Opinion: Players Aren't Cyborgs

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bubbaramfan

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Another article at msn.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...heir-broken-bodies/ar-AABeaQv?ocid=spartandhp


Been that way since the inception of the NFL. Players know the risk but play anyway, for whatever reason. Love of the game, money, whatever, but they CHOOSE to do it.

No mention of the journeymen players that get racked up. Only the star players matter?

Hard for me to feel sorry for any of them as they sit by the pool of their multi-million $$ home sipping hundred year old scotch.
 
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tklongball

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Man, I couldn't even finish the article. Pure stupidity. These guys realize that they are putting their bodies on the line for the chance to make way more money then they could any other way. I don't understand people feeling bad for these guys. And the guys that do it, get the fame and fortune, then whine later, really aggravate me.
 

1maGoh

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Another article at msn.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...heir-broken-bodies/ar-AABeaQv?ocid=spartandhp


Been that way since the inception of the NFL. Players know the risk but play anyway, for whatever reason. Love of the game, money, whatever, but they CHOOSE to do it.

No mention of the journeymen players that get racked up. Only the star players matter?

Hard for me to feel sorry for any of them as they sit by the pool of their multi-million $$ home sipping hundred year old scotch.
Players not being cyborgs is actually a fact, not an opinion.
 

LesBaker

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He lost me upfront with this over the top bullshit.

Doug Baldwin and Kam Chancellor were likely nudged into early retirement, released with “injury designations,” which is a nice way of saying that for the violent game of football, their bodies are broken beyond repair.

Nooooooo, they just aren't physically capable of playing NFL football anymore. That's different than broken beyond repair.
 

OntarioRam

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The dangers of football have been well known for some time now. In recent years, the brain trauma - CTE etc. - that football can potentially inflict on its participants has received considerable attention, in particular. My heart goes out to all players whose bodies are broken from playing the game they loved. I wish that on no one. But such a result is part of the risk of playing professional football. If you are unwilling to accept that risk, don't play. And indeed, many people do not play (and are held out from playing by their parents when they are young), for exactly that reason. There is really no other way around it.
 

Akrasian

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I want to thank this thread. I hadn't seen the first Terminator movie in years - this inspired me to rewatch it, so I could understand exactly what players aren't. I'm glad that they aren't nearly unstoppable killing machines.
 

XXXIVwin

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Amazing how this brave writer will go out on a limb.

“Players are people too”

“Players aren’t cyborgs”

“Smith must be dealing with a serious issue”

So brave

(uh, blue font)
 

Mackeyser

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Yes, players NOW fully understand the risks or should.

But anyone who thinks that all players make out like bandits just doesn’t know the economics of football.

Most guys make less than $2M in their careers pre-tax. Factor in taxes and agents alone and you’re looking at $1.2M.

Even if a player does leave the game with a mill in the bank, a pretty decent return on that would be 6%, which means a pre-tax income of $60k. That’s enough to live modestly with a few kids not near a major metro area like LA, Seattle, SF, Houston, Dallas, Chicago, New York, Boston or Miami.

More likely it’s a nice supplement to a regular job.

My point is that most players at best end up with a decent nest egg, but the Life of Riley? Hardly.

I think some are confusing JAG NFL players for utility infielders in MLB...
 

1maGoh

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Yes, players NOW fully understand the risks or should.

But anyone who thinks that all players make out like bandits just doesn’t know the economics of football.

Most guys make less than $2M in their careers pre-tax. Factor in taxes and agents alone and you’re looking at $1.2M.

Even if a player does leave the game with a mill in the bank, a pretty decent return on that would be 6%, which means a pre-tax income of $60k. That’s enough to live modestly with a few kids not near a major metro area like LA, Seattle, SF, Houston, Dallas, Chicago, New York, Boston or Miami.

More likely it’s a nice supplement to a regular job.

My point is that most players at best end up with a decent nest egg, but the Life of Riley? Hardly.

