Past QB question

[fearsomefour]

This is just my opinion, but I think things are just very overblown nowadays with all the social media and everything.

Peyton Manning: http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dis...manning-had-his-own-sexual-misconduct-scandal

I also think John Elway and Eli Manning, refusing to play for teams, is a character issue in and of itself. Brett Favre had issues that I am certain would have been discussed and perhaps other stuff dug up if he went to college or as an early pro, had social media been like it is now.

I'd definitely say Brett and Peyton are legit examples of guys that were extremely successful in spite of questionable off the field issues.

You bring a good point.
So easy for people to forget about "the Princes" problems. Favre was in rehab for Christs' sake.
If a guy is accused of something (look at Kap last offseason for a quick example) and nothing comes of it....I don't think its an issue. Maybe a judgement issue with hooking up with some chick you met online or at a bar, outside of that, not a real issue.

 

[fearsomefour]

Heck, even Newton has a ways to go before living up to his hype/athleticism.

But I can't think of many if any. All the big name QBs, at least, coming into the game, didn't seem to have any huge character concerns.

Newton has not been in trouble. But, like you said, he has a long way to go to live up to the hype. All the nonsense with him and his father during his college career shows a very entitled attitude. I am sure the NFL has humbled him some. But, the guy still hasn't taken the time to fix his footwork. Sometimes he can make amazing throws (blessed with an arm delivered from on high) and sometimes he can miss wide open guys....the footwork doesn't lie.

 

[fearsomefour]

"In the suit, Manning was accused by a then-University of Tennessee female trainer of dropping his pants during an injury examination, and placing his buttocks and private parts on her face."
Omaha, Omaha, Omaha....
For the love of God can half his sponsors please pull their deals with him? So tired of his weirdo, smug giant face on my tv every 5 seconds.

 

[Memento]

Under what law would they prevent Gilmour from coming back into the country? Note that Gilmour was never arrested for rape. In fact, that was largely the reason why the girl's lawyer was arrested; they never reported the alleged crime to the authorities, and instead went right to Gilmour asking for money to keep it quiet. When Gilmour refused they sued him, still never reporting it as a crime. Since of course the lawsuit made it very public a grand jury was convened to see if there was enough evidence to indict and arrest, and that grand jury decided there wasn't.

The accusation against Gilmour was not reported to authorities. In October, the grand jury indicted Richard E. Schwartz, an attorney for the girl's parents, and accused him of trying to obtain money from the Blues in exchange for his silence in the matter.

At no point could Canada prevent him from coming into the country. He had never been arrested, he was never charged, there was never a trial, and certainly not an ongoing one. There was a lawsuit, and as it turns out a fraudulent one at that, that was settled out-of-court.

Its cool. If you think Gilmour should still be in prison and/or that he only got off because of the corrupt St. Louis legal system then so be it. Can't be proven otherwise. I can only tell you what actually happened, which is he was never charged with a crime, never paid a dime in penalties for his actions, and was in fact compensated for the accusations made against him.

The same law that has prevented any other sex offender/child rapist from coming into the country. And the grand jury had not dropped the charges before Gilmour had played for the Flames. There's absolutely no reason why he should have ever been allowed to play hockey at that time; the only reason he did was because he was a high-profile superstar, and as both of us know, the NHL always coddles and protects their superstars, even to this day. That's the way it has been for decades; how else would Dany fucking Heatley be allowed to even play in the NHL after killing his own teammate in a drunk driving crash? It was because his teammate was a fourth-line player, and Heatley, at the time, was one of the best scoring wings in the NHL. Why else would Todd motherfucking Bertuzzi not be banned for life for what he did to Steve Moore? Because Bertuzzi, at the time, was one of the best power-forwards in the game. Moore? He was barely on Colorado's roster. So long as thuggish behavior is committed by superstars, the NHL will always let them off, and it's one of the main reasons why it's barely even considered a sport by most of the United States.

 

[DaveFan'51]

Collin Cowherd posed a question and I really had to think on it.

He said how many college QBs that had character/immaturity issues ended up becoming good NFL QBs. He claimed none of them. I would say Cam Newton but I couldn't think of any others. But I have been known to have a terrible memory and it gets worse every year.





