Okay, so what needs to be ‘fixed’ for 2020?

[Zaphod]

So many contracts you can’t even release the player for immediate cap relief, like Cooks and Gurley.

We really only have one player who could fetch a return on some of those lost first round picks.

I say take a chance, make that trade, simplify the defensive front (and go cheaper) with a true 3-4. We don’t need to go back to a 4-3 because we’re already there in this hybrid system most of the time.

Prioritize the offensive line! We need a center who can get push in the rushing attack. Allen isn’t it, at least not this year.

We also keep drafting these tackle projects and playing them at guard, and the interior suffers for it.

 

[FrantikRam]

I know as fans we want to know what can be fixed.

And certainly the owner/coaches/players too.

But at the end of the day, we really just had some bad luck this year

I told you last year. The defense. You can't keep winning giving up 23 ppg on defense. It's not tenable. a team that gives up that many points a game is at best an 8-8 team. The offense isn't the problem. The average score in an NFL game since the merger is right around 24 points. So in order to be on the winning side, you have to stop the other team from scoring 24 points. Teams that give up more are generally below .500, teams that give up less are generally better than .500. Of course offense matters, but this year isn't on the offense, it's on the defense. I'll give you a good example of two teams. Patriots and Packers. Two teams that have been winning the last 20 years. One better than the other. Both with top QB during that time.

PPG	Defense	Offense	Aver wins
Packers	21.3	25.3	9.7
Patriots	18.6	28.6	12.2

As you can see, the offense is good, but a good defense is necessary as well. Do this with any team, and you will see, the closer you get to 24 ppg on defense the closer you get to being 8-8.

DVOA, which takes into account opponent strength and is a much better metric for measuring offense and defense, ranks the Rams defense 8th and offense 17th.

PPG is a fine way of looking at the TEAM as a whole, and certainly your Packers/Patriots argument falls into line with this - they've always been better coached and generally have fewer turnovers. The game Saturday against the Niners is a good case study too - we allowed a long kick return that gave them 3 points and had a pick 6. In all this season, the Rams have allowed 4 defensive TDs, and several more TD "drives" off of short fields (one against the Niners the first time we played them to start the 2nd half comes to mind), and several times a team got a turnover in FG range and our defense gets a stop, but the team still scores.

Next up on the list of blame would be the special teams unit - had GZ made kicks against the Seahawks, Steelers and Niners, the Rams could be 11-4 right now - and adding these kicks as made would take GZ from a horrific 23/31 to barely NFL average 26/31 - so not all that unrealistic.

Don't get me wrong - the defense was awful against the Bucs, Ravens and Cowboys this year. But in most of our other games, they were the better unit by a good margin.

Goff turning the ball over is really what has undone the Rams this year more than anything.

 

[Rams43]

I know as fans we want to know what can be fixed.

And certainly the owner/coaches/players too.

But at the end of the day, we really just had some bad luck this year




DVOA, which takes into account opponent strength and is a much better metric for measuring offense and defense, ranks the Rams defense 8th and offense 17th.

PPG is a fine way of looking at the TEAM as a whole, and certainly your Packers/Patriots argument falls into line with this - they've always been better coached and generally have fewer turnovers. The game Saturday against the Niners is a good case study too - we allowed a long kick return that gave them 3 points and had a pick 6. In all this season, the Rams have allowed 4 defensive TDs, and several more TD "drives" off of short fields (one against the Niners the first time we played them to start the 2nd half comes to mind), and several times a team got a turnover in FG range and our defense gets a stop, but the team still scores.

Next up on the list of blame would be the special teams unit - had GZ made kicks against the Seahawks, Steelers and Niners, the Rams could be 11-4 right now - and adding these kicks as made would take GZ from a horrific 23/31 to barely NFL average 26/31 - so not all that unrealistic.

Don't get me wrong - the defense was awful against the Bucs, Ravens and Cowboys this year. But in most of our other games, they were the better unit by a good margin.

