Peter King: MMQB - 12/26/16(Recommends Asshole Face to coach the Rams)

[Corbin]

I appreciate someone who disagrees with me spelling out why and laying out a case. Thank you. It's a discussion forum and disagreements make it interesting as long as people are respectful, like this case.

I just feel like he's never had a balanced team. Even with the great coordinators his defenses always suck. That's a major concern for me. He is great at finding receivers. Not sure how great he is at developing QBs. Brees was a developed QB already. He has gotten Brees to play at an historic level though.

I agree with you Fro I don't want Peyton here. He's been average the last half decade ( does that sound familiar?) plus giving up a first or whatever else is just crap due to our current situation.

Everyone always says a reasoning that we have a defense now but 3-4 seasons down the road where do you think the majority of money and picks will be used and our D slumps into shambles. Sounds like the polar twin to fisher huh? Lol

I'd much prefer Gruden or the Shannahans by far.

Also, how has Coach Cower not once been mentioned? I'm surprised how they dig up or bring up 427 random names but not his at all.
Same with Brian Billick. Freaks me out why the doesn't get a chance.

 

[Dodgersrf]

Just thought I'd throw this in... there has been some great Rams Football talk the last few days.

 

[OldSchool]

Ok I now hate the different opinion button. I don't mind people disagreeing. Just tell me why.

I agree, hell I got an inappropriate flag the other day for pointing out that GRob's salary next year is guaranteed so that made it unlikely he would be outright cut. Not sure what was inappropriate about that. People may disagree but inappropriate? haha

 

[jrry32]

I agree with you Fro I don't want Peyton here. He's been average the last half decade ( does that sound familiar?) plus giving up a first or whatever else is just crap due to our current situation.

His record over the last half decade is 45-34 (.569). That's not average. And no, that doesn't sound familiar.

I had a big long post written up. But I'll just say this. Look at Payton's teams over the past 3 years. Can anyone honestly tell me that those teams UNDERACHIEVED based on their talent level?

If no, does Payton have personnel control?

If no, why is Payton at fault for his teams either overachieving or achieving what their talent level says they should if he's not responsible for putting the roster together?

To address your concerns that he'll destroy the defense by using all his picks on the offense:
7 of the 12 first round picks of the Saints during the Payton era were on the DEFENSIVE side of the ball.

Asshole Face is having the same issues that Andy Reid had in Philly and Tom Coughlin had in Jax. His GMs put rosters together that weren't that good. A few down years have led people to forget how great of a coach he is. All I have to say is look what Andy Reid is doing in KC. Look at what Coughlin did in New York.

Asshole Face took the Saints from a laughingstock to a Super Bowl Champion. He's had a few down years while they rebuild due to cap problems. He's kept that team afloat. Don't underestimate the guy.

 

[kurtfaulk]

I agree, hell I got an inappropriate flag the other day for pointing out that GRob's salary next year is guaranteed so that made it unlikely he would be outright cut. Not sure what was inappropriate about that. People may disagree but inappropriate? haha

Because alot of people are now using smart phones and as they scroll down with their thumb they inadvertently touch the inappropriate symbol. Sometimes they don't notice and don't undo the rating.

That's how i get alot of my likes i think.:rolllaugh:

.

 

[jrry32]

In fact, I just realized that John Harbaugh's last 5 years haven't been incredible either. Payton's record over that time is 45-34. Harbaugh's is 41-38. Yet, I still think John Harbaugh is one of the best coaches in the NFL. And let's not forget that he won a Super Bowl in 2012. Payton won one in 2009. These guys didn't suddenly lose their ability to coach. Coaches just aren't immune to their teams having a few tough years. That's especially true in the salary cap era.

 

[Corbin]

His record over the last half decade is 45-34 (.569). That's not average. And no, that doesn't sound familiar.

I had a big long post written up. But I'll just say this. Look at Payton's teams over the past 3 years. Can anyone honestly tell me that those teams UNDERACHIEVED based on their talent level?

If no, does Payton have personnel control?

If no, why is Payton at fault for his teams either overachieving or achieving what their talent level says they should if he's not responsible for putting the roster together?

To address your concerns that he'll destroy the defense by using all his picks on the offense:
7 of the 12 first round picks of the Saints during the Payton era were on the DEFENSIVE side of the ball.

Asshole Face is having the same issues that Andy Reid had in Philly and Tom Coughlin had in Jax. His GMs put rosters together that weren't that good. A few down years have led people to forget how great of a coach he is. All I have to say is look what Andy Reid is doing in KC. Look at what Coughlin did in New York.

Asshole Face took the Saints from a laughingstock to a Super Bowl Champion. He's had a few down years while they rebuild due to cap problems. He's kept that team afloat. Don't underestimate the guy.

45 and 34 is damn near average with one game above .500 in that span just like one game bellow is near average.

Mickey Loomis has been running things since 2002 they won a super bowl? Does that mean Asshole Face shouldn't get any of the credit from what your saying since he's not in charge of personal? Excellent. Since he has no credit for putting together any playoff or super bowl teams what good is he?