He also said that he believes that if you are given millions then you only become more of what you are and not likely to change. He cited that Russell Wilson was nice and now may be even nicer because he can afford to do nice things. He cited that Johnny Manziel was a campus partier and now that he has millions he has just become more of a partier that flies to Miami for a night and Vegas for a night.

Anyone have any opinions on this theory?

Well, Kenny Stabler, of the Old Raiders, LOVED HIS PARTYING, and he didn't do too bad as an NFL QB! Do you think he would have been Drafted in todays NFL!?

 

[BadCompany]

The same law that has prevented any other sex offender/child rapist from coming into the country.

Except he wasn't a sex offender or child rapist. Never even arrested for it, never mind actually convicted of it.

 

[Memento]

Except he wasn't a sex offender or child rapist. Never even arrested for it, never mind actually convicted of it.

Except he was still under trial at the time. There's no way that Canada should have ever let him into their country if he was involved in a lawsuit of that magnitude. Same reason that the coach who molested Theo Fleury and two other junior hockey players should have never been allowed to coach again.

 

[Boston Ram]

Or it's because the older generations always want to bitch about the younger generations. Your generation wasn't immune either.

Like any generation, this one has lazy people, people with a solid work ethic, and people with a great work ethic. So claiming all are a bunch of entitled lazy immature assholes is a generalization...and not a sound one.

But as you're considering all the flaws of this new generation, keep in mind who raised them.

As an old fart myself I hate to agree with you but I do. In my sales organization we hire lots of young adults out of college who bust their butts for a chance to sell our software. Some work 10-12 hours a day to hit their required number of phone calls so they can generate enough leads for the sales team. We also hire 30+ interns during the summer who work as hard as anyone to jump start their careers.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Well, Kenny Stabler, of the Old Raiders, LOVED HIS PARTYING, and he didn't do too bad as an NFL QB! Do you think he would have been Drafted in todays NFL!?

Maybe. I bet it would have hurt his draft stock. But I think what Cowherd was getting at was more recent history. The QB position today is much different than what it was when Stabler played. The defenses are much more difficult to play against. Just look how complex Gregg Williams defense is. They didn't have that kind of sophistication on D back then. Heck they were just inventing the 3/4 back then. Then add to it how much tougher and complex todays offenses are and I don't even think a guy like Stabler would be able to start in todays NFL. He would be another Johnny Manziel, too interested in partying, lacking elite tools, not willing to put in the work. Remember back then the offseason was the offseason. They didn't work out year round. When the season was over many of them had second jobs to go to and they didn't show up until training camp. I doubt Terry Bradshaw would be a starter in todays NFL. So going back that far is a bit off the mark. I stated earlier that even going back to Marino is not the same.

Think more of the modern era. With the demands of the NFL today, especially at QB if a guy is not dedicated and willing to work, not a guy that the team can respect, and have all the tools then he can't make it.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

As an old fart myself I hate to agree with you but I do. In my sales organization we hire lots of young adults out of college who bust their butts for a chance to sell our software. Some work 10-12 hours a day to hit their required number of phone calls so they can generate enough leads for the sales team. We also hire 30+ interns during the summer who work as hard as anyone to jump start their careers.

Lets look at the job that you are describing; Sales. In sales you have to be a self starter. You have to have a type A personality brimming with confidence that you can sell a product and in most sales jobs that I am aware of a salesperson works off of a commission. So, if a salesperson is sitting around doing facebook on their phone, or surfing the net while they need to be selling to make money, they wont last. They don't sell and hustle they don't make money. That is the type of job a lazy, entitled person would avoid at all costs.

We have a major medical center in our town. It has a national reputation and over the years I have become good friends with many of the doctors, because I maintain their yards and install new landscape projects for them. I even hear them complain. 'So few of these new young doctors want to specialize. They all want to be general practitioners so they can make their T time and take the easy cases and still collect a decent paycheck'. I have experienced it. The ENT department is barren and the doctors remaining there are getting too old to put in the long hours required of specialists. My wife is a nurse and she says about 1/5 new nurses hired actually do their jobs. The rest avoid work. But they can still collect the paycheck. In the world fearful of litigation, PR departments make it difficult to fire these malcontents. (another contributor to the problem).

