Not impressed with the hands up BS displayed by the Rams WRs

[-X-]

Why is it monumentally stupid? It has brought a lot of attention to their cause - aren't the Rams players entitled to expressing their position without it being labelled "stupid"

And how specifically is it "stupid" - is it just you don't agree?

It's stupid because it brings unwanted attention to a team that's struggling to establish a stronghold in its own community (e.g., relocation talk). There populous of St Louis isn't 100% behind the receivers' cause, so it's stupid to alienate anyone. Especially the local government. I didn't say whether I agreed or disagreed with the ruling. There's just a time and place for exercising your freedom of speech rights, and an NFL stage isn't one of them. Do you think the NFL would sanction this if it was brought to them first?

 

[-X-]

Some hope, warmth and love in the midst of all this chaos:

http://video.foxnews.com/v/39172484...ging-police-officer-goes-viral/#sp=show-clips

That's what this situation calls for. Not protests that only serve to further the community's divide.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

It's stupid because it brings unwanted attention to a team that's struggling to establish a stronghold in its own community (e.g., relocation talk). There populous of St Louis isn't 100% behind the receiver's cause, so it's stupid to alienate anyone. Especially the local government. I didn't say whether I agreed or disagreed with the ruling. There's just a time and place for exercising your freedom of speech rights, and an NFL stage isn't one of them. Do you think the NFL would sanction this if it was brought to them first?

Only if it is sanctioned then from the NFL is it the right time and place then - if it is sanctioned it's okay, like when the NFL honors the death of an owner having his initials on the back of a helmet etc... or breast cancer awareness, all that is okay

but since this was unsanctioned act by our receiving corps it somehow puts the team on tenuous ground and is stupid act? Not sure i agree. This was actually the best time and place for the Rams players to express themselves. Where else? In a sports bar? at the Nordstroms? not getting how a national stage isn't the best forum for your political expression - in fact I'd argue it is the smartest place (not the stupidest)

We smoked the Raiders 52-0 and there is no mention at all on the NFL site about our victory - so maybe some unwanted attention whether it be from drafting Sam to supporting the Mike Brown cause is not necessarily something this team is looking to avoid

 

[-X-]

Only if it is sanctioned then from the NFL is it the right time and place then - if it is sanctioned it's okay, like when the NFL honors the death of an owner having his initials on the back of a helmet etc... or breast cancer awareness, all that is okay

but since this was unsanctioned act by our receiving corps it somehow puts the team on tenuous ground and is stupid act? Not sure i agree. This was actually the best time and place for the Rams players to express themselves. Where else? In a sports bar? at the Nordstroms? not getting how a national stage isn't the best forum for your political expression - in fact I'd argue it is the smartest place (not the stupidest)

We smoked the Raiders 52-0 and there is no mention at all on the NFL site about our victory - so maybe some unwanted attention whether it be from drafting Sam to supporting the Mike Brown cause is not necessarily something this team is looking to avoid

That's kind of a red herring, dude. I didn't say *because* it wasn't sanctioned, it was stupid. I merely asked you if you thought the NFL would approve of this - which would subsequently prove my point that it was the wrong time and place for such a demonstration. I think I laid out fairly well why I thought it was stupid; and to reiterate, it's because alienating a portion of your own community (and local government) is *stupid* when the future of the Organization IN that community is more or less predicated on the support OF the community and local government. And a National stage (in this case their employer's venue) *is* a stupid place to do it. Would you be okay with this setting a precedent? And now any time a player or player(s) want to express their political beliefs, they should just go ahead and use the NFL to do it? That's a never-ending list of things that could be protested, and the NFL will certainly not stand for being the catalyst for individual expression. And rightfully so.

As per your last paragraph, I don't think - in this case - that the "any publicity is good publicity" meme is applicable.

 

[BonifayRam]

Great to live in America where we have such freedoms.

On the other hand on a more personal note ....I have been a state law enforcement official since 1980 & I am still a certified law enforcement officer .....what I observed before the Rams game on national TV ....did upset me & I did not like it at all. I will always be upset by the those actions by those five Ram players. Left a very nasty taste in my mouth.

