On paper, this looks like an elite type D, doesn't it?

[Ewe83]

It's been mind boggling to me, this D should be an absolute force, I don't know what they need to get it together but hopefully they do it soon. I know it's late in the season but I'm still hopeful once Talib is back things will look better

 

[PhillyRam]

Exactly This!

Yeah, hard argue with Donald's production, but they still do not look like a 3/4 team. Now maybe that is just the way the league is now in that you can't have what we recognize as prototypical 3/4 inside backers that stuff the run. Now maybe they have to be more of a dime defense on every play. In a perfect world you find inside backers that can cover and stuff the run... like a young Bobby Wagner

So Donald will flourish in any scheme, but nice to get backers and a NT that are better suited for stopping the run.

 

[Corbin]

I'm surprised by people saying things like "nobodies" or "average players" - this defense is stacked.

AD/Suh/Brockers - I think we all agree on these guys

Ebukam/Longacre/Fowler - Longacre has been bad - I think we all agree on that. Ebukam has had good moments and bad - what you'd expect from a first year starter. I think we mostly agree on these guys.

Barron - was a stud last year. In the offseason when people said he'd be a cap casualty I thought they were crazy - he was much better than Ogletree IMO. Coaches agreed and last year he was an above average starter IMO - this year he's been disappointing. Littleton has been better and has been a pleasant surprise.

Secondary - this is where we will probably mostly disagree. Joyner has been bad - but John Johnson grades out as one of the better safeties this year. NRC is still one of the best NCBs.


So when you look at this defense, IMO you can point to three guys - Barron/Joyner/Peters (along with the Talib injury), and show how this defense has been bad. They just haven't played up to how they played LAST season. So I agree with the "on paper" comment.

However - the front 7 has not been good against the run. Whatever Phillips thought Suh would bring to the run game, I haven't seen it yet.

Damned good post man! Those are our three weaknesses exposing the rest of our D.

Hopefully we get out this KC game with no injuries and with Talib back covering the top #1 WR that will help Joyners over under cover play. With Barron IDK what to say. Hes playing lile he is this year undersized and hes not even mobile enough to get around those blocks to make the tackle with him being undersized. Got a huge problem here come the playoffs.

 

[Rambitious1]

Gonna have to disagree there bud. Peters, Ebukam, Fowler, Suh, Shields, Talib, Kiser, Lawler, etc are all guys that Wade has brought in. Last year i could make a case for that, but Wade has added quite a bit of talent that should equate to a much better D.

I disagree.

Peters and Ebukam 3-4 guys, Fowler is brand new to the team, Suh is a 4-3 guy IMHO, Shields sees the field once in a while (not sure what he is any more) Talib is injured, Lawler and Kiser are rookies. Everyone else are 4-3 guys. Square pegs for round holes.

 

[majrleaged]

Our LBs are not 4-3. D-line seems inter changeable to me. To me the lack of run stopping g is 2 things. Want to and I think Wade is putting them in bad calls quit a bit. The D has to start looking run first. While the front 7 does that, the DBs need to play there man.

 

[majrleaged]

I also wouldn't really call our defense a standard 3-4. We generate the pass rush with the same guys all the time. One of the traits of a 3-4 is you never know which of the front 7 are coming and which are dropping back. Another trait of the 3-4 is, Usually the 3-4 is hard to run against. None of that is happening with what ever this D is.

 

[I like Rams]

I disagree.

Peters and Ebukam 3-4 guys, Fowler is brand new to the team, Suh is a 4-3 guy IMHO, Shields sees the field once in a while (not sure what he is any more) Talib is injured, Lawler and Kiser are rookies. Everyone else are 4-3 guys. Square pegs for round holes.

I get what you're saying, i was just trying to point out that Wade has put a lot of his own players into the D this past off-season, where as last season we literally had a 4-3 playing a (not traditional) 3-4. Considering the talent we've added and added more 3-4 players, I dont think we can entirely blame it on formation differences.

 

[yrba1]

I also wouldn't really call our defense a standard 3-4. We generate the pass rush with the same guys all the time. One of the traits of a 3-4 is you never know which of the front 7 are coming and which are dropping back. Another trait of the 3-4 is, Usually the 3-4 is hard to run against. None of that is happening with what ever this D is.

With a lot of teams going in 13 personnel over 12 on offense, a lot more defenses are trying to counter that with 4-2-5 or 3-3-5 nickel packages. I believe our run defense woes comes from our DBs' issues on open field tackling. Gotta wrap up and stop giving opposing runners behind the LOS over 4 ypc

 

[Rams43]

I'm surprised by people saying things like "nobodies" or "average players" - this defense is stacked.

AD/Suh/Brockers - I think we all agree on these guys

Ebukam/Longacre/Fowler - Longacre has been bad - I think we all agree on that. Ebukam has had good moments and bad - what you'd expect from a first year starter. I think we mostly agree on these guys.