Furthermore, you tried to make the point he doesn't make personal decisions but 7 of 12 picks were defensive, obviously the defense has been run into the ground for years and they tried to correct it this last draft.

I don't care what Reid or Coughlin did elsewhere we are talking about Asshole Face in LA and I don't like the idea.

 

[jrry32]

45 and 34 is damn near average with one game above .500 in that span just like one game bellow is near average.

Mike Tomlin is 47-32 over his last 5 years. Is he also average? Andy Reid is 46-33...average as well?

How many coaches have actually posted significantly better records over the past 5 years? Off the top of my head, we have Pete Carroll, Bill Belichick, Mike McCarthy...then...?

Mickey Loomis has been running things since 2002 they won a super bowl? Does that mean Asshole Face shouldn't get any of the credit from what your saying since he's not in charge of personal? Excellent. Since he has no credit for putting together any playoff or super bowl teams what good is he?

Yep. Asshole Face shouldn't get credit for putting the teams together. He should get credit for coaching them. What good is he? Well, he's a coach not a GM so...

Furthermore, you tried to make the point he doesn't make personal decisions but 7 of 12 picks were defensive, obviously the defense has been run into the ground for years and they tried to correct it this last draft.

I think you are misunderstanding what I said. I said that 7 of their 12 FIRST ROUND PICKS during Payton's time in New Orleans were defensive players. The idea that we'd ignore the defense under Payton is a baseless theory. Payton didn't make personnel decisions in New Orleans, so we have no idea what they'd do. But New Orleans didn't neglect the defense in the draft.

What Payton did show was the ability to coach up a whole hell of a lot of players that the Saints selected outside of the first round.

I don't care what Reid or Coughlin did elsewhere we are talking about Asshole Face in LA and I don't like the idea.

That's fine. But your reasons for not liking the idea are the same reasons that you could have held against Reid or Coughlin. Payton is a proven coach. He's won a Super Bowl. He took a laughingstock franchise from the doormat to one of the NFL's winningest franchises over the past decade.

Comparing him to Jeff Fisher does him a great disservice. Jon Gruden is beloved by the media, but the fact is that Asshole Face has been a more successful head coach than Jon Gruden.

If the Rams can get him, they should. You rarely get a shot at a proven Super Bowl winning HC.

You're entitled to your views, but respectfully, I disagree. And I have a problem with people claiming that Payton is Jeff Fisher. If Jeff Fisher were a Asshole Face-level HC, he'd still be employed here.

 

[Lesson]

@jrry32 Reid had final say over personnel in Philly his last 10 years there. Heckert and Roseman were essentially like Snead. In KC, I'm not sure if Reid has final say, but he and Dorsey both report directly to the owner.

To my knowledge, Payton doesn't have final say over personnel. So, what I'm saying is Reid made his own roster in Philly, unlike Payton in NOLA.

I don't understand why people are skeptical of Payton. Loomis is the one who has constructed the roster and is why the defense has been such a mess. Payton has at least tried addressing the issue with what he can via using different coordinators who are not at all similar(Gibbs, Williams, Spags, Ryan, Allen). Fisher never really tried that with OC aside from Schotty with the Rams.

 

[dieterbrock]

Ok I now hate the different opinion button. I don't mind people disagreeing. Just tell me why.

Agreed
Isnt that the point of a discussion board?

 

[MTRamsFan]

2. I think if I’m the Rams, I’m looking into Asshole Face thoroughly. This is the year, I believe, that Payton can be had from the Saints. He needs a new challenge. A coach as good as he is, with a quarterback as good as Drew Brees, should not be 38-40 in the past five regular seasons.

So, what makes anyone think he will do better in LA? Payton's philosophy has always been to outscore the opponent. He doesn't place a high regard for defense which is why I don't want him. I want a coach who is going to place equal importance on offense, defense and special teams. I'm tired of having one or two facets of the game without the other.

 

[PressureD41]

If its does become Peyton (my hope) I hope he can bring Dennis Allen as DC. Just say no to Gus

 

[OldSchool]

So, what makes anyone think he will do better in LA? Payton's philosophy has always been to outscore the opponent. He doesn't place a high regard for defense which is why I don't want him. I want a coach who is going to place equal importance on offense, defense and special teams. I'm tired of having one or two facets of the game without the other.

Sorry but a guy who's brought in respected DC's like Dennis Allen, Rob Ryan, Steve Spagnolo and Gregg Williams cares about defense. He brings in people and gives them control over their side of the ball. I just don't think they've drafted well on defense nor signed good free agents on defense. That makes him the opposite of Fisher who didn't bring in competent OC's.

 

[bubbaramfan]

Whoops! Fat fingers Oldschool

 

[Zero]

Payton with Gus Bradley as DC

That would be very nice,very nice indeed.That would alleviate my biggest concern
with Peyton.