Goff turning the ball over is really what has undone the Rams this year more than anything.

Well, inconsistency was the Ram problem this year, as McVay said himself.

We never knew which Ram O, D, or ST was gonna show up each week. It was maddening to lose to teams that we should have mopped the floor with.

Arrrrrgh!

 

[FrantikRam]

Well, inconsistency was the Ram problem this year, as McVay said himself.

We never knew which Ram O, D, or ST was gonna show up each week. It was maddening to lose to teams that we should have mopped the floor with.

Arrrrrgh!

We didn't lose to any team we "should have mopped the floor with".

If you accept that Goff, Gurley and the OL were below average this year, that puts us on the same level as the Seahawks, Bucs, Steelers, Cowboys and a notch below the Ravens and Niners.

You can certainly say we shouldn't have gotten destroyed the Ravens or Cowboys - but the rest of the losses were close. We had the ball down by one possession to the Bucs and Steelers, lost late to the Niners and Seahawks, and the first Niner game, while our offense was atrocious, was just two plays away from being a different game.

I think we as fans think this season should have gone differently based on Goff, Gurley and the OL from last year. The reality is that combination went from the best last year to possibly the worst in the NFL this year. Our special teams were also among the worst in the NFL this year if you look at the total body of work.

This last Niner game was the epitome of this entire season for the Rams:

Offense gave them 7 points
Special teams (bad kick coverage) gave them 3 points
Special teams left 3 points on the field (missed FG)

That's 13 points in a 3 point loss - and yet fans, myself included, were livid about the defense giving up two 3rd and 16s - but that game was lost by Goff and the special teams unit, not our defense. While Goff mostly played well, you cannot give up a defensive TD - winning % in the NFL skyrockets when that occurs and it completely change the momentum.

Even your comment is a little disingenuous - it's true that defense wasn't great every week, but it was more consistent than both the offense and special teams this year.

 

[So Ram]

1. Defensive Coordinator/Defensive Staff....Why does every defensive back looked confused, Peters, Ramsey, Weddle I don't get it. Obviously a new DC although I feel for Wade because if the Rams scored any points in the Super Bowl, they would have won. Not sure about the rest of the defensive staff also...DB Coach Aubrey Pleasant seems to have excellent credentials, but CB's are confused along with Safety Coach Ejiro Evero as Taylor Rapp ran into CB Williams against the Cowboys and totally blew the coverage on the Sanders completion in San Francisco...They might make changes across the board...Dan Quinn (although he could stay in Atlanta) Kris Richard as they will be making changes in Dallas, but I don't expect the hire to be internal.
2. Offensive Assistants....Sean McVay, will not give up the play calling IMO, so not sure if that gets somebody like Jay Gruden on board, but what I could see is hiring Bill Callahan as Offensive Coordinator and returning OL Coach Aaron Kromer to the OL only and parting ways with Shane Waldron who I have never been a huge fan of anyway. A new QB Coach will need to be hired and that could come from multiple people, but I expect, Waldron & Jedd Fisch to be gone too. RB Skip Hicks might be shown the door as well, as he might be too close to TGIII.
3. Personnel....I don't expect Aaron Donald to be dealt, but many others could and look for a change in philosophy as I believe one of the main reasons they are parting ways with Wade is he really wanted Peters, Talib & then Ramsey costing multiple picks. Not sure if the Rams go to a 4-3 because they have outside linebackers, but we will see. I look for Snead again to wheel & deal to gain extra picks with hope for improvement in the offensive line and a running back combination that McVay has confidence in, also draft a QB that can run an RPO somebody like Taysom Hill of New Orleans, @jrry32 communicated QB Tyler Huntley of Utah in his latest mock draft, I like that pick.

Again many changes loom on the horizon and the off season under the McVay/Snead regime has never been dull, but let's hope theses changes make the Rams better and That Joe Barry continues in his current role because if McVay promotes Barry, he'll be to Sean McVay what Larry Marmie was to Mike Martz.

