in practice because finally he is going to get practice reps. Mannion is going to surprise

87 what? Certainly not mph.
The average fastball in Baseball is 88 mph and their throwing a small baseball downhill.

 

[dieterbrock]

Isn't that just a lengthy way of saying that Prescott beat out Romo, even after Romo was healthy, jrry32? Lol.

Not at all.
Prescott didn't beat out Romo in any sense, in fact the team had to go 10-2 with Dak before they gave him the job.

 

[DCH]

The EWBD has apparently had a child, and that child is now of age.

 

[Dxmissile]

87 what? Certainly not mph.
The average fastball in Baseball is 88 mph and their throwing a small baseball downhill.

I can't remember if it was me and @jrry32 that had that discussion about Velocity but that's where those numbers come from

 

[Dodgersrf]

I can't remember if it was me and @jrry32 that had that discussion about Velocity but that's where those numbers come from

It could be KMH.

 

[A55VA6]

There is no QB competition. And I'm not really sure why you'd hope Mannion wins.

Pretty much this.