Barron - was a stud last year. In the offseason when people said he'd be a cap casualty I thought they were crazy - he was much better than Ogletree IMO. Coaches agreed and last year he was an above average starter IMO - this year he's been disappointing. Littleton has been better and has been a pleasant surprise.

Secondary - this is where we will probably mostly disagree. Joyner has been bad - but John Johnson grades out as one of the better safeties this year. NRC is still one of the best NCBs.


So when you look at this defense, IMO you can point to three guys - Barron/Joyner/Peters (along with the Talib injury), and show how this defense has been bad. They just haven't played up to how they played LAST season. So I agree with the "on paper" comment.

However - the front 7 has not been good against the run. Whatever Phillips thought Suh would bring to the run game, I haven't seen it yet.

I wish it was just those 3 guys you mentioned, Frantik.

But in addition to Barron/Joyner/Peters we have too many others with disappointing results, especially lately.

Brockers
Suh (yes, Suh)
Longacre (this one can’t be overstated)
Ebu

That’s 2/3rds of DL and 3/4ths of LB’s!

OR...

You could say that 7 of the 11 D starters have not met expectations.

They’re putting too much pressure on the O, man.

There’s gonna be major changes on this D come ‘19.

 

[Rainram]

Baldy's breakdown...

On that first video...the last play...how about those hands to the face of AD...and that shit was 100% on purpose. That was their last offensive play of the game. Maybe that’s why AD wanted a word with him after the game. Cheap Shot taking Seahawks.

As for the run defense in that game...

First...I agreee we have issues!

Second...their entire game plan was to do nothing but run on us. I mean they had 6 linemen and a FB in there at times. I’m gonna go back and watch some things. But we don’t have the beef or depth to match that for 60 minutes. Not many teams do. But there are scheme issues, assignments being missed, bad technique, etc.

 

[Ramhusker]

I think everybody will be shocked at how this D does against the Chiefs this week. Just a "homer" feeling I've got.

 

[Rainram]

Also wanted to add that the 3-4/4-3 debate could have its own thread for those that want to discuss the nuances.

But it’s not as simple/narrow as some are making it out to be.

My .02 cents...our personnel are capable. Talib’s injury was bigger than most realize...it changed our defense. Other than that, some guys are severely underperforming...I called Joyner before the season started, but the LBers have been hurting, as has our DL rotation...but it’s not a result of 4-3/3-4 stuff.

 

[BonifayRam]

Damned good post man! Those are our three weaknesses exposing the rest of our D.

Hopefully we get out this KC game with no injuries and with Talib back covering the top #1 WR that will help Joyners over under cover play. With Barron IDK what to say. Hes playing lile he is this year undersized and hes not even mobile enough to get around those blocks to make the tackle with him being undersized. Got a huge problem here come the playoffs.

Barron is done!

 

[Rainram]

On that first video...the last play...how about those hands to the face of AD...and that crap was 100% on purpose. That was their last offensive play of the game. Maybe that’s why AD wanted a word with him after the game. Cheap Shot taking Seahawks.

The more I watch that, the more it pisses me off. Damn near broke his neck.

You guys should watch that. Dirty.

 

[sjm1582002]

I remember reading in the "what the big mouthed Seattle fans are saying" thread a comment about our defense.

"It's a one man show (AD) and Suh when he wants to give max effort."

Pretty good summary.

 

[MrRiceGuyRJ]

Wade needs to teach or LB to stop over pursuing, to shed blockers, and wrap up with both arms!

I feel like our front 7 are smaller and fast which is great for rushing to a QB or getting a hand on the runner, but aren't strong enough to break completely free and bring down the strong runners. Instead we try these arm reach attempts at tackle which most ball carriers just push sway. This is why the strong/fast RBs and TE's eat us up.

Yes, Talib will help on the second level, but seriously think this is 80% related to our LBs in ability to shed blocks or identify the gaps to close

 

[Corbin]

Barron is done!

What is done? as in how?

Croc Dundee done?

The Turkey is done done?

Or Dun Dada Done?

 

[majrleaged]

With a lot of teams going in 13 personnel over 12 on offense, a lot more defenses are trying to counter that with 4-2-5 or 3-3-5 nickel packages. I believe our run defense woes comes from our DBs' issues on open field tackling. Gotta wrap up and stop giving opposing runners behind the LOS over 4 ypc

I kind of think it has more to do with the Front 7. The runner doesn't need to be tackled by the DB if the front 7 do their job.

 

[LARAMSinFeb.]

I think everybody will be shocked at how this D does against the Chiefs this week. Just a "homer" feeling I've got.

I felt like the Seattle game was the time for the D to score a big shut down. Nope.

 

[Adi]

On paper comparable to any defense over the last 10 years

Personally I dont think our players fit Wade's scheme . That said I think with talib coming back and more time to make adjustments, they will be just fine . Hopefully talent trumps all because we have enough of it to be ELITE.