1. yeah - that was a killer , but think The DB’s have been okay ?? At least since RAMsey has been here.
2. Right on !! Waldron reminds me of the Fisher hires. Changing of OC’s though have been hard to keep continuity.
—Then again Jared Goff likes Waldron & I think will still be on the staff !!
3. Will be interesting to see what changes are going to be made !!! I think we will know pretty fast. Mcvay & Wade was a good duo , but change is needed . Mcvay needs to grow with the times !! Wade was a good mentor for the first couple years. Demoff wanted Mcvay to have that experienced guy when he was hired.

- cheers

 

[So Ram]

Well, inconsistency was the Ram problem this year, as McVay said himself.

We never knew which Ram O, D, or ST was gonna show up each week. It was maddening to lose to teams that we should have mopped the floor with.

Arrrrrgh!

That said , any given Sunday.
Look back at last season & The Rams got lucky the Cards fell in there favor. Add the division was a lot weaker !! This season the NFC West was tough !! The Rams actually had an easy schedule & lesson to beat up Steelers team stunk.

Greg the leg has been key to The Rams success & failures. He cost me $15,000 against the 9ers when Fisher lost the game & sitting Gurley who played in the pro bowl. Pissed me off about that. Sit the last game, but play in the Pro Bowl ???

The Rams have to part with The Leg !! Maybe even LS Jake Mcquade ?? Just to change things up & maybe add a little salary cap space ??? Let’s see what Snead & Fosel can come up with ???

 

[So Ram]

We didn't lose to any team we "should have mopped the floor with".

If you accept that Goff, Gurley and the OL were below average this year, that puts us on the same level as the Seahawks, Bucs, Steelers, Cowboys and a notch below the Ravens and Niners.

You can certainly say we shouldn't have gotten destroyed the Ravens or Cowboys - but the rest of the losses were close. We had the ball down by one possession to the Bucs and Steelers, lost late to the Niners and Seahawks, and the first Niner game, while our offense was atrocious, was just two plays away from being a different game.

I think we as fans think this season should have gone differently based on Goff, Gurley and the OL from last year. The reality is that combination went from the best last year to possibly the worst in the NFL this year. Our special teams were also among the worst in the NFL this year if you look at the total body of work.

This last Niner game was the epitome of this entire season for the Rams:

Offense gave them 7 points
Special teams (bad kick coverage) gave them 3 points
Special teams left 3 points on the field (missed FG)

That's 13 points in a 3 point loss - and yet fans, myself included, were livid about the defense giving up two 3rd and 16s - but that game was lost by Goff and the special teams unit, not our defense. While Goff mostly played well, you cannot give up a defensive TD - winning % in the NFL skyrockets when that occurs and it completely change the momentum.

Even your comment is a little disingenuous - it's true that defense wasn't great every week, but it was more consistent than both the offense and special teams this year.

Well - I actually really love the growth of the offense this season. Looking forward with a full offseason & this offense should soar !!
Special teams need a change. At what point do The Rams get rid of Hekker ??
Jake & The Leg should be gone now . Excellent Ram careers, time to move on though.
The defense will have a lot of changes , especially if The Rams change D’C’s ??
I like the young DB’s though, so what might have been The Rams weakness could turn it there strength by competition.

 

[FrantikRam]

I think the most important thing for this team moving forward is for McVay to hire a "Wade Philips" of the offense type - whether he wants them to be named OC, run game coordinator, pass game coordinator - I don't care - but he needs someone with more experience than him in his ear from time to time. Jay Gruden would be perfect for this.

I love McVay's offensive acumen, but in the NFL, all coaches eventually hit a wall and need to adapt. Best way for that is another perspective (preferably one with proven success).

 

[RamDino]

Goff turning the ball over is really what has undone the Rams this year more than anything.

