(Poll) Goff or Wentz Part Deux. Who do YOU want?

[Dodgersrf]

I was one screaming to give Mannion a shot. Why they didn't, I don't know. I didn't include Mannion because I don't think the Rams hold 4 QBs. If they can move Foles, maybe they keep him.

I think Mannion stays.
He has the strongest arm on the team. He's smart. That's pretty much all we know about him.

Is he a long term back up? Does he have the intangibles to be a successful starter?
All unknowns to me.

I would like to keep him.

 

[jjab360]

You call that history?? That's recent history my friend. I won't even bother to present you a list. Like I said (and you reiterate), NECESSITY put them out there...with the exception of Russell Wilson.

This aint hard...watch and see...Goff will sit. Mainly because Keenum is more than adequate to get it done.

So then why would anything outside of the past 15 years even be relevant in this discussion?

Rams didn't just trade away two drafts to have Goff ride the pine. Fisher himself even said the goal was to have Goff starting week 1.

At this point, it would either take an injury or some other huge setback or miscalculation for that not to happen. You're way off base here imo.

 

[nighttrain]

So then why would anything outside of the past 15 years even be relevant in this discussion?

Rams didn't just trade away two drafts to have Goff ride the pine. Fisher himself even said the goal was to have Goff starting week 1.

At this point, it would either take an injury or some other huge setback or miscalculation for that not to happen. You're way off base here imo.

haha, setback like an earthquake drops California into the Pacific
train ,

 

[jrry32]

You call that history?? That's recent history my friend. I won't even bother to present you a list. Like I said (and you reiterate), NECESSITY put them out there...with the exception of Russell Wilson.

This aint hard...watch and see...Goff will sit. Mainly because Keenum is more than adequate to get it done.

Yes, I call that relevant history. If that's what the NFL is doing today, that's more relevant than what was done 30-40 years ago. I can go back further if you want but in the end, the trend in today's NFL is to play rookie QBs. Especially when you don't have a legitimate starting option to sit them behind. And we don't.

We'll certainly all find out what happens. But I bet that Goff isn't sitting past the fourth game...if he doesn't start Week 1. My expectation is that he'll start Week 1. According to Fisher, he has the same expectation for Goff.

 

[Mackeyser]

That's about all it boils down to, really. Fisher isn't going to start him unless or until he knows what to do in every situation within the structure of the offense. But even then, he'll likely want to start him sooner rather than later. It's like coming down the stairs (for those of us who grew up with stairs) on Christmas morning and not being able to open your damn presents until your damn sister gets out of the damn bathroom that she's been in for damn near 30 damn minutes.

But I digress.

They'll probably start him day one as long as he has a proper grasp of the playbook.
Bradford started his first game and he ROYALLY sucked. But that's how you improve for game 2.

I have to disagree, brother.

Fisher and Snead entertained trade offers for Keenum (note, they didn't shut them down, they weighed them. They would NOT weigh offers for Gurley or Aaron Donald, for example).

They didn't do that because they see Keenum as a day 1 starter. Keenum's "on the block" and already seen as expendable. I've already gone into how maddening it is that they aren't developing Mannion even as a backup, but that's really neither here nor there.

Point being is that they're going to start Goff unless he just fails miserably in OTAs and TC and who think that's going to happen? They'll adjust the playbook and work it around him. Which means that he probably won't have the full playbook on Game 1. They'll use a truncated playbook because he's never had to deal with pro-level protection calling and he'll have to deal with it all as well as the mechanical adjustments. It'll be a lot. It'll be like that first jump in the Matrix...everybody falls...

But, he's going to start. They aren't going to do what they did with Gurley... more like the exact opposite.

I think he'll eventually be fine, but for anyone to think he's going to shred as a rookie... I think that's just unrealistic. We don't play in the NFC South or AFC South or the AFC North when every other team was having a down year like for Big Ben or like Flacco as a rookie with Ray Rice at RB and when the Ravens had a historically great defense. Goff's gonna have to face the 3rd toughest schedule in the NFL playing in an offense that doesn't suit the division.

I'm gonna give the kid a break and give him room for a crappy season. Give the kid time to learn, fail and grow into the QB he has the potential to be. Heck, Troy Aikman had a horrible rookie season and he did just fine as I recall...

 

[Mackeyser]

Check your history of QBs. The only reason you throw them in the fire is when you have no other option. The Rams have other options...they are Keenum and Foles.

