Petty working out for Rams at Waco

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DR RAM

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I agree whole heartedly once again. I'd be very disappointed if we drafted Petty.

We view the Qb's the same except the top one.
Mariota first, then Winston, Grayson, then Hundley. I might take Petty in the 4th or 5th round, that is if we have those from trading around draft time.
And I could work with any of those guys, except Grayson. So, I guess we'll see how they all pan, or if any of them pan out. Fuck it, just pick a QB every year, until we get lucky, like the Seahags. Hopefully, though, we get lucky this year.

If only I could take a couple of these guys, and morph them together.
 
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Corbin

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If only I could take a couple of these guys, and morph them together.


Well we could pull a Billicheat " It's not against the rules..... yet" type of thing and start a genetic baby factory and withing 20 years or so we'll be a on going dynasty! :D
i hope we either get Petty or Hundley. Graysons arm just reminds me to much of AD.

I don't get how the guy who has the best deep throwing arm statistically in college football last years arm reminds you of AD? If I'm not mistaken AD has always been compared to Petty as his Pro comparison.
 

jrry32

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Well we could pull a Billicheat " It's not against the rules..... yet" type of thing and start a genetic baby factory and withing 20 years or so we'll be a on going dynasty! :D


I don't get how the guy who has the best deep throwing arm statistically in college football last years arm reminds you of AD? If I'm not mistaken AD has always been compared to Petty as his Pro comparison.

I don't get it either. I feel like people just get too hung on arm strength. Here are the top 7 QBs in the NFL:
1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Peyton Manning
3. Tom Brady
4. Drew Brees
5. Ben Roethlisberger
6. Andrew Luck
7. Philip Rivers

The only one of those seven that would rank in the top 5 among starting QBs in arm strength is Rodgers. In fact, over half(4 of the 7) would rank average to below average among current starters in arm strength.

Yet, it seems like year after year, people put so much weight in how strong a guy's arm is.
 

thehammer

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agree 100% with DR Ram ..keep picking till you find one

Petty is attractive because of his arm strength and athleticism...similar to Hundley but with better pocket presence

still like Grayson and Mannion more but could easily see Petty being the 3rd qb taken
 

Corbin

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I don't get it either. I feel like people just get too hung on arm strength. Here are the top 7 QBs in the NFL:
1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Peyton Manning
3. Tom Brady
4. Drew Brees
5. Ben Roethlisberger
6. Andrew Luck
7. Philip Rivers

The only one of those seven that would rank in the top 5 among starting QBs in arm strength is Rodgers. In fact, over half(4 of the 7) would rank average to below average among current starters in arm strength.

Yet, it seems like year after year, people put so much weight in how strong a guy's arm is.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I'll take accuracy over arm strength any day of the week.
 

Elmgrovegnome

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I don't get it either. I feel like people just get too hung on arm strength. Here are the top 7 QBs in the NFL:
1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Peyton Manning
3. Tom Brady
4. Drew Brees
5. Ben Roethlisberger
6. Andrew Luck
7. Philip Rivers

The only one of those seven that would rank in the top 5 among starting QBs in arm strength is Rodgers. In fact, over half(4 of the 7) would rank average to below average among current starters in arm strength.

Yet, it seems like year after year, people put so much weight in how strong a guy's arm is.

You don't think Roethliberger has a strong arm? I would disagree. He threw very deep passes regularly to Mike Wallace.
 

JonRam99

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Couldn't have said it better myself. I'll take accuracy over arm strength any day of the week.
No doubt. In fact, I'd love to have a QB who can throw a pass to a WR in stride--can't tell you how many times I watched Bradford, as great an arm as he has, throw behind receivers who'd have to contort to make a catch. Warner was great at throwing WR's open & throwing to them in stride.
 

DR RAM

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Well we could pull a Billicheat " It's not against the rules..... yet" type of thing and start a genetic baby factory and withing 20 years or so we'll be a on going dynasty! :D


I don't get how the guy who has the best deep throwing arm statistically in college football last years arm reminds you of AD? If I'm not mistaken AD has always been compared to Petty as his Pro comparison.
Deep passes and a strong arm, don't necessarily correlate, especially when you are talking about the context of what they did in college. If anything, having pocket protection, and a WR with long speed, or a certain system correlate better with that stat.