I'm no expert, and I'm not an apologist for Goff either, but giving up TWO 3rd and 16's is not Goff's fault. He didn't give up 55 against the Bucs either, although there were many games where Goff had to throw "a lot" to keep the Rams in the game. When you throw that much, with a porous O-line, and can't run the ball, you are going to get interceptions and QB fumbles. I still say the entire team was inconsistent more than anything, with the exception of Aaron Donald. Get the running game back next year, whether it's the O-line's fault or Gurley or the play calling, and everything else will be fine.

 

[Adi]

1. OL needs more talent .
I love whit and he did alot for this team but Goff needs a premier LT . I know it would be hard and I'm ok with resigning whit but he isnt the same guy he was 3 years ago .

Wtf is up with haventsein ? He just got paid too

2. Gurley showed some promise but honestly he looked just like this before mcvay arrived . Did he also have arthritis then?
I think inconsistent OL play was the major problem with the running game but gurleys manurisms and facial expressions sometimes make me wonder if he is really ok .

3. Goff to me needs to play smarter and not just " better " . He doesn't need to throw for 40tds but he deffinately cannot turn the ball over like he did this season. He threw some really bad balls and it killed the offense.

4. Defense just needs a shot of youth, matthews and weddle make a few good plays but they are usually physically overmatched. They need to be role players, sadly same goes for Brockers .
I like the 3-4 idea but we dont have the edge setting olb that make these defenses work. greenbay changed everything by adding the smiths. I dont see that from Fowler or our small edge rushers. I am willing to watch wade for another season, but the inconsistency was ridiculous this year.
Injuries didnt help, healthy JJ3 would of been huge this year.

That said..still a top 5 team on paper talent wise. Mcvay has shower down the stretch hes willing to make changes . Just a few adjustments needed to be back in the hunt.


Mcvay , show us what you got !

 

[“Turbo set!”]

O-line, O-line, O-line, Whatever it takes.

 

[RamDino]

O-line, O-line, O-line, Whatever it takes.

Agreed. However, most of our core players are already here, as the Rams will have limited options... resign Whit, draft a rookie, maybe sign a free agent?

 

[Rams43]

We didn't lose to any team we "should have mopped the floor with".

If you accept that Goff, Gurley and the OL were below average this year, that puts us on the same level as the Seahawks, Bucs, Steelers, Cowboys and a notch below the Ravens and Niners.

You can certainly say we shouldn't have gotten destroyed the Ravens or Cowboys - but the rest of the losses were close. We had the ball down by one possession to the Bucs and Steelers, lost late to the Niners and Seahawks, and the first Niner game, while our offense was atrocious, was just two plays away from being a different game.

I think we as fans think this season should have gone differently based on Goff, Gurley and the OL from last year. The reality is that combination went from the best last year to possibly the worst in the NFL this year. Our special teams were also among the worst in the NFL this year if you look at the total body of work.

This last Niner game was the epitome of this entire season for the Rams:

Offense gave them 7 points
Special teams (bad kick coverage) gave them 3 points
Special teams left 3 points on the field (missed FG)

That's 13 points in a 3 point loss - and yet fans, myself included, were livid about the defense giving up two 3rd and 16s - but that game was lost by Goff and the special teams unit, not our defense. While Goff mostly played well, you cannot give up a defensive TD - winning % in the NFL skyrockets when that occurs and it completely change the momentum.

Even your comment is a little disingenuous - it's true that defense wasn't great every week, but it was more consistent than both the offense and special teams this year.

There were 4 games lost by the Rams that never should have been losses, Frantik, at least IMO.

NFL.com | Official Site of the National Football League

The official source for NFL news, video highlights, fantasy football, game-day coverage, schedules, stats, scores and more.

www.nfl.com

Bucs
Seahawks (1st game)
Steelers
Cowboys

Rams were the better team in all 4 matchups imho. In all 4 games the Rams were outplayed and outcoached.