Rather than argue the point realize no one made the move to take Foles from the Rams, so I think this is the depth chart at QB opening day:

1.Keenum

2. Foles

3. Goff

Hahahaha, that would be poetic!!!

 

[Mojo Ram]

Goff's gonna have to face the 3rd toughest schedule in the NFL playing in an offense that doesn't suit the division.

Explain.

 

[Mackeyser]

Explain.

Well, this is what I said in another thread (rather than retype it)

I'm not one of the optimists, but it's not because of the picks.

We'll see how it plays out. We're still running this broken quasi-WCO in a division with athletic, fast LBs who can run. WCOs are meant to stretch defenses horizontally. What defeats WCOs? athletic, fast LBs who can run and this division is chock full of 'em.

Heck, when we face a fantastically mature and well executed WCO in New Orleans Gulf Coast WCO with Drew Brees running it with better weapons than we have now... we eat it up. The defenses in our division are NOT intimidated by that kind of offense and they have ready answers for it. And a rookie Goff isn't going to be Drew Brees who's playing at a HoF level throwing for 5k yards a year... Certainly not in the next few years...

I sure hope it works out, but I'm scratching my head how...

 

[RamWoodie]

I think Mannion stays.
He has the strongest arm on the team. He's smart. That's pretty much all we know about him.

Is he a long term back up? Does he have the intangibles to be a successful starter?
All unknowns to me.

I would like to keep him.

I'm not in disagreement there. The most disappointing thing I've seen Fisher do is swap Bradford for Foles...but I understand it because we watched Fole digress after the Rams beat Seattle last year. That game he was impressive...but he went downhill from there.

I will never understand why Mannion didn't get a shot last year.

 

[jrry32]

Well, this is what I said in another thread (rather than retype it)

You called it a quasi-WCO, though. Which points out that it isn't a true WCO. Those fast, athletic LBs are going to have to deal with a massive OL and one of the best HBs in football. That will be the main identity of our offense. Goff's job will be to work off the play-action, move the chains, and make plays when we need them to. We're not going to be like the Saints where we go out and throw the ball 650 times a year.

Hell, the Seahawks have run a WCO during Wilson's entire tenure as their starting QB.

 

[Mackeyser]

You called it a quasi-WCO, though. Which points out that it isn't a true WCO. Those fast, athletic LBs are going to have to deal with a massive OL and one of the best HBs in football. That will be the main identity of our offense. Goff's job will be to work off the play-action, move the chains, and make plays when we need them to. We're not going to be like the Saints where we go out and throw the ball 650 times a year.

Hell, the Seahawks have run a WCO during Wilson's entire tenure as their starting QB.

And without Wilson making plays at critical moments outside the pocket, where would they be??? If Wilson had to rely solely on Lynch and being in the pocket??? Yeah... in this division, not good. They've had to almost rely on the power running game AND being able to create outside the pocket. Super Bowl, at the goal line, stays in the pocket and? INT.

You're pretty much making my point...

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

And without Wilson making plays at critical moments outside the pocket, where would they be??? If Wilson had to rely solely on Lynch and being in the pocket??? Yeah... in this division, not good. They've had to almost rely on the power running game AND being able to create outside the pocket. Super Bowl, at the goal line, stays in the pocket and? INT.

You're pretty much making my point...

Of course you know extending plays outside the pocket are not limited to QBs pulling the ball down and running downfield. A completely different skill set with Goff, it will be interesting to read your takes after watching Goff grow up in the system.

We all know you're deflated, you didn't get your boy.

I'm curious if your obvious disappointment with the organization would be different had they blundered (imo) into drafting Wentz?

 

[OldSchool]

And without Wilson making plays at critical moments outside the pocket, where would they be??? If Wilson had to rely solely on Lynch and being in the pocket??? Yeah... in this division, not good. They've had to almost rely on the power running game AND being able to create outside the pocket. Super Bowl, at the goal line, stays in the pocket and? INT.

You're pretty much making my point...

And who did the Seahawks and Whiners lose to in the Super Bowl? Oh QB's that can't create out of the pocket? Hmmmm

 

[RamWoodie]

Hahahaha, that would be poetic!!!

Not really. It doesn't mean Goff deserves to be 3rd...but you have to protect your investment...so you go with Foles second because you know your division has good to great defenses. You *try* to guarantee his success by giving him time to grow in the system.