I do not feel this incident is a positive to help the the greater St Louis Community heal.

 

[Boffo97]

I have no problems with what they did. Not one problem... Everyone is treating this as if this is just one isolated incident. The hands up gesture isn't strictly for Mike Brown anymore, it's obviously a representation of a much wider issue, even if that is where the gesture originally started.

This is bigger than just one shooting now. This sort of stuff has been happening in the US far too often. Obviously our receivers feel enough is enough and things have to change, regardless of how the Brown shooting occurred, so they made a stand.

Again, I have no problems with this at all


Obviously I understand everyone has different opinions... just giving my 2 cents

The problem is that the gesture very obviously started in relation to Mike Brown... and in his specific case, it was based on an utter falsehood.

I agree there is a larger problem, but using anything related to Brown actually discredits ones own cause, and thus... inappropriate.

 

[Boffo97]

Many won't like this, but here it is:

These players have every right to question the actions of the police.
They have every right to disagree with the grand jury.
They have every right to acknowledge the situation and show support to the community that has been under fire.

I've noticed a disgusting and yet not surprising trend: anyone supporting the protesters have been demonized as "thugs" and rioters, grouped in with the worst.
That's absolute bull crap.
Way to show your true colors.

A. The players absolutely have the right to express whatever opinion they want. It's just inappropriate to do so while wearing the Rams uniform while on the job at a Rams game. It ties the Rams to that opinion. And said opinion is based on a falsehood.

B. I haven't seen anyone associated with the rioters or called thugs just for disagreeing with the official conclusions. At least not here.

C. Your last quoted line there comes close to asserting that those who disagree with you are racists.

I'll state for the record that I'm not a racist. If the facts supported the conclusion that Officer Wilson shot Mike Brown while he was attempting to surrender, I'd want justice. Not because a white man murdered a black man, but because a human being murdered another human being. The facts don't support that, and I have to wonder how many who question those facts would still do so if it wasn't a white man shooting a black man.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

That's kind of a red herring, dude. I didn't say *because* it wasn't sanctioned, it was stupid. I merely asked you if you thought the NFL would approve of this - which would subsequently prove my point that it was the wrong time and place for such a demonstration. I think I laid out fairly well why I thought it was stupid; and to reiterate, it's because alienating a portion of your own community (and local government) is *stupid* when the future of the Organization IN that community is more or less predicated on the support OF the community and local government. And a National stage (in this case their employer's venue) *is* a stupid place to do it. Would you be okay with this setting a precedent? And now any time a player or player(s) want to express their political beliefs, they should just go ahead and use the NFL to do it? That's a never-ending list of things that could be protested, and the NFL will certainly not stand for being the catalyst for individual expression. And rightfully so.

As per your last paragraph, I don't think - in this case - that the "any publicity is good publicity" meme is applicable.

Well I disagree
Who gives a shit about what the NFL condones?
You seem to be taking the position of the NFL to argue that what the Rams players did was stupid and it's just not - you're trying to open a can of worms with your line about "the never ending list of protests" - I'm not saying that / but if a player on Sunday decides to protest someone winning Plinko on the price is right, well that is definitely to be considered a STUPID protest.

But in the case of the Rams and this specific issue it is the farthest thing from stupid,

By your argument for whether or not the NFL would sanction the Rams celebration then you must have been 100% behind the penalty for excessive celebration on Mason after his record setting TD? The NFL will not stand for excessive celebration

Whether the NFL approves the gesture or not has ZERO to do with whether or not the gesture is to be considers stupid or not in public opinion. You say it's stupid cause it will somehow cosmically impact the team's standing in your generalized concept of community with local government - don't believe it has any impact whatsoever - I don't buy it at all / Kroenke owns the team and the call is down to him and nobody else

PS
And don't know what a "meme" is and sure as fuck don't want to know -- but the idea behind my last paragraph was only to make clear this organization is t shying away from alternative publicity since our team is so irrelevant to the NFL at this point when we can't get any coverage for the ass whooping laid in the Shroeders

 

[Stranger]

No, dude, just no. Dorian Johnson has been exposed as a liar so many times and in so many ways.