I think some are confusing JAG NFL players for utility infielders in MLB...
Or, depending on where they choose to live, they could take that $1 million and but a decent house outright, buy a car or two outright, and save enough money to literally never have to worry about going out of work again (for extended periods, but not forever) while still being able to pay for their children's college tuition outright. Yes, this would require them to continue to work like normal Americans (the horror!), but they would never have to worry about money for the rest of their lives. In addition, they would be able to get by on significantly less because they wouldn't need to pay for housing or cars (at least for 5-10 years depending on what they but and how they treat it). If average housing (rent or mortgage) in the nation was only $1000 (the military says it's roughly $1900 on average, but let's ignore them) and car payments are about $200 they'd be saving $14k+ a year. And they'd still have $500k ish, probably more, in the bank to save or spend lavishly as they continue to work. They wouldn't be able to live off of it forever, but let's not pretend like they're only getting a small head start on retirement but don't have enough to spend. $1 million is a huge head start and many Americans would commit unspeakable atrocities to get one tenth of that.
 

Elmgrovegnome

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There are risks with many physical jobs. My brother is a carpenter. Hes on his knees, bent over, carrying sheets of 3/3" plyboard and beams. He'll be 48 this year. Every six months he gets the nerves in his back burned to reduce the pain of an inoperable injury. Both of his knees are shot as well.

Of course there are more dangerous jobs, than carpentry and NFL football player. I don't see much difference except you can make a lot more money in the NFL.
 

Mackeyser

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Or, depending on where they choose to live, they could take that $1 million and but a decent house outright, buy a car or two outright, and save enough money to literally never have to worry about going out of work again (for extended periods, but not forever) while still being able to pay for their children's college tuition outright. Yes, this would require them to continue to work like normal Americans (the horror!), but they would never have to worry about money for the rest of their lives. In addition, they would be able to get by on significantly less because they wouldn't need to pay for housing or cars (at least for 5-10 years depending on what they but and how they treat it). If average housing (rent or mortgage) in the nation was only $1000 (the military says it's roughly $1900 on average, but let's ignore them) and car payments are about $200 they'd be saving $14k+ a year. And they'd still have $500k ish, probably more, in the bank to save or spend lavishly as they continue to work. They wouldn't be able to live off of it forever, but let's not pretend like they're only getting a small head start on retirement but don't have enough to spend. $1 million is a huge head start and many Americans would commit unspeakable atrocities to get one tenth of that.

Well, I really don't want to get into a budget debate...so I won't.

I dunno that it works to ignore averages and then over assume what players would be able to do with that over assumption.

Even with a decent paid for house, there are things like property tax and insurance that if one were to buy a $500k house in a nice neighborhood could equal a modest rent.

Also, many football players aren't small people, so the idea of them paying ONLY $200/mo even for a low mileage lease is crazy. You aren't going to fit an OL in a Honda Civic lease...for ONLY $189/mo!

Also, many of these young men don't have a healthy relationship with money. Many come from little or nothing and don't understand how it all works. It's why the Rams have for years now delayed signing players until AFTER the financial seminars and the "tell your family NO" speech. That's another discussion, but it does play into the categorization that players live these outsized lives. They don't.

Yes, the head start towards retirement is good. Moreover, I wasn't making an argument of the risk/reward ratio.

Rather, the point is that unless someone is miserly while playing, the average player is NOT living the life of Riley. After their 2-3 years of football, they're back to trying to find work as a regular person. Moreover, most players have been tunnel-visioned on football since maybe Middle School, so it's the rare player who pulls a John Urschel who's getting his PhD in Math at MIT... https://www.businessinsider.com/offensive-lineman-john-urschel-starting-phd-at-mit-2016-1/ or even a Chris Collinsworth who got his law degree after playing or Byron "Whizzer" White who became a Supreme Court Justice.

When one spends all of their available time trying to and succeeding at being good at one thing, life after that thing... be it sports or the military, for example, can seem like starting over in a way most others can't comprehend.

Yes, they get paid a lot in laymen's terms to play a game. Got it. Agree.

But to describe rooks and JAGs who are most of the NFL as living like they all got contracts like Aaron Rodgers just isn't accurate.

That's the full extent of what I was saying.

Is it theoretically possible to parlay a rookie contract into an easy living? Of course. Don't have a ton of kids, live in a modest house in the burbs or rural community near a hub city like Nashville, stick all your money in things like triple tax free munis to increase overall yield while having stability, only buy used vehicles with super high reliability ratings...etc... Yeah, it CAN happen.

