Play GM (Poll)

[V3]

Brain surgery wasn't the reason Quinn missed his final college season. He was kicked out.
BTW, from what I've read he had an issue with tickets, too.

He was kicked out for NCAA violations. Those concern me MUCH less than concerns about effort and attitude.

 

[V3]

He was? I didn't ever read that. Do you know what for Memphis?

They said he(and other players on the team) received travel accommodations and jewelry. I would bet a large portion of money that the big recruits across the nation receive some sort of compensation that the NCAA would find improper. They got caught, though.

 

[bwdenverram]

That was Peppers's biggest knock in college and throughout his career. They said he lacked the work ethic to be the best and didn't have a consistent motor. They were right...but the guy still ended up being a HOF caliber player.

As far as the rotation, we already rotate our players a lot. Sims and Hayes have a combined 700+ snaps this year. They both average playing around 35% to 40% of the snaps per game. Clowney could very easily play 40-50% of the snaps next year if we wanted him to. Hell, it's possible he would even eventually take Long's starting job.

Fair enough. Didn't recall that about Peppers. I still have my reservations though. To be honest, I haven't watched enough of Clowney this year. Simms and Hayes are decent players, especially Hayes. I'll let the Rams brass figure it out. Still don't think it's the best move but I won't hate it either if Clowney pans out.

 

[bwdenverram]

They said he(and other players on the team) received travel accommodations and jewelry. I would bet a large portion of money that the big recruits across the nation receive some sort of compensation that the NCAA would find improper. They got caught, though.

I see. Well like you said, that kind of stuff can be fixed. Work ethic is a big red flag for me. Who knows, maybe the pro's can change that, if it is a real issue.
I do want a top 5 D, so if Clowney is the guy, so be it.

 

[The Rammer]

That right there, don't do it. If you don't agree with my opinion, state differently. But the angle you're taking now is not the right one. I can quite easily post pictures I took from my seat in Williams-Brice Stadium. I have seen EVERY SINGLE GAME that Clowney has played in his career at SC. A good chunk of the games, I've seen live in person from my seat in the stadium.

Ummmm Hmmm Honestly I'm Just commenting in general not really at anyone in particular as I quoted no one. Just don't think Mr. Clowney is what everybody touts him to be from watching his games..

 

[jrry32]

Ummmm Hmmm Honestly I'm Just commenting in general not really at anyone in particular as I quoted no one. Just don't think Mr. Clowney is what everybody touts him to be from watching his games..

And from also watching his games, I think he is. You're entitled to your opinion. There's always going to be disagreement over prospects. I just think it's wrong to assume that people disagreeing didn't watch him. There, off my soapbox. :wink:

 

[Alan]

jrry32 looking at one side of the coin:
As far as the rotation, we already rotate our players a lot. Sims and Hayes have a combined 700+ snaps this year. They both average playing around 35% to 40% of the snaps per game. Clowney could very easily play 40-50% of the snaps next year if we wanted him to. Hell, it's possible he would even eventually take Long's starting job.

You can look at that from a different perspective. Sims and Hayes are both good players and very cheap (relatively in Hayes case). They would no longer get those snaps with Clowney on the roster and you would need to subtract their positive contributions from Clowney's to get a true picture of his own contribution. Plus, we'll always be able to afford to keep those two on our roster and benefit from their not inconsiderable contributions.

 

[max]

I know you asked max but while you're waiting for his reply let me ask you a question. Do 4-3 teams draft OLBs for their pass rushing abilities?

For myself, I'm much more interested in his ability to cover TEs and stop the run.

My view is that I want a dominant front 7 and if Barr is as good as I've been reading and watching then I'm visualizing the Rams D looking more like the 2000 Ravens D. I think Barr is a better natural pass rusher than Ogletree and I'm thinking they can play Barr on 3rd down with Long Quinn and Hayes on the LOS, and Ogletree and JL in coverage with 5 DBs.

After listening to Tyoka Jackson say he could't stand watching Clowney take all those plays off, I' really scared of Clowney. Plus I want my #2 overall pick on the field for every down as a rookie.

I want to see how Barr looks against V Tech on Tuesday. That's a huge game for him.

And I watched Van Noy, and he looks stiff to me.

Here's what OURLADs says about Barr..