Win even one of those games and we’re probably in the playoffs. Win any 2 and we’re definitely in.

 

[Riverumbbq]

Corbetter won't work out --too light/lacks strength. Great backup. Evans and Edwards at guards, Hav back in 2018 form at RT will be fine. Can't put too many new parts together....something old, something new and some black and blue in the run blocking!

Edwards rooted out quite a few D-lineman, or least had stand stills with them while th RB ran by. One offeseason in the weight room and Edwards will be great.

At 6'4", 306lbs, Corbett could be an ideal size for Center.

Prior to Allen going down, Edwards was getting his first rookie snaps at LG and looking pretty sharp following Noteboom's injury.
After Allen went down, Blythe moved from RG over to Center, Edwards moved over to RG and Corbett came in at LG.

Just say'in, ... perhaps Edwards' better position is at LG rather than RG, ... but if Evans can't nail down the RT job, Edwards & Evans competing at LG might make for a great camp battle.

Brewer looked the best at RG during pre-season, and has filled in nicely at OT during the regular season when called upon.

Those first few games when Havenstein was out and replaced by Evans, fans here nearly forgot about Havenstein supposedly owning the RT position.

Corbett, Shelton & Trewyn were all signed well after the season had begun and didn't have an opportunity to learn our system during camp.

No one knows when Noteboom will be ready, whether it be prior to opening day or mid-season 2020, but if Whitworth returns for a final season, Noteboom may be our best answer at RT if Havenstein struggles.

All i'm saying is that our very young new offensive linemen shouldn't be dismissed too quickly, their second year in our system should show big improvement, and the competition for starting jobs will be fierce. I don't believe it's too far-fetched an idea to imagine next years starting OL as already being on our roster. jmo.

 

[Ramstien]

I would like to say a return to a more physical type of play with more ground and pound but I don't know if that will happen with McVay, at the helm.

 

[FrantikRam]

There were 4 games lost by the Rams that never should have been losses, Frantik, at least IMO.

NFL.com | Official Site of the National Football League

The official source for NFL news, video highlights, fantasy football, game-day coverage, schedules, stats, scores and more.

www.nfl.com

Bucs
Seahawks (1st game)
Steelers
Cowboys

Rams were the better team in all 4 matchups imho. In all 4 games the Rams were outplayed and outcoached.

Win even one of those games and we’re probably in the playoffs. Win any 2 and we’re definitely in.

If you mean more talented team, then that's true for every team we faced - including the Niners.

In DVOA, Cowboys are 7, Seahawks 8, Rams 10, Bucs 14, Steelers 18

In point differential we're all clustered similarly, with the Rams in between again.

Seahawks are 11-4, Rams 8-7, Steelers 8-7, Bucs 7-8, Cowboys 7-8



By DVOA, we're worse than both Dallas and Seattle. Point differential we're worse than Dallas. By record we're worse than Seattle, tied with Pittsburgh and one game ahead of Bucs and Cowboys.

When you look at the totality of this, we are not definitively better than these teams this year. If you're thinking about Jared Goff as a good QB and this OL as a good OL, then I can see the confusion. But you have to realize that Goff and this OL are the worst combination in the entire NFL - worse than the Dolphins - this season. We can say that they should have played better this year - but when you accept that they were terrible, it brings the Rams right down to those teams' levels.

 

[Seth Griffith]

From the simple armchair quarterback position, If I was Snead I would propose this off season plan:

1. Look at who can be restructured, have the conversations, be real about the situation. In know it's a business for both sides, but my understanding is that we can get creative here.

2. Coaching...Not sure what to make of some of the lapses on defense, when two defenders are looking at each other and they are stunned that there was a lapse in coverage and they both shrug at each other. What gives?! Also on the offensive side of the ball, let's get a legit O coordinator and QB coach...I challenge anyone to change my mind thart Goff needs a good QB coach. I think the O Line is more about execution than the coaching, but I do acknowledge that it's a mess and needs most of our FA and draft attention.