I'm not saying Goff can't grasp the system quickly...he may do that. He'll be practicing against a superb defense. The thing is...based on everything we've been told of next year, all of the QBs are spread QBs that are coming out. That's the reasoning as to why the Rams and Eagles made the trades up they did.

You put Goff in when you're convinced he's ready.

 

[RamWoodie]

Yes, I call that relevant history. If that's what the NFL is doing today, that's more relevant than what was done 30-40 years ago. I can go back further if you want but in the end, the trend in today's NFL is to play rookie QBs. Especially when you don't have a legitimate starting option to sit them behind. And we don't.

We'll certainly all find out what happens. But I bet that Goff isn't sitting past the fourth game...if he doesn't start Week 1. My expectation is that he'll start Week 1. According to Fisher, he has the same expectation for Goff.

Not at all. Unless you've been closing your eyes...QBs are getting harder and harder to come by because of the spread offense college ball has gone to. This is why many are starting out of necessity...they don't have decent backup QBs.

The NFL isn't going to anything...they're adjusting out of the lack of NFL ready QBs because of the spread offense dominating college.

They only thing Goff is gonna see is preseason for the most part. If he sees action it'll be after week 12.

 

[Mackeyser]

Of course you know extending plays outside the pocket are not limited to QBs pulling the ball down and running downfield. A completely different skill set with Goff, it will be interesting to read your takes after watching Goff grow up in the system.

We all know you're deflated, you didn't get your boy.

I'm curious if your obvious disappointment with the organization would be different had they blundered (imo) into drafting Wentz?

Well, you can mischaracterize all you like.

It's not about Goff. I like Goff. It's not about Wentz. He's not a Ram. Haven't read a thing about him since days prior to the draft nor will I.

Why you want to maintain that even after I've clearly and repeatedly articulated my stance, I dunno.

I realize it's easier to believe that I'm anti-Goff than that there's systemic failures that will make it hard for anyone to succeed, but you do you.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

Not at all. Unless you've been closing your eyes...QBs are getting harder and harder to come by because of the spread offense college ball has gone to. This is why many are starting out of necessity...they don't have decent backup QBs.

The NFL isn't going to anything...they're adjusting out of the lack of NFL ready QBs because of the spread offense dominating college.

They only thing Goff is gonna see is preseason for the most part. If he sees action it'll be after week 12.

I would have agreed with you Woodie, in fact I've even invested ROD$$$'a month ago that Keenum is week one starter. It's classic Fisher

To tell you the truth I'm starting have my doubts, I'm about at 50/50 between CK and Goff

 

[Mackeyser]

Not at all. Unless you've been closing your eyes...QBs are getting harder and harder to come by because of the spread offense college ball has gone to. This is why many are starting out of necessity...they don't have decent backup QBs.

The NFL isn't going to anything...they're adjusting out of the lack of NFL ready QBs because of the spread offense dominating college.

They only thing Goff is gonna see is preseason for the most part. If he sees action it'll be after week 12.

Goff starts Game 1. Guaranteed. The Rams didn't entertain trades for Keenum because they saw him as a starter and Foles is so deep in the doghouse, I'm not sure he can reach the kibble... I'm not even sure they remember Mannion's still on the team...

Bank on it. I bet Keenum would throw the first pass and I'm gonna lose that money... Wish I could change that bet now, because there's just not the same kind of thinking going on now that happened when they drafted Gurley. He's gonna get thrown in, even with that early season gauntlet...

 

[Mackeyser]

And who did the Seahawks and Whiners lose to in the Super Bowl? Oh QB's that can't create out of the pocket? Hmmmm

So, now the Rams are a team with a historically great defense and a HoF QB?

It wasn't just that they got beat by a "type"... c'mon... don't do that... If that's the case, we had that in Case Keenum. You aren't saying that.

 

[Mackeyser]

Not really. It doesn't mean Goff deserves to be 3rd...but you have to protect your investment...so you go with Foles second because you know your division has good to great defenses. You *try* to guarantee his success by giving him time to grow in the system.

I'm not saying Goff can't grasp the system quickly...he may do that. He'll be practicing against a superb defense. The thing is...based on everything we've been told of next year, all of the QBs are spread QBs that are coming out. That's the reasoning as to why the Rams and Eagles made the trades up they did.

You put Goff in when you're convinced he's ready.

No, I just mean that in going Keenum, Foles, Goff that they'd actually cut Mannion...

Yeah... I'd actually laugh at that... in a "shake my head, why oh why" kind of laugh... you know.... like in the old days...