Two-year starter. Moved to linebacker in the spring of 2012 after playing running back and Pistol fullback for two years. Projects as a 3-4 right outside pass rushing linebacker. Can beat an offensive tackle with his athletic ability. Sets the edge in the running game. Plays with knee bend and leverage. Gets under a tackle’s pads and can run him back to the quarterback. Has the speed to run down screen passes from behind. Plays square, locks out, and skates down the line of scrimmage. Explosive and sudden quickness off the ball on a speed rush. Tough to block on twist stunts. Can bend the corner. Equally as quick in a three or two point stance. Has a burst to the quarterback after he gets off the block. Quick change of direction in space. A four down linebacker who is effective dropping into coverage or breaking up on checkdowns. Has the strength to close and stack the off tackle seams. A natural that is still learning the position. His 2012 stats: 84 tackles, 13.5 sacks, 21.5 tackles for loss.Ranked eighth in the nation in sacks/gm average (0.96) and T-12th in the nation in tackles for loss/gm average (1.54). His sack total was second in the nation behind Jarvis Jones of Georgia, who had 14.5 while his tackles for loss total was tied for fourth in the nation.

 

[CGI_Ram]

This poll doesn't allow for trade down; Clowney could be boom or bust. I am lathering over the boom potential, but leery of the bust.

But for those that are enamoured with Mathews, a trade down still nets some pretty darn good offensive line prospects.

 

[max]

This poll doesn't allow for trade down; Clowney could be boom or bust. I am lathering over the boom potential, but leery of the bust.

But for those that are enamoured with Mathews, a trade down still nets some pretty darn good offensive line prospects.

I'm with you on Clowney. For me, this is no time to swing for the fences on a huge Boom or Bust guy.

Here's Boylhart on Clowney. Red Flags alert...

STRENGTHS
Jadeveon is a remarkably athletic defensive player. He has excellent explosion off the line of scrimmage along with the strength and the body length all teams are looking for in an impacting defensive end for a 4-3 team. If you make a mistake against this kid, he will make you pay and because of his athletic talents, offenses have to account for him on every play. His ability to explode to the play is unique and without a doubt impressive and this alone will make teams consider and draft him very high in this draft. His natural explosion off the line when pass rushing along with those long arms and body length includes the whole pass rushing package of excellent feet, balance, and strength. That makes Jadeveon one of the most unique defensive players ever to come out of the college level. I have no doubt that if Jadeveon goes to the combine and works out (in spite of his lack of impact play this year) he will be considered by most teams as a top ten pick.

CONCERNS
Jadeveon lacks the leadership and character skills to be the type of player you build your defense around in spite of his athletic ability. His lack of interest this year to improve when opponents have made him the focal point of their game plans is shocking. He has the strength to be strong at the point of attack, but seems to lack interest in doing that on every play. His mental stamina is a big question mark for me. His ability to handle the pressure and improve is a big question mark for me. This year Jadeveon hasn’t bothered (on film) to fight through double teams using good techniques. He seems to be content to bull rush and if he is bull rushing because his assignment is to shed and make tackles in a 2 gap system, then he is failing big time to complete his assignments. Teams are running right at him with success and good left tackles who might not be left tackles at the pro level are handling him one on one. I don’t see any improvement in pass rushing techniques from last year. I detect a lot of B.S. in his play.

BOTTOM LINE
Jadeveon is the type of player who coaches think that his greatness is just “one more” play away. He lacks the maturity right now to understand that he needs to get a lot better before he will impact at the next level. If he is holding back because he doesn’t want to get injured like some people are suggesting, all I can say is drafting that type of person is not for me. I mean seriously, is that the type of player you want to draft in the top ten? A player who decides when he wants to play and when he doesn’t? Is that the type of player (if selected in the top ten) you build your defense around? There is no doubt about his athletic talent, but there are big doubts for me about a player who lacks the maturity and work ethic to improve and be a team player and do the little things that makes his team’s defense better. Maybe two years from now, Jadeveon will mature and turn into a great player. But if I’m a top ten team, I’m building for now and not for two years from now. If I’m a playoff team with strong coaching, I might take a chance on drafting him in the first round but still if I’m putting my credibility and career on the line for a player, I’m not convinced Jadeveon is that player. It seems to me drafting him in the second round might be the best for Jadeveon, his future team, and my career. Trust me -- there is always another player who may not have the natural athletic talents, but plays better and more consistent on the field on every down. I will say this, when Jadeveon sees a pass rushing situation, he works very hard to get into the backfield to sack the QB and in spite of his athletic talents, still doesn’t get the job done. Think about it. Jadeveon is a boom or bust player, it’s really that simple.