As far as arm strength: @jrry32 proves that it doesn't mean everything, by that list.
It's nice to have both though, see Aaron Rodgers, and that is one of the differences between him, and Andrew Luck. Rodgers still has the arm strength to squeeze deep balls in late, over the middle, because of his big arm, and accuracy. Luck, gets those passes picked off. Having a quick clean release is a big deal too, when we are dealing with fractions of seconds that can make the difference in getting stripped, or getting rid of the ball.

There are tons of other attributes that make a quality QB, too many to list, and even if I listed them all, no QB has them all. It's an imperfect science-- finding a QB, but if you are building one, which is what we have to do, why not start with a guy that has the most weapons in his arsenal. There are probably only a handful of guys that could be successful in every different type of system in the NFL. Being the right fit, means more.

Looks to me like we are building a system like our division rivals, good defense, special teams, ball control, and trying to limit mistakes. We don't need Aaron Rodgers, but I'd sure like to have him.
 

BonifayRam

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I know what you mean about Baylor QBs and him warranting a 3rd round grade. The problem is - he'll be gone by the 3rd round. I wouldn't mind it if we took him with our second. He throws a nice spiral and can develop behind Foles. Get Cooper with our 1 (I know...I know...he's gone by 5 at the latest - and so is White) and then go oline for the rest of the draft.

So Fisher gets a back up WR in the first round then a back up QB in the second round then the hunt to find some starters in the OL is on. Wonder if we should turn that scenario around ?
 

jrry32

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You don't think Roethliberger has a strong arm? I would disagree. He threw very deep passes regularly to Mike Wallace.

Strong arm? Sure. But not a top 5 arm among starters in the NFL. He'd probably be near the bottom part of the top 10.
 

dieterbrock

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Superior arm strength isnt required but lack of arm strength is a very strong deterrent
 

Merlin

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Couldn't coach Blaine Gabbert's arm talent either. Same with JaMarcus Russell. Same with Josh Freeman. Same with a number of other unsuccessful QBs. Arm strength is one of the least important aspects of the QB position. There's a minimal amount you need for it to be functional in the NFL...beyond that, it's just cake. Nice to have but it's not something that makes a large difference.

If you believe in Petty, I'd have to hope it's for a lot more than him having a strong arm...because instincts, mental acuity, and ball placement are the difference makers. And personally, I don't believe in Petty when it comes to those three aspects.

To be clear when I say "arm talent" I am not talking solely of arm strength. I'm including his ability to make throws like fades into the end zone with a defender bearing down on him, or dropping a pass deep down a sideline where his receiver can make a play on it. It includes touch and accuracy on his throws, like not gunning a short pass that ends up being dropped or popped into the air and intercepted. When I watch his film his throwing ability is special.

Rogers fell to late first round where Green Bay took him due to teams over-nuking concerns with his system and production in spite of his arm talent and production. There are a lot of similarities between Rogers and Petty. Petty is also an excellent athlete who can move far better than many realize. Both have high end arm talent. Both had big concerns over trumped up stats in a wide open system and projected ability to adjust to NFL defenses. Rogers was undervalued for that reason and the same thing is occurring with Petty. Not saying Petty's ceiling is Rogers, but there are definite similarities in my estimation.

But I don't mind others disagreeing with me, btw. I respect your view and it will be interesting to see how this class performs through the next few years. Oh and btw the QB that will make me cry on draft day is Winston, because I think his character risk is going to outweigh his ability. IMO he's got bust written all over him much moreso than either Petty or Hundley.
 

jrry32

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To be clear when I say "arm talent" I am not talking solely of arm strength. I'm including his ability to make throws like fades into the end zone with a defender bearing down on him, or dropping a pass deep down a sideline where his receiver can make a play on it. It includes touch and accuracy on his throws, like not gunning a short pass that ends up being dropped or popped into the air and intercepted. When I watch his film his throwing ability is special.

Rogers fell to late first round where Green Bay took him due to teams over-nuking concerns with his system and production in spite of his arm talent and production. There are a lot of similarities between Rogers and Petty. Petty is also an excellent athlete who can move far better than many realize. Both have high end arm talent. Both had big concerns over trumped up stats in a wide open system and projected ability to adjust to NFL defenses. Rogers was undervalued for that reason and the same thing is occurring with Petty. Not saying Petty's ceiling is Rogers, but there are definite similarities in my estimation.