 

[Mackeyser]

So, what makes anyone think he will do better in LA? Payton's philosophy has always been to outscore the opponent. He doesn't place a high regard for defense which is why I don't want him. I want a coach who is going to place equal importance on offense, defense and special teams. I'm tired of having one or two facets of the game without the other.

@jrry32 has been articulating the points regarding Asshole Face in more depth than I would choose to at this time.

It is empirical fact that Payton is not in any way equivalent to Fisher. The only similarity has been one side of the ball performs to a lesser degree, but for substantially different reasons.

Fisher had final personnel say.
Fisher refused to hire top talent for coaching that side of the ball.
Fisher wasn't at any time in cap hell.

Payton didn't have final personnel say.
Payton hired top coaching talent.
Payton was mired in cap hell for years because the FO so badly mismanaged the cap.

They don't compare at all.

Asshole Face placed a substantial importance on defense. But when the people picking don't leave money to retain good players or make ridiculous signings that put the team in cap hell and then keep missing on defensive draft pick after defensive draft pick...NONE of which were part of his job... What was he supposed to do?

He didn't always have the best offensive talent, either, but found ways to get massive production from them.

And we saw that with players on D and a competent defensive staff, he can win it all.

And let's not forget the owner in all this... It's not like Tom Benson is blameless...

Put it all together and Payton is the right fit for the Rams.

 

[Zero]

I agree about that button. I'll be happy to explain to you why.
1. Asshole Face is very different than Jeff Fisher. Note that Asshole Face's DCs in New Orleans all had strong track records before signing with the Saints. Payton allowed them a lot of leeway to choose the defensive scheme and philosophy. This is not true of Fisher. Payton sticks to what he knows. He hires respected defensive minds to handle the defense. When evaluating that sort of thing, you have to consider whether the failure of the defense is due to the head coach not staying in his lane, due to the personnel, or due to bad hires. In Payton's case, it's due to the personnel. That's not something Payton has a lot of control over. Jeff Fisher left a lot of good pieces on the defensive side of the ball.

2. Mike Smith isn't being considered because he's a defensive coach. We need someone who can get the best out of Goff.

3. It's easy to criticize Payton for "only" having 5 winning seasons in 10 years as a HC. But the fact is that the Saints had only 7 winning seasons from the franchise's founding in 1967 until Payton was hired in 2006. The Saints were also 1-5 in the playoffs over that span of time. Payton went 6-4 in the playoffs in his 10 years there. The Saints were not ever considered a well-run franchise prior to Payton. Truthfully, they still aren't. Their GM, Mickey Loomis, has completely whiffed on the defensive side of the ball. It's easy to blame Payton for the defense, but he's not the guy with personnel control. He's certainly not hiring unproven defensive coordinators or interfering with them. Nor is he overly loyal to them. I think most people would consider it impressive to coach the Browns to 5 winning seasons in 10 years. When Payton got to New Orleans, they weren't a lot different than the Browns.

4. Payton also is very different than Fisher because Jeff Fisher has 6 winning seasons in 22 years. Asshole Face has 5 winning seasons in 10 years. That's not similar. Further, Payton's offenses finished among the best in the NFL year in and year out during his tenure in New Orleans. That's not true of Fisher's defenses. Claiming that Fisher and Payton are both very good on one side of the ball is simply not an accurate comparison. Payton is elite on one side of the ball. Fisher is merely good. Fisher's teams have finished in the top 10 in points allowed three times in 22 years as a HC. Payton's teams have finished top 2 in points scored four times in 10 years as a HC. There is no comparison.

5. Look at the pieces we have and what we need. We have a lot of talented pieces on defense. We have a #1 overall QB and a talented HB. We need OL help, WR help, and a little work on the defense. What does Payton specialize in? Developing QBs, finding WRs outside of the first round, and building effective OLs. Those are things he's consistently shown the ability to do in New Orleans. Asshole Face and the Rams fit together like a puzzle piece. The things we need are the things he does best. The things we have are the things he hasn't shown himself to be especially great at.

I like the idea of Peyton being a Parcells disciple.You seem to have done some
homework on the subject.Does he run as tight of a ship as Parcells?
Aside from finding someone who can develop this offense,we are a team
in dire need of accountability and discipline.
Did you hear the commentator talking about all the lazy routes
he saw in our game against the 49ers?Pathetic.

 

[dieterbrock]

The bad news for "Payton to Rams" supporters,is that this has supplanted Gruden as my #1 choice for the team
Its a perfect fit IMO and makes the Rams a legit contender next year
So of course, it will never happen now....

 

[bubbaramfan]

Mack example: Saints signing of James Laurenitus.

 

[Ramlock]

'Different opinion' is not a negative mark against a member. We changed it from 'disagree' to make it as neutral as possible. That said, it's always a good idea to let the member know why you differ from their opinion, as @jrry32 did in the above post.

I think it's a given on a message board that posters will disagree with other posters and sometimes we don't have time to devote to extensive replies.

I don't.

And I fully expect to be disagreeable.:neener: