OT Orlando Brown taking a beating over combine results

[Memento]

He's weak? Because he didn't do well on the bench press at the Combine?

Would you have called Harvey Dahl weak? Would you call Calais Campbell weak? Would you have called Jared Allen weak? Is Rob Havenstein weak? Just for comparison sake:
Harvey Dahl - 17
Rob Havenstein - 16
Demetress Bell - 9
Cody Whitehair - 16
Ben Hamilton - 17
Jared Allen - 14
Calais Campbell - 16

All of these guys became successful NFL players. Demetress Bell was a quality LT before injuries ruined his career. Let's not overreact. Orlando Brown was absolutely immovable on the field when guys tried to bullrush him. He's as far from weak as you can get. The bench press doesn't measure football strength. You don't play LT from your back, and DLs don't lay on top of you and wait for you to lift them up.

Let's not forget our own Michael Brockers only put up nineteen reps on the bench press. It's hard for a guy with long arms to put up good numbers on the bench press.

But the other stats do concern me a great deal. The Combine is a job interview. Brown didn't prepare for it. He's not going to be a choice of mine until the fourth round.

 

[jrry32]

Let's not forget our own Michael Brockers only put up nineteen reps on the bench press. It's hard for a guy with long arms to put up good numbers on the bench press.

But the other stats do concern me a great deal. The Combine is a job interview. Brown didn't prepare for it. He's not going to be a choice of mine until the fourth round.

Out of curiosity, what would your response be if Brown said, "No, I didn't prepare for the Combine because I've spent all my time since the season ended working on my technique, working on learning NFL blocking schemes, and increasing my knowledge of the game"?

I'm not saying that's what he's been doing, but would anyone say, "Well, you should have been learning how to do all of these meaningless drills rather than preparing for the NFL"?

 

[Memento]

Out of curiosity, what would your response be if Brown said, "No, I didn't prepare for the Combine because I've spent all my time since the season ended working on my technique, working on learning NFL blocking schemes, and increasing my knowledge of the game"?

I'm not saying that's what he's been doing, but would anyone say, "Well, you should have been learning how to do all of these meaningless drills rather than preparing for the NFL"?

If Brown said that, be okay with it. It's not what he did, though. The offensive line coaches called him out for loafing in the offensive line drills. Not the bench press or forty. The actual drills. That concerns me a bit.

 

[jrry32]

"When are you going to watch Orlando Brown run 40 yards down the field?" Mayfield said. "Never. Look at his film. He gave up zero sacks last year."

 

[Debacled]

Or he's a football player, and you're reading too much into the Combine. Havenstein had a horrible Combine too. I don't doubt his commitment to football. Is Brown's Combine disappointing? Sure. However, without character reports, we're in the dark. NFL teams have those. They know what type of person he is. They know what his work habits are. We're left to make assumptions. I don't like jumping to conclusions unless there's something more there.

Prior to the Combine, had you heard anything about Brown's character or work habits that gave you pause? I hadn't. If there were a bunch of red flags before the Combine, I'd be concerned. Without those, I'm curious, but I'm not shutting the book on the kid. I remember Vontaze Burfict looking absolutely dreadful at the Combine, but that kid can play football. And he actually had character red flags coming into the event.

You show up to the most important interview of your life completely unprepared....it speaks volumes about the guy. The kid can play....at the college level. Doesn't say anything about how he will do at the pro level. We have seen plenty of stand out tackles from college fall flat in the pros.

The 40 was worse than bad. His 10 yard split was also 2.00 seconds (the worst recorded in combine history). The bench press was terrible at 14 reps (with 35 inch arms, but 14 is still tied for worst showing at the combine...again ever). His drills were were sluggish and poor at best as was his effort. The last thing you want is a tackle with slow feet.

 

[jrry32]

You show up to the most important interview of your life completely unprepared....it speaks volumes about the guy.

I guess that speaks volumes about Rob Havenstein, Calais Campbell, Vontaze Burfict, and Michael Brockers too. All tested quite poorly at the Combine. All are great football players.

I think people don't really take into account Brown's size. Yes, his Combine performance was terrible, but it's a little less terrible when you consider his size. His three cone drill time is actually quite good for his size. His other marks are all bad. But a little less bad when you take into account how big he is. Max Starks and Phil Loadholt, two guys he's often compared to who had successful careers, both also performed poorly at the Combine. Bryant McKinnie, another whom he's compared to who had a successful career, smartly chose not to workout at the Combine.

 

[jap]

Until the NFL converts the Combine drills into purely football-specific drills rather than mostly track & field drills, you are going to have many seemingly crazy results that do not add up to a player's true skill levels.

 

[whitedk57]

I’ll never understand why Linemen run the 40 yard dash. It’s pointless.

That speed is needed to chase down defensive interceptions. Oh wait! Nevermind...

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Or he's a football player, and you're reading too much into the Combine. Havenstein had a horrible Combine too. I don't doubt his commitment to football. Is Brown's Combine disappointing? Sure. However, without character reports, we're in the dark. NFL teams have those. They know what type of person he is. They know what his work habits are. We're left to make assumptions. I don't like jumping to conclusions unless there's something more there.

Prior to the Combine, had you heard anything about Brown's character or work habits that gave you pause? I hadn't. If there were a bunch of red flags before the Combine, I'd be concerned. Without those, I'm curious, but I'm not shutting the book on the kid. I remember Vontaze Burfict looking absolutely dreadful at the Combine, but that kid can play football. And he actually had character red flags coming into the event.

It’s all about managing risk in cases like this. Brown is no longer the slam dunk prospect that he was going into the combine. He created a lot of doubt. How high of a pick will a team risk on draft day with the questions Brown created? Personally I would not take the risk if I was Snead. The Rams have too many holes to fill.

For a team that does not have many holes, maybe a second round pick is reasonable.

The pros will be able to collect more info than we can, so maybe I am wrong. But from where I sit no thanks.


btw I would have picked Loadholt. I really hoped the Rams would take him.

 

[Giles27]

All I know about Brown is that guys had a very tough time getting around him. Film doesn't lie I hope he slides so the rams can get him so big whit can show him the way to being a pros pro.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

All I know about Brown is that guys had a very tough time getting around him. Film doesn't lie I hope he slides so the rams can get him so big whit can show him the way to being a pros pro.

You could say the same for Alex Barron.

 

[dieterbrock]

It's a red flag for sure. I wouldn't take him in top 10 now if I was drafting there. Not sure how far he'll drop though. He did a lot to earn top 10 cred in the first place

 

[Akrasian]

All I know about Brown is that guys had a very tough time getting around him. Film doesn't lie I hope he slides so the rams can get him so big whit can show him the way to being a pros pro.

College players had trouble getting around him. The DEs he'll face in the pros will be the elite DEs from college - except they will be stronger with better technique, thanks to Pro strength training and coaching. In order to still be effective he has to be willing to increase his strength and improve his technique. The combine performance does not instill confidence that he will consistently put in the work necessary to be worth a first round pick. Maybe he will - but it is a huge question mark now.

 

[Giles27]

College players had trouble getting around him. The DEs he'll face in the pros will be the elite DEs from college - except they will be stronger with better technique, thanks to Pro strength training and coaching. In order to still be effective he has to be willing to increase his strength and improve his technique. The combine performance does not instill confidence that he will consistently put in the work necessary to be worth a first round pick. Maybe he will - but it is a huge question mark now.

You can say that with every player coming out in the draft every year.
How about this just youtube some of his games and watch him closely. His film tells you everything you need to know about his on the field play.

 

[Akrasian]

You can say that with every player coming out in the draft every year.
How about this just youtube some of his games and watch him closely. His film tells you everything you need to know about his on the field play.

Most players don't have historically bad combine performances, coupled with being yelled at by position coaches at the combine for being lazy during position drills. Brown is an extreme outlier, making the risk greater than for almost any other player.

It's a deep draft. There are going to be many players available at positions of need for the Rams who have the ability to be impact players, and who don't have such serious questions about their work ethic. Yes, it's possible that Brown ends up being willing to work hard enough to succeed - but how can you not have doubts given his horrific combine performance?

 

[Giles27]

Most players don't have historically bad combine performances, coupled with being yelled at by position coaches at the combine for being lazy during position drills. Brown is an extreme outlier, making the risk greater than for almost any other player.

It's a deep draft. There are going to be many players available at positions of need for the Rams who have the ability to be impact players, and who don't have such serious questions about their work ethic. Yes, it's possible that Brown ends up being willing to work hard enough to succeed - but how can you not have doubts given his horrific combine performance?

Because I've seen players have historically great combines and do horrible on the field. Plus before the combine nobody was calling Brown lazy. A truly lazy player you hear something about it way before they go pro. Look I'm not saying he doesn't have concerns or his combine was good at all. I'm just saying on tape I see a good football player.

 

[Debacled]

I guess that speaks volumes about Rob Havenstein, Calais Campbell, Vontaze Burfict, and Michael Brockers too. All tested quite poorly at the Combine. All are great football players.

I think people don't really take into account Brown's size. Yes, his Combine performance was terrible, but it's a little less terrible when you consider his size. His three cone drill time is actually quite good for his size. His other marks are all bad. But a little less bad when you take into account how big he is. Max Starks and Phil Loadholt, two guys he's often compared to who had successful careers, both also performed poorly at the Combine. Bryant McKinnie, another whom he's compared to who had a successful career, smartly chose not to workout at the Combine.

You are missing the point. There is testing poorly and then there is setting a new ground floor. Brown is setting the new basement for OTs.

His numbers were piss poor and the work ethic was also missing. None of the other guys you listed walked away from the combine getting chewed liked he did for a lack of giving a ****.

The combine is there to flesh out issues, not have guys fly up for being a great athlete. Brown demonstrated a number of issues. I didn't think he was a first round talent before this showing and I'd drop him much lower after this mess.

 

[nighttrain]

You are missing the point. There is testing poorly and then there is setting a new ground floor. Brown is setting the new basement for OTs.

His numbers were tick poor and the work ethic was also missing. None of the other guys you listed walked away from the combine getting chewed liked he did for a lack of giving a ****.

The combine is there to flesh out issues, not have guys fly up for being a great athlete. Brown demonstrated a number of issues. I didn't think he was a first round talent before this showing and I'd drop him much lower after this mess.

hope he falls to us in the 4th round:mrburnsevil:
train

 

[Akrasian]

Because I've seen players have historically great combines and do horrible on the field. Plus before the combine nobody was calling Brown lazy. A truly lazy player you hear something about it way before they go pro. Look I'm not saying he doesn't have concerns or his combine was good at all. I'm just saying on tape I see a good football player.

Nobody here has said that a player should be drafted high - or at all - for having a great combine. What is being said is that at what is in effect a job interview, Brown did exceptionally poorly, AND showed an unwillingness to listen to people who would be his supervisors. That is a huge red flag.

His tape showed a huge mountain of man, with not bad feet for his size, and mediocre technique that he could get by with thanks to his huge size. But the level of competition he'll be facing will be much tougher, and there are very legitimate questions about whether he'll put forth the effort consistently to play up to that level, including the intense preparation for months that is needed in the weight room, and the intense work on technique that everybody else does.

Maybe he will put forth the effort - but this weekend did not show that - just the opposite. If he falls far enough, he could be worth a look. But unless there is a lot of evidence that this was an exception, I would not want the Rams to go with him high, and probably not even with a middle round pick.

 

[jrry32]

You are missing the point. There is testing poorly and then there is setting a new ground floor. Brown is setting the new basement for OTs.

I understand the point. I don't value the Combine to the same extent you do. Brown isn't the first guy to bomb at the Combine, and he won't be the last. If you hated his film, that's one thing, but the guy didn't suddenly forget how to play football. So if you thought he was a top 40 pick before the Combine, it's hard for me to understand the opinion that he's suddenly now a late round pick or undraftable or a Day 3 pick. Some people are implying that he's lazy, but we never heard anything indicating that before the Combine (at least, I didn't). I'm not going to draw such sweeping conclusions from a bad performance.