What about this other witnesses?
http://www.theroot.com/articles/cul...ess_accounts_of_michael_brown_s_shooting.html

 

[Stranger]

Well I disagree
Who gives a crap about what the NFL condones?
You seem to be taking the position of the NFL to argue that what the Rams players did was stupid and it's just not - you're trying to open a can of worms with your line about "the never ending list of protests" - I'm not saying that / but if a player on Sunday decides to protest someone winning Plinko on the price is right, well that is definitely to be considered a STUPID protest.

But in the case of the Rams and this specific issue it is the farthest thing from stupid,

By your argument for whether or not the NFL would sanction the Rams celebration then you must have been 100% behind the penalty for excessive celebration on Mason after his record setting TD? The NFL will not stand for excessive celebration

Whether the NFL approves the gesture or not has ZERO to do with whether or not the gesture is to be considers stupid or not in public opinion. You say it's stupid cause it will somehow cosmically impact the team's standing in your generalized concept of community with local government - don't believe it has any impact whatsoever - I don't buy it at all / Kroenke owns the team and the call is down to him and nobody else

PS
And don't know what a "meme" is and sure as freak don't want to know -- but the idea behind my last paragraph was only to make clear this organization is t shying away from alternative publicity since our team is so irrelevant to the NFL at this point when we can't get any coverage for the ass whooping laid in the Shroeders

My Question is this... will the NFL fine the Rams WR's? Just think what a shit storm that will create? This is a PR nightmare for Goodhell... as he loses fan support if he doesn't fine the players and also loses fan support if he does fine them. Goodhell's hatred for the Rams organization just went up 10-fold.

 

[-X-]

Well I disagree
Who gives a crap about what the NFL condones?
You seem to be taking the position of the NFL to argue that what the Rams players did was stupid and it's just not - you're trying to open a can of worms with your line about "the never ending lost of protests" - I'm not saying that / but if someone protest someone winning Plinko on the price is right is definitely consider that a STUPID protest. But in the case of the Rams and this specific issue it is the farthest thing from stupid,

By your argument you were 100% behind the penalty for excessive celebration on Mason after his record setting TD? The NFL will not stand for excessive celebration

Whether the NFL approves the gesture or not has ZERO to do with whether or not the gesture is to be considers stupid or not in public opinion. You say it's stupid cause it will somehow cosmically impact the team's standing in your generalized concept of community with local government - don't believe it has any impact whatsoever - I don't buy it at all / Kroenke owns the team and the call is down to him and nobody else

PS
And don't know what a "meme" is and sure as freak don't want to know -- but the idea behind my last paragraph was only to make clear this organization is t shying away from alternative publicity since our team is so irrelevant to the NFL at this point when we can't get any coverage for the ass whooping laid in the Shroeders

You're not understanding what I'm saying, and are instead getting upset, so I think it's you who's emotionally invested in this. I'm not. You're also drawing a lot of weird parallels that only serve to detract from my point about the NFL not being a shared bully pulpit or the 'demonstration' offered by the receivers having a negative impact on the community's support of the sports franchise.

So .... agree to disagree from here on out.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

You're not understanding what I'm saying, and are instead getting upset, so I think it's you who's emotionally invested in this. I'm not. You're also drawing a lot of weird parallels that only serve to detract from my point about the NFL not being a shared bully pulpit or the 'demonstration' offered by the receivers having a negative impact on the community's support of the sports franchise.

So .... agree to disagree from here on out.

I'm not angry at all, I was actually enjoying our little debate

More smiley faces maybe?


You must be a lawyer cause they always pull the rip cord when their arguments are exposed

 

[-X-]

My Question is this... will the NFL fine the Rams WR's? Just think what a crap storm that will create? This is a PR nightmare for Goodhell... as he loses fan support if he doesn't fine the players and also loses fan support if he does fine them. Goodhell's hatred for the Rams organization just went up 10-fold.

Yep. It's a pickle. And more or less the reason I thought the players didn't think this through (not gonna say it was stupid, since that seems to be a sensitive word).

 

[Warner4Prez]

Mort is reporting that neither the NFL nor the Rams will be fining the players involved.