 

[Alan]

max prioritizing front 7:
My view is that I want a dominant front 7 and if Barr is as good as I've been reading and watching then I'm visualizing the Rams D looking more like the 2000 Ravens D. I think Barr is a better natural pass rusher than Ogletree and I'm thinking they can play Barr on 3rd down with Long Quinn and Hayes on the LOS, and Ogletree and JL in coverage with 5 DBs.

OLB is one of my top priorities too. Only thing is, I'm not sure we can afford to take an OLB in the first round in lieu of the best CB available. The top CBS will go early IMO. If we trade down (with the Browns) and get another first round pick, then OT, CB and OLB in the first round and the best available FS in the 2nd round would be awesome! Short of that, I think the other priorities take precedence. But I follow your reasoning and it would make our front 7 one of the best in the NFL.

We need an awesome trade down to get all the things I asked Santa for.

 

[BonifayRam]

OLB is one of my top priorities too. Only thing is, I'm not sure we can afford to take an OLB in the first round in lieu of the best CB available. The top CBS will go early IMO. If we trade down (with the Browns) and get another first round pick, then OT, CB and OLB in the first round and the best available FS in the 2nd round would be awesome! Short of that, I think the other priorities take precedence. But I follow your reasoning and it would make our front 7 one of the best in the NFL.

We need an awesome trade down to get all the things I asked Santa for.

I have ZERO interest in an Lb'er in this draft.

 

[Alan]

BonifayRam not impressed with the available OLBs:
I have ZERO interest in an Lb'er in this draft.

Due to a perceived lack of need or because you're not impressed with what's available?

 

[BonifayRam]

This poll doesn't allow for trade down; Clowney could be boom or bust. I am lathering over the boom potential, but leery of the bust.

But for those that are enamoured with Mathews, a trade down still nets some pretty darn good offensive line prospects.

Yep I was looking for that 4th option in this pole too. I know the desire is to get an elite player with his either #1 or #2 pick but once again another trade similar to the 2012 trade would be so much better. Snead in spite of the poor performance of Snead second 2012 trade (trade down) that net- Brockers/Pead/Watkins where Pead & Watkins were just bad picks ...Snead has more than made up for this stinky with the others...his track record is OUTSTANDING so I say lets get him going once again maybe 3 or 4 trade downs & gather early second day draft picks that can assist us in the quest for "Winning TEAM FIRST building" not elite player building.

Snead :number1:will have to make some really tough decisions in freeing up present cap cash & future cap cash for some of our own UFA's & hopefully be ready to parlay in May's draft.

 

[CGI_Ram]

I just hope: we land #2 overall or better...

And...

Stock gets HOT for top prospects.

 

[BonifayRam]

Due to a perceived lack of need or because you're not impressed with what's available?

We have major foundational building issues (OT/OG/CB/S) that must be repaired & addressed before other additions to the lighting & paint (LB'ers) are brought in.

Fisher has so many young & bright LB'ers here that have not been hardly used due to lack of need. Armstrong, Bates, Steward & Brown to name a few. Rams play 2 Lb'ers most of the time the defense is on the field...not sure how much another Lb'er will help this team if any at the expense of the mandated need issues. Dunbar could hardly get on he field after he returned from his suspension plus he was not missed much. But by all means I am sure there is room on the bench/sideline for more Lb'ers if that what you guys want just not needed.

 

[Alan]

BonifayRam mostly in sync with me:
We have major foundational building issues (OT/OG/CB/S) that must be repaired & addressed before other additions to the lighting & paint (LB'ers) are brought in.

Fisher has so many young & bright LB'ers here that have not been hardly used due to lack of need. Armstrong, Bates, Steward & Brown to name a few. Rams play 2 Lb'ers most of the time the defense is on the field...not sure how much another Lb'er will help this team if any at the expense of the mandated need issues. Dunbar could hardly get on he field after he returned from his suspension plus he was not missed much. But by all means I am sure there is room on the bench/sideline for more Lb'ers if that what you guys want just not needed.