3. Smart Free Agency and trades. No more trading draft picks unless they are 6 and 7 round picks. In FA, target the best OL we can. I honestly think that if we beef up the OL it makes the whole team better. Not rocket science that our D needs some help in the form of sustained drives and less three and outs. How many times was our OL overmatched and Goff was rolling out to gain extra time before getting crushed?

 

[FrantikRam]

I'm no expert, and I'm not an apologist for Goff either, but giving up TWO 3rd and 16's is not Goff's fault. He didn't give up 55 against the Bucs either, although there were many games where Goff had to throw "a lot" to keep the Rams in the game. When you throw that much, with a porous O-line, and can't run the ball, you are going to get interceptions and QB fumbles. I still say the entire team was inconsistent more than anything, with the exception of Aaron Donald. Get the running game back next year, whether it's the O-line's fault or Gurley or the play calling, and everything else will be fine.

The defense had a few bad games. Goff turned the ball over too often all season long.

That is a good example: yes, the defense gave up two 3rd and 16s - but you cannot, under any circumstances, throw a pick 6. Especially one as bad as that. It was a game changing play.

That loss was more on special teams and Goff than the defense.

 

[Raptorman]

I know as fans we want to know what can be fixed.

And certainly the owner/coaches/players too.

But at the end of the day, we really just had some bad luck this year




DVOA, which takes into account opponent strength and is a much better metric for measuring offense and defense, ranks the Rams defense 8th and offense 17th.

PPG is a fine way of looking at the TEAM as a whole, and certainly your Packers/Patriots argument falls into line with this - they've always been better coached and generally have fewer turnovers. The game Saturday against the Niners is a good case study too - we allowed a long kick return that gave them 3 points and had a pick 6. In all this season, the Rams have allowed 4 defensive TDs, and several more TD "drives" off of short fields (one against the Niners the first time we played them to start the 2nd half comes to mind), and several times a team got a turnover in FG range and our defense gets a stop, but the team still scores.

Next up on the list of blame would be the special teams unit - had GZ made kicks against the Seahawks, Steelers and Niners, the Rams could be 11-4 right now - and adding these kicks as made would take GZ from a horrific 23/31 to barely NFL average 26/31 - so not all that unrealistic.

Don't get me wrong - the defense was awful against the Bucs, Ravens and Cowboys this year. But in most of our other games, they were the better unit by a good margin.

Goff turning the ball over is really what has undone the Rams this year more than anything.

Goff turning the ball over may have cost 3 games at most. More likely 2. After looking at his Turnovers the number just doesn't back up that statement. Not the number of losses the Rams had.

 

[FrantikRam]

Goff turning the ball over may have cost 3 games at most. More likely 2. After looking at his Turnovers the number just doesn't back up that statement. Not the number of losses the Rams had.

Have you actually watched Rams games this year though?

Here is how I see the Rams losses this year with the most responsible parties:

Bucs - defense and OL/Goff, tied - yes, the defense was unbelievably bad. But Goff turned the ball over 4 times, partially because the OL was awful

Seahawks - GZ and defense tied - should have been a win, but the defense did surrender a 4th quarter lead

Niners - OL/Goff - defense played well, OL got owned, Goff missed some open passes

Steelers - OL/Goff - offense was awful, defense scored 9 points by themselves and played outstanding

Ravens - the whole team

Cowboys - defense - Goff wasn't great either, but the defense couldn't stop Dallas

Niners - Special teams/Goff, tied - kick return, missed FG, pick 6 - yes, the defense gave up two 3rd and 16s, but it never should have gotten to that point. Overall the defense played well in this game



So my final tally is:

Goff - 4
OL - 3
Defense - 3

And then a smattering of the rest. Zuerlein is next up on my list of responsible parties for this season too.

McVay also gets blame for the three games where the team didn't really show up.