I worked for the PA Department of Labor and Industry. This is a very real problem that was discussed at nearly every biannual conference by some expert brought in to teach us how to get around it.

 

[DaveFan'51]

Maybe. I bet it would have hurt his draft stock. But I think what Cowherd was getting at was more recent history. The QB position today is much different than what it was when Stabler played. The defenses are much more difficult to play against. Just look how complex Gregg Williams defense is. They didn't have that kind of sophistication on D back then. Heck they were just inventing the 3/4 back then. Then add to it how much tougher and complex todays offenses are and I don't even think a guy like Stabler would be able to start in todays NFL. He would be another Johnny Manziel, too interested in partying, lacking elite tools, not willing to put in the work. Remember back then the offseason was the offseason. They didn't work out year round. When the season was over many of them had second jobs to go to and they didn't show up until training camp. I doubt Terry Bradshaw would be a starter in todays NFL. So going back that far is a bit off the mark. I stated earlier that even going back to Marino is not the same.

Think more of the modern era. With the demands of the NFL today, especially at QB if a guy is not dedicated and willing to work, not a guy that the team can respect, and have all the tools then he can't make it.

I get your point, but we will just have to agree to disagree on your theory of who could play in todays league, and who couldn't!

 

[Boston Ram]

Lets look at the job that you are describing; Sales. In sales you have to be a self starter. You have to have a type A personality brimming with confidence that you can sell a product and in most sales jobs that I am aware of a salesperson works off of a commission. So, if a salesperson is sitting around doing facebook on their phone, or surfing the net while they need to be selling to make money, they wont last. They don't sell and hustle they don't make money. That is the type of job a lazy, entitled person would avoid at all costs.

We have a major medical center in our town. It has a national reputation and over the years I have become good friends with many of the doctors, because I maintain their yards and install new landscape projects for them. I even hear them complain. 'So few of these new young doctors want to specialize. They all want to be general practitioners so they can make their T time and take the easy cases and still collect a decent paycheck'. I have experienced it. The ENT department is barren and the doctors remaining there are getting too old to put in the long hours required of specialists. My wife is a nurse and she says about 1/5 new nurses hired actually do their jobs. The rest avoid work. But they can still collect the paycheck. In the world fearful of litigation, PR departments make it difficult to fire these malcontents. (another contributor to the problem).

I worked for the PA Department of Labor and Industry. This is a very real problem that was discussed at nearly every biannual conference by some expert brought in to teach us how to get around it.

All good points my man. I guess, I was a lazy azz up until I was about 25-26. I look at some of these kids and they are so much more focused than I was at that age lol.

So are these hospitals in PA? That's my territory, I have some single sign on and EPCS solutions to sell them . We are a healthcare provider.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

All good points my man. I guess, I was a lazy azz up until I was about 25-26. I look at some of these kids and they are so much more focused than I was at that age lol.

So are these hospitals in PA? That's my territory, I have some single sign on and EPCS solutions to sell them . We are a healthcare provider.

Geisinger Medical Center is considered a model to fashion other hospitals after because they have their own brand of health insurance- The Geisinger Health Plan. They accept other insurances but locally their plans are favorable to most others offered. Now if you are an employee it is not so great. Co Pays are expensive. The employees used to get the GHP insurance for free. All of those years of my medical problems when I was a youth, over a dozen surgeries, over thirty five admissions, two trips to other hospitsals (Jackson Memorial and Sloan Kettering) and it was all free because my mother was a pharmacy technician with fee health care. But things changed and they brought in a big business doctor from outside the area who was not invested in what GMC always meant. His name was Glenn Steele and he used more of the HMO model that screws the employees instead of covets them. It is sad because GMC was started by a wealthy woman, at the turn of the century, in honor of her diseased husband, as a community hospital and Teaching hospital, in hopes that it would remain more community and groom their own nurses, Xray techs, Doctors, Respiratory therapists, etc. and retain them. Now it is so top heavy and nepotistic that it doesn't even resemble the original plan. There are far too many upper level employees dipping their hands in the pot of gold started by Steele. But, as a patient you still get very good care because of the numbers of specialists that they employ. They do pursue physicians from all over the world when their is a need to fill and compensate them very well. Without GMC and one of their recruited physicians back in 1976, I would most likely have died of Meningitis when I was 9. So as much as I hate what it has become I still do give credit for the good things they continue to do.

 

[Boston Ram]

Geisinger Medical Center is considered a model to fashion other hospitals after because they have their own brand of health insurance- The Geisinger Health Plan. They accept other insurances but locally their plans are favorable to most others offered. Now if you are an employee it is not so great. Co Pays are expensive. The employees used to get the GHP insurance for free. All of those years of my medical problems when I was a youth, over a dozen surgeries, over thirty five admissions, two trips to other hospitsals (Jackson Memorial and Sloan Kettering) and it was all free because my mother was a pharmacy technician with fee health care. But things changed and they brought in a big business doctor from outside the area who was not invested in what GMC always meant. His name was Glenn Steele and he used more of the HMO model that screws the employees instead of covets them. It is sad because GMC was started by a wealthy woman, at the turn of the century, in honor of her diseased husband, as a community hospital and Teaching hospital, in hopes that it would remain more community and groom their own nurses, Xray techs, Doctors, Respiratory therapists, etc. and retain them. Now it is so top heavy and nepotistic that it doesn't even resemble the original plan. There are far too many upper level employees dipping their hands in the pot of gold started by Steele. But, as a patient you still get very good care because of the numbers of specialists that they employ. They do pursue physicians from all over the world when their is a need to fill and compensate them very well. Without GMC and one of their recruited physicians back in 1976, I would most likely have died of Meningitis when I was 9. So as much as I hate what it has become I still do give credit for the good things they continue to do.

Our solutions are in almost every hospital but Geisinger is not one of them. We have been beating down that door for 5 years now lol. Interesting history there, thanks for sharing.

 

[FrantikRam]

I would call it more of a trend and some day when you are hiring people you will know just what I am talking about......and no it isn't just me. I hear it from all walks of life. Nursing, auto mechanics, Carpentry, electricians etc,...I have read theories about it in Psychology magazines.

Maybe it's because my generation didn't have all the distractions that people do today! But for some reason many people think it is a right to use their phones at work. They claim it is for emergencies but that is an excuse. Kids grow up tech saavy and they need to keep up with technology but it is too much of a distraction. Workplaces have to ban cell phones except on breaks, Corporations track the websites being followed on computers and fire people for content and bandwidth violations. None of that would be necessary if people would just work. Then you get the cloud that think they don't need to earn a raise, they should just be making the highest pay grade because they are doing the same job. I could go on but I won't.

I'm 29 years old and run a production department for a printing company. I DO hire people. I'm assuming that as I am 29 years old, I am apart of the "They" you are referring to.

Every leader gets the team he deserves. My favorite quote. If you are in charge of people and "they" are using their phones too much, that's your fault, not theirs.

Workplaces that have to ban cell phones probably have some poor leadership in place.

Unions are dying out now, but "your" generation was chalked full of them; you know what's ironic about what you said? Some unions negotiate an automatic or minimum pay increase for every associate in that department or company - I would argue it's "your" generation that feels entitled. In my experience, it's been the older crowd that feel showing up for work meant they deserved a raise. But then, those people don't work for me any longer because that's an unacceptable attitude.

There are probably theories about everything in Psychology magazines....but there are all different types and one thing that is consistent is: roughly 80% of the workforce is essentially doing just enough not to get fired (i.e. not go getters); and that spans all ages.

 

[Memento]

Honestly, I feel that it's every generation. Every generation has had problems with the ones that came before. Every generation has had problems with the ones that came after. Honestly, when I look at a lot of the kids today, I feel sickened at how callous and selfish they can be - and this is coming from someone who was born in 1991. But there are plenty of older people who are grade-A assholes as well.

I look at the individuals, not the whole.

 

[Mojo Ram]

For Gen X'rs like myself...and because this movie is the shit

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I'm 29 years old and run a production department for a printing company. I DO hire people. I'm assuming that as I am 29 years old, I am apart of the "They" you are referring to.

Every leader gets the team he deserves. My favorite quote. If you are in charge of people and "they" are using their phones too much, that's your fault, not theirs.

Workplaces that have to ban cell phones probably have some poor leadership in place.

Unions are dying out now, but "your" generation was chalked full of them; you know what's ironic about what you said? Some unions negotiate an automatic or minimum pay increase for every associate in that department or company - I would argue it's "your" generation that feels entitled. In my experience, it's been the older crowd that feel showing up for work meant they deserved a raise. But then, those people don't work for me any longer because that's an unacceptable attitude.

There are probably theories about everything in Psychology magazines....but there are all different types and one thing that is consistent is: roughly 80% of the workforce is essentially doing just enough not to get fired (i.e. not go getters); and that spans all ages.

I agree with you about the union people. I have never been a union advocate because it breeds the same laziness that I complain about. The thing is Unions don't and never did dominate the workforce around my area. There are two main union forces here. And one has always stayed in check, the other was recently reorganized.

Your reply makes it sound as though everyone from my generation was unionized. That is not the case. I figured some people would take personal offense to my comments, but that is not my fault if you feel the need to defend your generation. Just know that I am not targetting you personally. If you own a business then I am sure you know what hard work is all about. In the Dept of Labor and industry we were always looked to help solve labor issues and the entitled employees that don't work was always the biggest problem and my bosses that had worked in the Dept for 30+ years have always referred to it as a new problem or a worsening one.

I know from my personal experience that I preferred to higher people that were older. They knew how to earn their money. Hiring and firing is not productive. So I favored a more mature responsible person.

 

[jrry32]

As an old fart myself I hate to agree with you but I do. In my sales organization we hire lots of young adults out of college who bust their butts for a chance to sell our software. Some work 10-12 hours a day to hit their required number of phone calls so they can generate enough leads for the sales team. We also hire 30+ interns during the summer who work as hard as anyone to jump start their careers.

Absolutely. I know plenty of people with outstanding work ethics and plenty of people with shitty work ethics. It has nothing to do with age. A lot of it has to do with them as a person and, imo, the parents that raised them.

My parents really drilled in how important it is to work hard. And my dad was a role model in that regard as man who worked extremely hard in his field.

So it's no surprise that me, my brother, and my sister all have outstanding work ethics.

I worked an unpaid internship last summer where I worked 60-80 hours a week. I worked a paid internship(at near the minimum wage) in the past where I worked over 100 hours a week for 7-8 weeks in a row.

Right now, I work my ass off to stay on top of my work every day for law school. I have a lot of classmates that do the same thing. I'd say 75% of them work anywhere from hard to EXTREMELY hard to stay on top of everything. The other 25% just tend to coast.

So it's far from a general rule. Like any generation, you're going to find lazy people and you're going to find driven, hard working people. A lot of that will also depend on the benefits to being hard working. At a job with no real prospects for advancement where someone isn't making much money(like fast food), it's no surprise that they would not be motivated to work hard. Whereas in a job where they benefit from hard work such as a job that pays out bonuses or pays on commission or a career in an area with a lot of advancement, I think you'll find people are a lot more motivated to succeed.

 

[Boston Ram]

Absolutely. I know plenty of people with outstanding work ethics and plenty of people with crappy work ethics. It has nothing to do with age. A lot of it has to do with them as a person and, imo, the parents that raised them.

My parents really drilled in how important it is to work hard. And my dad was a role model in that regard as man who worked extremely hard in his field.

So it's no surprise that me, my brother, and my sister all have outstanding work ethics.

I worked an unpaid internship last summer where I worked 60-80 hours a week. I worked a paid internship(at near the minimum wage) in the past where I worked over 100 hours a week for 7-8 weeks in a row.

Right now, I work my ass off to stay on top of my work every day for law school. I have a lot of classmates that do the same thing. I'd say 75% of them work anywhere from hard to EXTREMELY hard to stay on top of everything. The other 25% just tend to coast.

So it's far from a general rule. Like any generation, you're going to find lazy people and you're going to find driven, hard working people. A lot of that will also depend on the benefits to being hard working. At a job with no real prospects for advancement where someone isn't making much money(like fast food), it's no surprise that they would not be motivated to work hard. Whereas in a job where they benefit from hard work such as a job that pays out bonuses or pays on commission or a career in an area with a lot of advancement, I think you'll find people are a lot more motivated to succeed.

Well said you little wooper snapper lol.