My point was that it doesn't in most cases... for reasons that are really other discussions. The point is that the characterization is misplaced.

That was it.

Five days until the GoT finale...
 

Pancake

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What about the free opportunity for a degree almost all of these players get. Is that being factored into their ability to earn money after football?
 

RamnSD

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I don't think an expectation of 6% is reasonable. There are no bank accounts or bonds worth having that yield that much. Stocks are a total crap shoot. The S&P500 has had a couple of good years, but getting that type of return would be pretty luck considering that most actively managed mutual funds fail to keep pace. Further from 12/31/1999 to 12/31/2009 the S&P500 had an annualized return of -0.95% (Credit: Forbes).

The money that you're talking about would have been first or second round money. Look at Morgan Fox. Career earnings $1.123M after 3 years.

Even if a player does leave the game with a mill in the bank, a pretty decent return on that would be 6%.
 

Akrasian

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The money that you're talking about would have been first or second round money. Look at Morgan Fox. Career earnings $1.123M after 3 years.

And of course, there are agent fees, and taxes, and living expenses. Even if they live cheaply, they have to travel to camp, many have a place to live elsewhere, and getting a decent (not fancy) place to live with an out clause in case they are cut or traded is generally not cheap in major urban centers like Los Angeles. They're big guys - most end up getting SUVs to drive so they can fit in them comfortably. Now, many get expensive SUVs even if they shouldn't spend their money that way, although for the most part not THAT fancy (I used to drive by the Cardinals facility in Tempe 2-4 times a day, so I would see their cars regularly). The point is that it's not a cheap lifestyle, even if they attempt some amount of frugality. And for most this is the first time they've had money - and yes, when you get $100s of thousands in pay, and are single - it's normal to spend a bit - eating out, going to clubs, etc on occasion at the very least. So while some league minimum guys save their initial bonuses and salaries - it's not THAT much money even if they are frugal, not even near as much as their raw salaries look like. And expenses are relatively large. So yes, lower level guys don't really save that much, even if they are making good faith efforts.
 

Jorgeh0605

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I don't even understand the point of this article. What is the opinion? That football players get hurt? Some everyday Sherlock he must be. The article didn't argue any actual point, didn't offer any solutions. Really?

Also all these calculations regarding a players salary creating easy living don't take into account the fact that most of these players still have the ability to earn a fairly good wage doing numerous other things once their playing days are over, even if its just a 3 year career. It opens doors.
 
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Dieter the Brock

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Vet minimum is enough to keep guys well to do their entire lives.

Yes 100%

This talk about 1 million not being enough to sustain you for life if a fucking joke

I had only $20 and I turned that into security for my wife and kids and one day my grandkids. So the idea that you can’t turn 1 million into a lifetime of security for you and your family is absurd.
 

Akrasian

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Yes 100%

This talk about 1 million not being enough to sustain you for life if a freaking joke

I had only $20 and I turned that into security for my wife and kids and one day my grandkids. So the idea that you can’t turn 1 million into a lifetime of security for you and your family is absurd.

Congratulations.

Can they turn the money (generally less than $1 million, and accompanied by physical damage) into a lifetime of security? Yes, and many do.

Is it guaranteed? Far from it. They have spent years focusing on football. Some actually learn useful stuff in college. Others - like many non-football players - don't. All are pursued at some level by scammers and hangers on.

Even the reasonably bright ones start out their post college careers several years behind their classmates - and again, statistically they end up needing more time off because their bodies often ache after NFL retirement. This makes it tougher to be a success post NFL, though in many cases they can get their foot in the door partially because of their fame - but that only lasts if they can be successful.

Investing the money into their own business that they know how to run is one way to make it into a lifetime income. But most know football - that's it, really. If they are outgoing and good talkers, many go into sales, using their modest fame to get their feet in the door. Not all of them are good talkers, or even have modest fame.

Now, if they are good enough to last a few years with stability (not fighting for a job every offseason) it makes it much easier to get a little bit of savings, and to get connections for after they retire. Then - IF they are wise enough to save their money, and actually have some non-football skills, AND aren't too beat up after retiring - they can live a nice enough life. But that requires a lot to go right.

There are reasons that so many ex NFLers end up broke.