Barring an extra pick or two I'm pretty much in line with your thinking. I do have a couple of nits to pick. I think you might be forgetting that we can probably pick up a good OG in the 3rd or 4th round. If you agree with that then here's my scenario: OT & CB in the 1st round. FS in the 2nd round and OG in the 3rd round. I think you'd have no problem with that and so if we get an extra first round pick we could easily slip in a studly OLB and still accomplish our other goals.

The second nit I'd pick has to do with your assessment of the LBs currently on the roster. All of them seem to be good against the run and deficient in their coverage skills. They also weren't able to crack the starting lineup and we were forced to bring back Dunbar. In obvious passing downs we usually go with an extra DB which is theoretically fine but we are still highly vulnerable to the first and second down pass play. I want to fix that problem too. OLBs with complete games can't be found in the lower rounds IMO.

 

[max]

I think a great football player can make a huge impact at LB.

Imagine this from the opposition viewpoint. I think a great front 7 is the most intimidating configuration in football. It makes playing DB so easy.

Just put 7 great defensive players on the field at the same time and let their athleticism wreak havoc.

 

[RamzFanz]

There's more risk with Clowney. He may be more physically gifted but there are character concerns. That's why some people aren't as sure about him as you.

Which is how you get better value. Trade down and still get Clowney?

 

[BonifayRam]

Barring an extra pick or two I'm pretty much in line with your thinking. I do have a couple of nits to pick. I think you might be forgetting that we can probably pick up a good OG in the 3rd or 4th round.
Ok my fellow senior ROD'mer here I go but wait I have to reboot my one brain cell.......................Name me the last 3rd or 4th rd OG that the Rams have drafted that has been anyway close to successful as a Ram?

If you agree with that then here's my scenario: OT & CB in the 1st round. FS in the 2nd round and OG in the 3rd round.
No Sir no issues with trying to target these positions with the Rams current first & second day selections. I would target OT's or OG's who have a ton of experience playing both OT positions.

I think you'd have no problem with that ....
No Sir

....and so if we get an extra first round pick we could easily slip in a studly OLB and still accomplish our other goals.
I have a very big issue with this. If I have three first rders I am targeting the best CB, hopefully 1a-Dennard first then going for target two OT's. First targeted OT is 1b-(Kouandjio or Erving) then the 2nd targeted OT's would be 1c- (OLG/OLT Robinson, ORT/ORG Ogbuehi or OLT Lewan) then I targeting 2a- Safety/Nickle-Back Lamarcus Joyner. Forget about the Lb'er until this targeting is accomplished.

1a-CB Dennard
1b-OLT (Kouandjio or Erving)
1c-OLG/OLT/ORT (Robinson or Ogbuehi)
2a-S/Nickle-Joyer

The second nit I'd pick has to do with your assessment of the LBs currently on the roster. All of them seem to be good against the run and deficient in their coverage skills.
Disagree I have not seen enough of these Ram Lb'ers to know how specific their strengths or weaknesses are but I do know the are all very fast & Bates & Ray Ray sure can hit ! Both of these have safetys in their back ground.

They also weren't able to crack the starting lineup and we were forced to bring back Dunbar.
Fisher went with well seasoned veteran who could play all the required LB'ing positions while Dunbar was gone. None of these rookie Lb'ers got any shot to fill Dunbar place because there was no space to fill...Spoon had it all covered!

In obvious passing downs we usually go with an extra DB which is theoretically fine but we are still highly vulnerable to the first and second down pass play. I want to fix that problem too. OLBs with complete gmes can't be found in the lower rounds IMO.
My thought is you have your DB's fix this problem...we had two very serious injuries in the secondary with CF & TJ Mac. Forcing Fisher to use safety Giordano in place of TJ Mac & safety McLeod to fill in for Nickel CF ...that then required safety Stewart to fill McLeod safety duties...Neither of those two back ups were up to the job! New rookies like CB Dennard & S/Nickle Joyner will more than fix it!

Just saying.... oh yes most important Wishing you & family a wonderful Happy New Year !