But I don't mind others disagreeing with me, btw. I respect your view and it will be interesting to see how this class performs through the next few years. Oh and btw the QB that will make me cry on draft day is Winston, because I think his character risk is going to outweigh his ability. IMO he's got bust written all over him much moreso than either Petty or Hundley.

Fair enough. I just don't see the same thing. See him missing too many give me passes for me to trust his accuracy. But that's just one man's opinion.
 

jrry32

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Superior arm strength isnt required but lack of arm strength is a very strong deterrent

Yea but all of the guys being considered have functional arm strength. Mannion is the only guy that would even make me a bit nervous in that department.
 

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To me, it's Mariota and Winston in a tie, then Grayson and Heinicke (who is seriously underrated). Then...nobody. Just my opinion, and I could definitely be wrong, but I don't see anything good in Petty or Hundley.
 

Elmgrovegnome

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To me, it's Mariota and Winston in a tie, then Grayson and Heinicke (who is seriously underrated). Then...nobody. Just my opinion, and I could definitely be wrong, but I don't see anything good in Petty or Hundley.

I would prefer a late round flyer on a very raw talent and put the chips into next years basket instead of forcing a pick on a guy that they normally wouldn't be considering at QB. I think Snead and Fisher are convincing themselves that these QBs are worth picking because they need to address the situation, especially after totally botching it last year. Who here wouldn't trade Joyner for Carr, or Bridgewater, Mettenberger, or even Garapolo right now?

I think Fisher and Snead are in QB panic mode and are going to overdraft a guy that never even makes a good backup. I hope they don't blow a 2nd or 3rd rounder on one of these guys. .
 

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I would prefer a late round flyer on a very raw talent and put the chips into next years basket instead of forcing a pick on a guy that they normally wouldn't be considering at QB. I think Snead and Fisher are convincing themselves that these QBs are worth picking because they need to address the situation, especially after totally botching it last year. Who here wouldn't trade Joyner for Carr, or Bridgewater, Mettenberger, or even Garapolo right now?

I think Fisher and Snead are in QB panic mode and are going to overdraft a guy that never even makes a good backup. I hope they don't blow a 2nd or 3rd rounder on one of these guys. .

We'll see about Joyner. One year does not a career make. I'd take a good starting free safety over Mettenberger definitely (who has enormous character issues). Bridgewater and Carr, probably not, but we never had a shot at either of them, unless we subtracted Donald. Garrapolo is the only one who has a claim, and who knows how he's going to turn out?

Again, I'll take a backup quarterback like Heinicke or Grayson in a later round. I'll take Mariota. I agree with you in that I don't want them to take a quarterback over a better prospect.
 

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We'll see about Joyner. One year does not a career make. I'd take a good starting free safety over Mettenberger definitely (who has enormous character issues). Bridgewater and Carr, probably not, but we never had a shot at either of them, unless we subtracted Donald. Garrapolo is the only one who has a claim, and who knows how he's going to turn out?

Again, I'll take a backup quarterback like Heinicke or Grayson in a later round. I'll take Mariota. I agree with you in that I don't want them to take a quarterback over a better prospect.

They may have been able to trade up for Carr or Bridgewater is what I meant. I really wanted Garapolo and think he has great potential. His release is very quick and his pocket presense was good. He had great awareness and didn't hesitate to make a decision to throw or run. Decisiveness is a great trait to have in a Qb. Supposedly the Patriots really like what the have in him and consider him Brady's successor.
I hope that Weinke is a QB whisperer because I really don't think Fisher knows how to develop a QB.
I don't like Grayson or Heinicke much. Maybe Heinicke as a UDFA would be okay. I watched Grayson and was not impressed. I'd go with Connor Haliday as an UDFA instead and try to develop him. Otherwise fix as much as possible this season and put all of the eggs in the QB basket for next draft. They could fix the OLine , and still land a MLB or DE and get a WR and Corner with raw potential later and take care of a lot of issues this year. Then they could really free up options to move up next year when there will be some better options. I know they should be drafting later next year but if their are more/better prospects next year it shouldn't matter. If they are way way back in the draft order, like 30+ then that means they probably have to think seriously about giving Foles a big contract and wont need another Qb