 

[Boffo97]

My Question is this... will the NFL fine the Rams WR's? Just think what a crap storm that will create? This is a PR nightmare for Goodhell... as he loses fan support if he doesn't fine the players and also loses fan support if he does fine them. Goodhell's hatred for the Rams organization just went up 10-fold.

It's also put the players into a no-win situation. Britt has asserted that the gesture was not meant to take sides on the specific incident in Ferguson. For obvious reasons, it's been interpreted as such, and thus is pretty offensive to law enforcement. To them, continued protest seems to be saying that if someone of color attacks you, you might as well let them kill you since your life will be ruined if you defend yourself.

So if the players apologize or if they don't someone's mad at them.

 

[-X-]

I'm not angry at all, I was actually enjoying our little debate

More smiley faces maybe?

Oh, okay. Good. I just didn't want to offend you. I'll retract the word "stupid" since that seems to be your main point of contention in my little diatribe there. Let me ask you this in bullet point format, and we can see where we're separated.

Was it smart to use the NFL (the players' employer) as a means to express their political beliefs?

• If yes, then would you be okay if the entire Bengals team walked out with signs that said "KILL ISIS!"?

Do you think this - at all - impacts the community's support of the team?

• If yes, is that a good or bad thing?

 

[Prime Time]

This whole incident reminds me of the 1968 Olympics Black Power salute which was even more controversial at the time.

The 1968 Olympics Black Power salute was an act of protest by the African-American athletes Tommie Smith and John Carlos during their medal ceremony at the 1968 Summer Olympics in the Olympic Stadium in Mexico City. As they turned to face their flags and hear the American national anthem (The Star-Spangled Banner), they each raised a black-gloved fist and kept them raised until the anthem had finished. Smith, Carlos and Australian silver medalist Peter Norman all wore human rights badges on their jackets.

In his autobiography, Silent Gesture, Tommie Smith stated that the gesture was not a "Black Power" salute, but a "human rights salute". The event is regarded as one of the most overtly political statements in the history of the modern Olympic Games.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics_Black_Power_salute

You must be a lawyer cause they always pull the rip cord when their arguments are exposed

You can freely express your opinions and don't have to kiss anyone's ass but be a bit more respectful. -X- is the founder of ROD and is being quite cordial with you.

 

[Athos]

IMHO, people would still be bitching about the player's opinions, even if they showed their support OUTSIDE of arena of football. I strongly believe that.

And I strongly believe trying to censor the beliefs of players and how they express them, sends you down a slippery slope.

 

[Boffo97]

IMHO, people would still be bitching about the player's opinions, even if they showed their support OUTSIDE of arena of football. I strongly believe that.

And I strongly believe trying to censor the beliefs of players and how they express them, sends you down a slippery slope.

Not me. Had, say, Kenny Britt been seen doing the gesture outside of the Dome and not in uniform, I'd think he really needs to learn the facts of this case, but it wouldn't go further than that.

The issue here is that they did in Rams uniforms in the Dome on Gameday. It drags the Rams into their opinion.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

Oh, okay. Good. I just didn't want to offend you. I'll retract the word "stupid" since that seems to be your main point of contention in my little diatribe there. Let me ask you this in bullet point format, and we can see where we're separated.

Was it smart to use the NFL (the players' employer) as a means to express their political beliefs?

• If yes, then would you be okay if the entire Bengals team walked out with signs that said "KILL ISIS!"?

Do you think this - at all - impacts the community's support of the team?

• If yes, is that a good or bad thing?

1 - I think it was smart to use the NFL as a means to express their beliefs

- and if the Bengals wanted to protest ISIS it would be in my opinion silly because it doesn't relate to their community directly - although you could say it does it would be stretching things thin. Hence my example with Plinko and that the protest itself and the social significance of it matters most as to whether it is relevant or mot

2 - no it does not impact the community any more than drafting Michael Sam did in respect to the fact everyone still holds the same opinions as before as they clearly do now in the case of Ferguson / no straight guy suddenly had Sex with a dude cause the Rams drafted Sam, nor will Kroenke think about the WR's protest when deciding on how to play with his billion dollar toy